JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 3 Mar 2009

Planning and Development (Regional Planning Guidelines) Regulations 2009: Motion.

Chairman

On 17 February 2009 the Dáil referred the following motion to the committee for its consideration:

That Dáil Éireann approves the following Regulations in draft:

The Planning and Development (Regional Planning Guidelines) Regulations 2009, copies of which were laid in draft form before Dáil Éireann on 17 February 2009.

The Seanad made a similar order at the same time.

I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, and his officials to our meeting for the purpose of assisting our consideration of the proposal. I thank the Department for providing briefing material in advance which has been circulated with the text of the motion to members.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley)

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the opportunity to outline and discuss with the committee the objectives of the draft regional planning regulations which have been laid before the committee for consideration. These proposed regulations essentially set out a number of requirements for regional authorities in undertaking their statutory review and update of the 2004 regional planning guidelines, supplementing those requirements already cited in the Planning and Development Act 2000.

Regional planning guidelines were first adopted in March 2004 and set an overall strategic planning framework in each regional authority area for a 12-year period out to 2016. As envisaged under the Planning and Development Act 2000, the process of preparing and adopting regional planning guidelines has been essential in the context of creating an up-to-date hierarchy of plans from the national spatial strategy at national level, to the regional and city, county and local area plan levels, thus ensuring a coherent set of complementary planning and investment objectives that are achievable in line with the prevailing budgetary and fiscal context.

The first round of regional planning guidelines therefore marked a major milestone in the translation of the national spatial strategy principles into regional policies and priorities. The review and update of the guidelines provide the opportunity for all the relevant interests at national, regional and local levels to participate in the process of elaborating on how the principles and objectives of the national spatial strategy can be further reinforced and delivered throughout each of our regions. These regulations address two main issues, namely, setting the time for reporting on results of public consultation and specifying key national policy and environmental considerations. In this regard, preparation of the new regional planning guidelines is being informed by an initial consultation on an issues paper and thereafter on publication of the new draft guidelines.

The regulations provide for a reasonable timeframe within which this important public consultation should take place and within which the report on the submissions received must be submitted to the elected members of the regional authority towards adoption of the new guidelines. In addition, the regulations point to recent environmental assessment criteria which will apply to the regional planning guidelines for the first time, specifying that account must be taken of appropriate assessment under the EU habitats directive, the need for integration of the requirements of strategic environmental assessment and the need for consistency with draft guidelines on the planning system and flood risk management, which I published for consultation in September 2008 and which I will finalise shortly in addressing the issue of flood risk.

My Department has already reached agreement with the regional authority directors and the designated local authority managers for each region on a recommended approach and timeframe to have the review and update completed and adopted within each region by mid-2010. In light of this tight timeframe, on 19 December 2008, I signed the ministerial direction under section 21(3) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, instructing the regional authorities to commence the review and update of their regional planning guidelines. Members of the committee may have seen the public notification of issues papers by some of the regional authorities in recent weeks.

Planning authorities are required under the Planning and Development Act 2000 to take account of any regional planning guidelines in their area for a period of six years from the date of making those guidelines. In effect, this means the guidelines must be reviewed every six years, ensuring they are up to date and reflect the latest policy and data. Given the key role played by regional planning guidelines in supporting the implementation of the national spatial strategy, the next round of regional planning guidelines will set a strategic planning framework for development plans within each regional authority area over the 12 year period from 2010 to 2022. Regional planning guidelines are now an established feature of the legislative and policy framework for forward planning in Ireland, for example, influencing policies and objectives in city and county development plans and acting as an important policy context for making decisions by An Bord Pleanála in relation to its functions, including under the 2006 Strategic Infrastructure Act.

