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Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate -
Wednesday, 24 Jan 2024

Capital Projects and Operations: Iarnród Éireann

The purpose of today's meeting is to engage with Iarnród Éireann-Irish Rail and be provided with an update on its capital projects and operational activities. I am very pleased to welcome Mr. Jim Meade, chief executive, Mr. Paul Hendrick, director of capital investments, and Mr. Barry Kenny, corporate communications manager.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. If their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I also remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where he or she is not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting and in this regard, I ask any member partaking via Microsoft Teams to confirm that he or she is on the grounds of the Leinster House campus prior to making a contribution.

Mr. Meade, I now invite you to make your opening statement.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the committee for the invitation to attend to provide it with an update on Iarnród Éireann’s activities, including our capital projects and operations. We are at a time of great ambition and optimism for our rail services and network, and for Rosslare Europort, for which Iarnród Éireann is the port authority. Projects for all our cities and for the national network will ensure rail is the backbone of Ireland’s sustainable transport network. The decade of delivery that we are working through will be genuinely transformative for the network.

Passenger demand for 2023 saw 46.1 million journeys made across the network, an increase of 29% on the 2022 total of 35.8 million. The pre-Covid record of over 50 million is in sight for this coming year. The intercity service is seeing a particularly strong recovery. We introduced new services on routes including Cork, Limerick, Westport-Ballina and Carlow in our recent December 2023 timetable change, as well as enhanced Portlaoise and Drogheda commuter services. In the short term, we will begin the introduction of 41 new intercity railcar carriages, which could not be more timely. We envisage further timetable improvements during 2024, particularly on the Galway and Belfast routes. As well as building our service capacity, we continue to build the customer experience. Our restructured train operations division brings a determined focus to ensuring we become a leader in Europe for customer care.

Our major rail investment programme, funded by the National Transport Authority, NTA, under Project Ireland 2040, will see significant, tangible progress in a range of projects during the year ahead. Our current planned fleet and network investment programme will exceed €1 billion during the life of the national development plan, NDP, and will bring us to a new era for rail transport in Ireland. As well as the intercity railcar carriages mentioned previously, the first of 185 DART+ carriages on order from Alstom will arrive in summer of 2024 to begin testing and commissioning ahead of entering service in 2025. These are battery-electric and so are a very sustainable fleet. This transformative fleet is central to the DART+ programme. The investment will allow more trains to operate on all routes on the rail network, provide greater standards of accessibility, and allow for the decarbonising of all greater Dublin area rail services. DART+ will double the capacity and treble the electrification of the greater Dublin rail network.

In our submission, we have included a table outlining the various programmes under DART+, with DART+ west being the first element. We are awaiting a railway order on that and believe it is imminent, with DART+ south west coming hot on its heels. We are just awaiting the railway order oral hearing, which is to be scheduled by An Bord Pleanála, and the others will follow suit.

At the bottom of the table, there is the DART+ fleet, which, as I said, the first carriages of which will arrive at the end of quarter 2.

We are also progressing, with our partners Translink and Northern Ireland Railways, a tender for a new Enterprise fleet to ensure a sustainably powered hourly service on the Dublin to Belfast route. We are liaising with the Department of Transport and the Special EU Programmes Body, SEUPB, on funding and timelines for this project.

Turning to our regional cities, I will start with Cork. All projects in the Cork area commuter rail programme are under way under the EU-funded recovery and resilience plan, allowing Iarnród Éireann to treble the Cork commuter rail network’s capacity through three enabling projects on the infrastructure side. First is double-tracking Glounthaune to Midleton. The railway order was granted before Christmas and works have commenced. Second, we are developing a new platform at Kent Station that would allow through-running for Mallow to Cobh-Midleton. Third, we are resignalling the Cork commuter network, for which the contract has been signed and work commenced. That whole project is on target for delivery in 2026.

In Galway, funding under the urban regeneration development fund, URDF, includes investment of just under €10 million for a second platform and passing loop at the existing Oranmore train station. This will allow the busy commuter link between Athenry and Galway to grow. A planning application is currently in the pipeline for early this year. In addition, Ceannt Station will be regenerated as part of a major Galway City Council transport connectivity project. We recently awarded the contract. Physical works began earlier this month, which will deliver a transformative five-platform station at the heart of an integrated transport hub, catering for all future service growth.

In Limerick, the completion of the city’s own transport hub centred at Colbert Station will boost services, and the Limerick Shannon metropolitan area transport strategy has detailed the opportunities provided by the network of rail lines around Limerick city. Station studies are under way for both Moyross and Ballysimon stations, and a capacity enhancement study for Limerick to Limerick Junction and Limerick to Ennis is also under way.

Waterford’s Plunkett Station is being relocated to be part of an integrated transport hub under the Waterford North Quays, and these works are also under way.

As one arrives and departs Heuston Station, one will see our new national train control centre, NTCC. Its construction was completed in late 2022 and is co-located with An Garda Síochána facilities opened in 2023. The Garda moved from the Harcourt Street site. It will control the entire national network, incorporating a new rail traffic management system called TMS and enhance train performance, punctuality and customer information across the network. It will be fully operational by autumn 2025. We had targeted the end of 2024 for completion but the impacts of Covid-19 and the Ukraine conflict affected construction and TMS development timelines. However, we are working with the NTA as the approving authority and applying rigorous project oversight to ensure that we can, as planned, migrate from our existing central traffic control, CTC, facility at Connolly Station on a phased basis to mid-2025, gradually transferring all our railway controls operations from Connolly to Heuston for full operation.

We are ambitious for our rail freight services to become a key part of Ireland’s freight sector. Our Rail Freight 2040 Strategy sets out a clear path to make this happen. The strategy aims to achieve a fivefold increase in the number of freight services, to include more than 100 new weekly services across the network; a resulting reduction of 25,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions annually, with rail freight emissions per unit as little as 16% of HGV emissions; and avoiding the requirement for 140,000 HGV journeys on our roads annually, as well as helping the supply chain, which is facing a shortage of HGV drivers.

The strategy outlines 25 initiatives and a cumulative investment of approximately €500 million within the five strategic pillars of the freight strategy, which are: enhancing connections with sea ports; developing a network of inland intermodal terminals; investing in new wagon fleets and bimodal locomotives to allow for further decarbonisation of freight flows; network developments including the connectivity of industrial sites directly to the network; and working with national, regional and European agencies to ensure a policy framework is in place to support a more favourable environment for rail freight, in line with European norms.

Works to reinstate the Limerick to Foynes rail line for freight services are under way following funding from the Department of Transport. It is clear commitment to the goals of the Rail Freight 2040 Strategy, with an early 2026 opening still planned.

Under climate action, as well as providing sustainable transport alternatives for people and freight, this investment is part of our climate action to reduce emissions by 51% by 2030. This will be achieved from reduced reliance on diesel through alternative fuels on existing fleets with biofuels, hydrotreated vegetable oil, HVO, and green hydrogen programmes being pursued. Track maintenance vehicle and road fleet transition programmes are under way. We will also be transitioning to electric-powered fleet. The DART+ fleet mentioned are the first order from a framework contract of 750 carriages, which can also serve the Cork area, Wicklow and elsewhere, subject to infrastructure investment. We will also achieve reduced emissions through: green energy generation, including photovoltaic, PV, solar panels and corporate purchasing power agreements; a fleet and building works to reduce energy consumption, with our existing intercity railcar and commuter fleets seeing hybrid power and other upgrades to reduce consumption; and building upgrades to improve energy efficiency while protecting the heritage of our buildings.

The next subject I will speak about is the all-island strategic rail review. Railways and other transport infrastructure are long-term national assets, and the publication by the Department of Transport in Ireland and Department of Infrastructure in Northern Ireland of the draft of the first all-island strategic rail review was extremely welcome in establishing the future strategic agenda for our sector. It recommends improved speeds and frequency, electrification, new and enhanced routes and greater regional balance by developing a rail network that will sustainably serve a growing population, significantly benefitting people, communities, businesses, the environment and economies across the island of Ireland, both North and South. Iarnród Éireann strongly supports all recommendations in the draft review and appreciates having had the opportunity to input into its preparation. We look forward to collaborating with all stakeholders on next steps and see it as part of the real momentum towards rail playing a stronger role in our transport and mobility solutions over the years and decades ahead. It is critical that we ensure a steady pipeline of projects to maintain our infrastructure development and move away from stop-start patterns of the past.

There are two final matters that I wish to raise, the first of which is Rosslare Europort. Iarnród Éireann is port authority for Rosslare Europort and its status as Ireland’s gateway to Europe has been confirmed with 36 services operating directly between the port and Europe each week. As well as investment in the port master plan, an ambitious €200 million plan to become one of Ireland’s renewable energy hubs to service the offshore renewable energy, ORE, sector is progressing, with the port uniquely placed to support the development of the industry in the Celtic and Irish Seas. The planning process for this key national and regional strategic investment will be progressed through 2024. We are also supporting the Office of Public Works, OPW, in its significant T7 investment programme in the port, incorporating permanent border control facilities within our site at Rosslare Europort.

Last but not least is our people. We are building a workplace to firmly establish Iarnród Eireann as an employer of choice. Ensuring the railway has the talent and skills across all roles needed to deliver on its ambitions is critical. The company offers not just employment but full career opportunities across the company. In 2023, for the third year in a row, Iarnród Eireann was ranked as one of Ireland’s five leading employers in the best employers research. It was third overall and the leading Irish employer in the study in 2023. Additionally, we have been awarded apprenticeship employer of the year, with a commitment not only to excellent apprenticeships but continued career opportunities. It is a busy time but an exciting one. Our team of more than 4,500 colleagues across all business areas are working as one team to deliver on our ambitions.

I thank the committee for its continued support. We would be happy to answer any questions members may have.

Mr. Meade was supposed to have five minutes but his presentation took 11. However, it was important that he took the time to outline the position in full. It is clear that there is a great deal of activity going on. The numbers relating to public transport generally and the rail service in particular are very positive. Where the facilities are offered, we see people are able to make the change.

As a Senator, you get the opportunity to have a constituency that encompasses the entire country. You can be parochial everywhere because it is all your parish. I sent out an email only yesterday evening and since then I have heard from 34 different councillors right across the country, from areas with huge amounts of rail services to areas, including Donegal, that do not have any services but that want them. I will not be able to cover all the points raised by those councillors but I will try to mention them. I spoke to Mr. Meade in advance about how he might be able to respond with answers in writing. We will have his company's chair designate in shortly, no doubt with some others as well, and we might go back and clarify those that do not get resolved.

I know some are definitely being looked at. For example, the dining service is not back everywhere yet. Is it on the way back? That has been kind of a constant of our engagement since I have been on this committee.

It is back on some services. It is not back on others. There was a difficulty tendering. Airlines seem to make an awful lot of money out of catering on planes but they may have a different cost model because they have cabin crew there providing security already who are then doing it additionally. Certainly, that is one of the points.

I will touch on other points but I want to mention a flavour of the queries I got. Iarnród Éireann can respond. I do not expect a response to all of these, but only wish to touch on them to let people know that we are in touch and listening to their issues and their challenges, and equally, that they are being considered and that Iarnród Éireann will come back to them.

Councillor Mark Duffy in Ballina says the additional trains for Mayo are most welcome but the late train service to Ballina on a Saturday is not available, and asks if that can be rectified.

On staffing resources, there is a query for Bus Éireann which we will deal with on another day. I do not expect Mr. Meade to answer those ones.

On an update on DART West for Councillor Howard Mahony in Fingal, does Iarnród Éireann intend to close all the railway crossings west of Ashtown? Apparently, they can be open on the DART line from Bray to Howth but not on DART West. They have not been able to get an answer to that for three years.

Councillor Adrian Henchy asks for an update, including timelines, on the delivery of the DART extension north of Malahide to Drogheda. Are their potential opportunities for Irish Rail to connect in any line out of Dublin Airport? That is separate to the MetroLink. Obviously, there was talk previously of a connection from the DART.

Councillor Mick Duff, in Tallaght, states that areas such as Ballyfermot and Inchicore have experienced high population increases and asks if Iarnród Éireann could open a station at the Inchicore engineering works with access via the so-called Khyber Pass at Sarsfield Road in order to serve this high-demand area?

Councillor Christy Burke, in Dublin, wants to know why Iarnród Éireann cut down trees along the canal at Charleville Mall, on the North Strand. They have been asking for three years about that.

In Meath, we have issues about the Navan rail line, if Mr. Meade can touch on that. It is topical.

The NTA came out with its new fare structure today. Mr. Meade might mention the impact of that on Iarnród Éireann's services.

There is more about the Navan rail line from Councillor Paul McCabe and Councillor Aisling Dempsey, and, in Kildare, from Councillor Seamus Moore. It is a case of there being an absolute appetite here. We have seen extra members here today. There are other members who want to contribute who are not members of this committee. Deputy Ó Cuív is here. Deputies Leddin, Wynne and Pádraig O'Sullivan are all interested. We might be having Mr. Meade back sooner than he thinks or sooner than he might have liked to be here. To touch on those points, is it a resourcing issue? Is it a financing issue? The dining car is one that we have been asking about a lot since Covid.

Mr. Jim Meade

I took a note on them. I will deal with all those. The fare structure-----

That is only about one third of them. I have a load more.

Would the Leas-Chathaoirleach take a vote in the Seanad?

I would not go that far. We will try.

Mr. Jim Meade

As we committed already, I am pleased to forward on all the various queries and we will respond to them. We will have those responses in before our-----

I have Sligo-Longford queries. I have Galway queries. I have Limerick-Ennis queries. I have Kerry queries. I have Cork queries. It is almost like Iarnród Éireann's arterial network. I have got queries from people about all those lines, and then from some people who do not have lines but want lines.

Mr. Jim Meade

The Leas-Chathaoirleach might get through it all.

The NTA has announced a new fare structure. Like all fare structures, it is mostly improvements but, from our perspective, it does not really impact us. We are now on what is called a gross-cost contract.

Iarnród Éireann does not collect the fare box, is that it?

Mr. Jim Meade

We collect the fare box but it goes straight to the NTA.

But Iarnród Éireann does not keep it.

Mr. Jim Meade

We do not keep it. It goes straight to the NTA. That is since the start of the year.

The changes to fares are done by the NTA. They collect the fare box. We submit our budget every year and they approve it or not, which they did last year for the current year. Then we have to provide our services against that budget and not go over it. In that context, it does not really impact on us.

It will impact on us in certain areas. I commute in and out from Newbridge when I stay up and the short-hop zone will be extending out as part of this. That will draw a lot more people onto that network and it will become a capacity issue for us quite quickly, particularly in the greater Dublin area, as we extend the short-hop zone. What we will be looking at increasingly is how this can be done. As we go through this afternoon, the committee will hear more from us on where we are going with the fleet and when we expect to see new trains on the system. There will be a pinch point with capacity because we are already seeing it with the rate of recovery we have had. The fare structure is looked after by the NTA. The benefit, or not as the case may be, will be to its account and not to ours.

The Navan rail line is in plan already. That is something that will happen. Part of Mr. Hendrick's team is looking after it. They have just put the team in place and they are starting with the planning phase of that.

Dublin Airport is not in the current NDP. It is called out in the All-Island Strategic Rail Review. It is a line item in that review for consideration. The All-Island Strategic Rail Review, as I stated in my note, was out for public consultation. Consultation has gone back. The Department is collating that. I believe they hope to publish it as soon as they can. We inputted into that. It is the Department's document. It details all three airports, Belfast, Dublin and Shannon, to be considered for connection to the heavy-rail network. Arising out of that review, the next steps for post-final publication will be to identify the projects we want to move forward with and start the plan on those.

Later trains is always an issue for everybody. It is something we have looked at. We have added some in the current timetable. By sweating the assets, we have more. We are constantly looking at that. There is a trade-off between maintaining the railway, which we can only do at night, and how late we operate and how early we start so that we create a window for the infrastructure people to get in, maintain the railway and keep it at the level we want to keep it at. That will always be a trade-off but we are considering the possibilities on all routes. As we roll out our new fleets, including the new Alstom fleet and the battery-electrics, we will be able to start cascading fleet, particularly onto the regional routes that are currently there because, off the first two orders, we will be adding these fleets and we will not be taking anything out. That will allow us to cascade, to provide for hourly services to the major cities, and to put on later trains once we have that fleet.

