Skip to main content
Normal View

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sub-Committee on Human Rights) debate -
Wednesday, 31 Jan 2007

Death Penalty: Discussion.

I welcome Mr. Billy Colbert to the meeting to update the sub-committee on the death penalty issue and, in particular, the position of Mr. Roger Collins who has been on death row in Georgia in the United States since 1977. Mr. Colbert was to be accompanied by his colleague, Mr. Aidan O'Leary, but he is unfortunately unable to join us due to family illness. I am advised that Mr. Colbert and Mr. O'Leary recently visited Roger Collins on death row and that their updated report entitled, Roger Collins Only Son, A Life in the Balance, has been circulated to members. I am pleased to welcome Mr. Colbert to the meeting.

As pointed out to Mr. Colbert before, while members of the sub-committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. I invite Mr. Colbert to make a brief presentation following which members may wish to put questions to him.

Mr. Billy Colbert

I am here to speak about Roger Collins who is entering his 30th year of incarceration under death sentence in the state of Georgia, USA. Members will be aware of the historical difficulties of the case such as non-representation of an effective counsel for almost 28 years. During a recent trip to Georgia from 6 to 13 November we engaged two lawyers on behalf of Mr. Collins. We returned to Georgia from 6 to 23 January to meet the lawyers to examine this enormous case which has been left in abeyance for so long. There are many problems associated with inactivity of the case for many years. I am aware that one of the lawyers concerned, Mr. Brian Farrell, a highly eminent qualified international lawyer and practising lawyer in the United States of America has written to the Chairman. Mr. Farrell who has practised in Georgia and Iowa will be in Ireland at the end of April to complete a doctoral thesis in NUI, Galway.

Mr. Farrell along with Mr. Nathan Williams, a lawyer in Savannah, has taken time to visit Roger Collins. Members will note in the documentation circulated this morning a hand-written letter from Roger Collins, subsequently typed for clarity, about a visit he received from Professor Stephen Bright of Atlanta. Members will note from the commentary in Roger Collins's letter that nothing much has changed in regard to Professor Bright or his staff. There is very considerable grievance that a possible deal could have been reached ten years ago. It is the right of any citizen in any circumstances to have his or her case well briefed, a courtesy not afforded to Mr. Collins by Professor Bright. This led to a further ten years of violation of Roger Collins's life under death sentence.

Mr. Collins is quite upbeat at the moment having met the new lawyers. To him this is the beginning of the end. The definition of "the end" will depend on what we can do here today or what can be done legally, diplomatically or politically. Mr. Collins's family and friends were denied the right to speak on his behalf many years ago. I am asking today that the sub-committee look at the plantation justice Mr. Collins received and communicate directly with his lawyers. Senator Mooney asked on several occasions for an update on the position with the lawyers. We explained the difficulties which pertained at the time. At long last, the lawyers are available to communicate with the sub-committee and Chairman directly if so required.

We visited Roger Collins five times this time. I was joined by Aidan O'Leary and we met the two lawyers in Macon, which is 15 or 20 miles from where we were resident. We were staggered to see Roger Collins so animated, lively and hopeful. That was my 35th time to visit him on death row and in those 35 times the gross and horrendous nature of the cruelty of the place has not changed. To execute someone is indefensible but the death row process defies description in language.

I ask the committee to consider the issue of mental retardation. I have circulated a legal profile document, which I ask members of the committee to examine. It presents a very different picture from that presented over the years. The document is marked "Strictly in Confidence" for obvious reasons and is not for publication. It is part of the strategy of a legal team. I have also given the committee a photograph of someone's left arm. This is from a major newspaper dated 21 January 2007 and indicates that the difficulties we are highlighting are also being dealt with in the media.

Research shows the difficulties faced by someone like Roger Collins. Black people know what plantation justice is about, as we once understood imperialist justice. The knowledge that we are examining his case gives him hope and something to look forward to with dignity, whatever the outcome. The lawyers have spoken of the historical and present difficulties and have detailed the absolute destruction of Roger Collins's life.