However, there is not just a legislative imperative to undertake a review of regional planning guidelines. Equally important are the substantial changes in the strategic planning and development context for the guidelines. In particular, we are faced with a challenging budgetary and fiscal policy outlook over the short to medium term that demands a highly prioritised and value for money based approach to future development and infrastructural requirements. Therefore, it is paramount that we have up to date, robust, clear and evidence based policies underpinning regional strategic planning and sustainable development.

While the existing round of regional planning guidelines has been successful in defining an overall vision for each regional authority area grounded in national spatial strategy principles, experience suggests the need for a more precise mechanism for translating national level estimates of future development into the guidelines and then to the city and county level plans that are aligned with national investment priorities. In this context, the national and regional population targets, which are prepared from time to time by my Department, are also prescribed within the regulations for the purposes of establishing projected population trends to inform settlement and housing strategy in addressing the proper planning and sustainable development of the region to which the regional planning guidelines relate.

The review and update will focus on the need for stronger, more specific and measurable guidelines based on appropriate evidence, setting clear and realistic objectives and targets for inclusion in the development plans of the planning authorities in each regional authority area that are specific in relation to future population, settlement strategy and development distribution and infrastructure investment priorities in line with the national development plan. These new RPGs will also promote the effective integration and co-ordination of development plans within an overall regional vision for development, supported by an enhanced legislative requirement for consistency between plans at different levels, as proposed in the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2008.

Planning at the local level must be supported and underpinned by effective regional-level policy and by implementation structures that work and report regularly, within an overall national spatial strategy framework, on progress made within the region in achieving regionally balanced and sustainable development. My Department will work closely with the regional authorities towards achieving these aims.

I thank the Chairman and committee members for their attention. I look forward to a full and detailed discussion on these issues.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I welcome the Minister and his officials to discuss the regional planning guidelines. We have had much debate and consultation over the years on the national spatial strategy and on regional guidelines. The national spatial strategy document has been largely ignored by the Government. We did not see a roll out of Government policy that reflected that strategy, be it decentralisation, hubs and gateways. I understand that there might be a better chance of this at regional level than at national level. Regional guidelines are one aspect of that.

The population of the eastern part of the country is growing substantially, while the western part of the country is static or is declining in many places. Is that view reflected in the Department's thinking? How will the Minister deal with his suggestion to provide more precise mechanisms to translate those national estimates of future developments into county and city development plans? What is the practice and what has the Minister got in mind?

When the last document was produced on the so-called national spatial strategy, there was much anxiety in the political sphere to ensure that if one location did not get a gateway status, it got a hub status instead. It ended up that neither the gateways nor the hubs got the attention they needed. The gateway innovation fund that was promised about a year ago no longer exists. Does the Minister know if it will be there again? Is he satisfied that the regional structures in place are sufficiently robust to make a difference in rolling out objectives of the Department on these planning issues? The only structure that I can see making a difference is Shannon Development. When quangos and other organisations visit local authority areas to discuss issues relating to jobs, roads, infrastructure, and gas or electricity connection and so on, they have the best will in the world, but they do not seem to have the structure to compel those organisations to implement change. People in many parts of the country are crying out for investment, but are not in a position to avail of investment because various pieces of the jigsaw are not in place because of the lack of proper enforcement of regional planning guidelines.

Can the Minister outline what he meant by evidence based planning? He stated that we needed to focus on the need for stronger, more specific and measurable guidelines based on appropriate evidence. What does he mean by that in practice?

The Minister should include the objectives of the water framework directive in any regional guidelines, because this is a serious issue that the Department must confront by 2015. I know that the Department got an increase in funding for 2009, which is very welcome. However, it does not go anywhere towards ensuring that we meet our objectives and eliminate the possibility of fines for the contamination of our ground water.

In fighting for funds in 2010 would it help the Minister if he were to include this objective in his regional planning guidelines, and if there was a responsibility on the Department of Finance then to support his objectives? Otherwise, he will end up paying €300 million or €400 million in fines, which would be a waste of money.

