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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN debate -
Tuesday, 22 Jul 2008

Polio and Post Polio Syndrome: Discussion.

Members, ladies and gentlemen, we are now in public session for our meeting with the representatives of the Post Polio Support Group. I welcome Mr. Hugh Hamilton, chairman of the Post Polio Support Group, and his colleagues. The group has had previous successful engagements with this committee. I hope our engagement today will be no less successful and productive for the group.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members may ask questions after the presentation. I ask all present to ensure their mobile telephones are switched off as they interfere with the sound system.

I invite Mr. Hamilton to introduce his team and make his presentation, after which I will call on members to ask questions.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for inviting us to appear here today. I would like to introduce the members of our group who accompany me here today. Joan Bradley is our deputy chair and founder, Paula Lahiff is our secretary, who is taking the place of John McFarlane, our treasurer, who is, unfortunately, in hospital, and Jim Costello is our former chairman. I would also like to thank our members who are in the Gallery who have helped us put together this presentation. We very much appreciate their support.

Given that many here may not have encountered our group previously, it may be helpful if I outline some of the background to polio and post polio syndrome. Thankfully, polio is now a disease that children and their parents need not fear any more, as long as high vaccination levels are maintained. Everybody's polio experience is different. Polio was mainly a disease of infancy; hence, the old name "infantile paralysis", and many of our members, now typically in their early sixties, have no memory of a time before they had polio. As young children they were placed in hospital, often for many years, without seeing their families, undergoing painful rehabilitation, including significant surgical reconstruction. They were enabled, in time, to live within their families and communities and to take up employment.

While the majority of people who survived polio recovered, well-respected studies confirm that of approximately 7,000 survivors in Ireland there are some 4,000 who can expect to be diagnosed with post-polio syndrome. That is approximately 60%.

Post polio syndrome affects adults many years after the original infection and is characterised by new difficulties in the activities of daily living, particularly mobility related ones. The condition is progressive and there is no cure. Although the population of polio survivors is aging and will naturally decline, we expect the numbers we support to increase until 2015 and then decrease, halving by 2025 and not being significant after 2040.

I will now ask Jim Costello to address the members on behalf of our polio survivors who are experiencing post polio syndrome.

Mr. Jim Costello

It is important that I record the gratitude of our members for the careful reception and strong support we have received from this committee during and after previous presentations. I can honestly say that our last appearance before this committee was the catalyst for a sea change in official attitudes towards our group and polio survivors generally. The members' support not only assisted us to get increased funding but, more importantly, it helped us to achieve a stature in our dealings with State agencies which enabled us to articulate effectively on behalf of polio survivors. Their support gave us confidence. It energised our work, especially in the past four years. That has led to a tangible improvement in the lives of polio survivors.

During our last presentation we gave an example of a member to whom we had given an electric wheelchair and she was then able to go to the local shop for the first time in 12 years unaccompanied. Recently, we funded a rooftop wheelchair hoist for a member, for his own specially adapted motor car, which has enabled him to travel independently, something he could not do beforehand. We will continue to tackle such problems of social isolation.

Polio survivors are a stubborn lot. We are protective of our independence and tend to shun support or help. We do not like to be regarded as victims and will do our utmost to make our own way and provide for our own needs and requirements. Many polio survivors live independently and still work in spite of post polio syndrome. Others have retired either on age grounds or medically because of post polio syndrome.

When we spoke to the committee just four years ago, many were outside the loop of the health and support agencies. Our focus has been on ensuring that all available supports are channelled towards the maintenance of independent living and the recognition of the dignity of each individual. I have no doubt that but for the work of our group some would have been accommodated, at a considerable cost to the State, in a residential institutional setting. We believe polio survivors are entitled to the dignity of that independence and we hope to continue to work to provide it.

With post polio syndrome, the polio survivor notices new weakness, often in a previously affected leg or legs, new muscle and joint pain and a loss of ability to balance. The overall weakness is described by many as fatigue or loss of energy - an inability to carry out simple daily tasks, which become a severe burden. They seek help from the medical profession and then receive what, to many, is devastating news. They now have post polio syndrome, for which there is no cure.

Many polio survivors newly joining our group have neglected their condition over some years, often through denial, and are very costly to support in the initial phase. We are finding that a great number of polio survivors are making the transition from supported walk to electric scooter or chair. That is another costly exercise.

This short description understates and simplifies the challenges in a polio survivor's life, as he or she must cope with pain, intolerance to the cold, and perhaps breathing difficulties and swallowing problems, as well as the many other health problems that can occur. The focus is not to evoke pity, but to emphasise that there are small and meaningful steps that can be taken to ensure the dignity and care of polio survivors.