When approached by the two lawyers, Professor Stephen Bright was helpful, effective and aware that action being taken in Ireland and elsewhere could change the situation for Roger Collins and others. I ask the committee to consider the possibility of visiting Georgia. It would be critically important diplomatically to meet the Governor and the people of influence who may have the final say on the life of Roger Collins, regardless of the legal and diplomatic approach. I also ask the sub-committee to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to raise this matter at the United Nations. I ask the sub-committee to ask the Minister to meet us directly and to make a presentation on our behalf. This is what is required.

At the end of next week a large number of files will be taken from Atlanta to Savannah for examination and analysis and there will begin the unravelling of one of the greatest miscarriages of justice ever known. This is the tenth year Aidan O'Leary and I have been part of this process but this does not compare with the 30 years spent by Roger Collins in prison. His birthday falls on 16 January, the same birthday as Martin Luther King. There is a strange irony in his sharing this day with one of the greatest Georgians of all time.

I ask for a clear written commitment from the Government, expressed through all possible channels, to support Roger Collins. The commitment should include an invitation to Roger Collins to reside and be resocialised in Ireland. This can easily be done by his being banished or exiled, or through whatever legal mechanism is required. He will need all this and more if he is to have the slightest hope of walking out of prison as a free man.

When we addressed this committee in 2003, the Chairman said we had a huge mountain to climb. We have spent ten years climbing this mountain and we hope the committee's efforts today will make one person walk free. That will have made our efforts worthwhile.

Roger Collins is the least culpable of the people involved in an indescribably despicable murder. The victim's family do not want retribution or retaliation. They do not call for closure, which is a euphemism for death. I spoke to Mrs. Lester, who died in 2005, and she categorically said she did not want such action against Roger Collins. I also spoke to the mother of Bill Durham, the leading aggressor in the murder who received a life sentence. She wants no part in any retribution and does not wish to see any further pain inflicted. Mrs. Durham and Mrs. Collins, Roger's mother, were once neighbours but have been separated by an orchestrated effort on behalf of the state. Mr. Styles, the third member of the gang, received an immunity deal. One could describe him as a supergrass. He has since died, but his wife, whom we met and recorded on film, says her husband stated many times that Roger Collins did not kill and was not the leading aggressor in taking Delores Lester's life. This will be quite obvious when the two transcripts are compared.

The first transcript is that of Roger Collins's trial. At the age of 18, Roger Collins was selected because of his youth by a district attorney who was taking her first case and who saw his as an easy case with which to achieve the death penalty. She has since retired because of a medical condition. This was recorded in the local press and media in Warner Robins, Georgia. It was a historic achievement in Georgia for a female district attorney to seek and succeed in getting a death penalty in her first case. It had horrendous consequences for Roger Collins. The price of this result was corrupt and toxic evidence and corrupt analysis. This price was paid by Roger Collins.

All of these facts can now be substantiated in the document compiled by the two lawyers. They indicate that there is a possibility of innocence in the case of Roger Collins. They made two visits to him. The first lasted from 9 a.m. until 11 a.m. and after a two hour break, which is customary for security reasons, they returned from 2 p.m. until 4.30 p.m. They had ample time to analyse the case. They are both active members of the Georgia Bar Association, one is a prosecutor and the other a defender. Therefore, they have a great understanding of what it takes to convict someone and sentence him to such a long term of imprisonment.

I ask the committee to consider again the holding of the World Congress Against the Death Penalty in Ireland. I repeat so that it will not be misunderstood in faraway fields, this is neither an anti-American nor pro-American presentation. I stress this because less than 24 hours after the Seanad passed a motion of condemnation regarding this case, members of Professor Stephen Bright's staff came to intimidate Roger Collins on death row. I know we have advanced technology but I had not realised we were that advanced. This may be a throwback to Mr. Albert Reynolds's time when similar activity was initiated.

I ask the committee to look on Roger Collins as a human being who had a grossly abusive childhood. I do not offer this as an excuse but I ask the sub-committee to look at his case in humanitarian and social terms. This is a man-made problem and it can be solved by men. Lawyers may have ways of saying things which we will not say today. Mr. Brian Farrell is willing to communicate directly with the committee and to meet the sub-committee if that is necessary. He will take any role he is assigned to gain the beginning of justice for Roger Collins, who has been maligned for so long.

