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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT debate -
Wednesday, 31 May 2006

Transport Planning: Presentation

The next item is a discussion on transport planning with representatives of the National Transport Users' Association. I welcome Mr. Tom Newton, Professor Val Rice and Mr. Anthony Brophy from the National Transport Users' Association.

I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. I remind members of the parliamentary practice that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

The information supplied by Mr. Newton has been circulated and he will make a brief presentation. Some members of the committee, some of whom had to leave the meeting early, asked me to put to a number of questions to the representatives. One question they requested I ask Mr. Newton was to inquire as to the number of members in his group.

Mr. Tom Newton

We have 20 in the group.

That is 20 members.

Mr. Newton

Some 20 people organised the group and those who joined afterwards are associate members.

How many associate members are in the association?

Mr. Newton

Most of them are bus drivers or taxi drivers.

How many members are in the association? This question was raised by two members of the committee, who had to leave the meeting early, and I put this question to Mr. Newton on their behalf. They want to know who the association represents. Does it represent 20 individuals or is it the representative of a much wider group?

Mr. Newton

We have a much wider group.

Yet you said your group has only 20 members.

Mr. Newton

The ruling body is made up of 20. We are a circle organisation.

Can you supply us with a full list of the members of your association? Will you forward it to the clerk to the committee?

Mr. Newton

I cannot give it to the Chairman now but I will forward it to him.

If Mr. Newton could do that, it would be of great benefit to the members who raised this question with me. On receipt of that information, we will know who the association represents. That question was raised with me and I said that I would raise it with Mr. Newton at the commencement of his presentation. I invite you to make a brief presentation.

Mr. Newton

I apologise on behalf of one of our members who could not be here due to a death in his family. I thank Ms Burke and Mr. Prunty of the committee secretariat for their help.

I am the founder of the National Transport Users' Association which was set up in 1990. I have been involved in the area of transport for a long time and was involved in the first negotiations by accident with the help of Mr. P. Lalor and the then Minister, Mr. Albert Reynolds. I have been involved in initiatives in this area ever since and have seen many of my initiatives come to fruition in some form or other. They are nearly always turned down on being first presented but subsequently are taken on board in some form. I received a welcome reply to my proposals from the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, last October. He informed me that my views were being taken into account. When Transport 21 came on stream, I noted it embodied many of my ideas. The main difference between our plan and Transport 21 was the matter of location.

We propose linking up the abundance of rail in the docklands, by inserting a missing link rail. Under Transport 21 the same link is proposed but it is planned to extend the link to St. Stephen's Green, which is a little more than a mile further involving an extra cost of €4 billion. The value lost in that respect will double every ten years. A country of this size could not sustain a loss of that magnitude. Transport involves more than merely a means of getting from A to B, it has an impact on all sectors of the economy. There are ten planning guidelines to which we adhere, details of which the committee has received and there is no need for me to outline them.

A solution to our traffic and transport problems is needed and we would like such solution to be reached in the short term, definitely within our lifetime. Three main ingredients are required for such a solution to work. One is a system of integration. All parts of the network must link up like the parts of a car or a computer. The second ingredient and most important one is land use, which is in the main ignored. The third ingredient is the cost factor.

Dublin is a low density city in which much change is taking place and any transport system must take this into account. It is no longer sufficient for a system to serve only the city centre. Areas within the greater Dublin area can be 50 miles or more apart. A transport solution must not be used only as a facility to increase property prices.

We also have a new form of tourism with friends of immigrants travelling to and from this city. Such tourism will ensure our city is vibrant for many years to come. While Dublin city is small the number of tourists travelling to it is increasing. The radius system altered the centre of the city and that and planning are the scourge of the city and the root of many problems. We have a problem in that we tend to get such planning wrong and excuses for doing that are not good enough.

We have come up with a solution to solve these problems called the Circle Transport Plan or Circle 21. With the aid of a projector I will explain how bus, road and rail systems can be fully integrated. This diagram shows the most important component, the counter flow bus lane on the quays. I was involved in devising the QBCs. There are three important elements to the QBCs, one is the body of the corridor which extends to the white line. The counter flow bus lane route on the quays is at the heart of this plan and blood line of that system is link from the counter flow bus lane to the QBCs on the outskirts of the city. Without the three parts of the plan being in place, as in the case of the parts of a computer, the system will not work properly. The counter flow bus lane system on the quays is essential. More than 130 buses take advantage of it. There are no shops or stores on the quays and therefore the route is straightforward. Without that counterflow bus lane the corridor system could not work correctly.

