We are back in public session for a discussion on facilities for young people. Before hearing the presentations, perhaps someone could introduce the group.
Dáil na nÓg: Presentation.
I must go to have my flu vaccine in a few minutes. I ask the committee to excuse my absence. I will return as soon as I have had it.
Ms Jessica Kelch
First, I wish to take this opportunity to thank the joint committee for agreeing to meet with us, as we are addressing important issues for young Irish people. We are members of the Coiste na dTeachtaí steering committee. I am joined by Ashley Dennigan, Daniel Flanagan, Rudi Corcoran, James T. Doyle, Stephen Kirwan and Aidan Carr.
This morning we will be discussing themes selected by Dáil na nÓg. Theme one is migration and interculturalism, which entails a quick update. Theme two covers facilities for young people and will include background, our findings from 2006, ongoing work and matters on which we are calling for action.
I would like to provide the committee with some background details on Dáil na nÓg. It was set up in 2001 and is held annually, normally in the conference room at Croke Park. The 2007 Dáil na nÓg is due to be held on 17 February. Each county development board has a Comhairle na nÓg. Approximately 200 delegates represent all the counties on that day. I will now hand over to Aidan Carr.
Mr. Aidan Carr
Coiste na dTeachtaí is elected to follow up the progress from Dáil na nÓg each year. It is responsible for feeding back information to and from the local levels. There are 34 members of the coiste, one delegate from each local authority area, who are democratically elected. The main focus of today's presentation is on facilities for young people, but Rudi Corcoran will first give the joint committee an update on migration and interculturalism.
Mr. Rudi Corcoran
I will provide the joint committee with a brief update on migration and interculturalism. Members of the joint committee will see the relevant figures in the presentation. These are important statements by the young people of Ireland and it is the reason we are carrying on this work. Some questions arose during our research, including what is being done today to educate and inform people about the changes in society. We would like some more information on the status and rights of the new Irish as a means to mutual understanding when they come into the country. We feel there is not enough information on the new Irish. We see schools as a way of informing young people, because most young people go through some form of education. This is a key opportunity to educate them about these matters.
Our research found that the national action plan against racism has been active in this area. The plan states that changes to the curriculum are being implemented on a phased basis. We would like to know to what extent they are being phased in and on what level. The document also states that all levels of the education system must be included. This includes primary and secondary education. We regard primary education as a key sector in which to implement the curriculum because primary school children are in their formative years when prejudices or stigmas are formed. If we can combat these, we can prevent them from forming such opinions.
We are seeking a meeting with the Department of Education and Science and the National Council for Curriculum Assessment to consult with them on this matter. We would like to encourage a public awareness campaign through festivals of world culture, such as that organised by Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.
Mr. Daniel Flanagan
Comhairle na nÓg has twice selected alcohol and drugs misuse as a Dáil na nÓg theme. Also, facilities for young people has been selected twice. Young people recognise this lack of facilities as a major issue in their lives. Young people would like to have affordable youth facilities, safe places, transport, Government-funded centres, equal power for young people and adults in designing facilities and links between motivation and young people's involvement.
An example of facilities for young people in a local town is in Shannon, County Clare. Youth clubs take place three days a week, there are traditional sessions in the community hall, GAA clubs, soccer clubs, swimming clubs, golf clubs and Irish dancing schools. In regard to plans for new facilities in the future, a new multi-arts theatre is in the planning process for 2009-10 in Shannon, County Clare. This would be of great use to a large number of organisations, including clubs, musical societies, etc, in the area and surrounding towns. Young people's involvement in the planning of such a venue is important. Even though the musical society is used more by adults, young people should be consulted in the planning process.
Ms Ashley Dennigan
I will focus on two statements from Dáil na nÓg 2006. There is a need to increase low cost transport for rural and disabled young people. Also, the Dáil na nÓg recommendations last year and this year called for an increase in low cost transport for rural and disabled young people. First, I will outline the problems when using transport. One of the main problems facing young people using public transport is the high cost. We believe this needs to be addressed immediately. Many young people feel alienated and unable to travel to youth events or structured activities because of the lack of affordable transport. To solve this problem, we suggest an assessment of current prices and an introduction of reductions. Also, we would like more offers at weekends, holidays and evenings.
