Private Business. - National Health Insurance Bill, 1933—Committee Stage.
Sections 1 to 21 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 22.
(1) Every person who—
(a) was on the 30th day of June, 1932, the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society, and
(b) was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society immediately before the date of transfer in respect of such approved society, and
(c) had immediately before the said date of transfer at least one completed year of qualifying service, and
(d) was not at the said date of transfer offered permanent employment by the Unified Society at a rate of remuneration which, having regard to the remuneration previously received by him in respect of national health insurance services, is reasonable
shall, subject to the provisions of this section, be entitled to be paid by the Unified Society compensation under this section.
(2) The compensation payable to a person entitled to compensation under this section shall be a gratuity and the amount thereof shall be as follows, that is to say:—
(a) in case such person had less than five completed years of qualifying service, a sum calculated on the basis of one-fifth of his annual remuneration for every completed year of qualifying service;
(b) in case such person has five or more completed years of qualifying service, a sum calculated on the basis of one-sixth of his annual remuneration for every completed year of qualifying service together with a sum (not exceeding in any case ten-sixths of his annual remuneration) calculated on the basis of one-sixth of his annual remuneration for every two completed years of qualifying service.
(3) For the purposes of this section the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) each of the following persons shall be the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society, that is to say:—
(i) the secretary of such society,
(ii) a whole-time employee of such society,
(iii) a part-time employee of such society who proves to the satisfaction of the provisional committee that his earnings from such society were his principal means of livelihood;
(b) in ascertaining the qualifying service of a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society immediately before the date of transfer in respect of such society the whole of the period immediately before such date during which such person was the holder of a qualifying post or posts continuously in any approved society or societies and no other period or periods shall be reckoned as qualifying service;
(c) where a person who was a holder of a qualifying post under an approved society was temporarily absent from such post and during the whole of such absence was engaged in service in any of the military forces serving under the authority of the First Dáil Eireann, the Second Dáil Eireann, or the Provisional Government of Ireland, or in the British Army, Navy, or Air Force, or in either of the opposing forces during the civil strife in the years 1922, 1923, 1924 or was interned or imprisoned in consequence of such service, the following provisions shall have effect for the purposes of this sub-section, that is to say:—
(i) such person shall be deemed during such temporary absence to have been the holder of a qualifying post under such approved society and the period of such temporary absence shall be reckoned as qualifying service accordingly, and
(ii) if such person resumed his position as the holder of a qualifying post under such approved society not later than six months after the expiration of the period of such temporary absence, no interval of time shall be deemed to have elapsed between such expiration and such resumption, and
(iii) if such person resumed his position as the holder of a qualifying post under such approved society within a reasonable time after the expiration of the period of such temporary absence and the delay in such resumption was due to wounds or illness attributable to such service, internment, or imprisonment, or to no vacancy being available in such society, no interval of time shall be deemed to have elapsed between such expiration and such resumption;
(d) where a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society was temporarily absent from such post during labour disputes connected with such society, such person shall for the purposes of this sub-section be deemed during such temporary absence to have been the holder of a qualifying post under such society and the period of such temporary absence shall be reckoned as qualifying service accordingly;
(e) the annual remuneration of a person entitled to compensation under this section shall be taken to be—
(i) in case such person had at the 30th day of June, 1932, five or more completed years of qualifying service, his average annual remuneration as the holder of a qualifying post or posts under any approved society or societies during the five years ended on the 30th day of June, 1932, and
(ii) in any other case, his average annual remuneration as the holder of a qualifying post or posts under any approved society or societies during so much of his period of qualifying service as ended on the 30th day of June, 1932,
and in calculating his average annual remuneration any amount or amounts paid to such person for the provision of clerical assistance or other expenses or by way of bonus shall not be treated as part of his remuneration.