As usual, Mr. Colbert's presentation is accurate, pointed and very well assembled. We have all had experience of having prisoners' wrongs righted, in Ireland and elsewhere. The systems, wherever they are, are very difficult to penetrate. It goes without saying that we object to the death penalty.

Mr. Colbert referred to the possibility of Mr. Collins being exiled or banished to Ireland. I am involved in a case, which has engaged the media to a much lesser extent, of a prisoner in a Central American country. Even with the meddling of international lawyers the case is proving extremely difficult. We are using the Strasbourg Convention on repatriation. However, unless the country in which the prisoner is currently held is prepared to submit the case for consideration the system can go nowhere. What is the convention on removing someone who is not an Irish citizen from another country to serve his or her sentence here? I recognise that Mr. Colbert is not seeking discharge. I wonder how the sub-committee could be helpful in that regard. It may offer some kind of opportunity and is certainly worth exploring.

Mr. Colbert

I refer Deputy Carey to the diplomatic resolution and computation in the draft which is the purpose of the report on the background, which is marked strictly confidential. This is seemingly required by the lawyers as a bargaining lever when they assess all the analysis of evidence. They have reviewed the report and strategies and will decide then to approach the district attorney with a deal in mind.

It is not unheard of for people to be exiled from the state of Georgia within the United States of America. Our request is probably rare. His genealogy and Irish connection would require that Ireland accept him as second or third generation Irish. Bearing in mind there are tens of millions of Irish people some of whose cases the sub-committee may investigate in future, there is a sufficient weight of Irishness for him to be considered.

Deputy Carey referred to some of the international agreements. He could be considered under the subsidiary protection under the EU direction issued on 26 October 2006 which speaks of humanitarian matters or anyone who is under severe threat of death penalty, abuse or maltreatment from his or her own government. It is not quite exactly that for which we are asking, but the wording can be so shifted. The lawyers speak of banishment, which is the legal term in the United States, and we speak on exile or repatriation. In whatever order, the lawyers were willing to work on such issues if they got a letter of commitment. The initial matter is a letter of commitment that the Irish Government is willing to accept this. Given Ireland's diplomatic and historical ties with and many business contacts in the state of Georgia, there are sufficient diplomatic, business, social and legal connections and enough good grounds and goodwill for him to be taken out of their hair forever with whatever necessary licensed conditions — he would never return to the United States of America. It is a further weight of punishment for whatever part he played in the events of that night. The lawyers think this would be sufficient.

That is an issue we can pursue. I have never heard of it being used previously, but certainly it is a matter on which we can make inquiries with the appropriate offices.

It may well be some use in meeting representatives of the legal team to see how that could be developed further.

Mr. Colbert

I have asked them to investigate the requirements of international law on such matters. I would remind the sub-committee that a short few years ago Palestinians committing more gross acts than Roger Collins in the Church of the Nativity in Jerusalem were extradited to Ireland under whatever terminology and some of them are currently resident in Ireland. The point I would make is that if it can be done for one, it can be done for another.

We will certainly pursue that possibility with the appropriate Government channels.

Is the detail of the diplomatic resolutions and computation in the draft to which Mr. Colbert referred?

Mr. Colbert

No. There is just a reference to it in the presentation.

The document is not in the presentation.

That explains it. How did this originate?

Mr. Colbert

It was one of the considerations. Without reading it out in the public domain, Senator Mooney will see all the processes the lawyers intend to go through.

Where did this specific one originate?

Mr. Colbert

With the lawyers and ourselves in Georgia.

On what grounds?

Mr. Colbert

As a necessary preventive tool on the destruction of Roger Collins's life.

I am sorry. I ask Mr. Colbert not to misunderstand me. I support everything that has been said so far but we must deal in the real world. I would hate to walk out of this meeting giving any indication that this could be an open door when everything tells me that all of the circumstances will be against international law and everything else. I appreciate what Deputy Carey has said about exploring it and let us do so. If Mr. Colbert is dealing with lawyers, did they come up with a legal precedent or a legal argument as to how this could happen?

