Skip to main content
Normal View

JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN debate -
Thursday, 23 Nov 2006

Epilepsy Drugs: Presentation.

This part of the meeting involves a discussion with Brainwave, The Irish Epilepsy Association, on the substitution of epilepsy branded drugs by generics. I welcome Mr. Mike Glynn, CEO, and Ms Ava Battles, director of services. I will shortly ask Mr. Glynn to make his opening presentation. Before I do so, I also welcome a former Member of the House, Mr. Joe Doyle, and I am glad to see he is keeping well.

I draw the delegation's attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. The delegation will make a ten-minute presentation, after which members will ask questions or make propositions.

Mr. Mike Glynn

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the opportunity to present our case today and, together with Ms Ava Battles, Brainwave's director of services, I look forward to answering any questions members may have on this issue. Dr. Norman Delanty, Ireland's leading epileptologist, was to have attended today but a major problem has arisen for him at Beaumont Hospital and he cannot join us. He has, however, assured us of his full support for our presentation today.

Epilepsy is described as the tendency to have recurring seizures and seizures are caused by abnormal neuronal activity or electricity in the brain. There are approximately 40,000 people with epilepsy, PWE, in Ireland and fewer than half of them have their seizures controlled, even though up to 70% of people with epilepsy can have their seizures fully controlled through the use of the correct anti-epileptic drug or drugs, AEDs. To achieve this seizure freedom, a person with epilepsy needs to have access to an epilepsy specialist with follow-up annual visits after control has been achieved. There are only four neurologists dealing with adults, out of a national total of 17, who have a specialised background in epilepsy.

These 17 neurologists represent one for every 249,000 people in Ireland, which is an improvement of one for every 7,000 since we made our submission to the joint committee last summer, an extra neurologist having been appointed. Most European countries have a neurologist for every 30,000 or fewer people. Many people with epilepsy in Ireland never get to see any neurologist, much less an epileptologist, and their diagnosis, treatment and care falls to their family doctor. Misdiagnosis is, therefore, very prevalent and Dr. Delanty and his colleagues must deal with the consequences of this every day.

Most European countries, even poorer eastern ones, have had epilepsy centres for more than 100 years. Many of these establishments started out as residential units but many have evolved to become centres of medical excellence in the treatment of epilepsy. Ireland has no such centre. Many of those countries also have national guidelines on epilepsy, setting out appropriate treatments and services for people with epilepsy. Again, Ireland has no such guidelines.

Irish people with epilepsy have had quite enough difficulties to deal with before this potential problem of inappropriate switching of branded anti-epileptic drugs, AEDs to generic AEDs was recently brought into play — a problem which hangs over their lives like the sword of Damocles. A change in the law protecting AEDs from inappropriate switching will lift this threat and that is what we are seeking the committee's help with today.

Since our submission to the committee last June, a major new study has been published on the subject of generic AED switching. One of most significant things about this work is the standing of its four authors. All four are world renowned epileptologists led by Dr. Pam Crawford from York, with Dr. Morgan Feely, an Irish clinical pharmacologist based in Leeds, Dr. Alan Guberman, a leading Canadian neurologist and Dr. Guenther Kramer, a world-renowned German opinion leader. All of the concerns expressed by Brainwave in its submission are warned against in their conclusions. They say: "As other AEDs lose patent protection, it is important to ensure that patients, pharmacists, prescribers and decision-makers are all aware of the issues to consider". The authors mention the medico-legal implications of switching and conclude: "Furthermore, the legal situation should be clarified, with responsibilities assigned for ensuring patients and physicians are informed".

Brainwave is the national body for people with epilepsy, their families and carers. It was established more than 50 years ago as a part of the Rehab Institute and has existed as a stand-alone member-driven charity since 1966. It has established offices in all parts of the country with a part-time staff member in each regional office. From these offices we provide a range of services to people with epilepsy and my colleague Ms Ava Battles can provide full details of each of these services by county and region, if necessary. For many people with epilepsy and their families and carers, Brainwave's services providing support, advice, information, literature, support groups, seminars, advocacy, training, epilepsy specialist nurse services etc., represent the only available services they can access.