The dining service was mentioned as well by the Leas-Chathaoirleach. When we came back after the pandemic, we went to put back the full service. Costs had increased, in some cases fourfold or fivefold. We pay for somebody to provide that service. We had a limited budget from the NTA to do it.

Is it not considered a profitable service in that an operator can go on a train, deliver a product and collect what they can get paid for it?

Mr. Jim Meade

No. Even in the boom times, we were paying for that service. We were paying an annual contribution and the operator was making what it could from it. Post Covid, people wanted to shift all the risk onto the rail company. The kind of numbers that were being suggested were just not tenable with us. However, we used the budget we had to put on the Cork service because that, for us, was the premier route. It is the longest route. It catches Kerry. It catches Limerick. We were getting a decent benefit from it. While using that budget for that, we have also gone back to the market. That allows suppliers to understand what the market is now like, how many people would use it and what the footfall would be, etc. We are currently in the market for a full service but it will come down to a cost factor as to what kind of costs come back. We are all seeing cost inflation in every aspect of life now - it is just what it is - but we hope to be able to put services back on all routes post that procurement process.

I thank Mr. Meade. I will not keep listing all the issues. Some of the members here will be touching on points. I have issues about the Ballybrophy line in north Tipperary. I have issues about the lack of a bridge in Killarney between the bus station and the train station. If there was one, it would save people, particularly the elderly and those with mobility issues, an eight- or nine-minute walk. It seems a no-brainer but it has never happened. Mr. Meade might touch on that.

I will submit all these queries. Mr. Meade might come back to me with them and then we can resolve them if they need further investigation. There is an appetite for public transport. If it is there and it is reliable, clean, frequent and priced well, people really want to use it, but if it is not there they cannot. If it is not reliable, they cannot. If it is too full, they cannot. I was genuinely amazed by the amount and volume of queries I got, and the detailed nature of some of the queries I have. I may come back in at a later stage. Some of them may be covered by other members anyway.

I do not want to hog the time but to allow other members in. I will bring in, first of all, members of the committee and then non-members of the committee. Then we will go back to members of the committee for a second round, if we have time. The next contributor, a member of the committee, is Deputy Martin Kenny, who has ten minutes.

I thank Mr. Meade for his contribution and the work he and all the staff across the whole network do.

Starting locally, on 10 December Iarnród Éireann announced increases to services across the country. Unfortunately, living in the north west, we did not seem to get any such increases. The Sligo-Dublin line did not get any additional services or investment. I would like an explanation. What plans are there to set that particular discrepancy right?

I would also like to get some more information on the plans for the development of the western rail corridor.

It is welcome that the Athenry to Claremorris part of it is in progress. The next part of that is up to Collooney. People in my constituency and, indeed, the entire north west are determined for that to happen as quickly as possible. I hope Iarnród Éireann shares that determination, not as something that is pie in the sky but to ensure that infrastructure will be sterilised, cannot be used for anything else and is put in place to put rail on it as fast as we can.

Mr. Meade mentioned a lot of the investment that is happening. He stated that in some cases there is double-tracking and pointed out where issues are to be resolved. I hope there are other areas where that can be expanded, with more work done in respect of that.

We really need to look at the issue in Dublin Airport. It is the main international airport in the country, and while metro is something we absolutely need and should be happening as quickly as possible, I am interested to know whether there are any plans or any possibility for a DART line that would go there, which would happen much faster than metro. Even if we started metro tomorrow, it would probably be seven, eight or ten years before it would happen. Is there an alternative whereby we could put a rail out there-----

It would be ten years at the moment.

Yes, but when we get into government, it will be much faster than that.

We have not heard that before. I will try to be neutral in the Chair.

You can try your best but it will be hard for you. We want to see something that is progressing and can happen soon. What is Mr. Meade’s view on delivering something in that area?

Mr. Jim Meade

As the Deputy outlined, we made several changes in December relating to sweating the assets we have as best we can. We intend to significantly improve the services to the full arc of the country, including Sligo, Westport, Galway, Limerick, Kerry, which is at the maximum, Waterford and so on, as we roll out the fleet. We also intend to move to an hourly service and reduce journey times. Those are our two big ticket items on those routes. It is about sweating the assets we have at the moment on the rout in question. We have ambition and plans to add other services to the route and we will be doing that.

The Deputy mentioned the airport. It is, as I outlined, a line item in the All-Island Strategic Rail Review, where all three major airports are called out. It is not currently in either the regional NDP up to 2027 or the revised NDP from 2021 to 2030. It is not in our plans at the moment, but the draft TEN-T proposal from the European Commission targets all major city airports with passenger traffic of more than 12 million passengers to be connected to the heavy rail network by 2040. That is going to align with the ambition in the all-island rail review. The TEN-T proposal is still a draft and may change, but right now that is what the draft says.

Yes, it can be done, but it is up to the Government at a given point to decide whether it wants to do it. We can deliver it if we are asked to do it, but that will come from the Government, through the Department, and probably through the NTA to us.

Does Iarnród Éireann have a timeline as to how fast that could happen?

Mr. Jim Meade

In reality, if we had approval for it to happen today, we would first start into a design and planning phase. It would require a railway order. If we had a fair wind, it would be two or two and a half years at a minimum, probably a little more, and we would build it out in a further two or two and a half years.

It would take five years.

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes.

What would be the cost?

Mr. Jim Meade

It is dangerous to say numbers because numbers get bandied about and quoted back. I will not put a number on it, but it would be reasonable for what we would be doing, although I would say that given I am a railway person.

Is there a track, or does Iarnród Éireann have something in mind, for the route it would take to do that?

Mr. Jim Meade

It was looked at previously. The alignment would be that we would go beyond Clongriffin Station, turn left and go in under the flight path. We would elevate and go over the M1 rather than underground, just as the railway through the centre of Dublin is elevated and has been for 190 years. As we approached the motorway, we would elevate, stay up and go into the departure areas of T2 and T1.

On the western rail corridor, again, that is a line item and we know it is the ambition of the Minister for Transport to reinstate it if he can. It is called out in the strategic review. We recently started doing some de-vegetation works on it to keep the line clean and open. The Department's view is that it is very viable for a freight corridor, in particular. We would probably do it in stages from Athenry to Claremorris. Beyond Claremorris, we would certainly support the ambition to keep it for rail traffic rather than anything else, and in time, if a decision is made to connect to Collooney, so be it.

Mr. Meade mentioned freight and, in his opening statement, pointed out the ambition Iarnród Éireann has around that. Are there issues with regard to yards and so on? A lot of them were closed and the facilities taken away. Would a lot of investment be required to get back into freight to make it profitable in future?

Mr. Jim Meade

We carried out an overarching freight strategy a year and a half ago, which called out €500 million over a ten- or 15-year period or maybe longer. It looked at inland ports and intermodal hubs. Those would be new facilities where we would connect in. There are some yards we could use. We are talking to some of the local authorities. One local authority in the middle of the country is very interested in an intermodal hub because it would have connectivity to ports. We would put in the facilities where they would be best suited to allow the heavy goods industry to do the short hauls to and from the ports. Traditionally, such as in the case of my home station in Limerick, the freight yard was located in what is now almost the middle of the city, but we would not put it there now. It would be somewhere outside the city and we would let the road transport do the short legs.

For us, it is about reconnecting with the ports. A good example is Foynes Port, which we are reconnecting with. I know the Shannon Foynes Port Company is anxious to get it finished and believes it will get a lot of traffic for it if we can start moving traffic to that port. A supplier in the west is anxious to move two trains a week, as soon as we get it open, from the west to Foynes Port. It has specified Foynes Port, but it could really go to any port. We intend to reconnect with Cork Port and we are currently connecting with Waterford Port and Dublin Port. It is about growing business. We currently carry in or around 1% of the traffic, and the ambition is to grow that into the mid-teens over a ten- or 15-year period.

The frequency of trains is one of the main issues people have a difficulty with, not least in the case of late-night or late-evening trains. Are there ambitions to do that throughout the State and when will that happen? What happened in early December was clearly welcome but an awful lot of the trains, even from the west, which has a poor enough service some of the time, are very overcrowded and do not have the frequency people require. Will double-tracking be needed on some of those tracks to bring them up to the standard we need?

Mr. Jim Meade

The short answer on the final part of that question is "Yes", and we have identified in our own strategies where we believe those sections will be. While we spoke about the Sligo road earlier, in the case of Westport and Galway we would look at double-tracking between Portarlington and Athlone. We definitely want to double-track from Athenry into Galway, given that if and when Athenry to Claremorris is completed, we would then be at a crossroads of the railway and there are inherent traffic difficulties in Galway. Oranmore into Galway by rail takes eight minutes, whereas by road at the morning peak it takes closer to an hour, so it is a no-brainer and we have the desire to do that. We have started a study looking at double-tracking from Limerick to Limerick Junction. We have identified areas throughout the network where we need to add double-tracking, which will add capacity to the network and frequency.

We absolutely have an ambition to put later trains to all our major cities and to go to an hourly service to all our major cities throughout the network. It does give us a headache, and we have to figure out how we are going to maintain the railway. When TII wants to do major work on a motorway, it will shut it and switch to an alternative route, but we do not have that flexibility, so we have to plan how we can carry out our maintenance cleverly and in shorter timeframes or blitz it in different ways. The network has been upgraded and continues to be upgraded, and once we get it to the condition it should be in, given it was let run down over a couple of decades, it will be easier to keep that maintenance level.

The spend over time is smaller if you do it that way. We will always have that trade-off and, not so much early trains, because we probably have enough early trains in most directions, but later trains are being looked at to all the cities.

Will there be a problem providing security on later trains?

Mr. Jim Meade

There is always a security risk in everything we do. It is slightly different but the model is the same, but we ran a lot of late night trains over the Christmas period in the greater Dublin area and we put security on all of those. We got very good numbers on them this year and numbers are growing every year. As we put on those Christmas and new year late-night trains, they get support and the use of them is growing.

On all of our intercity services over the past three years, we have put onboard customer service people back on board. We do not have an intercity train that moves around now with nobody on board. We did for a number of years but we have corrected that, and anywhere we have issues, we will put in security, be it in stations or on board. There are no right or wrong answers. Antisocial behaviour is a societal issue. We see it. Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and Luas see it, and we see it off the public transport system as well. It will be constant monitoring, reviewing and seeing where we need security. We have more than doubled our security presence across the network in recent years and we keep responding to the need.

On security, there is an onus on me to say for the record of the committee that An Garda Síochána has been very co-operative with us in this area. We have done an awful lot of very good work with it. It has put in transport hubs for us and it does the twin-track days. There is great co-operation between ourselves and An Garda Síochána and there is a great response to the whole antisocial area.

I thank Deputy Kenny and if he wants I will try to bring him back in later. Senator Craughwell is next.

I am delighted to see that the Leas-Chathaoirleach has covered most of our electorate but he missed out on one or two.

I have a few more to mention yet.

Councillor Leonard from Wicklow talks about the Rosslare line. I understand now that the train is so overcrowded that people stand all of the time. She has made the request for at least two more carriages to be added. She also mentions people carrying bicycles on the train, and this is becoming a problem. I use the Luas and have seen people bringing their bicycles into seated and standing areas on the Luas, which is a problem and, indeed, is a problem on any sort of rail.

People cannot actually bring bicycles on the Luas, so if the Senator saw them, he should not have seen them.

People do, and especially these scooters we are still waiting to regulate.

We will not blame scooters on bikes or vice versa.

That is a problem. Councillor Joe Conway - I got another one of my councillors in, thank God - has highlighted the fact that the disabled toilet on the Waterford train has been out of service since 2 December. Of all the people to let down, and I know because my son-in-law is in a wheelchair, any time wheelchair users want to travel, it is particularly difficult to have access and find where they get access. Has Irish Rail plans to provide better access for disabled people on the rail system?

Another issue is the dining service my colleague mentioned. The Enterprise service from Dublin to Belfast has excellent dining services, as does the Cork train service. An auld fella like myself travelling by rail likes to sit down and have my breakfast in comfort as I travel back to the west or wherever. From that point of view, I would hope that Irish Rail is successful in getting a new contractor to come in and that the business would be viable for it, but not six times the price. If there is anything we can do to assist in that, that would be really important.

The other issue that bothers me is the number of railway lines we closed down in the sixties. I am mindful, for example, of the line to Clifden. My grandfather, God be good to him, drove a Bianconi coach out to Clifden before there was a train going out there, and then we had the train. A lot of the infrastructure is still there. Has anybody looked at that infrastructure and seen how we might expand the rail system? I realise we are talking about a lot of money. If we want a truly green country, the best thing we could do is have a rail service going out to places like Clifden and Donegal. The western rail corridor needs to be reopened fully.

I am really impressed to hear the witnesses talk about freight. I reckon we could reduce to a fraction the number of 40-foot trucks I see on the roads every single day if we had proper depots. I am very familiar with Limerick railway station. You could not do freight there, but you could probably do freight somewhere out around Mungret. There is a railway line going out as far as Mungret, so it could possibly be done. Is Irish Rail getting the support it would need to start setting up these freight depots around the country? I can see us reducing from 40-foot trailers to delivery vans in local and regional areas.

Those are my key issues. The Rosslare issue seems to be a huge problem now. With the growth of towns like Gorey, Arklow, etc., and the people are all commuting into this godforsaken town, that is a serious problem. Has Irish Rail the money to buy extra carriages if it needs them?

I remind the Senator not to find fault or criticise things, or make them identifiable. Be careful what you say about our capital city.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Jim Meade

There is support from the Department, absolutely. I give credit to the Department and the NTA, which some of the funding comes through. They are supportive of the programmes we have and have listed. They are supportive of the capital programmes. We have just made a submission for Rosslare. The business case has gone in to the Department. We are just about finishing the procurement process for a new fleet for freight. The Department awaits that from us to go through the funding models to see if it has the capital to fund. Everything must go through a business case process and comply with the public spending code. Is the Department's door open to us and can we put plans on the table? Absolutely, I would say that aspect has shifted considerably over recent years. There is a willingness to discuss. We still have to make the case stand up but there is a willingness to cost.

As a west Clare man who grew up on the old west Clare line and now lives in east Clare, which is near Deputy Crowe's constituency, I also lament what we could have if we had the west Clare line right now, and like the Clifden line. In the 1960s, when these railway lines were closed, they were abandoned. Local farmers took them over and people built houses on the permanent way, etc., so it would be a considerable cost to bring some of those back into use. Can it be done? Of course it can but it is all about how many. To be honest, you start talking billions if you are going to CPO land.

Where we have existing alignments, they are from the seventies on and the eighties. We learned from the mistakes of the past. That was our forefathers and none of us were involved. We did not abandon lines anymore but put them under care and maintenance, which is why we have the Foynes line to reopen. I have the unusual distinction that, as a very young manager, one of the first jobs I got when I went into operations was to close the Foynes line, so I am happy to be still here to reopen it. We retained the western rail corridor and the Cork-Midleton line, so we were able to put railways back on for a relatively cheap price. You have to look at all of these assets. There are big numbers involved. Mr. Hendrick will not talk unless you are talking about a hundred million or a billion. Those are the numbers he likes to talk in now because-----

Mr. Jim Meade

-----it is major capital. You are putting in infrastructure for 100 years. When you stand back and look at the life cycle cost of these investments, of new trains, which now come at a very reasonable price, and new infrastructure, it is actually cheap infrastructure. In fairness to the Government, and the Department was mentioned, they now see that and that the long-term investment, especially in all modes of transport infrastructure, is a good investment long term.

The Senator mentioned two things, one of which was the Rosslare line. Maybe afterwards he would give us details about the Waterford train because there should not be a disability toilet out of service. We do need to follow up on the matter.