Chairman

Deputies McCormack, O'Sullivan, Tuffy and Senator Cannon have indicated. I will take contributions from three members and then we will go to the Minister.

Deputy John Gormley

I have an appointment just after 5 p.m.

Chairman

I think we will be fine. I will call Deputies McCormack, O'Sullivan and Tuffy.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

How do we ensure there is consistency of application from one local authority to another of the draft planning regulations for regions? What directives have local authorities received in terms of sustainable rural development in dealing with applications along national primary roads, or more so in our case, national secondary roads? In west Galway we do not have any national primary roads. Is there consistency between local authorities? I refer, for example, to the N59, which goes through Galway and Mayo. Is there consistency of application of the directive in question, or have local authorities got directives about planning guidelines along national secondary routes?

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

I welcome the Minister and thank him for his presentation. I welcome the guidelines and the fact that we are guided down the right road. I accept that it must be done on a regional basis rather than nationally as not all areas of the country are the same when it comes to planning issues.

I have concerns about two areas. The first relates to population decline in rural areas and surveys have been carried out in that regard. For instance, between 1996 and 2006 the number of young people between the ages of 25 and 29 living in rural areas dropped from 400,000 to 100,000. Those are facts and the surveys back them up. I come from a rural area and the issue is of major concern to me. I have seen what is happening at first hand in recent years.

Any regulations or guidelines that will be put in place should have regard to those facts. I accept the Department may be constrained in financial terms, as all Departments are currently, but we will have to find funding for smaller rural settlements to get infrastructure such as water and sewerage schemes in place. We are fairly up to speed with water schemes but the sewerage scheme side of things needs improvement.

The guidelines that were put in place on house design are working to a certain extent. I would welcome guidelines on house design, especially in country areas where in the past, monstrosities have been erected that take from the natural beauty and do nothing for the countryside. There are many people qualified in house design and properly designed houses can be placed in any part of the country without taking from the surrounding area. I would like to see more measures taken along that line. We should emphasise quality of house design that will not impact negatively on scenic rural areas. I welcome the provision of guidelines and hope we get them right, because we only get one chance at them.

Chairman

We will continue with questions for the moment.

Deputy Joanna Tuffy

The Minister stated in his presentation:

The process of preparing and adopting regional planning guidelines has been essential in the context of creating an up-to-date hierarchy of plans from the national spatial strategy at national level, to the regional and city, county and local area plan levels, thus ensuring a coherent set of complementary planning and investment objectives that are achievable in line with the prevailing budgetary and fiscal context.

Has this happened? Do the regional planning guidelines and the national spatial strategy have any teeth? They do not appear to, and the Minister is on record as saying they do not. Therefore, he does not really believe what he stated in his presentation.

I had the opportunity to attend a committee once, or at most twice, on the greater Dublin regional planning guidelines some years ago and discovered that local councils can ignore the guidelines when it comes to making their city or county development plans. It states in the guidelines that "councillors should have regard to" certain matters, but they can totally disregard these and in practice do so. As a result there is much bad planning. Not very long ago, there was an attempt to rezone land in my local authority area, against the advice of the county manager, that would have led to sprawl in a rural area. Thankfully, the proposal did not go through, but it is being put forward again. We will continue to see such things happen until we have stronger legislation. Has the Minister any comment to make on his plans in that regard?

There is a provision for planning guidelines to be reviewed every six years, but under the same legislation the plans are made for a 12-year period. If they must be reviewed every six years, should we not just make the plans for a six-year period? Why is this not done automatically so there is no need for an order?

The Minister raised the issues I am raising with regard to the problems with our planning legislation. We have talked about the problem with the words "have regard to". It would not be good enough to replace those words with "should be in compliance with" because councillors would still ignore that. This might also cause a problem with regard to court cases or injunctions.

Deputy John Gormley

What is the Deputy's suggestion?