Mr. Colbert

They are investigating the international law side of the matter to see whether it is possible. They are aware that banishment or exile is possible in the United States of America.

Ireland signed international agreements. Deputy Carey referred to the case with which he is dealing. From the little I know of the matter, it involves an Irish citizen and there are already reciprocal arrangements. Mr. Colbert has probably read one of the most infamous cases of a jockey from Tipperary who will now serve the remainder of his sentence in Ireland. That follows a long-established legal precedent within Europe and where there are reciprocal arrangements relating specifically to citizens of a country. There have been several instances in Britain, for example that of a gentleman who was arrested and sentenced erroneously in Bulgaria following a football match and who is coming back to Britain. In this instance, Roger Collins has no connection with this country and I cannot see how there could be a legal framework that would permit him to come back.

Like all of us here, I am open to any avenue. We are dealing with a man's life. I understand Mr. Colbert is both emotionally and personally involved in this case. All of us can understand that he is trying to find anything that would help. To be brutally frank, I cannot see how we could go down that road and hope to get a successful conclusion unless, as he stated, the lawyers are looking at it. Does Mr. Colbert understand my point?

Mr. Colbert

Indeed.

All I have read of this case is that it is about a process that let down this man,—

Mr. Colbert

Totally.

—who ended up as so many cases in America. His greatest hope is that there has been a sea change in American public opinion towards the death penalty and that juries are increasingly refusing to sanction the death penalty. Let us be blunt about it, governors are elected and any of them who want to succeed and remain in office will judge the wind of change.

That leads me to the question of whether there is any movement towards closure. What is the current legal position of Roger Collins's appeals and of the state of Georgia's attempt to proceed with the sentence?

Mr. Colbert

In May this year a man by the name of Alderman, who has been on death row for more than 31 years, will be executed. That man has a definite date. Roger Collins is in his 30th year and the scales of time are moving rapidly against him.

Notwithstanding whether we fail legally, the lawyers think that the possibility of negotiation, diplomatically and politically, would add to their case of presentation for a possible deal with the district attorney. They are aware that the district attorney is sensitive to the local public pulse, as is the governor, as Senator Mooney stated. All politicians can chant and rant, depending on the wind as the Senator stated, but the lawyers feel it would a tremendous card to have in their pocket. Senator Mooney will see from the profile that the lawyers would say Roger Collins's rights were violated on mental retardation grounds. If that argument fails, they think that they can do a deal diplomatically in which he would be banished from the United States forever and become stateless — terms like this become meaningful. They were the ones who initiated the depth of inquiry and we would support the depth of inquiry to see whether it is possible.

There was a case in the past 12 months in which the Vatican was involved where there was a major diplomatic and international effort to prevent an execution but where the authorities went ahead with it.

Has the case for a retrial been gone through?

Mr. Colbert

No. As Deputy Carey will see in the documentation following references to the mental retardation trial, negotiations on habeas corpus and one thing and another, the lawyers would indicate that there is a possibility of innocence but they are cautious due to the length of the case. When we asked them to explain what they mean by this, they stated the following about the law practised there. The files and the evidence would have degraded over the years. The deputy chief is now a political representative, a black man elected unopposed on two occasions, which is a rather rarefied occurrence in Georgia. An enormous number of factors giving rise to embarrassment and conflict could be avoided if we had this understanding. That is what they are saying. Again, the risk factor for Roger Collins will be significantly magnified if any attempt is made to go to court. They could accelerate the process. He has been fully briefed about this and knows about it. However, he is not prepared to accept life without parole, having spent 30 years on death row. He is not prepared to spend the rest of his natural life there. He is prepared to take an enormous risk, after 30 years. He is very calculated, informed in solitude, pain and reflection over that time. As one can see from his letter he is asking us to give him some type of chance in the name of humanity, decency and the sacred right to justice which were denied.

Mr. Colbert made reference to the district attorney. Is that the present district attorney?

Mr. Colbert

Yes, he was recently appointed.

Can Mr. Colbert repeat what the district attorney's attitude was?