I have the same query and there is a photo, but it is about the accessible toilet at Heuston Station. It has not been operational since 2 December, and it was still not operational on 15 and 22 January, which is about seven weeks. People use the toilet on their train journey between Waterford and wherever, but I think this is a query about the station's accessible toilet.

No, it was the train here and I have the photographs.

The Senator has the photograph but I think is the accessible toilet at the station rather than on the train.

Mr. Jim Meade

The Senator might pass on what he has to us later and we will have a look. I do want to follow up.

Our toilets on our trains should be operational full stop. Yes, one can go out of service but it should not be out of service for that length of time. We are after spending a considerable amount of money in Heuston Station so I am surprised to hear that is out of service. There is a call system on it, is there not?

Mr. Barry Kenny

Yes.

Mr. Jim Meade

There is a call system so we just need to check the detail on that for the Senator because-----

On the Heuston to Waterford train, the disabled toilet has been defunct since 2 December, which is at least seven weeks. Mr. Meade might just check that.

Mr. Jim Meade

We will follow up. It would not be the same train. There is no way we have several trains out there with it not working. There is something misaligned there, but we will have a look. We will absolutely have a look and come back to both the Leas-Chathaoirleach and the Senator on it.

On the Rosslare line issue raised by the Senator's constituent, yes, we would like to add two more carriages. Sometimes, I say to myself tongue-in-cheek when someone suggests it that I wish we had thought of it. We have every wheel turning. We do not have two spare carriages to put on. However, the really good news is that we will have. We have a fleet coming. The first order of our new fleet, the Alstom battery-electric trains, is coming. The very first train will arrive in Q2 of this year. That goes into a very rigorous testing process with our regulator, the Commission for Railway Regulation. It is a very slow, onerous process because it is under the jurisdiction of the European Union Agency for Railways, UAR. It can take approximately nine months to commission that train and prove it is safe on our network and all the things that go with it. It will be at least that time. Once that is done, that is the head of the series and we start rolling out after that.

Mr. Jim Meade

Those new trains are going to create capacity to have more trains across the network and that allows us to add services. The other thing we are doing this year is that we have 41 new carriages for our existing trains coming in - what we call our intercity railcars, ICRs. We have ordered 41 of them. That will add capacity. They were originally for the greater Dublin area for commuter capacity. We will be spreading them across the network. We have a plan for where they will go. That may add some capacity to the Rosslare line, but the real relief will not come until we start adding more trains. Today, we have a live fleet of 629 vehicles across the network. We are adding 41 carriages to that. Then, we will start with the first new trains coming this year and they will be rolling out through 2025. We will, therefore, have 19 trains coming through in 2025. We will have a further 18 coming in 2026, all of which are five-car trains. All those trains will be added capacity. That will allow us then to cascade and put in bigger trains. It will allow us to take some of the trains that are on commuter routes now and put them on the likes of the Rosslare line and Waterford, Limerick, Sligo, Westport, etc. That is when the step change will come in late 2025-early 2026.

Okay. I thank Mr. Meade very much. Senator Craughwell said he would be brief and he would not use his time. He is actually on 12 minutes instead of ten.

I will finish up by saying that Mr. Meade did respond very quickly to the call for early morning trains from Ballina and he is to be complimented on that. I thank him.

We are looking for late-night trains to Ballina as well now at this stage. I thank Mr. Senator Craughwell for that. Substituting for Senator Boylan is her party colleague, Deputy O'Rourke.

I thank the witnesses. First of all, I am interested in the Navan rail line because I am Meath based. Mr. Meade touched on it earlier. Is it the case that consultants have been appointed or that they are to be appointed in early 2024? Can Mr. Meade outline what those consultant will do step by step? Will they deal with route selection, for example? How far are they funded? How far can we take this project until we need to go back for more funding?

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the Deputy. The Navan rail line is a new 40 km line from the M3 parkway north to Navan. The project development has commenced. We will be bringing it for approval right out to delivery in 2029 or 2030 with the line open. Mr. Hendrick might take the Deputy through the first three steps in that process because I do not have them clear in my head.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

That is no problem. We are appointing a design team. We are in a procurement process at the moment.

Iarnród Éireann does not have them appointed yet.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

That is correct. We are in a tendering process at the moment. We should expect to have them appointed in the summer.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

This summer, yes.

Right. I thought we heard it was early 2024 but we are now saying the summer.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

In the summer, yes, we are going to tap in with the money. We are mobilising a team ourselves dedicated to work on it, so it is not just a technical design consultancy.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

We are deploying our own staff as part of that project team. To explain the initial development process for the project, obviously, the Deputy is right. We will go through an optioneering process where we will look at the concept and feasibility and the different possibilities in terms of the routes. We will look at selecting the preferred most viable option. That will involve extensive public consultation and a lot of public consultation sessions with all of the constituents and stakeholders.

There are questions about east of Dunshaughlin and west of Dunshaughlin.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

That is correct. I grew up in Dunshaughlin so I probably have a conflict of interest in one sense in that I would prefer it in Dunshaughlin.

Fair play. Mr. Hendrick really wants to put a stop there.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

That is it. It is certainly a project about which I am going to be very passionate. I have been involved in rail projects all my career over the past 20 years so I would love to see this delivered all the way, suffice to say. The development process will take us through from the summer out to the end of 2025 when we get to the point of looking at what that preferred solution is. At that point in time, we will put together a business case. We will have to put the business case forward to the Department to get the approval to continue through that development process to take it all the way up to a planning submission, which will most likely be a railway order application to An Bord Pleanála.

What is the timeline on a business case at the end of 2025 to 2026 and then a railway order?

Mr. Paul Hendrick

We would be hoping to be able to submit and, if we can get the approval from the Government to proceed with the submission, proceed with the railway order into 2026.

Does that require a financial commitment on behalf of the National Transport Authority, NTA, or the Department?

Mr. Paul Hendrick

It gives us a commitment to go to that next stage in order that we can go through the process with An Bord Pleanála like we are doing with the DART+ programme at the moment and similar to what MetroLink is doing as well.

The railway order might take one year or 18 months.

Mr. Jim Meade

Potentially, yes.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

Yes, potentially. Obviously, there have been some challenges there in terms of having the flow of work.

Hopefully, by 2026 or 2027 we will be in a better place in that regard. Is that then the green light for construction if Iarnród Éireann gets it through?

Mr. Paul Hendrick

That gives us the green light, so we will be able then to go to tender to the market for the works contractors to deliver the scheme.

What sort of timeline to build would Mr. Hendrick see for a project like this 40 km?

Mr. Paul Hendrick

We would see it in the order of three to four years from starting to getting it finished.

Mr. Paul Hendrick

Really, what I would always say to people is that it is all about framing the timeline to build it. When we have the planning permission and a full Government investment decision to actually appoint the contractors, then we are into a secure timeline because it is now being delivered

In terms of where this sits, a couple of things are related. I thank Mr. Hendrick for that answer. As this sits at the minute in the greater Dublin area transport strategy, it is post 2031 and medium-term 2031 to 2036. Then, coupled with that, we have news reports about significant inflation. Iarnród Éireann knows all about that in terms of the budgetary envelope in the national development plan out to 2030. The Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, reported just before Christmas that it could be a €30 billion shortfall across all transport projects. That is before we include Navan rail and the western rail corridor. Mr. Meade might give me sense of what he needs to see in financial terms. Is it survival of the fittest on these projects in that whichever ones come through planning are dealt with and then become the ones that Iarnród Éireann brings to the Government with a business case? At the same time, I presume Iarnród Éireann needs the financials to be in place from the Government. None of these projects will get delivered if there is not Government support. Is that generally the picture?

Mr. Jim Meade

Broadly, it is. However, it is not so much the survival of the fittest. What does "correctly planned" mean? For us, it is about having that pipeline correct. In the past, we did not have that pipeline correct and it was stop-start. Now, however, by setting up the capital investment team within Iarnród Éireann, we have a whole suite of projects. We have a constant iterative process with the NTA and the Department on costs. We know what has happened in the past couple of years and we are steadying those down again now. Mr. Hendrick's team would on an ongoing basis do programme costs for the NTA and Department of Transport to say this is what we know and this is the vista we have in front of us. There is a constant re-evaluation of cash flows and what needs to go next.

What the Government decides to fund is the Government's call. What we do is keep it well informed of where we are with the project and what the next steps are. There are certain gateways we have to go through as part of the public spending code. Therefore, we go through those gateways and there are no surprises. One thing we do quite well, if I say so myself, is that we do not give the Department or the Government surprises. We give them schedules and show them what is coming. We agree with them what the projects are and then we agree the funding streams.

I thank Mr. Meade very much for that. Picking up on a point he made earlier, Mr. Meade said there is an appreciation within the Department that if the lifecycle costs are factored in, this is actually a good investment. I think he used the word "cheap", but I appreciate the point.

I raised with the NTA, as I do a regular basis, the option of heavy rail. The thing I keep hearing back from the NTA is that this stuff is breathtakingly expensive. Is Irish Rail appropriately assessing this stuff in terms of the carbon impact and the lifecycle impact of it? Does Mr. Meade have a sense that there is a step change in thinking in the Department and, more importantly for me, in the NTA, on the role of heavy rail?

Mr. Jim Meade

I think there is. In fairness to all parties, the challenge we have is what value we can get now. Some of the heavy rail projects have a long timeline, as we have outlined. One of the things the Department and the NTA also look at is whether we can get more value out of doing something slightly differently upfront. The numbers can look large, but I would not have said breathtakingly expensive

Those are not my words.

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, people have their opinions, that is for sure. We do know that anywhere heavier infrastructure is put in, it gets used and indeed overused. I give the example of the Crossrail project in London. That was going to do them for ten years. In due course, the committee will have our chair designate, who was heavily involved in the project. Some 18 months in, they are at capacity. It has outstripped what they planned for.

To the substantive part of the Deputy's question, we are getting a fair hearing. There are other competing projects. That is where the debate comes in, as to whether we should spend it on heavy rail, light rail, bus or active travel. We would say that as a country we need to do all of these things. Then that comes down to a cash flow and we also have to be realistic We cannot just keep shovelling money over the fence at everything. It is a matter of getting the balance right and identifying the projects that will deliver. I think the Navan line is one of those that will deliver. It will be heavily used and it will justify its investment.

It is positive to hear from Mr. Meade that he is ambitious for that project and that he is planning to deliver it as quickly as possible. There are a number of junctures at which Irish Rail will go to Government in 2026 and, in my opinion, the Government of the day needs to be ready to support the project and deliver it as quickly as possible.. There is an indication it could be delivered by 2029 or 2030, which is significantly in advance of what is referenced in the greater Dublin area transport strategy. That is positive news for me and I am sure for the commuters in County Meath, Dunshaughlin included.

I welcome Mr. Meade, Mr. Hendrick and Mr Kenny. Mr. Meade began his presentation by mentioning his staff. I find them to be outstanding. I take the train regularly and they are the friendly face of the organisation. I left Colbert Station in Limerick at 6.40 this morning. There were a lot of bleary-eyed people who are not used to getting up too early, but staff are always there with a smile and a professional air. They focus on getting everything out of the station on time, safely and in a very orderly fashion.

On the HR angle, maybe some of the members do or do not know that Jim Meade started his career in Irish Rail as an apprentice mechanic. I just want to say that I think that is a fantastic journey in any organisation to go from apprentice level. As politicians we are always saying that there are many routes into an organisation. To start at apprentice level and work the whole way up to chief executive is a fabulous passage and a journey that other organisations should try to replicate

I do want to cut you off, but I think his CIE group has a history of that. Others in Dublin Bus and CIE group started at the coalface, if you like, and worked their way up to the very top.

It allows the management to resonate with staff within the organisation, so well done.

I have quite a number of points and I want to go through them nice and quickly if that is possible. On that 6.40 a.m. train there were three carriages, A, B and C. It was lovely and quiet until we got beyond Thurles. Then we picked up in Ballybrophy. There were stops in Portlaoise and Portarlington. It becomes chaotic every morning the further up the line one goes because people are using the train to get in to Dublin for the 9 o'clock work start. It is lovely and quiet leaving Limerick and into Tipperary and then it turns to mayhem. It is devastating then when one pulls into Heuston station and sees carriages parked up around the yard. I am wondering why that train cannot have five or six carriages. There were people standing, not just at the end of carriages, but holding onto chairs and tables for an hour or an hour and a half as they made their way to Dublin. All I am asking is that Irish Rail please consider putting additional carriages on those early morning services.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the Deputy for his kind words of introduction. They are appreciated. "Yes" is the short answer. I mentioned earlier that we have 41 ICR carriages on which we are expecting approval from the CRR by the middle of next month. Those are the services on which they will be put. They are ICR carriages like the Deputy travelled on this morning. We do have that issue with commuters using those services and I use them regularly myself, so I fully appreciate what the Deputy is saying. As we roll out the 41 ICRs we will add capacity. However, I think we will still have the issue. We will still have people standing from the likes of Ballybrophy, Portlaoise and Portarlington in to Dublin. It is just the nature of things. It is a good commute and a fast one, so people will do it. It will be two to three years before we really get to the point where people will not have to stand.

I just think that if the last trains out of Heuston Station at night time brought an extra carriage to Ceannt Station or Colbert station, it would mean that the morning trains could bring them back up to headquarters. I think it could work. I have quite a number of other small points I want to mention.

There is fabulous work going on in Colbert Station in Limerick. The old cargo crane has been there for years. I do not think it was a very old piece of equipment when it became redundant but I would love to know what is happening with this. Surely it could be repurposed. Perhaps it could be used again or perhaps it could be scrapped. There is surely value to it but at the very least, it is an eyesore.

The other issue in Colbert Station is the car parking. The new car park is fabulous, but already it gets filled up. Is anything going to happen in this regard?

We are all green. We all might not be politically green, but we are all living kind of green lifestyles these days. When I get off the train at Colbert station there is a dry waste recycling facility, but there is not the same thing at Heuston Station where there is just a bin. I mentioned this the last time Irish Rail was before the committee. It would be lovely to have rubbish segregation at the other end as well.

Mr. Jim Meade

That is something I am sure we can do so. We will take that away and have a look at it. Regarding the old freight crane, we are talking with the Land Development Agency, LDA, about developing the site further, which is one of the things that they have to discuss as well. The structure of the crane is very safe. There were even talks of making it a viewing platform, giving a vista over Limerick. Some years ago there was consideration of whether it could be used elsewhere. The cost of taking it down and rebuilding it somewhere else is as much as a new crane, so the companies that looked did not want to use it for that purpose.

We recognise the issues with the car park. The Deputy has probably seen that where the old bus station was is now being redeveloped. The car park is going to come all the way down to the old front gate, so that capacity will be added to the car park.

Mr. Jim Meade

The early birds like the Deputy on the earlier trains, the 5.25 a.m. or the 6.15 a.m., which I tend to get myself, will be parking close to the station and then others will move up through it.

To the Deputy's earlier comment on the spare carriages and Heuston, they are just the trains that arrive before the Deputy. They get lifted from the platform to allow other trains to come in, so they are not sitting there overnight. They have already carried loads of people in that morning

Regarding the Shannon rail spur, there is really positive news happening in the suburban Limerick area and that Foynes line is very good. However, many people in Clare are wondering about this rail spur, not just to Shannon Airport, but also to Shannon town and the industrial zone. How realistic does Mr. Meade think that is and what kind of safeguarding is being done in terms of keeping the route line there so that it is available in the future?

Mr. Jim Meade

As I mentioned earlier in my opening comments, the Shannon rail link is part of the Limerick-Shannon metropolitan area transport strategy. It is called out in that as a line item. That whole strategy is to look at the feasibility of whether the link to the airport is viable or not. It is also in the All-Island Strategic Rail Review as a link to the airport. A study was done back in the early 2000's that identified the ideal route and preserved it, so Clare County Council has that on its records .

Is it five years or ten years away, or is it in dreamland at the moment?

Mr. Jim Meade

It depends on what we as a nation, or what the Government decides post the All-Island Rail Review. If the Government decides that it wants it and it is going to do it, then it is a five- to six-year timeline.