When people go to a shop to buy a packet of Kellogg's Corn Flakes they do not expect to receive a brand X, Tesco or SuperValu packet of corn flakes and be told it is the very same thing. The Kelloggs corporation states it only makes its own brand of corn flakes and that the only way to get Kellogg's Corn Flakes is to buy that brand. It is much more important to ensure that every time one goes to the pharmacy, one receives the same brand of anti-epileptic drug, AED. A generic packet of corn flakes is unlikely to do any harm to one's health but an inappropriate generic AED could cause serious damage to every aspect of one's life.

Magda, not her real name, is a young German woman aged 32 who has frontal lobe epilepsy with nocturnal seizures. She works full time and needs a driving licence because travelling by car is the only way she can carry out her job. Her nocturnal seizures have been well controlled on tegretol, the generic name of which is carbamazepine, but one week after being switched to a generic version of carbamazepine she had her first generalised tonic clonic, GTC, seizure during the daytime. Magda's whole life unravelled as a result and the loss of her driving licence has dramatically impacted on her social life, quite apart from the effect on her job. In theory, Magda could sue all those responsible for what happened to her but she would probably need a very good, expensive lawyer who would could prove that her first GTC seizure, which was also her first ever daytime seizure, might not have happened anyway. Magda's case is one of many which are happening around the world at present. Even with all her problems, Magda is the patient of Dr. Guenther Kramer, one of the world's top epileptologists and her access to public transport in Germany gives her hope.

If Magda was Mary Murphy from Blacksod Bay or Kilteegan or Enniscorthy or Scotstown or any other part of Ireland her outlook would be very bleak. Her access to health care, work, education and social life would be radically reduced overnight. It is very unlikely that Mary would be in touch with Brainwave as most people, once their condition is controlled, tend to want to put their epilepsy in a little box letting as few people as possible know about it. This is totally understandable given the stigma still associated with the condition and the myths and misinformation still prevalent in Irish society. Unfortunately, epilepsy tends to raise its head again in many people's lives, even after years free from seizures. It is very difficult for Brainwave to reach these people to let them know about the possible threat to them of AED switching so that they can put in place some preventative measures. Almost certainly, somebody will successfully sue those responsible for inappropriate switching of their AEDs and things will then start to change. In the meantime, Brainwave has been strongly urging all its members and everybody with epilepsy to take preventative measures to ensure that their AEDs are never switched and that every time they go to their pharmacy they receive the same medication each time.

There have been six major, government sponsored, reports on epilepsy in the UK since the Second World War but only since the last one was published in 2002 has there been some follow-up action. This most recent report was called Epilepsy — Death in the Shadows and it concluded that 42% of the 1,000 epilepsy deaths each year in the UK, could be prevented. They found that the key to prevention is seizure control and half of the deaths were due to sudden unexpected death in epilepsy, SUDEP. Ireland's official epilepsy death toll has ranged from 53 to 72 per year over the past number of years according to the figures from the Central Statistics Office, CSO. It would be amazing if these figures were not understated because so many people in Ireland hide the knowledge of their condition.

There was also a landmark Epilepsy Fatal Accident and Sudden Deaths Inquiry in Scotland in 2002 into the death of Colette Findlay which was very critical of the lack of proper medical care she received especially on seizure control. As a result, many general practitioners throughout the UK updated their knowledge of epilepsy for fear of being similarly criticised. A recent survey of GPs in the Cork and Kerry area did not indicate that Irish family doctors have any awareness of such concerns.

Sudden unexpected death in epilepsy, SUDEP is a very real concern for many people. Kathy Sinnott MEP recently wrote about the tragedy of her own sister's death by SUDEP and I know of several people in the Oireachtas who have experienced epilepsy death in their close families. There have been no national reports into epilepsy in Ireland and the condition, in common with other neurological diseases, has a Cinderella status here. It seems to have been viewed at official level as something which, if ignored, can be avoided as a problem.

The expiry of the patents in newer, more expensive, epilepsy drugs and the appearance on the Irish market of generic versions of these drugs has happened in the last two years. This has coincided with the publication of the Brennan report which strongly advocated the extensive use of generics in the long-term illness scheme, LTIS, and general medical service scheme, GMS. The combination of these two elements has led to the major concerns for people with epilepsy, PWE, over AEDs.