(4) Where—
(a) a person who though employed by some other person or body has in the course of such employment been engaged on health insurance work for an approved society, and
(b) such person ceases to be employed by such other person or body by reason of the transfer of the engagements of such society under this Act, and
(c) such person, if engaged part-time only on such work for such society, proves to the satisfaction of the provisional committee that the remuneration paid to him by such other person or body in respect of such work was his principal means of livelihood,
such person shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed in respect of every period during which he was engaged on such work for such society to have been the holder of a qualifying post under such society, but in calculating under sub-section (3) of this section his average annual remuneration as the holder of a qualifying post under such society no payments, other than payments in respect of such work for such society, shall be taken into account.
(5) Where—
(a) a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society would, but for his being offered at the date of transfer in respect of such society permanent employment by the Unified Society at a rate of remuneration which, having regard to the remuneration previously received by him in respect of national health insurance services is reasonable, be entitled to compensation under this section, and
(b) such person accepts such offer, and
(c) such person is dismissed (otherwise than for misconduct or illness) by the Unified Society within five years after the said date of transfer, such person may apply to the Minister for a declaration that he is entitled to compensation under this section and thereupon the Minister may, if he thinks it reasonable in all the circumstances of the case so to do, declare such person entitled to compensation under this section and upon such declaration being made such person shall, notwithstanding paragraph (d) of sub-section (1) of this section, be entitled to be paid by the Unified Society compensation under this section.
(6) Where a person entitled to compensation under this section is offered and accepts temporary employment by the Unified Society, he shall not be entitled to be paid such compensation until he has ceased to be employed by the Unified Society.
(7) Where compensation has been paid under this section to a person who, immediately before the date of transfer in respect of an approved society, was the holder of a qualifying post under such society and such person within three years from the said date of transfer is offered and accepts permanent employment with the Unified Society, such person shall repay to the Unified Society, either, as the Minister shall determine, the whole of such compensation or such part thereof as the Minister may fix.
(8) Any moneys payable by a person to the Unified Society under the immediately preceding sub-section shall be a debt due by such person to the Unified Society and may be recoverable as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.
(9) If any question arises as to the right of any person to compensation under this section or as to the amount of such compensation, such question shall be referred to the Minister, whose decision shall be final.
I move amendment No. 1:—
Section 22, sub-section (1) After the word "society" in line 12 to insert the words "in the same area if the person so insists."
This amendment deals with Section 22, which refers to the gratuities to be given to former secretaries and certain former employees of approved societies. Under the section certain employees are entitled to compensation, but if they have been offered permanent employment by the Unified Society and do not take that employment, they are not entitled to compensation. For instance, a man working in Limerick can be offered employment in Dublin; a man working in Cork can be offered employment in Dublin, or a man in Dublin can be offered employment in Cork. I am not speaking for one area more than another. The object of my amendment is to insert after the word "society" the words "in the same area if the person so insists." I think that if an officer wants to remain in the same area as that in which he formerly worked he should get employment there. As the Bill stands if such officers do not take up the employment offered to them they are not entitled to compensation. It should not be in the power of the Minister to transfer a man from Cork to Dublin or vice versa.
I think that the Senator should think again before pressing this amendment. I imagine the effect would be to preclude such a person from being taken over. If there was any likelihood of that person insisting on retaining his employment in one particular area, then the Unified Society would probably say: "Well, we are not going to take that risk and we shall not give him any chance of being taken over."
Moreover, the word "area" is not defined in the Bill. Therefore, the amendment would be nugatory inasmuch as it is indefinite.
We had this identical amendment before the Select Committee which discussed this Bill and it was unanimously negatived. It was pointed out that a civil servant must be prepared to go wherever his duty calls him. In effect, those who would be employed under this Bill would be civil servants.
I could not accept this amendment for a variety of reasons. Some of the reasons have been stated by Senators who spoke in opposition to the amendment. An additional reason is that it would tie the hands of the provisional committee which will have the work imposed upon them of organising the new staff. First of all, under the Bill as passed by the Dáil we are bound to offer employment or to make a reasonable offer of alternative employment to the official whom we propose to take over. There are at present quite a large number of secretaries and treasurers of societies and other senior officers scattered all over the country. There are, let us say, sixty secretaries all over the country and there will be only one secretary of the Unified Society. We could not offer that secretaryship to any secretary in any part of Ireland except to the one individual who will be selected for the position. We would have to offer him some other post which will, from the point of view of salary, be as near an approach as is possible and as we think reasonable to the post he held in the approved society of which he was an official. Any further restriction of this kind will make it more difficult for us to select officials from the country for, say, headquarters posts. It will make it more difficult to promote people.