Could I next ask about Crusheen Station? I was a councillor at the time, but I remember TDs scrambling to announce money, funding and a station to be built that would be a stop going up to Galway. Where exactly is that at?

We have one in Clare, Councillor Pat Hayes, who constantly advocates this, as do I. There is a real lobby group. Crusheen is one of those communities that would be viable to live in. The census identified that it has the youngest population in the mid-west.

If I can finish, living in that community is viable if you are going to college in UL. You can nip into Limerick and up to Galway. You can live there and work or study elsewhere. I would love to hear where that stands.

Deputy Crowe's colleagues, newly co-opted Councillor Rita McInerney and Councillor Tony O'Brien, both contacted me about the Limerick-Ennis rail resilience. They mentioned the Crusheen-Ennis spur link to Shannon and so on. Clearly the people and Councillors in Clare are very interested in rail services. It is not only Deputy Crowe.

The Leas-Chathaoirleach might add some time because I have more to get through.

I am always willing to facilitate Deputy Crowe, as he is well aware.

Mr. Jim Meade

Crusheen is not currently in the plan. It has been well flagged by the Deputy and some of his colleagues, but it is not currently in the funded plan we have from the Department. It is part of the all-island review. If the decision is taken to add a station there, it could be one of the quick wins of the review. Before the financial crash, a station design was drawn up for it, so it is with Mr. Hendrick's section. It can be done, but it is a Government decision as to whether it will be funded.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for extending me some latitude. I understand there has been a budgetary overrun on the national train control centre. Where is it at and who is picking up the tab? All of us here have a rudimentary knowledge of what is going on. The old points levers are well and truly gone. We have an automated system. For the laypeople, and we are laypeople, - I certainly do not have an engineering background - what efficiencies will the facility bring when it opens and at what cost? Are there safety issues? Will providing this infrastructure get us to the point we have all been talking about, with perhaps more night trains and the passing lines. Will it co-ordinate all of that? We would love to know a little more about it.

Mr. Jim Meade

Anyone who uses Heuston Station, like Deputy Crowe does, will see the lovely building on the left as they approach with our name up in lights, namely, the NTCC. It is a piece of national infrastructure that was built during the Covid-19 pandemic. What will it be? All the signalling of all trains across the network will come into one centre. It is a state-of-the-art centre. When it opens in quarter 3 of 2025, it will be the most modern in Europe. We are taking a massive leap in technology. It is cloud based. I probably should have put this into my opening statement. It would be good for the committee to come and have a look. We talk a lot about investment and what we can and cannot deliver, but it would bring the documents to life. I extend an invitation to the committee to come and see the national train control centre if it suited some time. All that happens anyone who comes in there------

We would be more than willing to take up the invitation. I certainly would be, whether we all go or we go individually, we would very happy to do it.

Mr. Jim Meade

Whatever works for the committee will work for us. We will make it happen. All anyone who has been to see it has said when they came out was "Wow, we did not realise what you were doing".

To go back to the Deputy's substantive question, it will be one source of the truth for everything to do with the railway. Customer services is there, as is all the activity of managing and manoeuvring trains. All the signalling locations around the country will come back in there. All train activities will be managed from there. The contract for it was signed a few weeks before Covid-19 hit us. We had to stand back and re-design how we would deliver it. We delivered the building a few weeks late. We added a floor for An Garda Síochána because it needed to get out of Harcourt Street. An Garda Síochána is now on the third floor. Its call centre for Dublin is there, which is another state-of-the-art centre. It is a demonstration of great collaboration between the OPW, the NTA, ourselves and An Garda Síochána and shows how State agencies can work together. That facility is a multigenerational facility.

Has it cost more than was intended?

Mr. Jim Meade

We are within the broad parameters. If the Deputy is referring to the report at the weekend, it was misleading. It is not two years late. We expected to get it up and running last November and to start migrating the various routes into it. The latest date is March. By then, we will have all the technology in it and then we will start migrating route by route. It will take, as Mr. Hendrick said, up to quarter 3 of 2025 to get them all in.

This must be the Deputy's final question.

Yes, it is my final question. I find trains to be a safe, efficient and fabulous way to travel. More people should be on them. On a very rare occasion - once - I had to make a 999 call from the train because of the actions of another passenger. Occasionally, you see someone losing the rag or someone who is possibly under the influence of drugs, but it is tricky to go down to the bathroom or to the other end of the carriage to make a call. It would be great if there was a text facility to be able to text - there is a new name for the person who travels on the train.

Mr. Jim Meade

The host.

Yes. It would be great if there was a text facility on board so you could say there was trouble in carriage D or if An Garda Síochána need to intervene at the next station, that there would be a more discreet way of doing it. It is pretty difficult to make a call or to get a message out of a train when you are shuttling along down the track.

Mr. Jim Meade

We will certainly take that on board.

The point is well made.

I thank the witnesses for all their work.

Like previous speakers, I acknowledge all the work Irish Rail is undertaking. It is much appreciated.

My first question relates to providing further insight into passenger journeys per route. Has Irish Rail seen an increase in demand in certain services compared with pre-Covid-19 pandemic times, specifically on the intercity routes in the west of Ireland? How has that impacted on planning for increased capacity?

Mr. Jim Meade

The short answer is "Yes". On our intercity routes we are now carrying numbers in excess of those we were carrying before the Covid-19 pandemic. We are particularly seeing that in the west of Ireland on the Galway, Sligo and Westport routes. We are seeing it across all routes. Some of the early morning Cork services, as Deputy Crowe alluded to, are full and passengers are standing by the time they get to Heuston Station.

We have 41 new carriages coming on stream. When we ordered those carriages in 2019, we were planning to put them on commuter trains around Dublin. We are now working with the NTA, which we meet on a regular basis, on the best allocation of those carriages. The majority of them will go onto the regional and intercity routes as that is where the demand is now. Intercity is beyond where it was. The demand on the commuter belt is now back to just under where we were before the Covid-19 pandemic because of blended working. The DART system has a little less demand. There are a lot of white-collar workers on the DART who do blended working, so it is at a little more than 90% of where it was. Certainly, the demand is on the intercity routes and that is where we will try to concentrate the new carriages.

Does Irish Rail have any plans to add to the 41 intercity carriages that have already been purchased?

Mr. Jim Meade

They are diesel traction, so "No" is the short answer, because we want to move into the battery-electric arena and to continue to electrify.

Has Irish Rail ordered battery-electric carriages?

Mr. Jim Meade

We have ordered 185 of those vehicles. They will go into the greater Dublin area and that will allow us to cascade other fleet. We will increase the frequency on all those routes, especially Sligo, Westport and Galway. We will concentrate on those first.

As other colleagues said, there are real capacity challenges at peak times. I am specifically talking about the Westport and Ballina routes from Heuston Station. While we had the positive news of an extra late service from Athlone to Westport and Ballina, it does not negate the challenges in Heuston Station for an additional late evening service. What is the timeline? Mr. Meade spoke previously about the intention of Irish Rail to increase the delivery of a late evening service. Can he give us an estimated timeline for when we will see this being implemented?

Mr. Jim Meade

It will be in 2026, because we will roll out the new fleet in 2025 and 2026 and that will allow us to cascade. It will be 2026 before you see us moving to hourly services and a real enhancement. It will be incremental. It will not be a big bang, because as we start to bring in the additional trains, we can start cascading. It will be a process that builds up.

Mr. Meade talked previously about sweating the assets. Will he expand on how that is done, because there is still commentary that Irish Rail could continue to do more in that regard. People need clarity on why no additional services are being put in place.

Mr. Jim Meade

How do we sweat the assets? We just try to run them more. What catches people out sometimes is that there is a return leg on everything. If we run a train to Cork, we have to get it back in order to have it somewhere else. For example, we are running an extra service to Cork, but that means we have taken a train, we are running it down earlier and running it back, and we are taking out some of our resilience. If we have a failure now in Cork, where anything happens to any of the early morning trains, we have to start back-pedalling straight away. We do not have any capacity to drop in another train to rescue that service. It is about running the existing fleet so we have more, while recognising that it has to work into a linking system. If we have a spare train at Heuston, we can run it to Galway, but then where is its next leg? Where was it supposed to go? Can it get to Galway and back before it does the journey we want it to do? That is what we do when we sweat the asset.

Mr. Meade also talked about frequency of services. The expectation is to increase the frequency of services to a two-hourly service for services such as the Westport line, and an hourly service for cities. When will we see that being implemented?

Mr. Jim Meade

There are two parts to getting all that done. We need the fleet to be able to do it but on certain routes, of which Westport is one-----

Are we are an outlier?

Mr. Jim Meade

We are not an outlier but we need extra pieces of infrastructure at certain points just so trains can pass each other out. As the Deputy knows, west of Portarlington it is all single line to Galway and Westport. We are in the process of designing that timetable, which will tell us where those conflicts are. That will be part of the early-----

Can Mr. Meade give an indication-----

Mr. Jim Meade

-----wins out of the review.

Can Mr. Meade give us an indication of when these key pieces of infrastructure will be introduced? When will a two-hourly service, such as that to Sligo and other areas, be implemented?

Mr. Jim Meade

We are working towards 2027 to have the extra infrastructure and extra fleet in place.

Another issue that comes up on the doorsteps is the resumption of catering services. Mr. Meade talked about the Cork line. Will he expand on lessons learned on the Cork line when the service was reintroduced? The Westport to Dublin line takes three hours and 22 minutes. That is a long time without any hospitality services. When does Mr. Meade expect the procurement process to end? When will we see the resumption of catering services?

Mr. Jim Meade

We expect to be in a position by early summer, maybe mid-June, to have that tendering process back in. That will indicate the costs. We would like to then go live on every route but we will start looking at a hierarchy of routes, if we do not have enough money to do everything. We would then start looking at the longer haul routes, absolutely. The ideal scenario for us is to get catering on all the regional routes together. That is our ambition and what we are trying to do. That is what we briefed the NTA on. The NTA knows the range of costs that came in previously. Those were not in the most recent budget and the NTA knows we will try to budget for more. We do not expect the cost to come back down just because people realise they can get the service again. It will be more expensive. We just have to accept that.

Is Irish Rail just delaying the inevitable that there will be a budgetary line item in relation to this?

Mr. Jim Meade

No, because it is part of the offering people want, just as they want customer service on board and just as we have to get security right. Those are added costs we have taken on board. We recognise that we need to do it because it is part of the offering of an intercity rail service.

The western rail corridor is a big issue in the west of Ireland. Many Deputies and Senators are very supportive of it. How is progress on line clearance of that line going? We previously met Mr. Meade regarding protection of the line north of Claremorris in February last year. What is Irish Rail's position on it? Does it want to protect the line?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, absolutely. We want and intend to protect the line for rail use first and foremost. We started clearing and de-vegetation of the line before Christmas. We will do a certain amount of it within the current season. I think we have to have it done by March. Beyond that, we do not have any funding from the Department at present to start rehabilitating the line. That decision still needs to be made.

To go back to a previous comment, I was a little disappointed to hear Sinn Féin float a hard rail solution for Dublin Airport, or the spur out to Clongriffin as it was known. While that solution might meet the needs of airport users, it would not meet those of towns such as Swords and Ballymun, or DCU. That is why MetroLink is on the table. It has been tested against all the other options. Hard rail would not fix the congestion on the M1 corridor either.

We also have congestion on the northern line as it exists at present. That is another impact. What are the plans to remove congestion on the northern line as it exists? New carriages are on order. There has been a massive population increase along the coast as far as Drogheda and electrification of the line, but we still just have those two tracks linking Dublin and Belfast. What are Irish Rail's plans as regards congestion?

One of the questions I get regarding the new carriages on order is whether there will be toilet facilities on them. Some of the commuter line commuters are concerned that the service might diminish in that regard. If Mr. Meade will answer that, I have two more issues to raise after that.

Mr. Jim Meade

I will start with the Deputy's comment on the metro. We need to be clear; we say that we absolutely need the metro. There is no question.

It is not A or B. It is both.

Mr. Jim Meade

It is not A or B. It is both. In the context of the earlier question, that is why consideration of both is in the all-Ireland strategic review. It is certainly not an either-or. We have all moved to the understanding that we need both. The metro is needed and there is also an option to put heavy rail in, if so required.

There are two elements to the capacity issue. We have got connecting Europe facility, CEF, funding from the EU for a project we call FourNorth, which is about adding two more tracks going north because it is a very heavily congested line. We are also talking about more Belfast services. That corridor needs extension, as the project title indicates. We got 50% EU funding from the most recent CEF call. The Department has put its 50% in and we are now ahead with that project.

On the question around the new fleet, there are no toilets in the new fleet as ordered, but we have made provision for them on a modular basis. We can add them to further orders for the fleet and retrofit them to the first orders if we need to. It is a balance between what is best capacity and toilet provision. The option is there to do so.

The option is there. Brilliant. I will briefly focus on Portmarnock Station. A lot of work is going on there at present. It is great to see the development taking place as the population in the area has increased. I have made some requests, along with my council colleague, regarding the moving of validation poles, which has been done. I ask for an update on the work being done at the train station and how it is moving. Is it ahead of schedule? It includes the car park facilities. The second pin to that question is whether there is an update on bringing the old bridge linking the station to Drumnigh Manor into use again, as an active travel measure for a new growing area.

Many people in Portmarnock are finding it easier to get to Malahide to use the train station there as opposed to the one at Portmarnock, possibly due to the buses flowing that way more easily. Has Irish Rail done any analysis, maybe in conjunction with the bus providers, on whether we are maximising Portmarnock train station for residents? Are we pushing people to another train station because complementary public transport services are going that way?

Mr. Jim Meade

The Portmarnock car park development is going well. I am happy to report it is on schedule and on programme. It will be a significant enhancement to that station. I am not familiar with the bridge and neither is Mr. Hendrick. We will take that away and look at it for the Deputy because it is not on my radar.

On the Malahide-Portmarnock piece, the new BusConnects route will connect them. We are looking at it from the integrated transport model perspective. In fairness to the NTA, it always has a weather eye on how the whole thing works, including Dublin Bus, ourselves, Bus Éireann and active travel, and all fits together.

The BusConnects route is what will decongest that more than anything.

There is a concern that the way BusConnects is set up it will not work. We might keep that under our watch with Dublin Bus because it would be better to see people who live in Portmarnock being able to get to their local station.

I have a few questions on the Barrow Bridge and Rosslare line. Does Mr. Meade have a timetable for the repair of the bridge? Does he have an update on the process of recovering repair costs from the owners of the two crafts which struck the bridge? The rail strategy review prioritised the restoration of the Rosslare-Waterford railway line before 2030? Has Irish Rail management discussed this recommendation? What is its view on how to action this? Will it be delivered in that timeframe?

Mr. Jim Meade

The Barrow Bridge was struck not once but twice by two ships over a short period. We had CCTV on the bridge so were able to identify both ships and their insurers. We have put the insurers on notice and are working through that process with them. They are waiting for us to come back with the costings and the breakdown of them. There was a lot of work to be done. Working in the river and in a marine area, there were certain things we had to do. We had to procure specialist consultants and do topographical and barometric surveys. We needed to do some ground investigations. We had an archaeological survey to do, even though it is there a long time. We have some preliminary design works. All of that has been moving along as per plan. We detailed a plan before. The works and timelines we committed to originally to some of the Deputy's colleagues have been substantially completed. We are working up the designs and costings to go back to the insurers to get the costings out of them. As part of that, we will not be getting this from insurers but we want to automate it because it is a manual operation today. When we bring it back into service, it will probably be controlled from the NTCC, which will be a significant improvement.

There is a plan to bring back the south Wexford line, as we call it. We are looking at how to bring it back into service. There is a plan to bring it back in the all-Ireland strategic rail review. We will be working to the timeline in that. We do not have a date pegged in the ground yet as to when it goes back into service but it is intended the bridge will be ready for when the line goes back into service.