The recent deal between the Department of Health and Children with the Irish Pharmaceutical and Healthcare Association, IPHA, would appear to indicate that the widespread substitution of branded drugs by generics is unlikely to happen in the near future. However, in some ways this just makes the situation worse and means that the threat is deferred rather than dealt with now. Lamotrigine, or Lamictal as is its branded name, was the first of the expensive epilepsy drugs to come off patent. Six pharmaceutical companies have now received licences for generic versions of lamotrigine from the Irish Medicines Board. Why have they bothered if there is no market here for them?

Manufacturers must make their branded products to within 5%, plus or minus, of a certain standard set at the time they receive their licences for each batch of the product they produce — that is to say from 95% to 105% accuracy, with a maximum 10% variance. A generic version of the same product may be made to within 20% minus or 25% plus — that is from 80% to 125%, a maximum variance of 45%.

AEDs have a very narrow therapeutic range and cannot be expected to accommodate overnight swings brought on by the replacement of an AED product by another AED which could be up to 45% different in its core ingredient. There are some grounds for hoping that the newer AEDs may not have quite as narrow a therapeutic range as the older drugs such as carbamazepine, sodium valproate and phenytoin. This is not based on scientific evidence but on the premise that the newer drugs are designed to reach specific parts of the brain to prevent seizure activity.

The Food and Drug Administration agency, FDA, has recently moved to protect the three older AEDs mentioned above from switching in the USA, more than 20 years after the FDA introduced its 80% to 125% bioequivalence rule for generics for all drugs. It made this decision some 20 years ago based on what it called "expert opinion" not scientific evidence. It is to be sincerely hoped that we will not be seeing them move, in 20 years time, to protect lamotrigine, gabapentin and the other, by then, no longer new drugs.

It must be obvious then that the switching of brand name AEDs for generics represents a very real legal and medico-legal threat to doctors, pharmacists, healthcare managers, legislators and others responsible for healthcare. Brainwave's real concern, though, is the potential to cause mayhem in the lives of Irish people with epilepsy. I urge the committee, therefore, to assist us in changing the law to protect these vulnerable people with epilepsy and thereby also protect everybody else.

I welcome the delegation and thank its members for a thought provoking presentation. There are some minor issues I would first like to address.

It was stated that there are 17 neurologists in the country, but only four have expertise in the treatment of epilepsy. I find this astounding and would have thought any person who qualified as a consultant neurologist should possess such expertise. Perhaps the delegation could refer to this in their answers.

I am sure I speak for most of the committee members when I say I would like to take up Ms Battles's offer to inform us of where regional offices are situated and who those staffing them are. The witnesses are probably well aware that generic drugs are usually considerably cheaper than branded product. There has been a considerable move in recent years to curtail costs in health care provision, particularly in the provision of drugs.

I found some of the presentation very informative and new. It showed that there is wide variation in terms of the product. Was the witness talking about the efficacy of the drug or its active ingredient? To what precisely was he referring? I have worked as a GP, and my understanding is that a generic drug has the same effectiveness as the original proprietary drug once it is licensed by the Irish Medicines Board. I would like clarification on this. I understand the need for the absolute control of epilepsy. However, if what the witness said about generic epileptic and other drugs is true, it has huge implications for the provision of health care in this country.

I have great sympathy for and understanding of where the witness is coming from. However, I would like clarification of the information contained on page six of the presentation.

I thank the group for its presentation. It has made a very straightforward proposal, but what is the view of the Irish Medicines Board on that? Has that proposal been made known to the IMB? My niece suffers from a form of epilepsy which can be caused by sleep deprivation. Is that common in children? She is expected to grow out of it.

I have spoken to a number of epileptics and they outlined some of the main issues they face. They are not allowed to fly, insurance companies will not insure them to drive, and certain lights in night clubs do not agree with them. Does the association have any recommendations to make in those areas?

