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Joint Committee on Public Petitions and the Ombudsmen debate -
Thursday, 15 Jun 2023

Decisions on Public Petitions Received

We have two petitions for consideration today. The first is No. 9 of 2023, from Mr. Eoin O'Sullivan. It concerns the reform of Irish mental health services. It has three parts:

1. Without delay, counselling, psychotherapy and psychological services are deemed an eligible expense for tax relief in line with other health expenses. This reduces costs and gives more people the chance of benefiting from those services.

2. That the opening of the registers for counsellors and psychotherapists be completed with the urgency it deserves so that clients can have confidence in the services provided. At the moment anyone can call themselves a counsellor or psychotherapist and there is no standardisation of qualification across the different accrediting bodies.

3. That counselling and psychotherapy services become Vat exempt. While mental health services are recognised as essential services, they are also liable to a vat levy of 13.5%. Taking care of our mental health is as essential as taking care of our physical health.

The updated information we have is that the petitions case manager corresponded with the Department of Health, including in respect of mental health and older people, and the Department of Finance on 2 May 2023. Mr. Padráig Kelly, private secretary to the Minister of State responsible for mental health and older people, responded on the same day, saying, "None of the 3 issues come under Minister Butler's remit." Reminders were issued to the Department of Finance and the Department of Health on 23 May 2023, with a second set issued on 6 June 2023. We are still awaiting their replies. The petitioner feels they are deliberate in delaying their responses since the issues have already been brought to their attention via the open letter to the Ministers by the petitioner dated 31 March 2023.

On 12 June 2023, a response was received from the Minister for Health stating that due to the complexity of the registration, the work of the Counsellors and Psychotherapists Registration Board is ongoing and significantly more challenging than it is for registration boards for some of the more established professions. This is because of the different and complex pathways into these professions, the variety of titles used and the variety and number of courses and course providers. As such, it is not possible to give a timeframe concerning when the register of counsellors and psychotherapists will open. The committee recommends that the response from the Minister for Health be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days.

The next petition is No. 12 of 2023, from Mr. C.J. Gaffney, on the subject of justice and safety. This petition relates to a fishing vessel purchased in the Netherlands in 2007 by the petitioner and which, the petitioner states, is not suitable for fishing in Irish waters.

The petition includes two requests. They are calling on the Government to compensate them from the European Maritime Fisheries and Aquaculture Fund, EMFAF, which was offered at a meeting in Brussels and confirmed by the documents and radio interview by an Irish MEP and senior EU officials, considering the unique and unprecedented circumstances of the case. They have rights in this day and age. They are also asking for an official and impartial investigation in all aspects of the case on how such a dangerous vessel was certified as passing all stability criteria and continuously issued with valid sailing certification. This vessel was also accepted onto the Irish register and issued with an Irish fishing licence and, as such, they ask what was the role of the Irish Marine Survey Office in the handling of this case.

On further action taken to resolve the issue, the Commission consulted the DG MARK, ENTR, and SANCO on the internal market-consumer protection and there is no EU angle to help. DG Tron were extremely helpful but, because the vessel is under 24 m, it has no jurisdiction; but Ireland has. Fishing vessels are not covered within the Single Market legislation, hence EU acquis on consumer rights are not applicable in this unique case. They are currently changing this rule because of all the associated issues - safety, rights etc.

The petitioner has contacted the EU, the Irish Ombudsman and the EU petitions committee on different issues of the same case but they could not investigate. The petitioner was time barred in Germany and Holland and the Irish High Court ruled it had no jurisdiction leaving us nowhere to go and awarding substantial costs against us. Article 47 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights should have allowed us to be heard.

The updated information is that the petitions case manager corresponded with Mr. Mark Griffin, Secretary General, Department of the Agriculture, Food and Marine, on 2 May 2023 and received a reply on 7 June 2023. In the reply, Mr. Griffin recommended that the Department of Transport be contacted on matters in respect of the maritime safety directorate.

The committee recommends that: the correspondence from the Department of the Agriculture, Food and Marine be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days; and the Department of Transport be contacted as advised by the Department of the Agriculture, Food and Marine to seek the views of the Department in relation to the petitioner's concerns. Once we have received and examined both responses, the committee may decide to refer the petition to the EU Commissioner for maritime and fisheries to look at this issue at a European level and maybe close any loopholes for any future recipients.

This was discussed at our private meeting yesterday. I suppose our hands are tied at the minute until we get a reply from the petition and from the Department of Transport. It was suggested by Deputy Devlin yesterday that we send it to the Commissioner at that stage and if there are loopholes, we should at least tie up those loopholes so that no other person is caught in the same situation. This gentleman has been caught, by the looks of it, and has spent a lot of money trying to get this boat up to standard but has failed on all occasions. There have been other circumstances outside of that as well.

When we get the reply from the Department of Transport and the reply from the petition, I think we should send it on to the European Commission and see what it has to say. Is that agreed? Agreed.

That concludes our consideration of public petitions this afternoon.

I would like to invite members of the public to submit petitions via our on-line portal which is available at petitions.oireachtas.ie. A petition may be addressed to the Houses of the Oireachtas on a matter of general public concern or interest or an issue of public policy.

Is there any other business? Would members like to make any final comments?

No, Chair. I thank you for today.

On my own behalf and on behalf of the committee, I thank Karen, Barbara and Alex - I see Elma here as well - for all the work that they do on our behalf. It is much appreciated and makes our job easy. They probably get the-----

The brunt of it.

-----brunt of it when petitions are not being answered quickly enough. We appreciate all the work they do. There is considerable correspondence over and back between petitioners and the secretariat. On our behalf, I thank them very much.

The joint committee adjourned at 3.15 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 28 June 2023.
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