I thank Mr. Meade, his senior management team and all his team for today and in general. They have been receptive to us on individual queries and that is appreciated. Generally, the story of Irish Rail is a good news one and is going in the right direction. It is nice to see that and support it where we can.

Agreed. It is all very positive, but there is clearly a demand for even more progress and services for people all over the country.

Mr. Meade and his team are welcome. They are always willing to engage and come into the committee, as well as at local authority level. I was at Wicklow County Council when his team came in. It was the first time I floated the idea of the DART extension to Wicklow town. I am glad to see it is making progress. At the start, the Leas-Chathaoirleach provided a litany of what some people might call complaints or concerns-----

They were not really complaints as much as they were----

I was going to qualify that by saying, in a way-----

There is a great appetite for information, though.

-----it is listing out the expectation, ambition and desire people have across the country for better rail services. What we are hearing today from Irish Rail is a good story for the future of rail transport, including freight, and will assist us in our climate challenge. That is a primary focus, though it has not been mentioned today except in Mr. Meade's opening statement. The Cork commuter project that is ongoing is transformative for rail transport in Cork. That five- and ten-minute service from Midleton, Cobh and Mallow will massively benefit the people of Cork. There is also the Galway line upgrade and the work to be done in Limerick. No doubt my colleague, Deputy Leddin, as, hopefully, future mayor of Cork, will be leading that delivery.

Limerick, even.

I do not think Cork and Limerick could have a shared mayor.

They can shake hands at the Cork-Limerick border with that rail line. It is fantastic to hear every Deputy come in here and talk about Navan lines, Cork extensions, Galway extensions, late-night services, more trains, better services and cheaper fares. We must remember the context of decades of underinvestment in public transport, which turned in 2020 with the programme for Government commitment of a 2:1 expenditure on public transport over new roads. One of the most important things for rail projects is certainty of investment and budgets, as well as confidence. They are long projects which last decades or a century. An investment in rail is an asset that will serve us for decades but we need certainty to deliver, design, build and maintain those projects. For future governments, that 2:1 spend must be maintained. That has to be a priority. Companies like Irish Rail need that certainty in budgets and support from government policy for those projects. Stop-start policy changes destroy those long-term ambitions.

I have three questions. One is on freight and another is on staff capacity. Our colleagues from bus services were in recently and talked about driver training and retention. At the other end, when a piece of machinery is in operation for 18 or 20 hours per day, a good maintenance programme is needed for reliability. I also want to talk about heritage on the railway, which is an aspect we do not often talk about.

On the freight study, freight has been in decline for 40 years. It was a big part of how we got goods around the country. What is Irish Rail's vision for freight? What can we bring to the delivery of freight in this country?

Mr. Jim Meade

The Deputy is correct that freight was a major part. At one stage we were doing 13% of the freight in the country; we are now doing 1%. Our vision is to get into the mid-teens area of activity for freight. That is a big programme of work and will take time to deliver. When taking a piece of freight from A to B anywhere in the country by road or rail, rail has an 80% lower carbon footprint. We have detailed in our freight strategy where and how we connect with ports and how we can do the heavy trunking to ports.

We have done many detailed studies with industry to understand who now wants to use freight. Twenty years ago people would argue it cost 50c per tonne more by rail than by road, so they went by road. Now we see from our detailed research with several areas of industry that they need and want to decarbonise for their CSR. There is a large organisation in the mid-west which has asked us to please put its containers on our train. They are almost saying they do mind the cost because their global headquarters are saying they have the worst carbon footprint of any of their facilities. They want to put their products on rail to reduce their carbon footprint. We see that in the agrifood and farm industries, where people want to move to rail. Some commentators say Ireland is too short of a haul for rail. It is not. If you go into big aggregates, like when we used to carry coal or whatever, you need big trains. We used to carry barytes to Foynes, shale out to the cement factory and gypsum across the country but now there is an awful lot of container movement in the country and that can move by rail. Shannon Foynes Port is interested in container traffic and getting empty containers into Foynes to ship back out to wherever. There is a lot of traffic on offer, we believe. The studies we have done tell us that. There is a significant carbon reduction in moving by rail, a significant reduction in kilometres done on our roads and a contribution to the driver age profile of the HGV industry, which is quite high. There are benefits all round.

The western rail corridor connection from Claremorris to Athenry and the reconnection of Waterford to Wexford would appear to make sense from a freight perspective, so it is not all going through Kildare and Dublin.

Mr. Jim Meade

Absolutely, because of the fact it is a less congested area.

Perhaps we could talk about the driver training programme. More fleet equipment can be ordered and built. There is a lead-in time, but it can be delivered over time. If the drivers are not in place, though, there is not much point in having extra trains. How is recruitment for drivers, as well as for maintenance staff and apprentices, progressing? We hear this is challenging.

Mr. Jim Meade

It is challenging. Everybody is fishing in a small pool for staff. I am happy to report we are having reasonable success with our recruitment campaigns. The younger cohorts, in particular, see the green credentials of a company like ours and what we are doing. We do not have a major problem getting staff. It is probably becoming more onerous now to get specialist staff in Mr. Hendrick's area than front-line staff. We have embarked on a campaign for several years now to grow our own staff and to add to the driver cohorts, and we are getting them. We recognised we were going to be bringing a lot of new technology into play over the years to come, so we started an apprentice programme several years ago. We also initiated a women in leadership programme, because the rail industry has been heavily male-dominated for generations. That was the way it was, but we are trying to grow that women in leadership programme. It has grown very successfully. Our intake for the last three or four years has hovered around 20%. We want to get it to at least 25% and 30% over the next several years.

The I Wish foundation will be running a showcase conference shortly and we are now one of the sponsors of that event. I will be speaking at it. Young women from all over the country will be coming on trains to the RDS to showcase promoting science, technology, engineering and mathematics, STEM, subjects. We will be running special STEM trains and showing them what we do and how we do it. We have our high potential people within the organisation as well. These are people who come in as drivers or customer service personnel, for example, but with high potential to move through the organisation. We have a programme for bringing them on. We also started a graduate programme. This is all about creating the workforce of the future, which is exactly what the Deputy is referring to, and having a supply chain of people coming through, not just at the front line but also at the junior and senior management levels as well, and even all the way up to my position, in respect of who the future CEOs will be.

That is very good to hear. It is forward-thinking. These people will be the staff of the future, including, perhaps, the future chief executive who will be sitting here at some point.

Turning to the heritage aspect of our railways, we talk about modernising the railway and the national train control centre, NTCC, for example. In this context, we have signal cabins around the country that are no longer in use but that are examples of fine architecture and beautifully decorative buildings. We have old stores along the lines as well as beautiful bridges and railway stations. There are some exquisite designs from Victorian times. I was speaking with my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who has responsibility for heritage and local government, about the development of a heritage policy for old railway infrastructure still be within the ownership of Irish Rail. Is there an existing heritage policy or is this something we could engage further on to consider developing such a policy for protecting, restoring and respecting this heritage the railway has?

Mr. Jim Meade

There absolutely is. We have a heritage policy. Even if we did not, we are obligated to act in this regard in the context of the local authorities. Many of our buildings are listed structures, even including some of the signal cabins mentioned by the Deputy, that we must maintain even if they go out of use. We are generally happy to do so. We look at repurposing buildings too. In Portarlington, we have just done a complete refurbishment of the old station house and some of our own people are going to use it so that infrastructure comes back to life. It is a beautiful, cut-stone building. In Galway, we repurposed the old engine shed from the Victorian era and it is now a staff facility for our drivers. We glazed the end of it looking out on Lough Atalia. There is a beautiful vista there now and we put the canteen in the upstairs level. We have, therefore, repurposed that old building and brought it back to life. There was a second area there as well. Bus Éireann saw what we were able to do, and now we are doing that for its staff too. We are investing significantly in Connolly Station, which is our headquarters, because again it is a national monument and we have responsibility to maintain it. In that context, we are repurposing some of the arches under station, as well as the interior of the building, to be able to get more densification and more bodies into the building. Indeed, we invested not an insignificant amount of money in the area under Connolly Station, where our group medical centre is now. The stone arches there are all beautiful. They exist because, as I referred to earlier, the railway is elevated right through the city centre. Our complete medical centre is now located in those arches. The building is probably going to win several awards this year for what we did with it, how we repurposed it into a medical centre and how we preserved all the architecture of that area.

I thank Mr. Meade. I failed to mention my own constituency but I trust all is in order with the DART extension to Wicklow town-----

We will have more queries from various councillors in Arklow and other places later. I thank Deputy Matthews. We move to the non-members of the committee who indicated to me earlier they would like to speak. I ask them to try to be as brief as possible to try to give everyone a chance. I call Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I welcome Mr. Meade. Unlike Deputy Matthews, I am going to start with all the local parochial, constituency stuff.

Deputy O'Sullivan will not be the first, that is for sure.

To be fair, I must say at the start that massive investment has gone into Cork. It is great to see such ambition, especially on the eastern line and the Mallow line as well. We are very appreciative of all the progress made.

Starting with the electrification of the track in Cork, it is great to see this happening. It has started. When are we likely to see electric locomotives and trains on the lines? Work on installing double-tracking has begun again in Kent Station. When is that likely to conclude? Turning to accessibility, Irish Rail is working on a lift at Little Island train station. This is great because it has always been difficult for people there with disabilities, prams or whatever. There is an issue, though, with the lift in Glounthaune station. I think it might be related to a planning issue concerned with the station being in a special area of conservation, SAC. I ask Mr. Meade to clarify at what stage this project is at.

We got welcome news a few weeks ago too about Monard. It is an area outside of Blarney where we hope a few thousand houses are going to be built. The initial phase of this project at Monard has been announced. It has come through the planning process. The developer there is eager to commence. Down the track, pardon the pun, there is a plan to have a rail station there. Where does this appear on Irish Rail's timelines? I am not going to hold Mr. Meade to any of these time scales. It would be good, though, if he could share an indicative timeline with us. From speaking to people in Cork, the stations in Blackpool and Tivoli, especially, are probably ahead of the project at Monard. It would be good if Mr. Meade could give us an update on the new stations and their roll-out.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the Deputy. We see Cork as almost a template for the other regional cities because it is moving so well. There are three work packages in Cork, as I mentioned earlier in my introduction. Regarding all three work packages, the target date when we set up this programme, which was several years ago, was 2026. We are on schedule to meet it. As the Deputy will probably know, the rail order came through before Christmas. It came through earlier but the procurement standstill period meant it was finalised just before Christmas. We are now concerned with building that double track out to Midleton. That rail order was the first in more than a decade for rail and many more are going to come. This is indicative of where we are heading. The resignalling work on the platform in the station in Cork gives us the infrastructure to be able to run a high-frequency service, a ten-minute service, between Mallow, Cobh and Midleton. On electrification, the final decision has not been made yet. We have work packages one, two and three now. What we are doing in this regard is in the second tranche of work package endeavours. We have flagged it, we know what it is going to cost and we have it out there, but the final decision in this regard has not been made. All things being equal, however, the line will be electrified by 2030.

Turning to the project at Monard, as the Deputy will probably know, we are working very closely with Cork City Council and Cork County Council on the allocation of stations, including where they will go and how they will fit in together. I am happy to say there is a very strong working relationship between the two local authorities, ourselves and the NTA. As the Deputy will know as well, the NTA has collocated its team in Cork so that everyone will be working together to deliver that programme of work to be undertaken by the Irish Rail, the two local authorities and the NTA. On the timing of the Monard project itself, I do not know what that will be. The local authority will be very heavily involved in that decision. We are, though, ready, willing and able to build the station there. These stations get built to a template, so it will be just another headache to add to the list for Mr. Hendrick when the time comes. The work at Tivoli is currently ahead of that at Monard, but again that will be a call for all involved. There is no reason we could not build three stations together, by the way.

Is the funding in place for those new stations already?

Mr. Jim Meade

No. The funding is not in place for those new stations yet.

I refer to the accessibility issue on the line as well. Work was being undertaken at Ballynoe, in Cobh, as well.

Mr. Jim Meade

I am sorry. Little Island is nearly finished and I think and we will be opening it soon.

Yes.

There is an issue with the Glounthaune project. I do not think it has gone for planning permission yet.

Mr. Jim Meade

It is ready to go for planning but it has not been submitted yet.

If I may, I will ask one more supplementary on the light rail plan. This might be a bit more into the future, but is the intention to take the light rail in through Kent Station?

Mr. Jim Meade

Our preferred option is that it would come into Kent Station. This would mean there would be a transport hub, in the true sense of the word, at the station. That debate is still ongoing among all the interested parties. Cork City Council is very supportive of the idea that it would come all the way into Kent Station because you have the buses, the heavy rail and the light rail all there together.

What might the misgivings, by whoever, be about integrating the light rail?

Mr. Jim Meade

It is just a different opinion. Is it close enough with the other side of the river? Do we need to incur the costs of coming across the river or do we loop back around? It is things like that. It is just different opinions at this stage as to what is the best solution for it. We believe it should come into Kent Station. The CEO of Cork City Council thinks likewise.

I know the vast majority of people do. Hopefully we will see that.

I thank the Chair for allowing me to come in. I welcome yesterday's announcement that Irish Rail has commissioned a study that will look into the infrastructural improvements need to increase capacity on the Ennis to Limerick line. Additional resources to strengthen the rail infrastructure in Clare is always welcome. I look forward to seeing the results of that study. Is there any indication of a timeline for its expected completion? I hope the study will address the issues that have been identified to me so far with the proposal for a rail spur out to Shannon Airport. As I understand the matter, when this spur is completed, it will not be possible for trains to travel on the Ennis-Limerick and Shannon-Limerick lines at the same time. Is that the case? If so, has Irish Rail considered either a passing loop, a dynamic overtaking loop or a dual line to solve the problem?

I recently raised the possibility of extending the spur line out beyond Shannon to west Clare and Moneypoint because of the connectivity issues relating to west Clare. The west Clare railway was hugely successful at one time.

Irish Rail’s second announcement yesterday about QR code tickets was of great interest to me as someone who uses the train to get from Ennis to Dublin and back every week. I meet many of my Clare constituents doing the same. When will Irish Rail roll out the digital ticket service to all regional routes? What tech and infrastructural upgrades may be required to do so?

This has been a very interesting discussion. I have learned quite a lot about how Irish Rail can help with the reduction of the carbon footprint in terms of freight and about the women in leadership programme. The desire to increase that is positive.

Irish Rail has been pretty good about coming back to me if I raise an issue. It has not been something that it has been able to resolve straight away, the Irish Rail people have kept an eye on it. For example, last year, I raised the Sunday train service from Galway to Limerick that passes through Ennis. I have used the service many times. Because of all the students travelling to their accommodation on Sunday evenings, it gets extremely busy with people standing and so on. The provision of 41 extra carriages was mentioned. Have any of those been made available for this service?

Mr. Jim Meade

We expect to have the result of that study by about September-October. That will look at how best to increase the capacity on the line. To link in with the point about the Sunday trains, that capacity study will look at where we can best put in infrastructure that allows to put in a higher frequency on the whole route to Galway, not just the Limerick-Ennis part. The Limerick-Ennis part unlocks it because it is the longest section. It is a 40-minute section. Once a train enters it at either end, it is 40 minutes before you can do anything else. If we can cut that in half, it would increase the frequency significantly.

On the last part of the Deputy’s question, there are two issues: that of the western rail corridor but also that of platform lengths. One of Mr. Hendrick’s team is looking at that. As part of the study in that regard, four platforms, Sixmilebridge, one of the platforms in Gort, Craughwell and Ardrahan, will have to be extended. When the line was put in originally in 2007 or 2008, we placed the platforms in a position where we could extend them quite easily in the future. The study will identify what we need to do there. Then we need to see if we can get the funding to extend those platforms. The trains that are on it today are the longest trains we can operate on those. As we roll out the 41 ICRs which the Deputy mentioned, we cannot put any extra on that route because we can only put four-piece trains, or four carriages, because of the platform length. As we extend the platforms, we can add to that. We are looking at that maybe as a shorter term solution. If we get platform extensions we can get longer trains and in time we can add more passing loops to get the higher frequency into the route as a whole.