I am surprised pharmacists would make a generic substitute of anti-epileptic drugs on a monthly basis. It is well known by doctors and pharmacists that there is a therapeutic window through which most anti-epileptic drugs work, and the window can change dramatically if different drugs are used. It is one thing to talk about a generic substitution which changes a person's intake from a branded to a generic drug and monitoring him or her until he or she returns to his or her therapeutic level but is the organisation aware of cases where pharmacists are handing out a packet of the drug in question without sticking to the one product? It is unbelievable that someone would be careless enough to do that.

Like Deputy Devins, I was surprised at the variance levels mentioned with respect to generic drugs. It is part of the same thing. It is not the amount of product contained in the anti-epileptic drugs that is important, it is how they affect the therapeutic window and the amount of the drug in the bloodstream at certain times. A 45% variance from maximum to minimum does not make any sense. One could understand a 10% variance — that would not change the overall therapeutic dose over a period of time. However, a 45% variance is huge. Does the Irish Medicines Board accept a 45% variance for generic drugs? Whatever about pharmacists being aware of those variances, I do not think that would be ever brought home to doctors, certainly not to GPs. That needs to be tightened up completely.

I agree with Deputy Devins that every neurologist should be able to deal with epileptic patients. They could, of course, refer difficult cases to one of the four people who have a special interest. The problem is that our neurology service, like our neurophysiology and neurosurgical services, are grossly under funded. Accessing any of those three services is unbelievably difficult for patients and their doctors.

I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to attend this meeting. I have a particular interest in this area and I am here largely to support the views outlined by Brainwave with regard to generic drugs.

My daughter was diagnosed with epilepsy at age five. She probably had it before that, but the symptoms were not clear. It took two years for the medication to bring her seizures under control. This was achieved through a combination of drugs ingested daily. I do not know whether that is what happens in a minority of cases. When the family would go on holidays, her medication would be packed into the car. It took two years to get the balance of drugs right for my daughter, but there is now talk about generic drugs that are not exactly the same. The impact of seizures on a child, or an adult, is significant. Our daughter managed to be seizure free for three years, mainly through our persistence in ensuring she took the drugs at the correct times.

I am concerned about generic drugs. If the drug is not identical to the branded drug, then the seizures will not be controlled. As parents dealing with this over two years, we thought we might never see the day when her seizures would be controlled. Thankfully, it did happen eventually. If someone has been on a drug or combination of branded drugs, there is a real chance that replacing those with generic drugs will lead to the reappearance of seizures.

When people find a drug that is effective for them, thoughts then turn to securing a long-term supply. Would a generic drug be available in five or ten years? Established drugs seem to have more longevity. I have concerns about the long-term supply of generic drugs.

I do not have a problem when a person is diagnosed with epilepsy and has the seizures brought under control through the use of generic drugs. However, I would have concerns for a person with an established and effective regime having his or her supply changed to generic drugs. The relief that an individual and his or her family gets when they know the symptoms are being managed is marked.

I see an opening for generic drugs in the initial stages when a person is diagnosed with epilepsy. I suppose the medical profession would bristle if I said the initial stage involves trial and error, but that is what it felt like to us. There is no textbook that says which drug must be taken. It took two years to establish the drugs that would work for my daughter. We tried several drugs before finding the correct combination and a generic drug could be introduced at that stage. For those who have an established and an effective regime, I would be reluctant to change to a new regime.

I was taken aback to realise the level of variation between the original branded drug and the generic drug. When we were giving the medication to my daughter, we were conscious not only of the quantity to be given but also of the time at which it should be given. We had to get my daughter at age of eight or nine to come in from play for her medication. It was crucial to give it to her regularly at the right times and with the right combination to maintain her seizure free. The threat such a change of drugs would pose to people suffering from epilepsy, which is a long-term condition, is unreasonable and unfair. The recommendation should be the other way around, namely, that the generic drug should be introduced only for those being diagnosed as new patients.

Mr. Glynn might respond.

Mr. Glynn

I will ask Ms Battles to respond to Deputy Devins's question on services and then I will respond to the other questions.