We also found there is a problem with young people proving their age. Young people have limited income and there is always confusion about who qualifies as a child. To solve this problem, we suggest the introduction of a national identity card for young people aged 12 to 18 years or while still in full-time secondary education.
We outlined the problems associated with young people getting public transport. Young people have similar anxieties to adults when waiting for, and travelling on, public transport. Girls are more likely to feel unsafe than boys. Things which cause these anxieties include drunks, groups of rowdy people, cars stopping at bus stops, strangers, especially strange men, and someone odd. We felt that travelling alone by taxi causes unease for women as they feel isolated and lack control. To solve this problem, we suggest we locate pick up and drop off points, taxi ranks and bus stops as close as possible to facilities. Also, these pick up and drop off points should be well lit, include seating and be positioned in busy areas where casual surveillance opportunities exist.
We call for changes for our young people so there are safe places and facilities for them and transport to and from these facilities. Child fares on transport should apply to under 18-year-olds. We would also like a national identity card for young people aged 12 to 18 years or while still in full-time secondary education.
Mr. Stephen Kirwan
I wish to talk about our proposed national website. In 2006, the need for a national website was realised by Dáil na nÓg. This was clear in that it was voted the number one statement by delegates — a national website to inform people about youth events and dedicated to promoting facilities in every part of the country. The proposed website would work to inform young people of alternative youth orientated events in their areas such as youth groups, youth cafes, youth clubs, concerts, etc., but it would also work as an information sharing network and resource to youth organisations.
Our proposal is not wild or costly. Our plan does not incur high cost but rather minimal maintenance and updating. If it is publicised properly, the benefits would be invaluable, particularly if we are to try to catch up with our peers in the USA and UK whose youth systems are quoted as being ten years ahead of ours. With the click of a button, successful projects in certain parts of the country and even the lack and imbalance of facilities can be clearly demonstrated. Surely if we, as a nation, want to make progress, the basic idea of sharing information and achievements on a national scale would encourage high standards but also more facilities while allowing young people to know what is on in their area.
The Internet was the obvious way to do this. As members will be aware, we live in a new and exciting age of technology and communications. We are living through a revolution. That fact is clearly demonstrated by the pure mass of Irish teens on the infamous Bebo website which has been in the mass media a lot recently. According to 2006 census figures, 50% of young people are connected to the Internet at home and this figure is set to rise as the dependency on Internet communications is becoming a compulsory addition to the education and leisure of both young and old not only in our country, but across the world.
Our solution would stop the over-reliance on word of mouth and would provide a more effective advertisement campaign on these youth facilities. A website would build a comprehensive network of contacts between various youth groups and youth leaders on a national scale which could generate and improve on ideas for expansion and improvement of facilities. It is widely felt, and it was alluded to at the last Dáil na nÓg, that lack of facilities leads to anti-social behaviour. The website would clearly indicate areas of improvement and would prove the direct correlation between anti-social behaviour orders and the lack of proper facilities. It grants young people the basic right of knowing exactly what is going on in their area by effective, accurate and trustworthy information.
The coiste asked the Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, to agree to the request for this website and it was duly accepted. He has asked his officials to proceed with the coiste's recommendation and we will be involved in developing the website and the improvement of its content. However, without proper transport and proper funding for facility improvement in conjunction with this, our project serves no purpose.
Ms Kelch
Facilities for teenagers are few and far between. We are the people who require these services, facilities and opportunities. Young people are the future but they are also the present. We need to work hard to get these facilities but we also need the support of those who can provide them for us. On behalf of Coiste na d'Teachtaí and the young people of Ireland, I thank the committee for its time.
We thank the group for the excellent presentation.
I thank the group for its excellent presentation. It is inspiring to see the level of talent and it is great to see these young people involved in a group. I like to think of myself as reasonably young, but I am now in my 30s unfortunately. I may be out of that group, although perhaps less so than some other members.
We recently formed a branch of Young Fine Gael in Carlow. I did so deliberately to try to keep in touch with young people and to find out what they want. The one thing which struck me straightaway was that it is a very diverse group. One is dealing with 15 to 29-year-olds, which is a wide spectrum in that one person could still be in secondary school while another is buying his or her first house. There are many changes in one's life during that period.