On the airport, as a young fellow in west Clare watching Moneypoint being built I would love to see a train going all the way back there. I am not sure if it will. The line to the airport certainly is an option. That is just how we do our planning. It is single track just beyond Limerick Station out to Ennis. You would be taking a single track off that, possibly. That would be part of the study to establish if we should do a double track into Shannon and where exactly do we come off, is it Cratloe or Sixmilebridge; do we go off at Cratloe and go through Bunratty because there is a very big tourist attraction there, Shannon town, Shannon industrial estate, the airport? How do you do that? The study process will identify those routes and where best to put them. Then for us it is just how we pass trains. From where you would be coming off at Sixmilebridge is about 15 or 18 minutes from Limerick. You would probably get the frequency you would want by leaving that single track and doing something double beyond it.

I appreciate that. The fact that there cannot be two trains on the line at the same time has been raised with me. There has to be a 90-minute gap just to allow one train to complete its journey. Anyone travelling from Limerick to Ennis town cannot make it before 9 a.m. for work unless they get the 6.16 a.m. train. I just wanted to mention that on behalf of my constituents.

I am happy that Crusheen was mentioned. It is something I have raised with Irish Rail before. Is it the case that no funding has been provided as yet and Irish Rail is looking at it? Is it just a funding issue?

Mr. Jim Meade

It is just a funding issue from the Department. When the Department decides, like our earlier conversation, where best to allocate the available funding to get the best result. It certainly can be done. We know we can physically do it. All the drawings are in place so it will be a funding issue. Going back to the Deputy’s final comment, once we do that study and put a passing loop wherever we put it, maybe SIxmilebridge, and break that section - in our jargon - and shorten it to 20 minutes, that will increase the frequency across the entire route.

I welcome our guests and join with colleagues in congratulating Irish Rail on all the work it is doing developing the pipeline of projects that have been explained in quite a lot of detail in the opening statement and the question and answer session we have had already.

The representatives from Irish Rail will probably agree with what I am about to say, but the matter to which it relates is not one on which the company can make a decision. When we talk about investment in infrastructure, we are talking about strategic planning for the future. We have a history in this country of deciding on infrastructure and accelerating plans in a very reactive way. We look at where the traffic is and where the population growth is happening and then we build infrastructure accordingly. We need to flip that. We need to decide the kind of country we want, where we want people living and what is best for the country as a whole. This discussion is very relevant to that. No other member has made that point. Infrastructure planning has to be strategic. It is important for me to say this and I am saying it to colleagues on the committee, to the civil servants in the Departments of housing, public expenditure and reform, transport and in the NTA.

There are critical infrastructure decisions to be made, particularly in transport, that will change how this country develops over the decades ahead. Rail has the power to fundamentally and positively change this country. I am very much speaking with respect to balanced regional development. At the risk of sounding parochial - and we can all be accused of that - the plan for Limerick, the mid-west and Clare, which is very much as important as Limerick in this conversation, presents an opportunity to invest in rail infrastructure in order that we see a shortening or a closing of the gap between the regions and the capital. That is the power we, as politicians, and the Government have. Rail is fundamental to that because it enables people to move around in an efficient manner. It is the way to go. It is the way we can facilitate the fastest and most effective growth among the regions.

Putting all local and parochial bias aside, given the current infrastructure, the potential for future infrastructure, the people we have, our natural resources and our geographical location, I would argue that the mid-west is strategically located and that the counterbalance to the east should be the mid-west. Rail infrastructure should be the key to making the mid-west the counterbalance.

It is in this context that the rail link to Shannon Airport is critically important. I do not want to hear talk about feasibility studies. We need to be talking about what kind of country we want to live in, where we want people to live, and what is best for the country as a whole. This includes what is best for Dublin as well. That is the power of investing in projects like the rail link to Shannon Airport and in the suburban network that is detailed in the Limerick-Shannon metropolitan area transport strategy. This is what we need to be talking about.

Going by the draft strategic rail review, the rail link to Shannon Airport is in there at €100 million to €200 million in 2021 prices. I acknowledge that those will perhaps have gone up. That is really not a lot of money for the kind of growth that it could deliver for the mid-west region and for its power to close the gap between the mid-west and the capital. The corridor largely is preserved. It could be done very quickly. It is for the Government, not Irish Rail, to make the decision. I know that Irish Rail would do it in the morning if the Government cleared the way. The Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, the NTA and the Department of Transport have key roles to play.

Critically, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage and his Department also have a key role to play. We have a housing challenge and our population is due to increase by 1 million by 2040. In the context of our national planning framework target, we must decide, from a strategic point of view, where those people are going to live. Do we do the reactive thing and build infrastructure because those people are naturally going to move to Dublin where the jobs are, or do we create the infrastructure to create the environment for job creation in our regions as well? This is what our Government should be doing. All politicians across the Oireachtas should recognise that this is not a parochial point. This is about developing our country in the right way for the decades to come.

I have very little time remaining and I want to list off a few really important points. I congratulate-----

I might give the Deputy a second round by the way.

I will certainly come back in. I want to mention the transport hub in Limerick that has only opened in the past few weeks. It is phenomenal in how it is changing our perception of public transport in the mid-west. I commend Irish Rail on its role in making that happen. I also commend it on putting in place the new early train service from Limerick to Cork. This issue has been raised with me on the doorsteps over many years. I thank Mr. Meade and his team for delivering. It really is changing how we think about intercity transport between the State's third and second cities.

I want to ask about the Ballysimon train project. There is potential there if we think about the big context whereby Limerick and the mid-west are growing at twice the rate of the capital. That is the national planning framework objective. We probably need to be talking about multiple stations on that line between Limerick and Limerick Junction, not just a park-and-ride facility. We need to look at where a lot of new developments are happening there. For example, there is the new Bon Secours Hospital, the new Educate Together school and the mixed-use development that was announced just last year. Northern Trust employs a few thousand people very near the train line. We should also be looking at where the Ennis branch meets Limerick Junction because it seems to make sense to look at development opportunities around there. This is not necessarily a matter for Irish Rail. Rather, it is for the Land Development Agency to look at how we can develop parcels of land around the locations at which we can build strategic train stations-----

Perhaps the Deputy will give the witnesses a chance to say something.

I will come back in for a second round.

Mr. Jim Meade

I agree with the earlier comments around infrastructure and the strategic importance of it. We have started with the study on Ballysimon, as we have in Moyross, but they are constituent parts of the overarching plan on what we can deliver under The Limerick-Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy 2040, or LSMATS. That strategy looks at all the rail infrastructure around Limerick and how that can contribute by giving connectivity to the hospital, to the shopping centres, to the Technical University Shannon and to Thomond Park, the spiritual home of rugby - I hope there are no Cork people here. We are absolutely about it. We have some funding already in place and we started the studies around Ballysimon Moyross. The LSMATS programme will enhance that further.

Can I ask about Ballycar and the flood challenge. I got the train up to Ennis lately and I could see the water levels rising before my eyes. This is a real risk that the line between Limerick and Galway could be knocked out because of increased rainfall due to climate change. It will be catastrophic if that line has to close because of flooding. I am aware that responsibility in this regard does not all lie with Irish Rail, but I would like Mr. Meade's view.

Mr. Jim Meade

Ballycar is filling up. It is a big turlough and it has only one outlet, which is underground. The project to solve it is developed and agreed between ourselves, Clare County Council, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the OPW. We know what it is. At this stage it is a funding issue for allocation of funding to the project.

So that would be the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform.

Mr. Jim Meade

I understand it is the Department of Transport initially.

The witnesses have great patience listening to this. I missed part of it because I was in another committee, so I hope I will not be repeating questions already asked. It is good to have Irish Rail officials back in to get an update. As my colleagues have said, it is mainly a good news story.

On a technical issue, is it the NTA that decides on the projects that get done or is it the Department of Transport?

Are they the same thing?

They are not. The NTA is a totally independent agency of government with its own board. The Department of Transport is answerable to the people through the Minister who is the sole corporation there. I want to know who gets to decide in reality where the money goes. Is it the NTA or the Government?

Mr. Jim Meade

It is the Government.

I am glad the marker is there but sometimes one gets the answer that this does not matter. Any time I ask the Minister anything he seems to refer the thing over to the NTA.

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes for any infrastructure development. For example, our funding comes from two streams. For the service delivery and for service operation, it is through the public service obligation and the NTA. When we are putting the timetable together for announcement, we go back to the NTA and say, for example, that it will be a later Cork area service, or a morning Cork service from Limerick and so on. We tell them the cost and they either say "Yes" or "No". That is for the PSO. For infrastructure, however, and the calls for funding for infrastructure, that comes from the multi-annual contract, MAC, into my director of infrastructure who looks after the day-to-day maintenance of the railway, or through capital into all the capital investment. This comes from the Department. Sometimes the Department will channel that through the NTA and asks them to manage it or supervise it for us.

So the NTA has the approval.

Mr. Jim Meade

From the Government yes.

So the NTA has the asset but the Department provides the asset.

Mr. Jim Meade

Correct. Yes.

We have talked this afternoon about expansion zones. Does Mr. Meade have any indication of how 2023 was compared with 2022 and how that figured out spatially across country?

In other words, if there was 10% growth or whatever, was that all on the east coast or was it spread across the country?

Mr. Jim Meade

We grew by 22% year on year from 2022 to 2023. We were still in recovery mode and we still had approximately 20% growth. It was predominantly intercity routes, which was the regions coming from and going to Dublin. All the intercity routes, bar none, are add more than 100% of where they were previously. We have three business units covering intercity, the commuter area and the DART. The commuter area within a radius of 60 km from Dublin to places such as Portlaoise and Longford was the next best it is probably between 95% and 98% depending on which route. The DART which is the electrified network on the east coast is only just over 90% because we still see a lot of white-collar blended working that. The regional routes into Dublin have shown by far the biggest growth.

Does that include Galway and Limerick?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, absolutely. Galway and Limerick in particular have grown quite well. I do not have the figures for Galway and Limerick in my head. The trains on those lines are very busy every day. There is a lot of student travel to the two universities. We mentioned Cork earlier. We also see it in Cork. Within three months of moving to a half-hourly service on the Cobh-Midleton route, it had grown by 40%. Where we have put in the service with the frequency, we are getting the growth.

Based on the Iarnród Éireann timetable, a number of lines still have two services a day each way. There are a number which have four or five services each way without enormous conglomerations, although if we take Waterford to Limerick the biggest inland town, Clonmel, is on that route. There is also Carrick-on-Suir and a number of other towns. With the same population when frequency is increased from, for example, three to five is there inevitably a dramatic growth in passenger numbers? If the service goes from five to ten, with the same infrastructure but more frequent service is the experience that the greater the frequency the more passengers, not only on the new services but also on the existing services because there is better choice?

Mr. Jim Meade

That happens once we add frequency and reliability. There are only three criteria to the business: capacity and whether we can carry the people and whether they will get seats; whether the service is frequent enough that it makes their decision process easy; and whether it is reliable. We spoke about capacity and having more trains earlier. Frequency is exactly what the Deputy is referring to. I use the Cork-Cobh-Midleton route as an example. We doubled the service by going from an hourly service to a half-hourly service and our patronage grew by 40% year on year. With new fleets we get reliability. We have pretty good reliability. Maybe self-praise is no praise, but we would say we have pretty good reliability and pretty good punctuality and people are using the service.

Mr. Meade already spoke about increasing the frequency and mentioned the Limerick and Galway routes. Since it is on the outskirts of Limerick, would I be right in thinking about increased frequency on the Nenagh line to Ballybrophy and increased frequency to Limerick Junction? It is not really a practical proposition to take a train from Limerick to Waterford, two of the major cities in the country with many big towns on the way. If as an interim step there were five services each way a day, would that result in getting significant numbers of people on those services which I understand are the least used services in the country?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, an increased service will result in a relative increase in patronage, absolutely.

Are there any plans for those particular lines?

Mr. Jim Meade

Not in the short term because we do not have the fleet to do that, but in the longer term, absolutely.

Would the longer term be four to five years or 45 years?

Mr. Jim Meade

It would be three to five years as we roll out the fleet. If we want to make them really viable, we would need to be heading towards a two-hourly frequency.

Mr. Meade went into considerable detail about Limerick to Galway. As I understand the menu of options is put in the passing loop at Sixmilebridge, the passing loop that is already in train at Oranmore and then in the meantime longer platforms. How long will it take for the longer platforms?

Mr. Paul Hendrick

I would say we could deliver the platforms in two to three years.

How long will the two bigger projects, the passing loops, take? Would it be five years?

Mr. Jim Meade

It may be a bit less, but it would be four to five years. Neither of those options is currently funded.

So, we have to go after funding. That is very useful. Obviously, I would like to know what the hold-up is.

Iarnród Éireann got money to clear the line between Athenry and Claremorris. That is very welcome because it preserves the right of way. I understand some work was done around Tubbercurry last year to clear the line. I presume Iarnród Éireann tries to keep parts of that line clear every year to give a strong indication that it is its line and that encroachment is not to be allowed. Am I right in thinking that all it got was a mandate to clear the line?

Mr. Jim Meade

Currently, all we have is a mandate to devegetate the line.

Now that Iarnród Éireann has devegetated the line, how big a job would it be to carry out the surveys that would be required to start designing what would be required if the funding came? In other words, how much funding would it need to do a design of what the line would cost? We have had so many estimates on this one. What we need to see is a professional design done on this line not to put it back the way it was because that was a 19th century rail line but suitable for now. I am talking about it being for freight and for passengers, lengths of platforms and passing loops to allow for increased frequency as well. What kind of money would Iarnród Éireann need to develop this plan and how long would it take to develop it? If it takes two years to develop the plan and if it got the money, then it does not need more money for another two years and it can get on with that bit of it. What kind of timeframe are we talking about?

Mr. Jim Meade

Certainly, we would get all that done within a two-year timeframe. We spoke earlier about the Navan line and it is a similar process of identifying to get to the point where we have identified all the costs because we would be reinstating similar to Foynes. We would put in four-barrier level crossings with CCTV and not manual crossings. We would put in modern signalling and modern track.

Would Iarnród Éireann reduce farmer crossings and that kind of thing?

Mr. Jim Meade

We would try to eliminate as many of them as we can. We always do. We work that through with each farmer. If we have options to put in overbridges or underpasses on any project like that, we are looking at grade separation as much as we can and then automation if we cannot do that. It would cost somewhere between €7 million and €10 million to take us over the next two years.

Allowing for procurement and all the rest of it, it would be approximately two years, would it not?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes.

This is my final question and I thank the Chair for his indulgence.

I am just watching the clock because I may have to go to vote and we will need to get somebody to chair. We will keep going for as long as we can. I also want to bring in Senator Garvey.

Were there any discussions with TII on reinstating Ballyglunin bridge?

Mr. Jim Meade

Not yet, but we have all the paperwork in place. TII signed off on that with the Department and with Galway County Council so there is no issue there. They know and they are committed to replacing that bridge whenever we need it replaced.

I absolutely welcome Mr. Meade's clear statement here today - I think he said it twice - that Collooney to Claremorris is part of Iarnród Éireann's long-term plans. The rail strategy refers to connecting Dublin Airport to rail. That is a fairly expensive project, although it would be great. If it was heavy rail, it could bring people all around the country. I am not against the metro. The metro is a different job, which is internal to Dublin. Cork would be difficult and Limerick is expensive. The cheapest by far is Knock Airport. Some 800,000 people arrive there. If 10% of them took the train, that is 80,000 people. It is only ten minutes of a commuter hop.

In other words, it takes less time to get from Knock Airport to Charlestown than it takes to get from a terminal in Dublin Airport to the red car park in Dublin Airport, by the time you have gone into Google Maps and figured out how long it takes. That is without even having to walk beyond the front door of Knock Airport because it is so small. It is a very quick airport to get out of. You would not be as far as the red car park in Dublin by the time you would be in Charlestown from Knock Airport.

There is usually a large mid-west contingent here.

