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Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities debate -
Wednesday, 28 Jun 1978

Social Insurance Schemes for Self-Employed Persons and their Families Moving Within the Community.

The first report refers to the Commission's proposals for two Council regulations on the extension of social security schemes to the self-employed. This is part of the attempt by the Commission to put forward proposals to secure freedom of movement for workers. This has been achieved in the area of the employed worker and in the area of social security.

Paragraph 2 of our draft report refers to the fact that, under article 51 of the EEC Treaty, measures have been adopted in the field of social security providing for workers and their families (a) the aggregation of insurance periods and periods treated as such, and (b) payment of benefit in all the Community's territory. The Commission now wish to take a further step to co-ordinate the social security schemes of the Member States for self-employed persons because this is part of the progress towards greater freedom of movement. The Commission also hope that the Council will adopt these proposals by the end of the year, but the Sub-Committee members are unable to get very accurate information about when the Council are likely to take a decision on this proposal.

In paragraph 4, we examine the Commission's proposals. The purpose of the Council Regulations dealing with the security of migrant workers is to ensure that nationals of a Member State working in another Member State will come under social security cover in the same way as nationals of the country of employment, that the periods of insurance in different Member States may be combined in determining eligibility for social security benefits, and that social security benefits may be received anywhere within the Community. That is the position at the moment for the employed worker and the object of the Commission's proposals is to extend the system to self-employed persons in so far as they are covered by the national social security systems. This scheme depends on there being cover for self-employed persons in the national countries. Ireland is in a different position from the other countries of the Community in that our social security schemes do not extend to self-employed persons.

Paragraph 5 analyses the scope of the extension of the cover proposed which would ensure for self-employed persons that they will have equality of treatment with nationals under the domestic legislation so that they would have the benefit of existing schemes.

In paragraph 6 we summarise the implications for Ireland. The Commission proposals are designed to adapt the EEC regulations dealing with employed persons so as to apply them to self-employed persons and their families moving within the European Community. The extent to which this would put self-employed persons in the same position as employed persons in the matter of social security would depend on the scope of the social security provision for self-employed persons in the various Member States. In Ireland self-employed persons are not as yet covered by the social insurance system, with the result that the Commission proposals would not have any effect in relation to the normal benefits of that system—for example, sickness and maternity cash benefits, invalidity benefit, old age benefit, survivor's benefit, occupational injuries benefit, death grant and unemployment benefit. We note, however, that the general scheme of children's allowances applies to both employed persons and self-employed persons in Ireland so that if the Commission proposals are adopted then self-employed persons moving from Ireland to other Member States and those of other Member States moving to Ireland would have their entitlement to children's allowances schemes preserved under this proposal.

As far as health services are concerned, the EEC regulations on social security for migrant workers provide that persons insured under our Social Welfare Acts, including persons in receipt of a contributory social welfare pension and their dependants, are entitled when in another EEC country to medical attention on the same basis as a worker of that country. Reciprocally, their workers and dependants are entitled when in Ireland to the full range of Irish health services free of charge. The cost of the services is a charge on the social insurance institution of the worker. The present Commission's proposals would extend the arrangements which apply to the employed workers to the self-employed. In the case of Ireland that would include a person who is or has pursued a professional or trade activity not involving a contract of service, who has full or limited eligibility under the Health Act, 1970, and that person would get reciprocal rights in another Member State.

At paragraph 8 we propose the views of the Joint Committee on these proposals and we note that the EEC Treaty gives the right to self-employed persons who are nationals of a Member State to take up and pursue their activities in another Member State. It is essential to the free movement and right of establishment that they be entitled to do this. We note that progress has been made in ensuring that this right can be effectively exercised by the adoption of Community legislation providing for the recognition of qualifications. For example, we had the recognition of the qualifications of doctors. We had, first of all, statutory instruments and then the Medical Practitioners Act recognising the qualifications of nationals of other Member States. In the circumstances we say that it seems to the Joint Committee a logical step to co-ordinate a Member State's social security schemes applicable to the self-employed. Generally speaking, the Commission's proposals for such co-ordination seem reasonable.