Deputy Joanna Tuffy

I do not know. I am not a barrister or a legal draftsperson. However, there must be strong planning legislation. We cannot keep doing business as we have been doing it. We are coming to a time when we must decide to make radical changes. Part of the reason we are in the current economic mess is because of our planning laws and land speculation. The Government brought in guidelines about higher densities and that fuelled the building of huge numbers of apartments, many of which were never sold and are still vacant. What will be done about that?

Does the Minister intend to introduce a new, comprehensive planning Act that will ensure we no longer have urban sprawl and will limit councillors' powers? I am all for councillors having the democratic power to make decisions relating to zoning, but there must be some restrictions if we are not to make the mistakes we made during recent years.

Deputy Hogan is correct in what he stated on guidelines. I would have thought guidelines were too broad and that regional planning was much more specific and would relate to county development plans and planning permission. The guidelines should take into account the possibility of river basin management plans. What stage are these at? At what stage is flood hazard mapping?

Senator Ciaran Cannon

I welcome the Minister and thank him for his presentation. It is extremely important that each regional plan is up to date and responds to demands within each region on a pro-active basis. For example, if we had drawn up a plan two years ago we would have been deciding how to cope with increased demand for economic activity throughout the nation. At present we should be considering a plan that encourages and fosters economic development throughout the country. We need to be able to react very quickly to changing economic environments. The contemporary and up-to-date nature of each plan is very important and should be stressed in assessing how relevant it is to the Ireland of 2009 and how quickly it can react over the years to changing circumstances.

As a councillor in Galway I had many experiences of dealing with people who wanted to establish rural enterprises, principally in east Galway, an area which suffered significant population decline over recent years. My experience of dealing with these people and working within the guidelines as laid down at national and local government level was that rural enterprise was tolerated rather than encouraged. We must be very pro-active in addressing this in our regional guidelines. Perhaps we need more emphasis on this in the west of Ireland where there is potential and scope for this type of development.

A very close friend of mine has a company called Inspire Nation which advises local and national governments throughout the world on best practice on urban regeneration, planning and long-term infrastructural development. He runs this business on his laptop from his kitchen in Craughwell, County Galway. I am convinced that if tomorrow morning he sought to expand the business and take on two or three people to help him in administrative roles he would find it difficult to do so under the guidelines that pertain in County Galway. I do not know about regional level.

There is a huge emphasis on moving this type of rural enterprise to towns such as Loughrea and Athenry. I wonder how sustainable this is in the long term. My brother lived in Cheshire for a number of years. He has been in Australia for the past two years. I used to visit him quite regularly in Cheshire and I was amazed at the number of farmsteads in the rural Cheshire countryside using buildings no longer in use for farming for cottage industries such as artisan food production and web-based industries. They created employment in rural areas which otherwise might not have happened. What can we do at regional planning level to emphasise that this type of development should be supported and encouraged rather than simply tolerated?

The national spatial strategy provides that in setting out its county development plan, each local authority should set out a tiered settlement centre structure throughout the county. I raised this matter with the head of An Bord Pleanála when he presented his annual report last year. My experience is that there is a blatant disregard in An Bord Pleanála at present for County Galway's settlement centre strategy. In preparing the most recent development plan and the one undergoing review at present, the professional planners in County Galway set out a definite tier of settlement centres ranging from our provincial towns all the way down to small villages which perhaps accommodate only 20 or 30 houses. The reason these villages were chosen was to encourage and move population and economic development into areas where we were losing teachers and where schools and shops were closing down.