The difficulty is putting the facilities in place. Dáil na nÓg is a great idea because it provides a forum in which young people can articulate their views. The group will realise there is a huge turnover of people. People go to college and start work and then they leave. How does the group believe it will cope with that constant change? Life changes all the time for all of us but it changes very quickly for young people and their needs and requirements constantly change. What is important to them today might not be important in a year or two years' time. The group itself will be out of touch very quickly, which is inevitable.
A large number of people are involved in the performing arts in Carlow between the music and dance schools. One is talking about hundreds of people even in a small town such as Carlow. The town is getting a new visual arts centre in which people will be able to perform and demonstrate their talents. How will youth cafes work?
Politicians are all dying to help young people but it is a question of putting something concrete in place. I met a group recently which was complaining about a lack of facilities in Carlow. When I asked what it wanted, it said it needed more things. I asked what type of things it needed but it could not give me a concrete example of what it wanted which is a difficulty I and everybody else face. A skateboard park might be important to a teenager but not to someone in his or her early 20s. The group broke up the topics in a clear manner but for us to do our job, how can we better work together in the future?
I also welcome the group and compliment it on its gender balancing which is a little better than the Dáil. I am a little surprised there is not a 50/50 gender balance because we would like to think the younger age groups might like to aspire to being public representatives in the future. That issue might affect Dáil na nÓg's next election. In any case, they all are welcome.
Mr. Kirwan mentioned the practice in the UK and the USA and that their youth programmes are ten years ahead. Could he expand on that? What are they doing that Dáil na nÓg would like to see happening here?
I take it Dáil na nÓg meets once a year as a national group, but I presume there are regular local meetings on a county basis. How does that operate locally? I am from County Mayo and while I see there are representatives here from all parts, I wonder how the local meetings operate and whether we could interact locally with our own groups.
I noted the list of issues Dáil na nÓg would like to see on the website, which sounds like a good idea. Is it purely to promote social facilities? Does Dáil na nÓg want the website to offer advice on education and the entire range of social services or is it purely for youth clubs, concerts and the like? How do they see it operating? They might explain how it operates in the other countries to which they referred.
A number of years ago the health board of which I was a member set up a youth café in Galway, but it was for the older college-going age group. How do they see such cafés operating in their own localities? Would they run the youth cafés? Would they expect to staff them on a voluntary basis? Perhaps they would further explain what they mean so that we can have an idea of the costs involved in promoting and supporting such places. Perhaps young people could access the Internet through the cafés. We would be delighted to support something like that for Dáil na nÓg, but perhaps they could give us a better idea of what they seek.
Mr. James Doyle
I represent Fingal. There were a number of questions from the members and I will try to get through them. Senator Browne stated that attitudes change, people move on and there are different needs for different age groups. In the six years in which I have been involved in Dáil na nÓg facilities have been a constant theme. Despite younger people become involved who may not have had the experience previously, such representatives will still say they want facilities. As has been said, some people want skate parks and others just want a place to hang out. The way forward is integrated facilities. There must be youth friendly community centres as opposed to dedicated youth centres. One must integrate the centres into the community to get the county councils on board because they will not provide funding for a youth dedicated facility when they can have a facility that will service the entire community.
Deputy Cooper-Flynn asked about Dáil na nÓg at local level. Dáil na nÓg and Comhairle na nÓg, the local youth council in each local authority area, is an evolving process. I am involved in Comhairle na nÓg my area. Whereas each county council or city council has a Comhairle na nÓg, its level of development and involvement would be different across the country. For instance, Donegal has a fantastic system where there is good rapport between the Comhairle members and the local county councillors and the Comhairle is involved in many activities. That would not occur in other parts of the country. That may be put down solely to funding and dedication from the development boards within the city or county. How those structures operate is up to the county councils.
Currently, Dáil na nÓg members from the coiste and members from various departments in the Office of the Minister for Children are involved in a Comhairle na nÓg implementation group, which is drawing up guidelines on how to run a local youth council. In 2002, Comhairle na nÓg was set up, after the first Dáil na nÓg, under the national children's strategy and few guidelines were issued. It left much room for people to say they wanted it to go one way, while other development boards stated they were going to use another model. There should be a standardised model which specifies certain standards to which one must adhere and there must be the ability to identify one Comhairle in Dublin city with another in Carlow, for instance. We are working on that at present.