We note, in paragraph 9, that in all the Member States, except Ireland, social insurance cover is provided to a greater or lesser degree for self-employed persons. The adoption of the proposed regulation would not impose an obligation on Ireland to extend our social insurance system to the self-employed. This is important and is brought out clearly in our report, that it is only a co-ordinating measure; it will not require us in Ireland to extend social security to the self-employed. However, we also note that this is in fact under active consideration here. There is the Discussion Paper on Social Insurance for the Self-Employed, which was published by the Government and this looks at the situation in other Member States and considers the rather complex issues which are raised in examining proposals to extend social security benefits to the self-employed.

In paragraph 10 we refer to the complexity of these issues. In considering the proposals the Committee was assisted both by representatives of the Federated Union of Employers and also by Mr. Brendan Dowling of the Economic and Social Research Institute who was very helpful to members of the Sub-Committee in examining the implications of the proposals of the discussion paper and of any proposal to extend social insurance to the self-employed. He pointed out that many self-employed persons would see their compulsory inclusion in a social insurance scheme merely as the imposition of a tax. That is what we have concluded at paragraph 10. Paragraph 11 acknowledges the assistance we received from the FUE and from Mr. Brendan Dowling.

The view of the members of the Sub-Committee, as I understand it, was that this proposal, because it is a co-ordination measure, will not have any very immediate dramatic effects here; it is being proposed at Community level at a time when we are the only country that has not got an extension of our full range of social security benefits to the self-employed. However, there is a discussion paper on this and this measure would be directly relevant to any proposals that were adopted by Ireland.

I note in paragraph 10 that a point of view was put to the Sub-Committee that many self-employed persons would see their compulsory inclusion in a social insurance scheme merely as the imposition of a tax. I am afraid that is how most self-employed people would see it. The erosion of the differentials between social insurance and social assistance benefits in a lot of cases is such that if a self-employed person falls on hard times provision is made there that he will get as much as another person paying insurance. With the practice as it operates in Ireland, the bringing of more self-employed people into the social insurance scheme, would, I suggest, in the view of the majority of self-employed people, be seen as the imposition of a further tax. Having said that I should like to ask Senator Robinson if the Sub-Committee looked at the question of the provision of pensions for self-employed people, at the existence of pension schemes that some self-employed people avail themselves of and did the Sub-Committee recommend that this matter be looked at further?

Certainly this was discussed briefly, particularly with Mr. Brendan Dowling and members of the Sub-Committee. Our primary attention was being directed at what would be the effect of the European Community measure, and it was felt that we neither had the resources nor was it really our function to look in great depth at the Discussion Paper on the possible extension of social security to the self-employed. It was felt that we had to look at what would be the impact of the European Community measure; that it was a co-ordinating measure, depending on what the position was in each of the Member States; that we are to some extent different from the other Member States in that we do not have an extension, that it is only children's allowances and that, if persons are eligible under the 1970 Act, they would be affected by this measure. It would be a co-ordinating measure as far as Ireland is concerned. Certainly the viewpoint put forward by Deputy McCreevy was expressed. The other view was also expressed—and we have referred to that—and some members of the Sub-Committee were convinced that there are self-employed persons who need and who would welcome the protection of social insurance. We go on to say that the Joint Committee believe therefore that there should be a scheme but on the whole would favour it including provision either for voluntary coverage or for contracting out. That is not coming down very definitely. I think that is because members of the Sub-Committee would not have had the resources to examine fully what kind of scheme we should have here. We were more examining the implications of this European Community measure on the present state in Ireland.

The point made was that the measure would have no adverse effects for us, that it would provide for certain people—especially the reciprocal arrangement when other nationals come here—and then in relation to certain limited areas would provide benefit for people from here going to other EEC countries. There was no problem with it in that respect.

May I have a proposer for the adoption of the report?

I propose the adoption of the report.

I second that proposal.

Paragraphs 1 to 11, inclusive, agreed to.

Draft Report agreed to.

Ordered: To report accordingly.

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