If we know that there is a good man in Cork, Galway or Mayo—I do not know whether there is any really first-class man in Cork, Galway or those other places connected with approved societies but let us say that there did happen to be such a man— and we wanted him at headquarters because he had a reputation of being a really first-class man, if this amendment were passed and if he stood on his rights and insisted on remaining in Cork, we would be deprived of a good official and that official would probably be deprived of compensation. That is what it would mean.
As Senator Dowdall has said, there are rules and regulations governing the Civil Service by which civil servants are obliged, under the terms of their employment, to go wherever the Government of the day think they will serve best, and this body will be practically a Civil Service body. We think that any official who is taken into the new Unified Society ought to be allowed to serve anywhere he is wanted. We are, as I said earlier, obliged, under the terms of the Bill as it stands, to offer reasonable employment—reasonable in reference to their present position — to officials of approved societies who are taken over, and any restriction of the kind suggested would make it more difficult for us to do that.
I proposed an amendment on these lines at the Select Committee and, as Senator Dowdall has said, it was turned down. I got very little support for it, but the amendment does not require that a secretary in Galway should be made secretary of the Unified Society. It sets out that where an official is to be offered employment, it should be employment in the place in which he has already been working. Many of these employees have wives and families and it would be very difficult to expect them to break up their homes for a position in another district. In view, however, of the feeling of the House and the opposition which a similar amendment met at the Special Committee, I would ask Senator Staines to withdraw his amendment.
I am agreeable to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move amendment No. 2:—
Section 22, sub-section (3). To delete in line 50 the word "continuously."
As this sub-section stands, it cuts out compensation for any period of service before the period of unemployment, no matter how short that period of unemployment may have been. An employee may have worked for 18 years for an insurance society and, then, through some particular circumstance, may have become unemployed for a month or so and, subsequently, may have secured a second appointment. In such a case, no compensation will be payable in respect of the 18 years' service, but only in respect of the two or three years during which he held the new appointment. There are, I think, very few people affected by the amendment, but, as they are so few, I think the Minister should accept it. It is hard on the few who are affected that they should lose their previous service because they were unemployed for a short period.
Would the Senator give examples?
I have been told that there are people who will be affected but I do not know any of them personally.
If Senator Staines had a case presented to him in which a man was for 16 years in the employment of a society and, for two or three months, through no fault of his own ceased to have employment and then was taken on again, the Seanad might consider such a case but, in view of the fact that there is no case presented to us in which a man's period of service has been broken through no fault of his own, I do not see why we should further embarrass this measure by an amendment of this kind. When this measure first came before the House, I took a very strong stand in favour of the employees of the societies but, in this case, I do not think that we ought to support this amendment.
What is the necessity for the word "continuously?" It seems to me to be unhappily used. Senator Comyn declines to consider the merits of the amendment unless specific instances can be cited.
Specific cases of hardship.
Senator Staines has told the House that he is informed that there are some cases. If that is the case, this, obviously, is going to effect an injustice. We can only argue this in a more or less hypothetical way in the absence of specific cases but, on the exact reading of this sub-section, there must be continuous employment. If there is a break of only a week, it would be sufficient to disqualify an applicant for compensation. If the desire of the Minister, as I am sure it is, is to do justice in such a case, obviously the retention of this word "continuously" will prevent him from doing so. Until there is a case shown, until there is some evidence that the word "continuously" serves a useful purpose or is really necessary, I see no case for resisting the amendment.
I am afraid that Senator Comyn is trying to draw me——
No, I am not. I repudiate that suggestion.
The Senator knows as well as I do that it is not right to mention names in this House.
The Senator could state the facts of a case.
Cathaoirleach
I do not think it is right to argue particular cases in this House.
I have got particulars of a few of these cases from the chairman of a trade union of insurance officials. Is that plain enough?