Mayo has a local youth council. However, the purpose of the youth council in my experience is less to do with Deputies and Senators and more to do with county councillors because it is locally orientated and focuses on local issues. It may be different in other areas, but I do not see a role for Deputies or Senators in the local area.
Is there an age limit for Dáil na nÓg?
Mr. Doyle
Under 18. Officially, we are children until we are 18. Dáil na nÓg caters for those aged from 12 to 18 — teenagers. Originally, there was Dáil na bPáistí which was for primary school children, but that was discontinued.
As I stated, it is an evolving process. There is an element of recognising what we are doing wrong, what we can do better, and what is good that we should keep. Dáil na nÓg is only a few years old. In the grand scheme of things, we are not completely representative or completely perfect, but we are working towards that.
Does anybody wish to add to what has been said?
Mr. Kirwan
The system in place in the United Kingdom and the United States involves a comprehensive network of information which enables a youth group in London, for example, to access a comprehensive government on the Internet. I did not take note of the web address, but it exists and can be checked out. A London youth can log on to the Internet and get in contact with a youth group from Newcastle, for instance. There is a comprehensive network that shares information and builds up contacts. The way to go forward is by building up contacts with other youth groups.
If we cannot share success and see what is succeeding in this country, how are we meant to go forward? If we cannot share in this way, we will keep going around in circles. A website on the Internet is probably the most effective way of providing and sharing information. Sharing the success in certain areas such as Shannon will help certain other areas like Mullingar or Athlone develop.
Do the representatives meet internationally? Do they meet similar groups in the UK?
Mr. Doyle
Not yet.
I take it they are waiting for funding to do so. They are open to that idea.
Mr. Doyle
We, as Dáil na nÓg, have not met on an international level, but I was involved with Fingal Comhairle na nÓg, which is my youth council, in an exchange programme with the Birmingham Young People's Parliament and the UK Youth Parliament. They came over to us and we did workshop based activities on what is a good youth parliament system. Their system is different from ours. Whereas we, in the Fingal Comhairle, meet in a room in the county council buildings and, occasionally, in the council chamber with county councillors, they have a dedicated building, not dissimilar to the Dáil Chamber, in which they meet. We drew comparisons. Then we went over to them, which was great craic. It is something we should explore.
Mr. Corcoran
I am going to Strasbourg for six days in February, not as a member of Dáil na nÓg but as an MEP to the Youth Parliament as part of the Euroscola programme. From my knowledge of and representation at Dáil na nÓg and Comhairle na nÓg, I will be raising these issues and speaking to other young people. There are 24 people going from Ireland, as there are from every country in Europe. Although not acting officially, I will definitely raise these issues for discussion and see how young people in other countries feel about them.
Is there an urban-rural divide in Dáil na nÓg? Are all the members of the delegation based in urban areas or are any based in rural areas?
Mr. Corcoran
There is a mix.
Are there different needs? Even remote rural areas may possess more community spirit. People could be living in large housing estates and might not know each other that well. Are there different needs for young people based on where they live or are those needs all the same?
Mr. Corcoran
I would imagine so. I am from Carlow town but I have many friends who live in rural areas of the county. I could walk to a hurling, rugby or GAA club in ten minutes and I could walk into town in the same amount of time. However, there is a difficulty for a person who lives five or six miles outside the town. This returns to the transport need to which we referred earlier. We need regular bus services on particular routes on which student fares would be charged. Without such services, young people are isolated, they cannot socialise and they do not develop good social skills.
There is probably a GAA club in every village in the country but there is a need for social and other clubs. As the Senator stated, there is a drama society in Carlow which young people living in rural areas would be interested in joining, but they do not have the means to travel into the town because their parents might be working, they might be obliged to get the bus from school, etc. There is a definite need to provide bus services such as those to which I refer.
When I was Mr. Corcoran's age, there were no taxis in Carlow. My father was a Deputy and I recall a man approaching him with the mad idea of putting in place a taxi system in Carlow. This shows how much has changed in such a short period.