Mr. Colbert

They believe because he is new in office he does not want to rehash the burdens of 30 years. He does not want to create embarrassment for his predecessors in that office, nor for the current Governor. He does not want to create embarrassment for the deputy chief of police, now a senator and who had a most peculiar liaison with the victim's mother. There are many other things which cannot be said publicly here until matters are dealt with. It is sufficient to say that justice was truly denied and never served. However, if they want us to take this to court he knows the risks involved. Many people would be immensely embarrassed in the event.

Who sets the date of the execution?

Mr. Colbert

Once they go to the district attorney and the negotiations fail, it is his office that sets the date.

Could Mr. Colbert please explain that process? Is it the legal team that goes to the district attorney?

Mr. Colbert

The current legal team, including Mr. Brian Farrell and Mr. Nathan Wills, will go.

Is Mr. Colbert content with that legal team?

Mr. Colbert

Absolutely, Mr. Brian Farrell is an outstanding lawyer.

At what point will they get into negotiations with the district attorney?

Mr. Colbert

After they have analysed all the evidence and decided what is available and what remains.

Are they doing that right now?

Mr. Colbert

They are doing this at the moment.

Is that the next step to be taken? Presumably this is happening as we speak and they will make a decision. On the legal initiatives Mr. Colbert is requesting from the sub-committee, if the legal advisers to Mr. Collins have particular issues, including what he calls the "banishment issue", that they wish us to pursue, perhaps they might communicate with us directly. If they write to the sub-committee, we will certainly investigate their request. However, from what Mr. Colbert has said the next step appears to be the ongoing investigations involving Mr. Collins's legal team and its decision to work with the district attorney. We certainly look forward to that. As he knows, we have previously written to Governor Sonny Perdue, but we have not had any response, apart from an acknowledgment. Should Mr. Colbert so wish, we can make further representations to the Governor of Georgia, if he believes that might be helpful.

However, as regards the other issues, as Mr. Collins's relatively new legal team is now investigating the case very deeply, it would be wise to await the outcome. The legal team will obviously make the next move, but it can communicate with us if there are particular angles it wishes the sub-committee to pursue. In the event, we shall see what can be done and we will also write again to the Governor expressing our overall concern about the case, perhaps from an historical perspective. In the short term, perhaps that will be the extent of our assistance.

Mr. Colbert also raised the question about the international covenant on the death penalty. I am not sure who is responsible for organising this initiative. There was one in Toronto, was there not?

Mr. Colbert

There was one in Toronto and on 1, 2 and 3 February next there will be one in Paris, specifically dealing with Asian and African countries.

Who decides when the next one or the one after that will take place?

Mr. Colbert

The committee will decide that.

Is that a matter of invitation?

Mr. Colbert

It is by invitation, yes.

Mr. Colbert wishes us to pursue that issue again.

Mr. Colbert

I also want to acknowledge the concrete letter from the recently departed United States ambassador. His attitude to the sub-committee when it wrote to him was one not of "shamrockery" but was concrete and supportive.

The final request to the sub-committee is that it should try to make some direct contact through a visit to Mr. Collins.

Mr. Colbert

I have in mind a diplomatic or political visit. It would be impossible for a member of the sub-committee or a Member of the Oireachtas to go in an official capacity, but it could be done in a personal capacity. It would have to be determined whether the visit would be undertaken as a diplomatic or political initiative or in a personal capacity. Visitors would have to decide whether to go as individuals or use diplomatic channels.

We will certainly take up those issues in whatever way we can. When Mr. Colbert gets back to his legal friends he might inform them that the sub-committee will respond in whatever way it can if they have particular issues they want us to pursue. However, the next initiative must come from Mr. Collins's new legal team and we look forward to that. Does Mr. Colbert wish us to write again to the Governor?

Mr. Colbert

I would suggest the sub-committee puts that on hold for a period until the legal sensitivities are resolved.

I thank Mr. Colbert for his presentation. The sub-committee is aware of his enormous commitment to this man and his cause. We shall be pleased to help in whatever small way we can.

Mr. Colbert

My personal thanks to the Chairman, sub-committee and staff for all the support over the years.

The sub-committee went into private session at 12.36 p.m. and adjourned at 12.40 p.m. sine die.
Top
Share