Ms Ava Battles

I will give information on the services, which will highlight what Brainwave does. Brainwave is a national organisation providing information, support, education and training throughout the 26 Counties. We do that through a network of community resource officers who operate in offices nationwide. We have a network of ten. To use the model of the old Western Health Board, in terms of counties Galway, Mayo and Roscommon, we have a community resource officer who operates from a Galway office. She provides our services for those counties through that office.

Some members raised issues related to driving, transport and so on. Our community resource officer in the Galway office provides outreach services in the other counties. She may organise an epilepsy awareness presentation in County Roscommon and invite people in the region to attend and discuss issues concerning their epilepsy. She goes through what epilepsy is and various aspects of it. People have an opportunity to ask her questions. On the following day she is available — we use the facilities of other voluntary organisations or the local CIC — for a one to one session with individuals if they want to discuss particular issues such as women and epilepsy.

With our multidisciplinary team we have two community epilepsy specialist nurses, one based between our association and Tallaght Hospital and the other based between the association and Beaumount Hospital. They also travel to the regions to provide specific information on epilepsy and the medical side of things, which would include the issue of AEDs. Those nurses are also available to people with epilepsy and to health professionals in the region.

We run health professional days to which we invite general practitioners, public health nurses and other health professionals, teachers and anyone else who comes in contact with epilepsy in their profession. They can find out about the latest issue in regard to epilepsy, such as an anti-epileptic drug, changes that have occurred and the new driving regulations. The driving regulations have changed from a motorist being required to be two years seizure-free to being one year seizure-free. That change can have a major impact on a person's life.

We also provide services for parents of children with epilepsy. We visit schools and provide information to teachers on epilepsy, how to deal with an epileptic seizure and how to deal with a child with epilepsy and with other children in the classroom. We have provided a teacher's pack to every primary and secondary school teacher. We are following up on that by visiting schools and making presentations to parents' councils, teachers or the children in the classroom. We have a range of literature including up to 40 leaflets and videos. We have every form of literature somebody would need on every aspect of epilepsy and this information is also available to people in the regions. We run support groups which are open to people to join. Ten or 15 people may want to meet on a monthly basis and discuss particular issues concerning their epilepsy.

That is a general overview of what we do. We have a website which people can access. People can give us information by e-mail. We try to provide a service through every means possible. As Mr. Glynn mentioned in his presentation, people can wait up to two years to see a neurologist. That is a two year gap where they need information, support and education on their condition. Information is the crucial factor in overcoming people's fear and ignorance of the condition. We need to get that information to people, which we are doing in regions, as opposed to people having to travel and access it somewhere else. That is a brief overview of our services.

Do people have to wait up to two years to see a neurologist?

Ms Battles

The current waiting list for an appointment with Dr. Norman Delanty in Beaumont Hospital is up to two years.

Is that the general experience throughout the regions?

Ms Battles

Yes.

What are the implications of that?

The position is much worse than that. There is a shortage of neurologists.

Ms Battles

In the case of a person from County Donegal who has to travel to Dublin to see a neurologist, he or she may have to wait two years to get a first appointment. That is a serious gap in services in terms of all the difficulties such an individual has to face.

In the case of a person who has been diagnosed and needs to be seen by a neurologist, for that period there is very little control——

Ms Battles

For that period he or she is being managed by his or her general practitioner.

He or she is not an expert in that area.

Ms Battles

No, absolutely not.

How many neurologists are required?

Ms Battles

The Comhairle na nOspidéal report recommends that there should be 39 adult neurologists. However, our population has increased according to the census figures, on which Mr. Glynn can provide the committee with more information, and for our 4.2 million population, comhairle recommends 41 neurologists.

How many do we currently have?

Ms Battles

Seventeen.

Some have been appointed but have not yet taken up their posts. For example, in County Sligo, in the north west, a neurologist has been appointed but is not yet in place. There are some new positions. Is that correct?

Mr. Glynn

They have not been appointed and the posts have not yet been advertised.

The advertisements were placed three weeks ago for the north west.

Mr. Glynn

The appointments——

I understand it will be six or nine months——

Mr. Glynn

If the appointment comes through in a year, we will be doing well. The Deputy is correct. There are four posts which have been approved.

We have 17 neurologists and 41 is the required number.