He gave me the names but I did not take them and, anyway, I would not dream of mentioning them here.
I think Senator Staines misunderstands me. What I say is that in all cases where compensation is allowed, the rule is that the service to qualify for compensation must be continuous service. The service may be broken. If it is broken through no fault of the person concerned, Senator Staines would have a case, but if it is broken through his fault, then, I think, continuous service ought to be insisted on because I can imagine a case—I do not know the facts—in which a man might be employed by an approved society and, for some reason involving his own conduct, he might have been put out of employment and then through his own or his friends' request and relying on the good nature of people, he might have got back. In such a case as that, when it comes to a question of compensation, would you give him compensation based on the service that he had given before he was dismissed?
Does Senator Comyn wish to imply that that is the nature of the cases Senator Staines has in mind?
That case is covered by the amendment of Senator Staines, so that the Senator will have to go a little more definitely into the question.
This is also an amendment which, I am afraid, I could not accept. We had a discussion in the Dáil on this same matter, on, I think, an exactly similar amendment and cases were cited in which people might have been out of employment, temporarily but for a considerable time, through illness and cases were also mentioned of men who had served in armies or navies or who might have been out of employment for a time through labour troubles. We put in paragraphs (c) and (d) in this sub-section specifically to cover this class of case but we objected to the deletion of the word "continuously" because it would leave us open to having claims made against the Unified Society for compensation to people who had actually been dismissed from an approved society and who, for some reason or another, had been taken into another approved society after a lapse of one, two, three or five years. We do not think that such people ought to be entitled to, or ought to receive, compensation for the earlier period of employment under the approved society. The underlying principle of compensation here is compensation for the post the person is losing. If a person held another post at a period a long time anterior and if there was a lapse of time between his occupancy of that post and his occupancy of his present post, we do not think there is any obligation on the Unified Society to give compensation for the earlier employment. It is where there is continuous employment broken, as Senator Comyn said, through no fault of the person concerned, that the obligation which we accept rests on the Unified Society to give compensation. There are cases, I believe, known to national health insurance officials in which persons have lost their employment with an approved society through their own fault and who are now employed by another society but it is my opinion, having gone into the matter with officials, that these persons are not entitled to compensation for the earlier period of their employment with an approved society. We are compensating them for loss of a specific office and we believe that that is all we are morally bound to do.
I do not want to provide compensation for people who were dismissed because of misconduct or anything like that. I want to provide compensation for people who changed their occupations and became clerks or accountants in other firms and, subsequently, resumed insurance work. These are the people whom it is my desire to compensate.
Amendment put and declared lost.
I move amendment 3:
Section 22, sub-section (3). After the word "service" in line 56 to insert the words "in any of the following organisations, that is to say, Oglaigh na hEireann (Irish Republican Army), the Irish Volunteers, the Irish Citizen Army, Fianna Eireann, the Hibernian Rifles and Cumann na mBan during the Rising of April and May, 1916, or".
This amendment is proposed to meet a point that was made in the Dáil: that certain people who were perhaps out of employment in an approved society as a result of 1916 and who were members of the various organisations set out would not ordinarily have been covered by the Bill as it stood. The intention of the amendment is to cover such people.
I agree with the principle of the amendment. I do not know why "Irish Republican Army" is put in. The Irish phrase "Oglaigh na h-Eireann" means in English, to my mind, "Soldiers of Ireland." Oglaigh na hEireann in 1916 included the Irish Volunteers, the Irish Citizen Army, Fianna Eireann, the Hibernian Rifles and Cumann na mBan. There was no such thing as an Irish Republican Army in 1916. Why then put it in here? The thing is unnecessary. There was no such thing in 1916, and so far as I can see, the only purpose of it is to cover up people whose imagination has developed so much—I mean that a section of their brain has developed so much in comparison to other sections of it—that they believe they were in the Post Office in 1916. In 1916, not more than 90 men marched into the Post Office, but I have met tens of thousands of people since who, according to themselves, were in the Post Office in 1916. I would like to know, therefore, why "Irish Republican Army" is put into the amendment? That army did not exist at that time. It is put in here simply to cover up such people as I have mentioned: to let them come along and claim that they were in the Irish Republican Army. As I have said, that army did not exist in 1916. It came into being when Dáil Eireann took over Oglaigh na h-Eireann, and that included all the other organisations mentioned here. When Dáil Eireann took over all these organisations we got for the first time the "Irish Republican Army," and that, as well as I remember, was about the year 1919. But the Irish Republican Army was certainly not in existence in 1916.