There are a number of practical ways in which this assistance can be provided. Paying doctors' and other medical bills, and buying prescription and non-prescription medicines is a serious cost of living issue for many polio survivors who must balance the cost of proper medical care against other vital living costs. Everyone was greatly encouraged by the Minister, Deputy Harney, when she spoke to this committee in November last in the context of the eligibility review of the medical card scheme and mentioned giving particular consideration to polio survivors. We have suggested to her that she make medical cards available to polio survivors over the age of 55 suffering from post-polio complications. This would cater in a practical way for most of those who were unfortunate enough to contract polio before vaccination became widely available.

The average age of the polio survivor population is 62. The age profile of our 750 members and the many other polio survivors who we support from time to time means only approximately an extra 300 medical cards would need to be created. The cost would be modest and economical in the long run, but the benefit to polio survivors would be great. One must remember that as the years go by the extra cost incurred by the State will decrease as polio survivors reach 70 years, when entitlement to a medical card is automatic.

I will give an example of the particular health requirements of polio survivors. Survivors, who have breathing difficulties as a consequence of post-polio syndrome, must hire ventilators to assist their breathing and without a medical card, must pay the first €90 per month under the drugs payment scheme - just to stay alive. This is an annual sum of €1,080, which has to be paid from a relatively low net income. It is our contention that the cost of using a device to maintain life's essential energy levels should not be a prohibitive burden.

Polio survivors, in general, are in the latter part of their lives. Our group exists to ensure that their needs, many of which are urgent, are met within their lifetimes. I will now ask Paula to continue the presentation.

Ms Paula Lahiff

The group supports all those with post-polio syndrome throughout the State, whether or not they are members. It is our principle not to turn away those in need.

The form of support depends on the individual polio survivor's requirements and may vary from the minor, where we supply a folding walking stick, to extremely complex forms of assisting technology. Mainly we supply aids for daily living that allow the polio survivor to live life in a meaningful and independent manner. However, what we can buy depends on from where the funding is derived. We receive funds from State sources, others from charitable organisations and the rest from our own fund-raising efforts.

The majority of funding for aids, appliances and services comes from HSE grant. Members are supplied with wheelchairs, callipers, orthotics, special shoes, as well as the simple things such as kettle tilters, grab sticks and walking frames - meeting this endless list is a daily challenge to the group. We also fund services such as physiotherapy, chiropody, respite breaks and counselling. In all, in the past three years we have spent an average of €238,000 per annum on such direct supports. Annually, our group receives grants totalling €400,000 from the HSE. In addition, and on average, we raise a further €75,000 through our own fund-raising efforts. As a support group - in the widest sense of the term - and as long as finances are available to us, we must assist members wherever they encounter hardship or difficulty in their living arrangements. Half the funds raised in 2007 by polio survivors, their families, friends and carers were used to provide heating grants of €200 to the 175 of our members who are most needy. Everyone is aware that fuel costs have rocketed in the interim.

No group or organisation in receipt of public funds is immune from the requirement to show value for money. This is particularly the case in straitened economic times, when the imperative to show that public money is being spent well remains paramount. In financial terms, the group is spending the same amount each year on direct supports. However, the money does not go as far.

When we spoke to the committee in 2004 we were supporting 500 members. We now have a membership of 750, which represents an increase of 50%. The funding spent on direct help to members and non-members alike has remained static and non-inflation linked since it was granted in November 2004. A smaller proportion of polio survivors will be helped this year compared to last and sadly, an even smaller fraction will be provided with assistance next year. As a group, we will continue to be challenged financially and, what is more, a heating grant will not be provided in 2008.

Ms Joan Bradley

As a group of people with a chronic neurological condition, polio survivors are well aware of the lack of medical services from consultant through to primary care level. This matter has been brought to the attention of the committee on many occasions and members are aware that it affects so many people in groups such as ours. However, as a group that represents people who deal with pain on a daily basis, we want to add our voices, as strongly as possible, to those seeking improved neurological services. Speedy diagnosis and careful monitoring by consultants and comprehensive multidisciplinary aftercare are key to a reasonable standard of life for those with post-polio syndrome. Polio survivors should be encouraged to live and work in the community and should not require expensive institutional care.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

Our group will continue to advocate for all polio survivors in order to maximise their independence and dignity as citizens. We want those who work to remain in employment for as long as possible, we want to support polio survivors in their homes for as long as possible and we want the latter to remain active in their communities for as long as possible. Polio survivors and their families tell us this is what they want.