Mr. Glynn

With our population of 4.2 million, 42 neurologists would be required, which would be one neurologist per 100,000 people. That number would not bring us anywhere near the level in other European countries. That number is the target Comhairle recommended to aim for.

Is Mr. Glynn confident that within a certain period we will reach anywhere near that target?

Mr. Glynn

Not based on our experience in the past ten years. One lives in hope. Matters have improved comparatively in the past five or six years. Five years ago there were 11 neurologists and now there are 17, which represents a substantial increase in percentage terms. If the number could be further increased by another 17, we would be getting nearer the target.

Are there qualified neurologists to be recruited?

Mr. Glynn

Yes, absolutely. Many high quality Irish neurologists are working in other countries.

Would they return here?

Mr. Glynn

The week before last a diaspora meeting for neurologists was held and such a meeting is held every two years by neurologists in Ireland to encourage their colleagues working abroad to maintain an interest in this country and not to feel discouraged about returning. They have invited neurologists living in South Africa, Canada, Australia, the US and UK to make presentations on their various specialties, which are much broader than epilepsy. There are qualified neurologists who could be recruited quickly if the jobs existed, about that there is no question. A number of neurologists are working in Ireland but not as consultant neurologists who would be available instantly.

To return to Deputy Devins's point that any neurologist should be able to treat epilepsy. That is what happens in practice, but the International League Against Epilepsy contends that to treat epilepsy, epilepsy specialists are required and that epilepsy is a very specialised disease area. It is not practical for every neurologist to be a specialist in every neurological condition, no more than every GP being required to be an expert on every condition with which he or she has to deal. Brainwave, as a founding member of, and having an ongoing involvement with, the Neurologist Alliance, campaigns for neurologists, not for epilepsy specialists, the availability of whom would be a bonus. If we got the neurologists, we would be happy.

When Mr. Glynn mentions epilepsy specialists, does he mean neurologists who devote a certain percentage of their time to epilepsy treatment or neurologists with an extra qualification?

Mr. Glynn

They have extra qualifications and training in epilepsy, usually abroad, as well as their general neurology training.

How many people with that extra qualification or training are needed in the country based on the number of people who suffer from epilepsy?

Mr. Glynn

The proportion of four out of 17 is probably right. If we had 42, we would be happy with the same proportion, such as 11. It is for a general neurologist to be able to refer a patient or consult with that specialist when required. The specialists need not be neurologists either. Several epilepsy specialists are clinical pharmacologists or neurophysiologists or from other disciplines.

Is there a standard rate of epilepsy for all countries or does it vary in Ireland? Is Mr. Glynn satisfied the figure for the number of people with epilepsy in Ireland is accurate? Is it under-diagnosed or over-diagnosed?

Mr. Glynn

We do not know what the accurate figure is for Ireland. There is an accurate figure for Finland, which is 0.98% of the population. The UK has figures from general practitioners' reports which indicate 0.78% incidence. There is quite a discrepancy between the two figures. We think the truth might lie somewhere between the two. The Finnish figure is accurate but it appears to include people whose epilepsy is no longer active. That probably accounts for some of the difference from the UK.

How does one know one does not have epilepsy? Is that easy to determine?

Mr. Glynn

No.

Obviously, if one suffered a fit, one would know.

Mr. Glynn

One would not necessarily know. The reason there is a need for specialists is that epilepsy is always a clinical diagnosis. It is a difficult diagnosis and there is a huge rate of misdiagnosis. There are several other conditions that are often diagnosed as epilepsy.

What are they?

Mr. Glynn

Syncope, alcoholic seizures and a number of others. Non-epileptic seizures is quite a common condition.

Ms Battles

There are different types of seizures. One of those is absence seizures. Take the example of a child in a classroom. The Senator asked how one would not know. Let us say the teacher tells the pupil that two plus three equals five. The child only hears two plus equals five because the child is having what is known as an absence seizure. The child is talking, stops and starts talking again. That can go undiagnosed for years in some children. The figures from the UK state that one in 133 children have epilepsy. That is another statistic.