An Bord Pleanála seems, for some strange reason, to make decisions that result in a problem common to all smaller settlement centres in County Galway. I can cite four cases in four different settlement centres in which applications granted by Galway County Council that complied with the guidelines of the county development plan and national spatial strategy were refused permission by An Bord Pleanála because there were no municipal sewage treatment facilities available. If we are to wait for municipal sewage treatment facilities to be installed in villages of 30 or 40 people before any development can occur, the villages will be ghost villages for the foreseeable future. We cannot even install sewage treatment facilities in the major towns in County Galway, never mind the villages. It is, therefore, very important that a clear and unambiguous message be sent to An Bord Pleanála that it is a matter of national and local planning policy which should not be ridden over roughshod by people who decide they know better than us.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I welcome the Minister and his officials and compliment the Minister on his presentation. I welcome the regional planning guidelines for each regional authority area. The framework covers a period of 12 years up to 2016. It is good to see us planning ahead as this is very important.

I was worried for a long time over the massive population explosion in the eastern part of my county when it comprised but one constituency. I am sure the Minister knows all about this. Unfortunately, the people in question have been suffering enormously. As I stated on another occasion, the constituency was always divided in three and I never had to represent the part in question. We received many representations from the people because of the need for schools. It is very important when planners and councillors are planning that they do not rezone for housing estate after housing estate and forget completely about the other facilities required, including schools, sports facilities and community centres. Unfortunately this is what happened in the area to which I refer.

In my part of the county, there has been no development at all, to which matter Senator Cannon referred. There was a massive need for schools in one part of County Meath and schools were closing in the other. The settlements in my part of the county were too small to have any small sewerage or water scheme.

In Athboy in my constituency, very many sewerage schemes have been put in place. Many small developers who own land, and local people, want to build a few houses and are now being told by the council officials and planners that they cannot be given planning permission because there is no water. That is desperate. In future, when money is being invested in any town for a sewerage scheme, it should be ensured that there is enough water, or vice versa. It is deplorable that council officials and planners allow what I describe to happen.

There are many points we could make but we should stress that infrastructure is very important. My constituency is part of the district of a regional authority including Meath, Dublin, Wicklow and Kildare. Unfortunately, the part of my constituency that I represent and part of the new constituency will border the BMW region, which includes Deputy Bannon's constituency. Deputy Fitzpatrick will be in the same position as me. Deputy Bannon will back me up in stating we are not aligned to east Meath, Dublin, Wicklow or parts of Kildare. I have fought this issue as part of the council when the authorities were being set up, but I was told time and again by the officials that one cannot divide a county. I plead with the Minister to look again at that situation because my area is more aligned to Cavan, Westmeath or Longford. We are suffering because we are in a completely different area from Laytown, Bettystown, Dunboyne and so on.

Chairman

At this stage I will call on the Minister.

Deputy John Gormley

I started by taking comprehensive notes while Deputy Hogan was speaking and fewer notes as the meeting progressed to finally just scribbles at the end. I hope I will be forgiven if I omit anything in which case I am sure Deputies will remind me. Many common themes were raised.

Deputy Hogan referred to evidence based planning. Regional planning guidelines are based on population increases and projections. Likewise one has to look at the regional planning guidelines and the development plan and take the best advice from experienced planners. That is commonsense and is what evidence based planning is about.

Several Deputies, including Deputy Tuffy, referred to "Having regard to" and "complying with". As I have said on several occasions the whole idea behind the new planning legislation which I will introduce before the summer is to ensure just that. The local authorities when making these plans must comply and be consistent with the regulations. We have to find a legal formulation but I can assure Members it will be a vast improvement on what is currently the case. At the moment very often the authorities ignore the guidelines and we have had examples of that in the past. That is the idea behind the new legislation. It will be comprehensive and radical and I am sure the Deputy will support it. In the past I have had demands to introduce legislation on spending limits from Deputy Ciarán Lynch and when I did it, it was not good enough. However, we will see what happens in that regard.

A whole series of questions were raised about the national spatial strategy. It is being updated to reflect current economic trends and it is hoped to have it completed before the summer. We are working on several issues simultaneously plus the new legislation. This will also feed into the RPGs review.