The group, with the limited resources at its disposal, will support them in achieving these goals to whatever extent possible. We have identified some measures that will assist us in our work, including the provision of medical cards to polio survivors over 55 years of age who suffer with post-polio syndrome and a modest increase in the subvention we receive from the HSE for the provision of direct benefits to polio survivors. These measures, if secured, would make a world of difference to polio survivors and their families.

The support and encouragement we have received from the committee and from individual members in the past has been important in motivating and driving us on. The fact that the efforts made by the committee have made a real and substantial improvement in the lives of hundreds of polio survivors will, I hope, encourage it to continue its support for us.

I thank members for their attention. We would be delighted to answer any questions they wish to pose.

I thank our guests for their concise presentation. We will group questions from a number of members and our guests may then provide answers in respect of them.

I fully support the position adopted by our guests in respect of medical cards, particularly when one considers that the numbers involved are so small and that the benefits, as outlined by Mr. Costello, would be so great. I wish to pose a number of questions regarding various aspects of the difficulties experienced by our guests. It is important they realise they have the support of the committee. I hope we will be able to agree a joint position on this. That is little to ask for what this group has suffered.

Deputy Reilly is right, we need to focus on practical support. When the group appeared before the committee previously, it got a positive result. I hope, although the committee does not have the same members now, that we can achieve a similar result.

I offer my full support on the issue of medical cards. I welcome the fact that the Minister, Deputy Mary Harney, has indicated her mind is open on the issue and hope we can push her to granting these. This must be the focus for the committee in terms of achieving a result for the group following its visit to us.

Ms Lahiff said no heating grant was provided for 2008. I am aware the cost of fuel and heating has risen considerably this year. She said the support group provides a small grant to 175 of its members. Will she expand on this issue. Has she a proposal the committee should push on the group's behalf in this regard?

I would like to be associated with the warm welcome to the group and thank it for coming before the committee. Before the group came in, we discussed how important it is for groups that come before the committee to feel they have achieved something following the exercise. It was good to hear acknowledgement of this. It is good that the group feels it achieves something and that the committee does also. I hope we make progress on the issues that are still of concern.

I appreciate the contact I have had over recent weeks in my constituency with colleagues of the group. I am always happy to hear from people and to hear them acknowledge what is being done. Not being defensive about public representatives, we get all sorts of representations and lobbying groups. However, it is good to have contact with people who are positive towards us and who give us the responsibility of trying to help. My colleagues and I will continue to represent the concerns and needs listed by the group. I look forward to continued co-operation and compliment the group on its presentation.

Like others, I welcome the group and thank it for its precise and relevant presentation. I concur with much of what was said with regard to those who suffer from polio, in particular the individual behind me, Donal K. Boyle, another Donegal man, who is not a man who would lie about waiting things to happen. Donal would be an ambassador for Donegal and one might meet him in any part of the country. The difficulties he has faced in life have not held him back. From that point of view, I concur with what was said. I also know a number of other polio sufferers in Donegal. The group's wish list is small and I and my Fianna Fáil colleagues will do what we can to try and address it.

I welcome the group. What comes through more than anything is that the members of the group are people who experienced life before the illness suffered in their childhood reoccurred. That life experience is clearly manifest, as demonstrated in the group's precise presentation which looks at what is practical to achieve. I congratulate it on that because this is something we do not often see. It is nice to see the issues being presented in this way. Would I be right to say that if the group has priorities, they centre on medical cards and heating? Again, I congratulate the group on its presentation.

I thank the members of the delegation for their very concise presentation which identifies the issues as they see them. We are very conscious of the difficulties with mobility and breathing. I was interested to hear that individuals must occasionally buy their own ventilators and ask the delegation to elaborate. Are ventilators not supplied by the HSE to those with breathing difficulties?

A number of individuals with similar muscular and breathing difficulties are represented by a number of other organisations. What links are there between those organisations and the post polio support group? Has the group considered the possibility of preparing a joint presentation on behalf of all the people affected? It appears that it would be difficult for a Minister to allocate medical cards to one specific group representing the over 55s without considering the broader range of others with similar difficulties. What does the group regard as the three priorities the Minister should consider pursuing?

I apologise for being late; I was attending another committee meeting.

I too welcome the group and acknowledge the correspondence received from people in my constituency. I am fortunate that I am of a generation which never suffered the experience of polio. The members of the delegation are an inspiration to us all in that they have not allowed that experience stand in their way. They have maximised their independence, on which they are to be lauded and complimented.

It is mentioned in the presentation that previous appearances before the committee led to a real and substantial improvement in the lives of members of the group. I was not previously a member of the committee; neither were some of my colleagues. However, we will focus on what we can do for the group. We will certainly make representations to the Minister on the medical card issue - probably the most significant - which I hope will have the desired result.

