There are certain provisions of this Order to which I object. They put taxation on certain areas of County Cork which hitherto had not been charged with the expenses of the Cork Intercepting Hospital. It appears from the Bill that the necessity for this Order arose from the fact that the town of Passage West became an urban district recently, and it was necessary to apportion the charge for the maintenance and up-keep of the hospital at the Port of Cork between that town and the adjoining rural areas. If the apportionment had been made between the town of Passage West and the remaining portion of the rural districts, I would not have anything to say to the matter, but in making the Order the Minister has extended the area of charge to include the whole of the County of Cork. He has included districts that are nearly one hundred miles away from the port of Cork. He has included districts that have ports of their own which would be required to provide for any sea-borne cases of disease that might come into their ports. I have been asked by the Committee of the Board of Health for the western portion of Cork to oppose this provision in the Bill, and I suggest to the Minister that he should make an alteration, whereby the charge will be confined to the existing area and not be placed on ratepayers who were hitherto not liable for the upkeep of this hospital.
PRIVATE BUSINESS. - LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL—SECOND STAGE.
CATHAOIRLEACH
You are not objecting to the principle of the Bill?
Only in this matter.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Would not that be a matter for Committee? There is nothing to prevent you introducing an amendment on the Committee Stage.
Do I understand that it would be possible for me to have the Minister's Order amended? There are only two or three sections in the Bill. If you, sir, say that it would be possible for me to amend the Order limiting the areas of charge to the existing areas it would of course come on on that stage.
CATHAOIRLEACH
We will hear what the Minister has to say.
I feel that when Senator Linehan hears what I have to say he will perhaps realise that we have proceeded in the only way possible in this matter. The Cork Port Sanitary Authority is involved including the county borough, the old rural districts of Cork, Middleton, Kinsale and the urban district of Cobh. In 1921 the town of Passage West became an urban district. Since the passing of the Local Government Act the rural districts of Cork, Middleton and Kinsale have been done away with and the sanitary authority for the whole county of Cork is now the Board of Health. So that we had to transfer to the new sanitary authority the responsibility both administrative and financial, that rested on their predecessors, that is on the three rural districts. A very small amount of money is involved in this matter. The expenditure for the year ending March, 1926, was £705 0s. 0d. of which £425 0s. 0d. was borne by Cork city; between Cork, Middleton and Kinsale rural district councils, £211 0s. 0d.; and Cobh urban district £70 0s. 0d. The ratio in which the charge was distributed was 60 per cent. to Cork Borough; 30 per cent. to the rural districts, and 10 per cent. to Cobh. Passage which has become an urban district was not one of the rural districts and it could be argued that possibly it should bear five per cent. of the cost. But considering the circumstances there and the comparison between Passage and Cork port it was decided that five per cent. of the charge would be entirely too great for Passage. What is proposed now is that instead of Cork Borough bearing 60 per cent. it is to bear 62½ per cent., approximately £450 0s. 0d.; instead of the three rural districts combined bearing 30 per cent., the county as a whole now bears 25 per cent., approximately £190 0s. 0d.; Cobh bears ten per cent., approximately £70 0s. 0d.; Passage West 2½ per cent., amounting to £17 0s. 0d. The Cork County Board of Health must have representation on the Port Sanitary Authority and as a matter of fact has five members as against twelve for Cork County Borough; Cobh urban district two and Passage one.
As far as administrative responsibility is concerned the County Cork Board of Health cannot escape it, and as far as financial responsibility is concerned it is a question of £190 0s. 0d. spread over the whole county. I think Senator Linehan's argument is that the previous charge should be kept over the old area as a separate charge. In the first place the amounts are very small and, speaking from my knowledge of Local Government matters, I am personally very anxious to get away from small areas of charge for matters that really affect health and are of any public concern. We find very great difficulty dealing with water and sewerage supplies with small areas of charge and I feel that we must very quickly get to the position in which the county at large must be the area of charge for these matters. As I say £190 0s. 0d. is spread over the area of the Cork County Board of Health which must bear the responsibility which was formerly that of the rural districts. I think the matter is a very small one and that what is suggested might keep us more and more to these small areas of charge and hold up very important public policy.
I would appeal to the Senator to consider that there is very little involved, and I do not see on what other lines we could proceed without working on a very bad principle.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I am not quite sure myself about this, and perhaps the Minister will inform me. Is it left to the House to accept it or reject the Bill, or is there power to amend it in Committee?
I cannot speak with absolute confidence in the matter, but I suggest that the Bill must be defeated before the Minister could change his Order.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I think so. I think we must either accept it as it is or reject it, so that the Senator is quite in order in raising his objection now if he he is going to oppose the Second Reading.
I agree with the Minister that the amount of money involved at present is not large. It is only a trifle, but that may be because very few seaborne cases of serious disease have come into Cork within the period for which the Minister gave figures. It is quite possible, however, in case of an outbreak of smallpox, plague, or some other disease, that the cost might be very high. It is the principle contained in this Bill that I object to, putting taxation on people who hitherto were not liable for it, and doing so without the consent of those people. If this Order had been submitted to the representatives of the ratepayers in these districts, and if they accepted the liability, I would have nothing to say to the matter.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Have you any cases in which areas proposed to be taxed asked that they should be taxed?
Persons who are already liable to a tax do not object so much as those on whom a new tax is put. This is the time to object, and I hope that the Seanad will agree that this proposal is an injustice, even though the amount involved is small. I ask the Seanad to reject the principle put forward in the Bill—placing taxation on persons who have not hitherto been liable for it.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I think that would be a very strong order.
How did they escape?