Deputies Hogan and Brady referred to the population increase on the eastern seaboard. The area from Dublin to Laytown and Bettystown — a stretch I know very well — reminds me of the Ruhr Valley, where I lived in the late 1970s, in the sense that it has been urbanised and there is no gap. That is a difficulty and there are reasons for it. The same applies if one travels in the opposite direction from Dublin to Gorey. A valid point made by Deputy Tuffy is that many of the problems we now witness are due to bad planning. Many Dublin people have moved to Gorey. At present there are huge rates of unemployment and total car dependency in many cases. Overall it is a bad scenario. The idea behind good planning is to incentivise proper economic development. This is why I have introduced the range of measures that have been mentioned. I am not just talking about the flooding guidelines, but residential guidelines as well. When people move into these towns and villages, they should be close to public transport and amenities such as schools, crèches and so on. That is the idea behind good planning and it makes economic sense as well.

The point has been made by several Deputies that we must take the water issue into account, which includes water distribution and the water framework directive. I see the sense in that and we are working towards it. Deputy Brady's point is another example of bad planning. The idea behind good planning is integration so that people begin to understand that these things must fit together. Authorities too often go ahead with one project that has a detrimental effect on another project, which does not make any sense.

It is clear that the gateway innovation fund has been deferred. It was spoken about when the country was doing well economically.

Deputy Phil Hogan

It is in the programme for Government.

Deputy John Gormley

Yes it is, and it is quite amazing what has happened in such a short space of time. We had a global economic downturn.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We had a global one, that is right.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

That is the line.

Deputy John Gormley

I was at a Council meeting of environment Ministers yesterday, and I can assure the Deputies that we are not alone. Everybody across Europe is affected by this, so it is a very serious situation. Senator Cannon made the point that we had a sort of free for all during the good times, but we must now plan properly and ensure that our planning system allows us to avail of the upturn when it comes.

Deputy O'Sullivan spoke about the population decline in rural areas. He spoke about the need for the RPGs to reverse the declining trends, and how we need to grow the regions with a coherent strategy. That is true. The rural housing guidelines from 2005 still apply. The decline in the rural population has occurred over a long period, but we could go into all sorts of reasons for that. Why is that the case? The Deputy referred to young people, many of whom want to go to cities. That seems to be the trend.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

That is not the case. If they are allowed to live in the country, that is where they will live. That is a proven fact. We can do another survey on that. We heard much about rural renewal, but we have done nothing about it. Until someone like the Minister takes this on board, we will not have young people living in the country again. We need to get something out there for them. They need to be given an opportunity to live there, such as a house located where they want to live. Senator Cuffe pointed out that they can operate small businesses from these locations. I meant to say Senator Cannon.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I did not know he joined the Green Party.

Deputy John Gormley

He might yet. The regional planning guidelines will address the idea of rural business development, which is absolutely essential. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the Western Development Commission are working on a rural, community and economic vision for the next ten to 15 years and that will be helpful.

On the question of An Bord Pleanála ignoring things, as the Senator is aware that body is statutorily independent and I cannot get involved in individual cases. I hope he understands my position. He referred to Cheshire also, which is interesting. The one thing about England and Wales is that their settlement patterns are quite strict. It shows that one can combine good planning and have the type of enterprise culture the Senator wants to see incentivised in this country. I am a great admirer of the planning culture in Britain. I think they have got it right in many cases. They have got things wrong and we went through those issues. I attended another committee on retail developments on the edge of towns and they have made the same mistakes as we have in that regard, but in terms of planning for rural communities they have done extremely well.

A number of members, including Deputy McCormack, inquired about how the new planning legislation would ensure the consistency the members consider is necessary between regional and local priorities and between local authorities. I accept that is absolutely essential. New planning on roads guidance is being prepared by the Department, the National Roads Authority and the Department of Transport. It will go out to public consultation before the summer. That addresses one of the questions asked by Deputy McCormack.