I welcome the group. I was a member of the committee in 2004 when it appeared previously. It is good to see it back again. I thank the delegates for their positive comments about the committee and it is nice to know that some of our efforts were effective. I also acknowledge the correspondence received.

I would like to receive a breakdown of the group's national membership because I think all its members are living in County Mayo, judging by the number of letters and telephone calls I received in recent weeks. There was no way I was going to miss this meeting.

Like other members, I accept the point made about medical cards, particularly where such a finite number of people is concerned and given the fact that the Minister for Health and Children indicated to the committee that she would be inclined to move in that direction. The committee would be able to endorse the request made. Given the age profile of the group and the reference to income levels, would many of its members automatically qualify for a medical card under current guidelines? I note the answer to that question is no. I just wanted to clarify the position.

I refer to correspondence I have received from members of the group. One person referred to being given a special bed, special boots and a scooter from the group. Like Deputy O'Hanlon, I would have thought that an application to the HSE would have resulted in the provision of those aids and appliances and funding over and above the sum of €400,000 the group receives by way of a grant. I ask the delegation to elaborate on that point. I note the group's numbers have increased since a delegation last appeared before the committee but that there has been no ongoing increase in the annual grant received. The committee might be able to make a recommendation in that regard to see if at least a cost of living increase could be obtained and there could be some acknowledgment of the increase in numbers.

I welcome the delegation from the Post Polio Support Group. I also acknowledge the large volume of correspondence I have received. I was surprised to learn that so many in my locality had contracted polio and were suffering the after-effects of post-polio syndrome. I do not agree with Deputy O'Hanlon that the Post Polio Support Group can be lumped with other groups. Based on the merits of the presentation, those with post-polio syndrome deserve to be treated as a special case in the same manner as those who contracted hepatitis C. The approach to the latter group set a precedent for treating groups on the basis of a specific condition. The research available would support taking this approach.

I am pleased to note cross-party agreement on the need to represent the interests of the Post Polio Support Group. It cannot have been easy in terms of logistics and transport for the delegation to travel to Leinster House today. I hope the meeting will prove meaningful and helpful. I thank the group for its clear, concise and eloquent presentation.

I welcome the Post Polio Support Group. Like everyone else, until I received a large number of letters in the past fortnight, I had not realised that so many members of the Post Polio Support Group resided in my constituency. The group made a good presentation and its demands are not excessive. We have entered a period of financial restraint because the Government's financial position is not as good as it has been. The group's request for medical cards should be considered and I am pleased that the Minister, having listened to its concerns, may make a decision on the matter in the short term. The provision of 300 additional medical cards would cover all members of the group aged between 55 and 62 years. This is not an extravagant request.

The Post Polio Support Group receives an annual grant of €400,000 from the Health Service Executive. What additional funding would be required to cover members' expenses for heating, aids and appliances and so forth? I am aware one never has enough money. Members from all sides will do all in their power to support the group.

I join my colleagues in thanking the delegation for its presentation. Although we will have a brief discussion when the delegation leaves the meeting, having listened to members, I suspect there will not be any difficulty in securing unanimous agreement to endorse the proposals the Post Polio Support Group has made.

In terms of the practical issues the group has raised, has the HSE issued a significant number of discretionary medical cards to its members? Is the group seeking medical cards for its members as of right?

What has been the experience of members of the Post Polio Support Group in accessing local authority grant aid, for example, mobility grants, housing adaptation grants and so forth?

Ms Joan Bradley

Medical cards are generally refused and we have no better access to them than anybody else. Sometimes we can get one for one person in the family but even that is not always the case.

Are concessions made on the basis of the condition?

Ms Joan Bradley

Hardly any concessions are made.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

Mr. Costello will comment on the provision of ventilators, about which Deputy O'Hanlon asked.

Mr. Jim Costello

Polio paralyses the muscles. Years ago persons may or may not have been on a ventilator. A small percentage of our members need to go on a ventilator because proper ventilation at night keeps one's blood gases at the right levels. It is somewhat technical, but if a person's carbon dioxide, oxygen and so on goes haywire, the person will go haywire. If the person is not ventilated properly at night, he or she cannot face the next day. I have lived on a ventilator for 50 years, and so have some experience in this regard. It is very important to try to keep people at work and in their homes - and this is what we are trying to do. If they are not ventilated properly at night, however, they cannot face the next day.