Mr. Corcoran
I presume the Senator is referring to Patsy Whelan in that regard.
I apologise for my late arrival. The presentation refers a great deal to ID cards. Does Dáil na nÓg hold a position on the introduction of national identity cards for all citizens, not just younger people? I do not see the logic of introducing such cards for people of a certain age because the cards would be defunct when they turn 18. Does Dáil na nÓg adopt positions on an individual or local basis or as a collective? In what sort of lobbying does it engage and is it affiliated to the Union of Students in Ireland or similar groups?
Ms Dennigan
When we carried out research, we discovered that it is possible to obtain a student travel card but the difficulty is that one must be wearing one's school uniform when catching the bus because one will otherwise not be able to avail of the student fare. I travelled here by bus this morning and I was charged an adult fare. I am only 16 and I believe that is an injustice. The Government recognises children as being individuals who are under 18 years of age. However, 16 year olds travelling by bus are often charged adult fares.
We carried out other research and discovered that USIT cards are not recognised in Ireland. These cards are for students but they are not recognised here. They are, however, recognised in Northern Ireland and Europe. We are seeking national identity cards for schoolgoing children and these should remain in force until such individuals have finished their education and earn an income. That would probably happen when they reach 18.
My question relates more to national identity cards for all citizens. Some people are of the view that it is an infringement of one's civil liberties to be obliged to possess an identity card. I am surprised that our guests, who are young people, are so keen on seeing such cards introduced. However, I understand why they want them in respect of difficulties relating to accessing transport. I am more interested in discovering Dáil na nÓg's view on national identity cards such as those used in many other European countries.
Mr. Corcoran
One of our suggestions is that, on reaching the age of 12, every person should be issued with an ID card incorporating photographic identification and their date of birth, address and additional information, and that they should retain these until they reach 18 years of age. Such cards would replace Garda identification cards. There is no reason the cards to which we refer should become invalid when a person reaches the age of 18. Everyone should have a national age card.
I am talking about a national identity card, not a student card.
Mr. Carr
Most people over the age of 18 have passports, driving licences and various other documents, so there are methods of identification available. However, we are seeking the introduction of a standardised card that will cover people until they reach the age of 18 and that will be recognised by everyone.
Mr. Doyle
The Deputy asked an interesting question regarding our view on ID cards in general and whether this is collectively or locally based. The main issue with Coiste na dTeachtaí, our committee, and Dáil na nÓg is that we meet only one day each year and we find it difficult to cover many issues. This is through no fault of our own or of the office of the Minister for children. There are funding issues and it is a developing process. However, as a coiste, we can only act within the mandate that has been given to us by Dáil na nÓg and we only discuss two issues on the day we meet. We cannot necessarily make a decision on ID cards because it is not our right or responsibility to do so. We are confined to the outcomes of Dáil na nÓg. We can elaborate slightly on these and carry out research in respect of them, but our hands are tied beyond that. That is the best answer I can provide.
Mr. Corcoran
We can give individual opinions.
Mr. Carr
One of the fundamental problems with Dáil na nÓg is that a mandate is provided but this is quite limited.
Mr. Doyle
Hopefully, the position will improve.
What will happen when our guests turn 18? What comes after Dáil na nÓg for them?
Mr. Kirwan
The real Dáil.
Do our guests wish to make a final comment? If they come before the committee next year, we will hopefully still be here to meet them.
Mr. Doyle
We will not be here next year. Dáil na nÓg meets on 17 February and a new Coiste na dTeachtaí will be elected at that point.
In the context of the next Dáil na nÓg, what matters would our guests like to see being given priority in the next 12 months?
Mr. Doyle
We cannot answer that question because we are waiting to see what the young people of Ireland choose as the relevant topics.
Is the lifetime of each Dáil na nÓg one year?
Mr. Doyle
Yes.
Mr. Flanagan
One is elected by one's comhairle to go forward to Dáil na nÓg. If one wishes to be put forward again, one must start at the beginning. There are at least 200 people involved and it is not always the case that one will be re-elected. If one is lucky, one might be re-elected.
That is democracy.
I thank our guests for coming before the committee. I hope we can make some progress in respect of their agenda.
The joint committee adjourned at 11.10 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 30 November 2006.