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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Jul 1926

Vol. 7 No. 14

RULES OF COURT.

CATHAOIRLEACH

Before passing to the other business, I wish to refer to the question of the Rules of Court. The House may recollect that yesterday there was considerable opposition, in view of the suggestion of the Minister for Justice that these rules should be taken into consideration and disposed of to-morrow. I have had correspondence with the Minister, and he quite recognises that it would not be reasonable to persist in that request to the Seanad, but, at the same time, I am sure that the House will be anxious, so far as we can, to consult his personal convenience in the matter. He is a very hard worked Minister and I am sure he deserves a holiday, probably more so than most of us. He proposes to leave for the country shortly but has to be back in the Dáil on the 20th instant. He suggests that we should meet on Thursday 22nd instant for the purpose of considering these rules. If the House agrees to that, I suggest that it ought to-day or to-morrow refer these rules to a small Select Committee and that that Committee be asked to meet next week, so that their report on the rules could be circulated not later than Monday, 19th instant. That would give members an additional interval of three days, after receiving the report of the Committee, to consider these rules. They will not, of course, be bound by the Committee's report but it will be of assistance to them when they come to consider the rules. If the House agrees with that suggestion it will be necessary for someone to propose the formation of the Committee, and, if that is approved, I think it should be left to the Selection Committee to nominate the members on that Committee. If the House approves, I will ask that that be done to-day or to-morrow.

I would suggest, if I may do so, that the Selection Committee in making their selection should have two matters in view. They should, first, if possible, have the business element of the community represented on the Committee and, secondly, as far as possible, select members who are living in the vicinity of Dublin, as that will dispense with the necessity of bringing Senators from distant parts of the country. This Committee would have to meet two or three times at least to consider their report. Might I also suggest to the Committee, that in considering the report they would pay special regard to the suggested schedules of fees and costs in the Circuit Courts and District Courts. Speaking for myself, in the brief interval I have had at my disposal to go into the matter, it seems to me that they are rather on the excessive side. I understand that the view taken by the Minister on that does not differ from mine, and I have been told that already he had a conference with the Committee that drafted the District Court Rules, with the result that they have agreed to substantial modifications in the fees and expenses. I think it is well worth the while of every Senator, particularly those interested in commercial matters, to study these rules and schedules for themselves, so that they will be able to form an independent judgment on them. I would suggest that in the interval between now and the 22nd inst., it will afford them useful and healthy occupation.

The resolution I suggest that might be passed is that the Rules of Court for the Supreme Court, the High Court, the Circuit Court, and the District Court be referred to a special Committee for consideration and report, such report to be presented to the Seanad and circulated to Senators not later than Monday, July 19th, and that a meeting of the Seanad be convened for Thursday, 22nd July, for consideration of the report and for approval or otherwise of the rules.

I beg to move the adoption of that resolution.

I second.

Motion agreed to.

I should like to have your view, sir, as to what the procedure in regard to the discussion of the rules is to be. Is this House to have any regard to what may be previously done in the other House, or will the procedure be merely to make recommendations which the Minister will take into consideration, or merely to suggest a form of words?

CATHAOIRLEACH

No, the procedure is much more drastic because this House has an absolute right to veto any one of these rules.

Can it amend them?

CATHAOIRLEACH

It can certainly veto them and suggest substitutes. I do not think the House can pass substituted rules, as they would have to go back to the Rule-making Committee. The House will have power to veto any rule to which it objects. It then disappears, and a fresh rule would have to come up. I did not anticipate this question arising, but I will look into it. My recollection is that there is a section in the Act which says that these rules are only to come into operation after they are approved by both Houses. That certainly includes the power and right in either House to dissent from one or more of these rules. Neither House is bound by the action of the other. Any rule that is rejected in either House disappears, subject, I assume, to the power of the Rules Committee to submit a new rule which would have to come up again for approval in each House. Do not take that opinion as a definite one, but I will look into it before to-morrow, and if there is any reason for changing that view I shall explain the position to the House.

It is obvious the Rule-making Committee should know the objections that the House makes. I think we would have to communicate to the Committee the objection of the House.

CATHAOIRLEACH

I do not think we can pass rules subject to the Rule-making Committee which did not meet with their approval. I think any rule we want altered we will have to reject. I will look into the matter and make a definite statement to-morrow. I will ask the Selection Committee to meet to-day or to-morrow and select a committee.

I appreciate very much the action of the Seanad in fixing a date for the consideration of the rules which, as it happens, is a particularly suitable one for me. The rules will be formally made quite soon now. I simply mention, as a word of warning to the Committee, that they need not take over-seviously the schedules of costs that appear attached to the draft District Court Rules, because very substantial alterations have been effected in them. The rules of the Circuit Courts, of the Supreme Court, and the High Court are likely to be formally made pretty much as they are in the draft.

CATHAOIRLEACH

That raises a little difficulty. Will the Circuit and District Court Rules be ready for consideration by the Committee on Monday?

They will be ready by Monday. The made rules will be in print by then.

CATHAOIRLEACH

That is only giving them a week to consider them. They are very substantial and very lengthy. Well, then, it is understood that this Committee will be in possession of the final and revised draft of these rules on Monday next, so that would enable the Committee, if they wish—and they will probably be wise if they do—to meet not later than Tuesday. I think they will require to meet two or three times.

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