I think Senator Staines is under some sort of misapprehension. We have here in the amendment the phrase "Oglaigh na h-Eireann," and in brackets "Irish Republican Army." That is to say, that the two phrases mean the same thing. I hope that any gentleman who by force of saying that he was in the Post Office in 1916 is going to believe it now—that sometimes happens—will not be allowed to get the benefit of the section, but surely whether such persons say that or not, will they not be required to prove that they were concerned in "the rising of April and May, 1916"?
They cannot prove it because the Irish Republican Army was not there at that time.
The amendment speaks of "Oglaigh na hEireann," and then, as I have said, we have following that in brackets the words "Irish Republican Army."
That is a wrong translation of the Irish words.
If they were in the rising in 1916, in whatever capacity, I presume the object is to make an allowance in their favour.
We were anxious, first of all, to cover the points that were up in the Dáil. I think it was Deputy Norton who first raised this point about 1916. He called my attention to the fact that these people might not have been covered, and we were anxious to cover everybody. Of course if we said Irish Republican Brotherhood, Senator Staines might be better pleased. He probably would tell us that that would be a more accurate description. But these are the draftsman's words. If we said Irish Republican Brotherhood, Senator Staines perhaps might be able to enlighten us on that end of it, because I think he is an authority on the matter. At any rate we are anxious to cover everybody and to make it as widespread as we can, so that people who for good patriotic motives were out of their employment during that period, perhaps were imprisoned or were on the run or out of their offices, might not be deprived of compensation.
Amendment put and declared carried.
I move amendment 4:—
Section 22, sub-section (3). To delete lines 29-39 inclusive, page 9, and to substitute therefor the words "the remuneration for the last calendar year before the date of termination of service."
The Bill as it stands decrees that for compensation purposes the average remuneration for the five years ended 30th June, 1932, shall be the basis of the calculation. For an employee to be dismissed in 1934/5/6 and to be compensated on a salary as far back as 1927 is most unjust, especially to younger people whose salaries were steadily growing. The income that will be lost will not be the income of 1927-1932, but the salary at the date of dismissal. I think it is only fair that the same principle should apply in this Bill as in other measures dealing with compensation passed by the Oireachtas.
I hope the Minister will accept this amendment. It is really seeking to incorporate in the Bill a principle that has been enshrined in every other Bill that I know of in which compensation for loss of employment is involved. When you are depriving a man of his employment, what you are really taking from him is the salary that he was enjoying in the last year of his employment: not the average salary going back over a number of years. A man, say, starts with a salary of £100 a year. In five years his salary, because of increments of £10 a year that he has received, has gone up to £150 a year. Why should you take the average then? Is it not his last year's salary that you are depriving him of as well as the prospective enjoyment of that salary for the future, or perhaps a higher salary? Now if it was good and proper to introduce the principle suggested in the amendment in the Railways Act of 1924, in the Railways Act of this year, and I think also in the Electricity Supply Act and, so far as I know, in the Local Government Act, it does seem extraordinary that a different and less favourable principle, as far as these men are concerned, should be introduced into this Bill. In my opinion this is an eminently reasonable amendment. It seeks to extend equity of treatment to people deprived of their employment, and I hope the Minister will accept it.
I do not propose to question all that Senator O'Farrell has said in regard to the Railways Acts, but so far as my recollection goes this is the principle of compensation which has been adopted in the Local Government Code from the year 1898 coming down through the years 1924 and 1925 to the present time. So far as I recollect the basis of compensation was always the average, and I think the average was three years. Therefore, I think that Senator O'Farrell is wrong in supposing that a new principle is being introduced here. I think the only respect in which it is new is in extending the term from three to five.