Mr. Glynn

I wish to clarify one matter. With regard to the question of whether generics covers all drugs, it does not. This problem is specific to epilepsy. Apparently, with most other drugs this range of bio-equivalents will work. The FDA imposed these rules in the US over 20 years ago and they were picked up throughout Europe. The Irish Medicines Board operates by those rules. They work fine for almost all conditions——

Basically, Mr. Glynn is saying that a generic could have 45% less of the active ingredient than the branded product.

Mr. Glynn

It is unlikely that a branded drug and a generic one can be that different. However, a branded drug to a branded drug can be that different.

I do not understand that.

The branded drug is the baseline product. One can only go 20% below it. However, with two generic drugs, one could be 20% below it and one could be 25% above it. It is among the generics, not measuring against the branded.

Is Mr. Glynn talking about the active ingredient?

Mr. Glynn

Yes.

Is that accepted by the Irish Medicines Board?

Mr. Glynn

Yes.

That is important information that most medics in the country and certainly the general public do not know.

Mr. Glynn

It is not widely realised because it does not have any implications beyond epilepsy. There are a number of small conditions——

I am sure it would have implications for every drug. If there is 20% less of an effective active ingredient, of course there will be implications. This is huge in terms of information and we should contact the Irish Medicines Board to get its opinion.

I will take up that suggestion. If it is necessary to invite representatives from the board, we will do it.

I thank Mr. Glynn for bringing it to our attention.

Mr. Glynn

We agree with what Deputy Curran said about using generics in new patients, provided it is always the same generic. A great deal of the problem in other countries arises when somebody is switched from a branded to a generic drug in the first month. That is fine and it works okay. However, when they are switched to generic drug B in the following month, that is when the 45% really kicks in. That is the problem.

There have been major problems with supplies from these generic pharmaceutical companies. I mentioned that six companies have secured licences in Ireland for generic lamotrogen. There were problems in the UK with two of those companies and generic carbamazepine in the not so distant past. Yes, generics can be used in new patients but only if there is a clear product line for that drug to confirm it will be available for the future.

Ms Battles

I wish to pick up on Deputy Curran's comments. When somebody is seizure free, is then changed to a generic drug and loses their seizure control, the research has shown that it is nearly impossible for them to get seizure control back. There are significant implications for the person concerned and their family when seizure control is lost.

What about sleep deprivation for children?

Ms Battles

There are many trigger factors for people with epilepsy. One of the triggers can be sleep deprivation. If somebody has epilepsy, we recommend that they sleep, eat regularly and so forth. With regard to driving, it was one year seizure free. With regard to discotheques, only 3% to 5% of people with epilepsy are photosensitive, which means they are affected by strobe lighting. Other people with epilepsy who do not have a diagnosis of photosensitive epilepsy are fine and can attend a discotheque. Again, this is one of the misconceptions about epilepsy. Our service provides information for a parent or a person with the condition as to what they can do.

What about flying?

Ms Battles

The Senator mentioned that. I presume he means air travel.

Ms Battles

I am not aware of any reason for telling somebody they cannot fly.

I was speaking to somebody yesterday who has epilepsy. She told me she is not allowed to fly.

Ms Battles

Does the Senator mean she is not allowed to go on holidays in an airplane?

Ms Battles

As far as I am aware, that is not true.

So there is no risk in flying for somebody with epilepsy?

Ms Battles

Obviously there is a risk if she has a seizure in the airplane but no more than if she has a seizure in a bus or outside the door of this room. Other than that, I cannot envisage a difficulty.

Mr. Glynn

She might have had difficulty obtaining travel insurance, which is a different matter. However, that should not be an issue. If she does, refer her to us. We will ensure she gets it.

Ms Battles

There might be another issue for the woman when one considers the triggers. If she gets stressed by flying, she might have a higher chance of having a seizure while flying. Her doctor or neurologist might know that. We can work on that with her. The Senator could refer her to us, if that would be useful.

We wish we could give Brainwave a firm statement but we cannot. We will forward the submission to the Department. The Minister and Professor Drumm will be back before the committee in January. We will incorporate what Brainwave has said with our submission to them. Thank you for the presentation.

Mr. Glynn

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee.

Sitting suspended at 10.30 a.m. and resumed at 10.35 a.m.
Top
Share