I know of two cases recently, where people are finding it a great problem to go out to work, because they are exhausted by 12 noon. At the moment the HSE only rents ventilators for people on medical cards. If one does not possess a medical card, one rents it from one of the companies, and it goes on the drugs payments scheme - and to me a ventilator is not a drug. One pays the first €90 per month, which is €1,080 per year. Most of our people are in the low income bracket. Because of being in hospital, perhaps for years, their education has been restricted and so on. It is deplorable and a disgrace. In most of the other countries that I know in Europe one gets a ventilator on the basis of need. One does not have to pay for it. I am not talking about sleep apnea, which is a different matter altogether. This is purely paralysis of the muscles because of post-polio complications. Some research among post-polio sufferers shows that sleep apnea is slightly more prevalent as well, but that is another issue.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

There were a couple of questions about the heating grant. The HSE will not contribute to that. We have to raise that from the fundraising moneys we bring in. The main problem with fund raising in 2008 is the forthcoming recession. Last year we got approximately €50,000 from corporate fundraising. The same people gave us €22,000 this year, and that is because of the recession. We will do our damnedest to get that heating grant, because it is so important. We go out into the byways, holding church and street collections and everything like that. We are doing our best because we have got to get that heating grant.

As regards the heating grant, will Mr. Hamilton please clarify whether that is to install improved heating systems or for operational or fuel purposes?

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

No, we have an arrangement with the ESB or the gas company. We had 175 people last year and we gave them a credit in the gas or the electricity company for heating in the amount of €200.

Ms Joan Bradley

We pay directly to the gas or the electric company.

Mr. Jim Costello

Intolerance of the cold is one of the biggest problems of post-polio syndrome, so heating is very important. Our people use, per capita, at least 25% more heat than the average person, or perhaps a third more, which is considerable, in view of the cost of oil today.

Ms Paula Lahiff

As regards whether the HSE supplies aids and appliances, these are on a very tight budget, too. One can go on a list and wait 18 months or two years for a scooter, which one really should have had, yesterday. We would supply the scooter, in such a case.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

Deputy Aylward asked how much we sought. It is very modest, an increase of just €60,000 per year, at the moment.

In terms of engagement with the local authorities as regards people adapting their homes, mobility grants and so on, has Mr. Hamilton any comment about experiences in that regard?

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

We contribute to the adaption of homes. The local authorities will give up to 90% and where we can, we make up the difference.

Are the delegates generally satisfied with the service their members receive from local authorities in this regard?

Ms Joan Bradley

One of the difficulties is that the service is not consistent throughout the State but depends on the resources of the particular local authority. In addition, the process is complicated and takes far too long to set in motion.

Ms Paula Lahiff

A recent change in the law means that eligibility for the scheme is now subject to a means test whereby applicants with a household income of greater than €30,000 will receive a lower entitlement. Therefore, in the case of an applicant in receipt of an invalidity grant of €10,000 per annum, his or her spouse can earn no more than €20,000 if the disabled person is not to be penalised. It is a low threshold.

Deputy O'Hanlon asked a question which was construed as meaning something else. It was a good and apt point from a former Minister for Health. His question was whether the delegates are working with other groups whose members may be seeking eligibility for the medical card on the basis of similar symptoms and difficulties. It is not a question of opposing the delegates' proposal but of finding a constructive way forward. Deputy O'Hanlon is seeking to be helpful because he foresees the Minister's response.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

Our membership is finite and there is no other disability group to which the same circumstances apply. All we seek is eligibility for the medical card for this finite group for some additional years in advance of the point at which members will become automatically entitled to it.

Mr. Jim Costello

We are simply trying to level the playing field for polio survivors. As Mr. Hamilton said, in 20 years' time we will all be over 70 years of age and therefore entitled to a medical card as a matter of course. Polio is a disease that mostly affects children between the ages of one and five years. We recovered from that, got on with our lives, found jobs and started families. Years later, however, we were hit by post-polio syndrome. It is difficult to pick oneself up twice. There are few other categories of disability which hit sufferers with a second debilitating and disabling condition in middle and late age.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

The majority of those affected contracted polio before vaccinations were available. This also sets us apart from other groups.

It is important to state clearly that a precedent exists in the form of the medical card provision for those infected by hepatitis C. I do not envisage any difficulties arising out of a technicality.

I merely sought to clarify Deputy O'Hanlon's point and to inquire about similar groups.

All the questions have been addressed. I thank the delegates for their presentation. They have issued a challenge by outlining how well the previous committee performed on their behalf. That certainly puts it up to us.

We have a benchmark against which to perform.

Mr. Hugh Hamilton

I thank the members for their questions. I also thank the clerk, who set everything up for us.

The joint committee went into private session at 4.20 p.m. and resumed in public session at 4.25 p.m.

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