I am sorry that I cannot accept this amendment moved by Senator Staines. There is this difference between this Bill and some of the others mentioned by Senator O'Farrell: that in this case the money to provide compensation for the disemployed officials has to come out of the Administration Fund, and that is a limited sum. Already we have, through accepting amendments in the Dáil, and one that was put up by the Select Committee of the Seanad and that we propose to accept here, bitten into the Administration Fund for compensation purposes much more heavily than was originally intended. As a matter of fact the officials upon whose shoulders will devolve the work of managing this fund are very worried that I have seen fit to go as far as I have done in accepting propositions that have been put up here and in the Dáil for an improvement in the compensation to be awarded to officials. I do not know whether what is asked in this amendment would amount to a great deal or not, but I believe that I have more than reached the limit with regard to the inroads that I can make on the Administration Fund. Therefore, I do not think that I can accept the amendment.
On a show of hands the amendment was declared carried.
I move amendment 5:
Section 22, sub-section (3). To delete in line 40, page 9, the word "average."
This amendment is consequential on the last one.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment 6:
Section 22, sub-section (4). To delete in line 61 the word "average."
This amendment is also consequential.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment 7:
Section 22, sub-section (8). To delete in line 37 the word "recoverable" and to substitute therefor the word "recovered."
This is merely a drafting amendment.
Amendment agreed to.
On behalf of Senator Robinson, I move amendment 8:—
Section 22. To delete the new sub-section (10) inserted by the Seanad in Select Committee.
This amendment proposes to delete an amendment moved by me and inserted in Select Committee. Those of us who are interested in the matter had a conversation with the Minister, and it was agreed to have my amendment deleted and to insert instead amendment 9 which, it is felt, will be more satisfactory all round.
Amendment agreed to.
On behalf of Senator Robinson, I move amendment 9:—
New section. Before Section 23 to insert a new section as follows:—
23.—(1) Every person who—
(a) was on the 30th day of June, 1932, the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society, and
(b) was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society immediately before the date of transfer in respect of such approved society, and
(c) had immediately before the said date of transfer at least one completed year of qualifying service, and
(d) was not at the said date of transfer offered permanent employment by the Unified Society at a rate of remuneration which, having regard to the remuneration previously received by him in respect of national health insurance services, is reasonable,
shall, subject to the provisions of this section, be entitled to be paid by the Unified Society compensation under this section.
(2) The compensation payable to a person entitled to compensation under this section shall be a gratuity and the amount thereof shall be a sum (not exceeding in any case the amount of his annual remuneration) calculated on the basis of one-twelfth of his annual remuneration for every completed year of qualifying service. (3) For the purposes of this section the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) each of the following persons shall be the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society, that is to say:—
(i) a part-time officer of such society;
(ii) a part-time employee of such society whose earnings from such society were not his principal means of livelihood;
(b) in ascertaining the qualifying service of a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society immediately before the date of transfer in respect of such society the whole of the period immediately before such date during which such person was the holder of a qualifying post or posts continuously in any approved society or societies and no other period or periods shall be reckoned as qualifying service;
(c) the provisions of paragraphs (c) and (d) of the immediately preceding section shall apply in respect of a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society, within the meaning of this section, in like manner as the said provisions apply in respect of a person who was the holder of a qualifying post within the meaning of the said immediately preceding section;
(d) the annual remuneration of a person entitled to compensation under this section shall be taken to be twelve times his average monthly remuneration in respect of the year 1932 as the holder of a qualifying post or posts under an approved society or societies, and in calculating his annual remuneration any amount or amounts paid to such person for the provision of clerical assistance or other expenses or by way of bonus shall not be treated as part of his remuneration.
(4) Where—
(a) a person who though employed by some other person or body has in the course of such employment been engaged part-time on health insurance work for an approved society, and
(b) the remuneration of such person in respect of such work was not his principal means of livelihood,
such person shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed in respect of every period during which he was engaged on such work for such society to have been the holder of a qualifying post under such society, but in calculating under sub-section (3) of this section his annual remuneration as the holder of a qualifying post under such society no payments, other than payments in respect of such work for such society, shall be taken into account.