This diagram shows the second element of the plan, which is a road solution. We propose the use of an alternative road which is being built, namely, the west circular road, which is a short distance out from the M50. A considerable stretch of this road and the interchanges on it have been built. The road will serve as an industrial corridor from Sandyford to the Dublin Airport. Its provision has the potential to generate 1 million jobs and activities. If it was linked to the main transport system, more businesses could locate on the outskirts of the city and relief provide relief in the city centre. The bus way is a circle route that includes the M50 and feeds into other routes in a grid fashion to service all areas of the city. That is a simple outline of the bus and rail network and later I will show members a detailed map of the west circular road.

This diagram shows the city rail network. The red lines denote the existing rail lines. The broken red lines denote the Luas lines. We propose to extend Luas lines, denoted by the broken blue line, which will link Lucan to Leixlip on one side and the city to the airport on the other side. The proposed metro north line will be located close to this proposed link. The metro north line will extend to near Finglas and if it was extended a short further distance, it would link with the road network. There is not much different between Transport 21 and our plan in that respect.

The essential part of this plan is covered in the small print at the foot of the map on display, namely, the linking of Connolly Station to Spencer Dock. Three rail lines come into Connolly Station, the routes of two of the lines border Croke Park and the other line is the northern line. The three lines all come into Spencer Dock. It would make that segment of the rail network six times more effective if they could be linked by providing a missing link to Connolly Station. If that was provided it would make a major difference and it would solve one aspect of the transport problem. However, currently there is not a sufficient number of trains to cover such a level of service. Such provision is a vital component of the solution. The route of the proposed Luas line to St. Stephen's Green will be from that central area along the quays across the Macken Street Bridge up to St. Stephen's Green. The third segment of the bus and rail network is denoted by the broken red lines and the red arrows, which is the bus counter flow lane on the quays. This gives us a fully integrated system in the heart of Dublin. We follow that up by enriching the river with other activities on it, such as circuit boardwalks to make that the heart. That will become the Canary Wharf of Ireland, even better than what they have in London. That is how different the place will be. Everyone can see the missing link is there over one kilometre. Unfortunately, we have a little difficulty with what is happening today. The Luas is being extended from Connolly to the Point Depot, which we very much favour. However, it will go down Moore Street rather than the quays, which will undermine our area because we cannot have rail tracks going over the Luas at every angle. It could undermine a wonderful system that could be operative in a very short time. The RPA is doing a wonderful job but it has opted for that plan. It said it was not aware of our example, although the inspector will look at it. One does not put in a system — that is called isolated planning — that would undermine better planning in the longer term.

The diagram on the left-hand side is what we call a three-in-one rail system. We have to get the maximum from rail. It can be done on two lines as well but we are doing it on four. When they double the Kildare line, at morning peak times we will have three rails going in and one out. In the evening we will have three going out and one in. One uses one's train where the customers want to go to get the maximum capacity from it. It is as simple as that.

The next diagram is a new cheap way to build rail, called median rail. Rail is on its way back. Many people may not believe that but in the future it may be. One builds it on the centre of a motorway. All the preliminary work has been done for the road. All the land has been purchased for the road. Most importantly, all the bridges have been built for the road. That is 75% of the cost accounted for, so one is left with25%. The benefit to the local area over five to ten years will cover that cost. Is there a cheaper way to do it? That is the bulk of our knowledge.

As regards the port tunnel, we propose that the bendy bus could be used as a quick access to the airport until something significant is built at the airport. Bendy buses are awkward in the streets. One can get to the airport in 17 minutes. It is an ideal solution to get to the airport with very little in its way. The Luas could possibly run on the same track, if necessary.

Despite our small numbers, if anyone has a better plan let them come forward with it so both plans can be compared on paper. We have a concern with the media. Numbers should not count. Be it 10,000 or 100,000, if the plan is good enough it should stand on its merits. Unfortunately, that is what is happening at the inquiry. Two things annoyed me today — first, the sales technique. A salesman never exposes his flaws. The second is the sheep effect. Every guy, one after the other, praised the plan and said there was no flaw in it. When the new plan was put to them, however, a few of them said to me "It wouldn't be good to do that".

Another problem concerns house prices which are causing transport movements with people being forced to buy houses down the country. Dublin has changed. We find that a major cause of house price rises is that builders hold on to property and houses. Some builders have 100, 200 or 300 houses. They are creating this scarcity in the market and are crucifying our young people. In 20 years time builders will end up with hundreds of houses on the backs of our young people. That is what is doing the damage. Perhaps somebody could look into that.

I have a resentment about the media. We would like to have fair play from the media, which should give both sides of it. At the same time, we do not have all the answers.

Mr. Newton is going outside the parameters by attacking the media here.

Mr. Newton

I am sorry.

Mr. Newton is aware of the guidelines with regard to anyone appearing before the committee — they cannot try to identify any group.

Mr. Newton

I am sorry about that. We are saying that both plans should be put on the table and together we can make it work. Do not leave us outside the discussion.