Deputy Tuffy inquired about flood hazard mapping, which I think is absolutely essential. That is being prepared by the OPW. Its studies are already being made available to local authorities. That information is available on its website, www.floodmaps.ie, and more comprehensive information is being prepared at all stages.

I think I have dealt with most of the issues. I am trying to see if there is anything I have left out. The reform of the water services investment programme is ongoing in my Department. We are looking again at how to address the issue. The Athboy situation does not make any sense.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I thank the Minister for his replies. I have one observation to make. We are very poor at village design. Many houses were built in villages through the years and there are no decent village centres. We are relying on the old village centre network for modern estates and they are completely out of synch. The regional planning guidelines should include an insistence on local authority development plans having a meaningful centre for communities to get their basic services. I am a strong supporter of the local area plan system in order to tease out detailed planning issues.

Currently, An Bord Pleanála is an operating disaster. A total of 5,000 cases are before it and 50% of those are outside the objective timescale of 18 weeks. Will the Minister advise whether there is a resourcing issue? A level of incompetence is apparent that is holding up an enormous amount of activity at a time when we badly need it. I urge the Minister to examine the manner in which An Bord Pleanála is resourced and its efficiency and effectiveness. I urge him to also consider a statutory time limit for making decisions. If a local authority can make a preliminary finding on a planning application in eight weeks, as it is obliged to do, a limit of 18 weeks for An Bord Pleanála is not bad, unless an oral hearing is involved. I would understand a delay in that case, but a delay for any other reason is scandalous. It is scandalous the amount of development held up by An Bord Pleanála currently.

Deputy John Gormley

The Deputy has raised two important issues, first of which is the question of villages. We have seen modern housing estates tacked on to villages and small towns throughout the country. Not only do such developments not fit visually in many cases, but many of those estates remain uncompleted and——

Deputy Phil Hogan

That is why I am concerned about the evidence-based approach, particularly when we rely on the same professional planners mentioned by the Minister. They are the same people who will jump on us when it comes to village design.

Deputy John Gormley

The preparation of regional planning guidelines and development plans must be thorough. We could get into debate now on who is responsible for this, whether the planners or the councillors.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I am talking about the people mentioned by the Minister, the professional planners drawing up evidence-based solutions.

Deputy John Gormley

Does the Deputy think they are responsible for the housing estates?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Minister said he relies on those people to implement regional planning guidelines. I am talking about village centres. I know land zoning is a fixation of the Minister's, but the zoning of land does not mean planning permission is granted. Although the land is zoned in good faith, there are always some situations nobody could stand over. The Minister is saying there are professional planners on whom he relies for evidence-based solutions under the regional planning guidelines, but these same people have not contributed to village design. That is my point.

Deputy John Gormley

The An Bord Pleanála situation is important. There are approximately 2,500 appeals outstanding and I am trying to get through those. I will address the issue in two ways. First, I want to ensure we have qualified people working on this, perhaps the same people referred to by the Deputy, who can move from the local authorities into An Bord Pleanála. Due to the number of applications having decreased recently, these people can move to An Bord Pleanála and work on the backlog.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The county managers tell us the Minister has authorised them to do other work on the regional planning guidelines. They cannot do everything.

Deputy John Gormley

I am telling the Deputy now that our intention is to move them into An Bord Pleanála to deal with the backlog.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Fair enough.

Deputy John Gormley

We also plan to reduce the quorum required in the case of smaller applications. Currently, the quorum required is three people, but this could be reduced to two for smaller applications. This would mean we could speed up the processing of those applications. I hope these two proposals will deal with the issue now we have the opportunity to deal with the backlog due to the fall in the level of applications as a result of the lack of economic activity.

Deputy Joanna Tuffy

Deputy Johnny Brady mentioned the need to tie infrastructure in with development. The planning and development legislation dealing with strategic development zones has been very effective. Under section 218 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, it is possible to tie developers down to providing infrastructure along with housing developments. This has happened and the legislation has been proved to work.