(5) Where—
(a) a person who was the holder of a qualifying post under an approved society would, but for his being offered at the date of transfer in respect of such society permanent employment by the Unified Society at a rate of remuneration which, having regard to the remuneration previously received by him in respect of national health insurance services is reasonable, be entitled to compensation under this section, and
(b) such person accepts such offer, and
(c) such person is dismissed (otherwise than for misconduct or illness) by the Unified Society within five years after the said date of transfer,
such person may apply to the Minister for a declaration that he is entitled to compensation under this section and thereupon the Minister may, if he thinks it reasonable in all the circumstances of the case so to do, declare such person entitled to compensation under this section and upon such declaration being made such person shall, notwithstanding paragraph (d) of sub-section (1) of this section, be entitled to be paid by the Unified Society compensation under this section.
(6) Where a person entitled to compensation under this section is offered and accepts temporary employment by the Unified Society, he shall not be entitled to be paid such compensation until he has ceased to be employed by the Unified Society.
(7) Where compensation has been paid under this section to a person who immediately before the date of transfer in respect of an approved society was the holder of a qualifying post under such society and such person within three years from the said date of transfer is offered and accepts permanent employment with the Unified Society, such person shall repay to the Unified Society, either, as the Minister shall determine, the whole of such compensation or such part thereof as the Minister may fix and any amount so repayable may be paid in instalments extending over such period as the Minister may consider reasonable.
(8) Any moneys payable by a person to the Unified Society under the immediately preceding sub-section shall be a debt due by such person to the Unified Society and may be recovered as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.
(9) If any question arises as to the right of any person to compensation under this section or as to the amount of such compensation, such question shall be referred to the Minister, whose decision shall be final.
This amendment is being inserted in lieu of the amendment accepted in the Select Committee.
Amendment agreed to.
Section 22, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 23.
(1) All moneys required to meet the payment of compensation under the immediately preceding section shall from time to time be advanced by the Minister out of the National Health Insurance Fund, and every advance shall be repaid by the Unified Society to the said Fund, with interest thereon from the date on which it is made at such rate as the Minister for Finance may determine, in such manner as may be prescribed out of moneys available for the costs of administration.
(2) All moneys paid for compensation under the immediately preceding section shall be deemed to be expenditure on administration, but the provisions of Section 3 of the Act of 1911 as amended by sub-section (4) of Section 1 of the National Health Insurance Act, 1920, shall not apply to such moneys, but shall apply to the moneys required by the immediately preceding sub-section to be repaid to the National Health Insurance Fund.
The following Government amendments were agreed to:—
Amendment 10. Section 23, sub-section (1). To delete in line 44 the words "immediately preceding section" and to substitute therefor the words "two immediately preceding sections."—Senator Séamus Robinson.
Amendment 11. Section 23, sub-section (2). To delete in line 51-52 the words "immediately preceding section" and to substitute therefor the words "two immediately preceding sections."—Senator Séamus Robinson.
Section 23, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Sections 24 to 30, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 31.
(3) The person or persons appointed under this section to hear any such appeal or dispute shall have power to take evidence on oath (which such person or, where two or more persons are so appointed, any one of such persons is hereby authorised to administer) to persons attending as witnesses at such hearing.
The following Government amendment was agreed to:—
Amendment 12. Section 31, sub-section (3). To delete in lines 28-30 the words and brackets "(which such person or, where two or more persons are so appointed, any one of such persons is hereby authorised to administer)" and to substitute therefor the words "and for that purpose such person or, where two or more persons are so appointed, any one of such persons may administer oaths."—Senator Séamus Robinson.
Section 31, as amended, agreed to.
Section 32, Schedule and Title agreed to.
Cathaoirleach
The Report Stage will be taken on Wednesday.
Will the House be meeting earlier than that?
Cathaoirleach
We shall be very busy on Tuesday. The House might agree to take the next stage earlier than that.
I suggest that we take the next stage on Friday.
Cathaoirleach
In that event, amendments will be accepted up to to-morrow.
Fourth Stage fixed for Friday, 7th July.