The railway station is in Bellahy in reality, rather than Charlestown. It is important that we keep it. I support efforts to maintain ownership of that line. In ten or 15 years, people will say it was always a no-brainer because it connects the north west to the west coast. I would love to have a room with a free wall to plaster on it all the articles that said there was never going to be anybody on the Limerick-Galway rail line. The witnesses are telling us people are sitting on the floors of carriages and standing. We should extend it to the north. If we do so, we will get the same surprising result because people are willing to travel 5 or 10 miles to get a train to a place like Galway, in particular for patients going to cancer treatment, for example. It is a no-brainer.

The point is well made that if you build it, they will come. I live close to the Luas. When there was no Luas, people said no one would use it because no one was using it then. You put the thing in and it is like a magnet. It sucks people in and they are willing to walk because they know there is reliability. We generally hear a lot more about Shannon Airport in this committee than Knock Airport by virtue of the members we have but the idea of having a rail line that close to the airport, accessible to people using the airport, sounds like a good proposal, in my neutral place as Chair, of course. I call Senator Garvey. I have a few more points, if I get a chance between votes. Equally, if Deputies Leddin or Matthews want to come back in, they can. I thank the witnesses for their forbearance.

I am proud that Mr. Meade is a fellow Clare person.

I have noticed a lot of Clare connections today. I had a fair idea there was a Clare connection.

In Clare, we care. Cooraclare actually. I have seen a revolution in rail. I have used the train regularly for the past 15 years. It was a lonely place for the first 12 of those years. What has happened in the last three years nearly brings a tear to my eye. The changes Irish Rail has brought around are unbelievable, in no small way due to Mr. Meade having a vision and growing up in Irish Rail - I believe he was 15 when he started. Having a Minister willing to fund public transport and a man in charge of a State agency like Mr. Meade is the perfect combination for what can be done when a State agency and a Minister have the same vision. I congratulate the witnesses and the staff.

Child labour was obviously okay back then.

It is phenomenal. It used to be just a few people with a free pass and me. Irish Rail has given people confidence in trains again. Limerick Station looks amazing. It finally has decent coffee, which is a big one for me with early trains. I wish to ask a few questions. The reopening of Cratloe train station is key. I drove to Limerick the other day. I would normally get the train from Ennis. The number of cars on the road was chock-a-block. I could not believe it. I had not driven that road in a while because I always get the train. So many people still go via car to Limerick. There is something missing there. Cratloe train station would be a massive solution. I think people do not value Crusheen train station as much because I hear a lot about Cratloe. I have a guy doing research for me to prove it will be as financially viable and important to get people out of cars. We have to give people choices that suit them better than the car. We have a total car addiction. It is no wonder because we had bad public transport for so long. If we look at climate targets, of which transport has the biggest at 50%, there has never been a more important time to invest in rail. I ask Irish Rail to seriously look at Crusheen as well as Cratloe. People think it is all one-off houses and that there are not many people there. A huge number of people would go to Crusheen to get the train. I would like to hear what is happening about that and Cratloe.

On a more local level in Ennis, I would love to see a link between walking and cycling and getting the train. For instance, the bike shelter there is from the sixties. We need to invest in proper secure bike parking for people in the town or within a distance of perhaps 10 km of the town so they feel they can cycle there safely. I would love to see e-bike charging points for longer distances for someone like me - I would have to do 17 km. I might leave the bike there for three days. I would like to know I can get on my e-bike when I come back instead of bringing it to Dublin. I do not need to bring a bike to Dublin. There is DublinBikes and I have a bike there anyway.

Proper signs for information on train times are needed. The huge challenge for Irish Rail is that no matter how many trains are put on, there is a lack of confidence in public transport. It is a legacy issue. Clear information on train times is important. The people who make train signs for the underground in London are in Clare - the company is in Ennistymon. That should be looked into as well. We have to make it as easy as possible for people to access information.

I raised the issue that if you do not have the parking app, which a lot of older people do not, they are afraid they cannot leave the car there. They do not realise they can go into the station and pay for parking with cash or their card on the machine where you buy train tickets. If there are no signs in the car park to let people know that, they will not do it. People ring me saying they could leave the car there, but they do not know how to use the app so they could not get the train. It is a question of a few signs.

Personally, later trains are needed. The last train from Dublin to Ennis is at 6 p.m. There are later trains to Limerick at around 9 p.m. but there is no train from Limerick to Ennis. That is a missing piece. One onto Galway would be amazing. Trains are very popular now with students and we need more carriages. I will speak about that in a minute. There is one at 6.50 a.m. to Galway and another one at 1.30 p.m. but due to housing reasons and because trains are so cheap thanks to the half-price ticket, students want to get the train to college like never before. They are parking their cars. They have saved up their money since their confirmation to buy a car and now they realise it is mad. Cars cost a ridiculous amount to run so they get the train and give up on the car. We need more trains. Particularly for students with the current train times especially - one at 6.50 a.m. and not another one until 1.30 p.m. does not make for happy commuters.

I feel Irish Rail was left out of Connecting Ireland. I know local authorities in many places talked to Bus Éireann and other bus companies but they did not talk to Irish Rail. It was not in the room. As a result, there are still 16 times a day when the bus and train miss each other by a short five minutes. A train comes in at 7.30 p.m. and at exactly 7.30 p.m. the last bus to west Clare leaves the station. It is a killer. People have to drive their kids up from Kilkee because the bus leaves at the same time. There is a missing piece. It is not necessarily the fault of Irish Rail. Irish Rail was left out of the room when we were looking at Connecting Ireland, from talking to the people who made submissions. Unfortunately, Irish Rail will have to drive it with Bus Éireann and Local Link - we now have that amazing infrastructure that goes where no bus has ever gone before. I would love to see the NTA bring Bus Éireann, Irish Rail and Local Link into a room and ask them to shift the timetables so there really is a Connecting Ireland.

Is there any timeline for the 140 new carriages? As was said, people are sitting on the floors which means Irish Rail is a victim of its own success. I will take the heat on that from people who give out about not having a seat. It is because we have done so well on public transport and trains in particular that we do not have enough seats because of the demand. When will we see the roll-out of increased capacity in trains?

Mr. Jim Meade

We have reasonably good news on carriages and trains - they are two different things. Over the next number of weeks, we will get final certification from the CRR to start putting all 41 new carriages into the fleet. That will make existing trains longer for more capacity and people will not have to sit on the floor. Some of the Senator's colleagues who spoke earlier were from the Galway-Sligo-Westport area, where we are quite busy on the inter-city routes. That fleet will start rolling out over the next number of weeks and months. All 41 will go in to add capacity. We will accept the first of our new battery electric trains in June and July. There is quite an onerous testing and commissioning programme by our regulator so they will not go into revenue-earning service until the end of quarter 1 or early quarter 2 of 2025 probably. For subsequent trains, we have done what we call a "head of series" so we can roll out more of that type of train. Through the latter half of 2025 and through 2026, we will add the first order of trains, 19 new trains, and the second order, a further 18 battery electric trains.

Those trains will allow us to cascade existing trains out of the greater Dublin area into the regions and routes, significantly adding to capacity.

The timetable issue was flagged with me before by the Senator in a one-to-one session. I flagged it with Bus Éireann afterwards. We are starting to examine it to determine how we can make things work. Local Link, which we had not spoken about before, could be added to the debate to determine whether there is anything we can do in that regard. We will certainly take it back to the NTA.

On car parking and later trains for Ennis, we have got funding to examine capacity on the Ennis-Limerick line. It links to the Shannon link, which the Senator has mentioned. On whether we should put a station at Cratloe, the process on capacity on the Ennis line is now under way, so we will be asking whether we should put a passing loop at Sixmilebridge and looking at what else we should do. We need to extend some platforms to put longer trains on the route. We are full all the time on the route. That is all happening.

While this does not really deal with the issue the Senator has raised, we have provided earlier and later trains to Cork and Limerick, so students can now get to Cork earlier and people can get out of Dublin earlier. Someone can now leave Dublin and be in Shannon for a meeting at 9 a.m., which was not the case before. That is starting to come good.

On the information aspect, Daktronics does a lot of work for us. It is under new ownership now. We are rolling the initiative out across the system. Therefore, what you see in Limerick station will eventually be in all the smaller stations. We are building a new facility here in Dublin, the national train control centre, which members will have seen coming in on the train. It will be able to send information to all the signs when the project comes to finality.

I also asked about Crusheen.

Mr. Jim Meade

I mentioned Cratloe. Crusheen, as I mentioned earlier, is not currently in the plan. It was examined in 2007–08. We have designed what it could be but it is not currently funded through the Department.

I thank Senator Garvey. I may not get back in at the rate we are going because of voting, so I want to make again the point I made at the start by naming the councillors from right across the country who have raised issues. I am going to raise them with the witnesses so they can come back to me on them on an individual basis. I include an issue on which it would be great if Mr. Kenny answered in a second. Even councillors from Donegal contacted me, namely councillors Patrick McGowan and Michael Cholm Mac Giolla Easbuig. They do not have any train services but would like them. I have also been contacted by the following councillors: from Mayo, Mark Duffy and Brendan Mulroy; from Leitrim, Felim Gurn; from Louth, John Sheridan and Sean Kelly; from Meath, Sean Drew, Stephen McKee, Paul McCabe and Aisling Dempsey; from Westmeath, Frankie Keena; from Longford, Uruemu Adejinmi; from Fingal County Council, Howard Mahony and Adrian Henchy; from Dublin City Council; Christy Burke and Mannix Flynn; from South Dublin County Council, Mick Duff; from Kildare, Seamie Moore; from Galway, indicating how popular Galway is, John Connolly, Joe Sheridan, Shelly Herterich Quinn, Martina Kinnane, Dr. Evelyn Francis Parsons and Donagh Killilea; from Clare, Rita McInerney and Tony O'Brien; from Tipperary, Ryan O'Meara and Siobhán Ambrose; from Kerry John O'Donoghue, Michael Cahill and Jackie Healy-Rae; from Waterford, Joe Conway; from Wexford, Michael Whelan; and from Wicklow, Gerry Walsh and Pat Fitzgerald. Therefore, there is an enormous amount of interest in Iarnród Éireann's services. By and large, the issues are not complaints as such but queries about when services, including earlier, later and more frequent ones, will be provided. Occasionally, they are about stairs, a bridge or a lift that is not working. I say this as much to bring it to the witnesses' attention as anything else. However, there is a genuine appetite and the vast bulk of the correspondence is positive.

Deputy Leddin mentioned the strategic profile. Many probably think rail services in Ireland are run only by Irish Rail, that it can do what it likes and that it keeps all the money and makes profit, but this is not the case. Irish Rail is now the operator. Everything it does is now controlled by the rail safety people, on one side, but also by the NTA through the fare box and the provision of the operational budget and by the Department of Transport through the capital programme. Sometimes people think Irish Rail did not do this or that but in many cases it was not that Irish Rail did not want to; it is just that it has not yet the ability. If it had its own budget, it would probably open a rail link to the airport in the morning. It would probably be one of the most profitable lines if it were put in. It is all about the Government. It is important for people to get a handle on it. A point well made by Deputy Leddin was that Irish Rail is not totally the master of its own destiny. It has to keep providing the service, looking for money and making a case for why it needs more money for its day-to-day activity, whether this entails security on trains or an extra service in the morning. It is about making a case regarding demand for services. A long time ago, people said the western rail corridor would never work, but when the service was provided, it worked all of a sudden. In my area, people could have said there was no point in reopening the old Harcourt Street line, as it was – a heavy rail line. The minute it was opened, it was incredibly popular, although I will not say it was full on the first day. People who never thought of using these kinds of services were using them and would not go back to any other mode of transport. It is very much a positive news story.

I suggest that the committee bring the witnesses back again quite soon because there is clearly an appetite for all they are doing. I do not wish to distract from what Irish Rail does but it is important that the public realise all that is happening. The public make demands of us and we in turn make demands of Irish Rail, which can then go to the NTA and the Government to ask for more funding for capital projects and day-to-day business. I thank all the witnesses for everything they have done.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the Chair. We certainly see ourselves as a public service provider. We provide the ability for this country to move. That is a direct contributor to the economy and its growth.

As it happens, several members of this committee, including me, were in Brussels and we got the train to the airport. Someone asked whether we should get a taxi and I said we should not because it would be slower. Even though the train happened to be delayed on the day, we were still at the airport much more quickly than we would have ever got there by taxi, particularly where there are large volumes of people.

I know it is a case of "If you build it, they will come"; however, a map of where passengers are currently concentrated would be useful. Obviously, it is on the DART, along the eastern seaboard, where the frequency and population are highest. I would be interested in seeing where Irish Rail's current revenue base is. I do not know how much variable pricing there is and how much opportunity there is to have it. With airlines, flying is more expensive at certain times and cheaper at others to incentivise people. Maybe the delegates do not have the information but I would be interested in knowing the age profile of customers. Historically, there were many passengers with free travel. Now there are many students and commuters, with different profiles at different times of the day. I seek this information to understand what we can do to lobby our parties, the Government and indeed the Opposition, with a view to lobbying the Government, on what else we can do. With a population that has increased by 50% or thereabouts in the past 25 years, you cannot allow everyone to be a single-occupancy car, yet sometimes the mindset is based on this. The closing of the Harcourt Street line and others all over the country is in my parents' recollection. The year 1959 was significant in this regard. I believe this was before all the committee members were born, but not necessarily before many in the country were born. We have a total modal and mental shift. This is all very positive but I would welcome the re-engagement of Irish Rail soon. It is not that the delegates have not been excellent today but that there is a considerable appetite for more discussion. There is much more information we would like to get from them, including for all of us to sell how good the service is. Deputies Crowe and Leddin, and I am sure other members, are good advertisements for getting the train to Dublin. Thirty years ago, probably very few members did so. I thank the witnesses.

I thank the Chair for the opportunity because I am not an ordinary member of this committee. I have been very strict with myself in that I have restricted myself to only eight issues.

Mr. Kenny might contribute on the Waterford rail line. The answer might be of benefit to Deputy Ó Cathasaigh before he contributes – I do not know.

Mr. Barry Kenny

It was about a specific train. Carriage 22135 collided with an obstruction on the line, rupturing the tank. This involves a longer job than normal but there is actually a second accessible toilet for people with disabilities on the train.

Maybe a sign could be put up stating one is not operational that there is another down the carriage. The Mayor of Waterford made a comment on the service. We have got it cleared up. I thank Mr. Kenny for that.

It was not on my list. It is one of the items that did not make it. I will start with the North Quays. We have the integrated transport hub, which is due to move from the current location at Plunkett Station to a location further up the quay. It will be the linchpin of the development and where the new sustainable transport bridge crossing the River Suir will land. I have been talking to the contractors and the council. They believe everything is moving as anticipated according to their timeline. I want an indication from Irish Rail as to when it believes we will see trains going in and out of the new integrated transport hub.

The second issue is that of the Barrow Bridge, which I believe was mentioned earlier at this meeting.

There was a bridge strike there maybe two years ago. How is the insurance claim progressing and are we advancing with repairs in the interim?

The third issue depends on the Barrow Bridge, namely, the Rosslare-Waterford line. It is quite some time since a passenger service ran on that line. The rail strategy moots reopening that line. Will Mr. Meade tell me where we are in terms of planning for the reopening of the Rosslare line? In a related issue, does Irish Rail envisage the Killinick loop as being a future connection? It would not only make a connection between Rosslare and Waterford, it would connect to the Dublin line that travels through Gorey, Enniscorthy and Wexford. Can we loop it across on to the south Wexford line? It would be a great transport connection, particularly in light of what is now South East Technological University, SETU, to link up its campuses.

I am sure the Deputy beside me has an interest in the Waterford-Limerick line as much as I do and I want to ask about line speed in particular along that line. What investments do we need to make? While I know we need to upgrade signalling and to look at level crossings, what level of investment is needed to get to a good quality line speed along that route? Do we have a good plan in place to try to get there? I also wish to raise increased services on that route. At present, there are only two services in each direction each day on that line and nothing at all on a Sunday. Better services to get people into Waterford or into Limerick at a reasonable time would see a huge jump in the patronage on that line.