The Minister is seeking a formula that works. Perhaps he should make more areas into strategic development zones or apply the same type of wording to legislation that applies to other lands zoned in the Planning and Development Act. I make this suggestion because the wording in section 218 seems to have worked and was upheld when developers appealed to An Bord Pleanála, for example in the case of Adamstown.

I defended my position as a councillor in supporting the Adamstown strategic development zone plan, which was controversial at the time. The land had been zoned before I became a councillor and, therefore, the choice was to do things the old way or do them the new way under the strategic development zone guidelines. I feel very disappointed that while train stations and schools have been built, only a few hundred houses are occupied as it stands and, as Deputy Hogan stated, the quality of the design is not up to scratch. This housing backs onto the green of an existing housing estate and it is a hotchpotch of various building heights and levels. It is not a nice landscape to look at. The county managers state they do not have the powers to make the architects design properly. We need to legislate for better design.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I fully support what Deputy Hogan stated regarding our villages and small towns. It really annoys me, and I see in many area development plans, that housing estates are placed at one end of a town instead of starting in the middle and branching out, which was the old policy. This seems to have changed. Will the Minister examine this? Some of our beautiful villages have been destroyed by big estates. The town or village itself is dying and it is sad to see this happening.

Chairman

I have two comments following what Deputy Brady stated. In my county, 11 villages have no sewerage schemes. At present, if somebody applies for planning permission in the village core, which is what we would like, he or she must put in a septic tank which requires half an acre. The only place in a village where one can place large-scale housing developments is out at the edge. A doughnut is being created because there is no sewerage scheme in the village core. The villages would love to open up five acres in back land development but they cannot because there is no sewerage scheme. The lack of sewerage schemes is the reason the village core is faltering.

In his statement, the Minister stated the regional development plans are an important policy context for An Bord Pleanála to make decisions. We know An Bord Pleanála is not bound by county development plans. How bound is it by regional plans? I know it is probably bound by the national spatial strategy.

Following on from Deputy Christy O'Sullivan's point, when new planning and development legislation is introduced it deals with planning and sustainable development, and this is physical development. However, social issues are part of planning issues and all one has to do is examine the Garda reports every year. In rural areas with a lower population density, crime rates are lower. Crime rates are higher per capita in urban areas with a greater density of people. We should not force people from rural areas into urban areas where there are more social problems. The planning system utterly overlooks the social impact on people’s lives. It is absent. A local authority has no authority to consider these issues at present. Can something be done about this? We started with planning development and now we have planning and sustainable development. However, sustainable development should be enhanced to include issues such as the social well-being of the inhabitants.

Deputy John Gormley

An Bord Pleanála must have regard to the regional planning guidelines. We can examine this in the context of the forthcoming legislation. The question of design and good architectural practice has been raised. In recent months we have been working on a new architectural policy which is based not only on the concept of good design but also on sustainability. I hope to publish this shortly and it will inform architectural policy throughout the country. There is no question that it left a lot to be desired. Much of what was built along the quays during the 1990s has degraded and has not lasted. Much of it is down at heel and it leads to a bad atmosphere. It is essential that we get it right from the very start and we will do so. There will be much better quality as a result of this policy.

With regard to the Chairman's question on social integration, what has happened in many of these areas is that there are simply no facilities. Good planning is about ensuring people have good public transport, can walk places and have children's playing areas, crèches, schools, and so on. The question of why it was necessary to build on the outskirts of settlements because of the lack of sewage treatment facilities is significant. Generally, we have a problem with septic tanks and the lack of facilities for treating water and sewage. We are trying to address this and have increased the budget in this regard quite substantially in spite of the very bad economic circumstances. We are trying to address the issues as quickly as we can but, undoubtedly, what the Chairman is saying is correct.

Chairman

We have concluded our discussion. I thank the Minister and his officials for attending and assisting in our consideration of the regulations. Is the motion agreed? Agreed.