I thank the National Transport Users' Association for coming here today. I apologise for the delay in taking their presentation. I wish to raise a couple of issues. The presentation referred to the crucial area between the west circular road and the M50, which we all agree is a massive area for industrial development. I thought the plan for the west circular road was fairly well agreed. Has that not been accepted by the local authorities?

My second question concerns the contraflow bus-way system along the north and south quays. What has been the response from Bus Éireann to that? I presume the NTUA has made a presentation to it. Also, what is the position of the local authority, which would have responsibility for implementing the traffic management plan?

The overall NTUA plan relates directly to Transport 21. What input did NTUA have into that initiative and how many of the association's ideas are reflected in it?

Mr. Newton

I will deal with the third question first as there is quite an amount in the first one. We opted for a circular formation in the beginning and finally they have come our way on that one. They are bringing in the circular concept. It should be moved out further now because the industry is further out. Dublin has changed and we want to intercept cars coming in. It is too far when it gets in to the M50 or further in.

Is Mr. Newton saying that his west circular road is different to the one we have heard plans for previously here?

Mr. Newton

No. I am answering the third question first, concerning what input we had into Transport 21.

Mr. Newton

So much of our plan is now visible in Transport 21. Initially, going back to 1992-93, we proposed that a rail link should have gone on the M50. In Transport 21 they are saying they will put one there as well, right beside it in the same area. However, the system has changed so much that the industrial corridor is further out, and we must serve the working area. That is why we suggested linking the two rail lines together at Lucan to Leixlip, which is three miles. The Luas would come out from Tallaght to Citywest. It is going in that direction. It could go a bit further and eventually join that line. Now we are over to Blanchardstown. That three-mile link would be of huge benefit in preserving the whole area there.

The Deputy's first question concerned the west circular road. There is a bit of doubt as to where it would cross the River Liffey. We wanted a similar circular formation but because of Adamstown we are almost getting the road in by default. Part of it is called the outer ring road heading down towards the N4. When one comes across the railway, however, a new road is being built that turns left. One goes to Adamstown and comes out on the Celbridge road. One then goes across the bridge over the river at Young's garage. We have no road from there to the N4, but we have a private road to the N4, which is the Intel road. There is only half a mile of road to be built but in the meantime we could perhaps use that road and put a wall beside it to segregate Intel by licence. When we get to Hewlett Packard the road is good. From there, there is half a mile of road to be upgraded over to the Dunboyne-Maynooth road. That is quite a good road with huge hedges that could be taken off in the meantime in order that the industrial area could be properly serviced.

There was a second question.

Has the NTUA presented its contra bus-way to the local authority and Bus Éireann?

Mr. Newton

Yes. We have put it to Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. They all think it is a perfect solution. I put it to all my drivers hoping it will be done because we can get in and out of traffic. We feel we are in competition with Dublin Bus and the Luas. We want to get in and out in a guaranteed five or six minutes. More importantly, we want to put in what are called quality bus-enclosed safety terminals and we can do that only with the quays. These will be quality terminals where the customers are inside, away from the elements and where all information is provided. The buses would go in at one side and be properly covered, turn and come back up on Eden Quay. If there are parades or marches, or even accidents, buses would turn short at O'Connell Bridge and go back out again. We all agree is the perfect solution.

Unfortunately, some people are saying it would undermine Luas and it is better to upgrade the Luas. The Luas takes 12 minutes to get in. We all are battling, but not against each. We should work together. We work well with the Luas people. If we provide such a facility, the entire bus service would come to life and the delays on the outskirts would not be so bad.

The second aspect of it is that our buses go into the city on the left-hand side of the Liffey and turn right, which involves crossing two lanes of traffic. The buses are the main cause of the difficulty between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. and this proposal would eliminate that difficulty. Another body very much behind us is the Garda, which also sees it as the perfect solution.

We are seeking a trial period, when the tunnel opens. There are two narrow spots which we have found ways to deal with and if the trial is successful we could solve difficulties associated those two narrow spots in any case.

On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. Newton, Professor Rice and Mr. Brophy for attending. I now adjourn the committee——

Professor Val Rice

May I say a few words?

No. We allowed for a presentation of ten minutes, which was used by Mr. Newton. He was aware of that beforehand.

Professor Rice

I did not realise there was a time limit, particularly in view of the considerable time given to Aer Lingus in the previous presentation.

Aer Lingus is a different circumstance. It is a semi-State company and that is the reason there was so much time given to the Minister. The committee is in the middle of conducting an inquiry on the privatisation of Aer Lingus. Normally, groups are allowed ten minutes for presentations, followed by a question and answer session. That is the position.

Professor Rice

We did not realise that. I was invited along to address the effects of transport on the environment of the Liffey Valley to the west of Dublin.

I am sorry about that but Mr.Newton should have been aware of the process. He has been before the committee previously and he was aware of how the committee operated.

Mr. Brophy

Time seems to fly when one gets into the detail.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.15 p.m. sine die.

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