As for the Waterford-Dublin line, I want to raise capacity issues. It has been said to me that every platform along that line can accommodate eight carriages apart from Kilkenny, which can only accommodate six carriages. Is that true and are there plans to expand that capacity in Kilkenny for when we get that cascade of carriages? I travel on that line frequently and there is a need for more capacity, particularly from Dublin to Kilkenny, where a lot of people seem to get off.

Finally the last train to Waterford out of Heuston Station leaves at 6.35 p.m., which is very early for people. As the last train to Carlow leaves at 8.30 p.m., is there any chance of getting the Carlow train to head a little bit further down the road in order to get a later service to Waterford? It would be of huge benefit to people who work in Dublin for a number of days of the week.

Mr. Jim Meade

I will start with the Waterford North Quays project. I am happy to say the Waterford North Quays project is going very well. We are led by Waterford City and County Council and we are supporting that, as opposed to leading it. We are pretty much still on target for quarter 2 of 2026 to do the transfer. The contractor is doing very well, there are no issues with the contractor. It is the new BAM in there and it is really getting stuck into delivering well and on time. From our perspective, the project is going well and is on time for quarter 2 of 2026 with no issues of significance. There will always be little bits and pieces in any project but there is nothing of any significance.

On the Barrow Bridge, we did discuss it here earlier but I am happy to say we outlined a whole series of works some time back that demonstrates what we need to do. It included the consultants and needing to do topographic and barometric surveys, the ground investigations, etc. We are broadly online with that plan. We have been working through it and it is substantially complete. We have some residual GI surveys to do but nothing major in the scheme of things. We identified both ships that were involved in the two strikes. We were able to get in contact with the insurance companies and there is no argument about liability as we have CCTV and it is clear. Both insurers are now just waiting for us to come back to say that is the cost for their level of damage. There may be a debate between the two of them regarding who did what damage but it will not be with us. At the end of the day, that is for them to sort out at the marine level. We are currently building up the plan of what we will need to do to repair it. We intend to do a bit more, as we have advised before, because we also want to automate it in the process and bring it back to our national train control centre, rather than having people up on top with it. That plan is still on target.

The line itself or the south Wexford line as we would refer to it - the line from there to Waterford - is in reasonable nick. It is identified in the all-island strategic rail review as a line to be brought back into service because there are options there for it. It is not in any funding stream at the moment and there is no direct plan to reopen the line. There is a desire there, however, as part of the all-island strategic rail review, to reopen it. Once the review is published, which should happen in the next couple of months, that prospect of a loop at Killinick, which can and will work, will be built into that design process when we get to that stage of the project.

The Deputy then mentioned the other side, that is, from Waterford going towards Limerick Junction. To enhance that, we need to move towards a two-hourly service. If you have a two-hourly service all day, that is when you grow patronage and when you get use from the service. We will not be able to do that until we have the extra fleet to deploy on that route. That will be a domino effect. We are putting in the 41 ICR carriages, as I mentioned earlier to Senator Garvey, but the real step-change will start to come as we roll out the 185 new carriages we currently have on order. They are coming in five-car sets or 37 new train sets. They will go in to the greater Dublin area because they are battery electric but they will cascade other fleet and train sets that we can then start to deploy on our intercity routes to move to hourly services. We want to go hourly to Waterford, Galway and Sligo and to go two-hourly to Westport. We want to increase the frequency on the main routes and on regional routes. It will give us capacity to do that as well. It will be late 2026 or 2027 before we get to the point where we have the fleet to cascade down on to that.

The Deputy's information on Kilkenny is correct and there is a limit of six cars. It is not just the platform as we also are up against the actual signal to start the train there. As the Deputy is aware, we have a loop in Kilkenny, so they are all interconnected. It is not simply as easy as adding capacity to that train. We sometimes run specials out of Waterford for major events or whatever - people down there might get into an all-Ireland the odd time. We know we cannot let them into Kilkenny if it is an all-Ireland, so when we do that, we come straight past Kilkenny. We have that flexibility.

Witnesses should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Mr. Meade should stop goading our visiting non-member.

Mr. Jim Meade

The issue for us is to add more capacity, with a higher frequency service initially. We will be looking at what we can do with Kilkenny station but it is actually quite tricky to lengthen the platform much beyond what it is.

What of the later trains?

Mr. Jim Meade

On late trains, albeit not on the Waterford route, we have made some changes where we could sweat the assets more in the latest timetable change, such as earlier Cork ones or later on some routes.

Irish Rail has a three-carriage set that sits in Waterford once the last Limerick train comes in. Could Irish Rail not run it up to Carlow and run it back down again for me?

Mr. Jim Meade

I am aware of that one, we could. We are in the process of training a couple of drivers, we just need more flexibility to do it. That is a point the Deputy raised with us before. We are working towards creating the capacity, not within the fleet, but within the staff to do it.

Very good. I thank Mr. Meade.

Nobody here is going to die of shock when I ask about the Enterprise and when it will become an hourly service between Dublin and Belfast. There have been various timelines but while people have said this possibly could happen in 2024, there is also talk of the replacement of the entire stock. I also wonder about the changing of ticketing infrastructure. We spoke previously of the difficulty regarding people's changed routines post Covid. They might now be travelling only two or three days but want to be able to get the benefit of a Taxsaver ticket or whatever. There was always a specific issue that those who were working for two or three days might not be facilitated and it was a problem with the ticketing infrastructure.

While this is still going through a process that has been elongated by the absence of an Executive in the North, I refer to the all-island rail review and Irish Rail's interaction with it. I suppose it is a case of sooner, better and quicker in relation to all that.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank the Deputy. There is good news on the hourly service. As the Deputy will know, a couple of things are happening in conjunction. The old Great Victoria Street Station is being completely redeveloped in Belfast. A big parcel of work will be done in early summer. Our colleagues in Translink intend to shut down the station for approximately five or six weeks in July and early August to make the transfer to Grand Central Station. That is the timeframe they are looking at. We are working towards putting an hourly service back in place when they reopen it; it will be part of the reopening process. That will require both Translink and Irish Rail to dedicate an extra train, if not two trains, to that service. That is also linked to our 41 ICRs. We are working at this in the background but the intention is to move to an hourly service after that. It is more of an issue for Translink than it is for Irish Rail because we have a plan in place. Translink needs to create some capacity up there. That would enable an hourly service with a mixture of train sets. We are talking to-----

When will that be?

Mr. Jim Meade

That will be at the end of this year.

At the end of the year. There is no specific date yet. I think what-----

Mr. Jim Meade

Apologies, it will be in September.

In September, okay.

Mr. Jim Meade

It will be in September of this year. Irish Rail has just submitted the business case to the Department of Transport and to the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland to replace the fleet. That is a project we have running. We are looking for funding from the special EU programmes body, SEUPB. That business case has gone in. SEUPB will give us some funding and the two Departments will have to make up the rest. That is for an entirely new fleet, one fleet being eight trains, in order that the whole service will be uniform. We hope to go to tender this summer, depending on getting the various approvals from the Departments. If those two steps happen, we will go to contract towards the end of 2025 with a completely new fleet in service for 2029. That is an important date for us because the SEUPB funding runs out then so it must get it done by then.

That is complete replacement by 2029.

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes.

Will this happen stage by stage?

Mr. Jim Meade

It will, yes. It will happen stage by stage but over a relatively short period, probably about a year or less as the trains come into service. As we will be running a mix of trains until then, including our existing Enterprise sets, some of our ICR sets, and some of Translink's CAF sets,there will not be one standard of service. Our ICRs and the Enterprise are very close in standard but the CAFs are more of a commuter train. While it is something we are looking at, the new trains will be next-generation, beyond what is on the Enterprise or the Cork service at present.

Will this resolve some of the mechanical issues and so on that have happened?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, absolutely. The fleet ultimately will be electrical. It will come with some sort of mechanical propulsion in the short term but in the long-term it will have the capacity to go 25 kV AC. That is what we are working towards, namely, a fully electrified hourly service with a reduced journey time. It will take all these factors into being.

On the ticketing side, there are two different ticketing systems and I happen to know that Translink has just started to look at its ticketing system to see if it can bring it more in line with Irish Rail's ticketing system. Currently, it works but it must be manually worked at several levels across the business. The all-island review, which we mentioned earlier and which was published for public consultation last September, came back with quite positive commentary. Even those comments that appeared negative were actually comments looking for more services. They were not against the proposals; they were simply saying that we might not have considered this or that. All the feedback went to the Department for Transport and it is working through that at the moment. It hopes to publish in the near future. It has not set an exact timeline but publication by the Department of the all-island review should be reasonably imminent. This will identify all the key projects to be done over the next 20 to 25 years. From an Irish Rail perspective, we will identify the short-term wins and go through a process of identifying short, medium and long-term projects. Short-term projects are projects over the next five years. Some of these short-term wins are programmes Irish Rail already has in play. Others are programmes we have put forward that are not yet funded but once the strategic review supports them, it will then make sense to advance them.

On the ticketing scenario, is it still an issue?

Mr. Jim Meade

There are two different technologies involved at present. Translink has its ticketing system in the North and Irish Rail has its own. For booking tickets, there are a couple of clashes in the system. We make it work behind the scenes but a customer from the North cannot book a ticket or reserve everything like one can from the South.

In the South, there was an issue in certain places across the infrastructure. There was not necessarily the correct ticketing system to record days and so on.

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes.

I imagine the ticketing infrastructure across Iarnród Éireann has been upgraded to a degree at this stage. Is it?

Mr. Jim Meade

Yes, it is. There are a couple of things in that regard. There is the next generation ticketing that the NTA is looking at and which will allow all modes of transport to use the same ticketing. Ultimately, you will just tap or scan your phone. That ultimately is where we are trying to get to. Our ticketing system is working but it does not interact with Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann. However, the Leap card currently interacts in certain areas. People in the commuter belt who are coming into Dublin from Sallins or Naas, for example, can tag on at Sallins or Naas and then go onto a bus or Luas with the same Leap card. That is working but it is not countrywide. The NTA has extended this facility to the greater Cork area recently; there is now a Leap card system in Cork. However, you cannot tag on at Heuston Station and go to Thurles.

Okay. I thank the witnesses.

Mr. Jim Meade

I thank Deputy Ó Murchú.

I thank Deputy Ó Murchú.

Does Deputy Matthews have any further questions?

Okay.

I call on Deputy Leddin, briefly.

I thank an Leas-Chathaoirleach for allowing me to ask further questions. I spent most of my previous contribution talking about projects in County Clare. I can be very parochial. This time I am going to talk about projects in County Limerick, namely, the exciting Limerick to Foynes railway line, which ostensibly is for freight but obviously-----

I have just been called to a vote. I may ask Deputy Matthews to finish off the committee meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed. The Deputy should keep going.

The Limerick to Foynes railway line is such an exciting project and, as I said, is ostensibly for freight but in upgrading the line, it is going to produce opportunities for passenger services in the future. I know that Irish Rail would be ambitious in that regard. It is up to us as politicians to persuade our colleagues and the various State agencies involved in that decision-making.

We are very proud in Limerick to be hosting the Ryder Cup in 2027. This is such a fantastic opportunity to develop passenger services because more than 100,000 people are going to be coming in and out of Adare every day. The best way to get them in and out of Adare is by rail and I know Mr. Meade would be supportive of that ambition. I certainly wish to see that happen and it would be remiss if heaven and earth is not moved to make that happen in time for the event. There should be passenger services to Raheen, Patrickswell, Adare, Askeaton and Foynes built on top of this freight project in the years ahead.

At Dooradoyle and Raheen, people are broadly positive about the project. There are concerns about construction works, noise mitigation, drainage issues and so on. I ask Mr. Meade that his team liaise closely with those people and residents on the ground there and-----

I am going to interrupt Deputy Leddin briefly. I would like to leave and I ask Deputy Matthews to come in.

I thank Mr. Meade, Mr. Kenny and Mr. Hendrick for their full three-hour engagement with the committee. They can see the appetite is here from both committee members and non-committee members. who are all interested in all of what Irish Rail is doing, as are public representatives from all over the country and the public. I thank the witnesses and the committee looks forward to using their services more frequently into the future.

Deputy Steven Matthews took the Chair.

We will go for another three hours in the absence of an Leas-Chathaoirleach.

We have a Green Party chairman now. Order the pizzas.

I think the room might be needed by somebody else very shortly.

I will be brief. It is about this project, which is really very positive. There is huge potential long into the future with it. I just want to raise the concern that residents in Raheen have raised with me, and I think it needs special attention. There is a huge possibility for Dooradoyle and Raheen to have a train station there. We have 7,000 people working in the industrial estate. They are coming from the hinterland and from Nenagh. They are coming from west Limerick, mid-Clare and north Clare. These places are all within reach of the national rail network and it makes sense to build a train station very near to Raheen Business Park. We should be talking about that and we should be ambitious about that. It can happen and I would expect that Irish Rail would agree with me in that regard.

With respect to the development of train stations along that line, we need to be looking at the city and county development plan for Limerick. This is for political colleagues across Limerick city and county. That development plan does not speak to our rail ambition at the moment. It needs to be aligned. We need to be looking at sites near the nodes along that railway line to see how we can develop them for housing, industry and so on. We need to look at what other infrastructure is needed, such as water services infrastructure, water treatment infrastructure and power infrastructure. All of these things are critically important, and it is crucial that our local authority in Limerick grasps the opportunity that this rail infrastructure presents for our city and county. I know Irish Rail will be very ambitious with respect to the vision that we have. I want to offer Mr. Meade the opportunity to respond with his own thoughts on that project, and he might give us an update on progress to date.

Mr. Jim Meade

The Deputy mentioned the Foynes line. It is progressing very well. We intend to have all of the track laid in by the end of this year. As late as yesterday afternoon, I met with the main contractor there, Sisk, to discuss that very point. I have been assured that the track work will be all laid in by the end of the year. We are getting great support from the Department of Transport on this, in fairness. We have basically got the green light to finish out and do the signalling and the level crossing, so we are on track to have that finalised by very late 2025 or quarter 1 of 2026.

It is a freight line that is going in, and we are currently only considering it for freight. We are looking to move freight trains on it. That said, a train line is a train line, so once we have it, it would mean we could do something about passengers or putting in stations.

The Deputy mentioned the Ryder Cup, and there is a focus on the Ryder Cup and obviously the road extension to deal with that. TII approached us to assist them with that project because we have the expertise in Mr. Hendrick's team and his colleague, the director of infrastructure's team as well. We are going to do the three main bridges on that route for TII because we can do it faster and better than TII can at the moment. Did I say better? It is to help TII to help us all in delivering that project on time. It is a critical project for Limerick, and it will be a big showcase for Ireland Inc. That is all very much in train. We can, at the time, build temporary platforms. Once the line is there, we can operate passenger trains, even in a temporary case for the Ryder Cup.

I would agree that the line offers the potential. It is part of the LSMATS strategy, from a transport perspective, of putting in passenger services on that line, be it at Patrickswell, Adare, Raheen, Dooradoyle, the hospital or Castlemungret, which is a big residential area. All of that possibility is there, and we would say that we should absolutely do it. At Raheen, it would be at the back of Regeneron and beside where Eli Lilly is about to build. Regeneron is about 4,000-strong at the moment, and Eli Lilly would be as big, so we would have big communities of people moving in and out of there for work. It certainly is an opportunity if we want to do something significant around Limerick as part of the LSMATS plan to grow the rail infrastructure. We can certainly do it, and we are happy to work with the chief executive of the local authority there, Dr. Pat Daly, to look at the city and county development plan to see how we can assist with anything on it.

I want to thank Mr. Meade, Mr. Kenny and Mr. Hendrick for their participation today and for answering all of those questions. They can see the level of interest and support there is among Oireachtas Members. I thank them for their contributions today, and I ask them to pass our thanks and acknowledgment to the staff throughout the network as well for the work they do.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.35 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Tuesday, 30 January 2024.
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