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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 Dec 1933

Vol. 17 No. 26

Harbours (Regulation of Rates) Bill, 1933—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of the Bill is to provide machinery for the regulation and the variation of rates leviable at harbours. At present, rates leviable at harbours controlled by bodies of commissioners or trustees are authorised by special Acts and Provisional Orders made from time to time in respect of the undertakings. The number of enactments and orders is upwards of 100, dating from 1820 onwards, and, though they do not all deal with the levying and collection of rates, most of them include provisions relating in one way or another to the matter. In practically every case the rates authorised relate to the maximum charges which the harbour authority may levy and so long as that limitation is not exceeded, and so long as the rates charged are charged equally to all persons in respect of the same descriptions of vessels and goods, the harbour authority has complete discretion as to the amount to be charged and the incidence between various rates of a particular character and between different classes of rates. There is at present little or no similarity between rates charged at one port and those at another and that is due to the fact that these undertakings have, up to date, developed independently of each other.

Under existing statutes, the Minister for Industry and Commerce has, in relation to certain harbours, powers to adjust the rates to the revenue requirements of the undertaking. Under the Harbours, Docks and Piers (Temporary Increase of Charges) Act, 1920, he has power to authorise a temporary increase in charges. The existing powers, however, have been found to be insufficient in various respects. For example, it is not possible under the existing powers to alter the incidence of the rates as between vessels of different classes or as between tonnage rates on vessels and the rates on goods, unless such alteration was required either as a corollary to the adjustment of the revenue of the undertaking or for the purpose of increasing the charges to enable the port to operate without loss.

The Ports and Harbours Tribunal, which reported in 1930, considered the present position in respect to harbour rates and made a number of recommendations. In paragraph 1085 they state:—

"We recommend that the present system of fixing rates by Special Act or Provisional Order should be departed from and that a simpler and more elastic system should be introduced. In our opinion, maximum rates on vessels and goods should be fixed by the Department of Industry and Commerce for each port, after due inquiry into the revenue requirements of the undertaking and after hearing and considering any representations by the authority or by parties concerned."

In paragraph 1086 they state:

"It is, in our opinion, necessary and desirable that harbour authorities should have power, within proper limits, to deal, by varying their rates, with local conditions and requirements and to assist, for example, an existing industry or develop a new one."

In these two paragraphs the Tribunal was concerned with the existing procedure for the various rates. At the present time, any harbour authority desiring to vary the maximum or minimum rates of charge have to promote a special Act or Provisional Order. They recommended that power should be given to the Minister to make a variation by Order on representations from the harbour authority and after hearing any interested party. They went on to say, however, in paragraph 1087:

"There remains the question of dealing with complaints by traders or ship owners who may consider themselves aggrieved by the rates actually charged in particular cases. The Department of Industry and Commerce should have power to deal with such complaints and, after due inquiry, to vary by Order any rates charged by a harbour board which, in the opinion of the Department, operate unjustly or have been fixed as a result of prejudice or unfair partiality. We look upon this power as a necessary part of the general oversight of harbour administration which we recommend should be assigned as one of the duties of the Department."

Again in paragraph 1088 they state:

"We recommend, further, that the Department should be empowered to move with a view to varying maximum rates and, in certain circumstances, to enforce the levying of actual rates without an application from an interested party."

The Bill gives effect to these recommendations of the Ports and Harbours Tribunal. It may be asked why we have decided to act upon these recommendations in advance of the general Bill to give effect to all the recommendations of the Tribunal. The answer is that it appears that some considerable time must elapse before the general Bill can be prepared and introduced. In the meantime, it is considered desirable that these particular recommendations should be brought into effect so that any variation in harbour rates desired by a harbour authority or considered necessary by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, on the representation of parties, whether traders or shippers, who allege that their interests are being prejudiced or, having regard to considerations of general policy, by the Minister on his own initiative, should be made possible. Since the Bill was introduced in the Dáil, various representations have been made by harbour authorities and various recommendations have been made for the amendment of the Bill. In the long run, these suggestions boil themselves down to the proposal that, whenever the Minister proposes to make, amend or revoke a harbour rates order, notice of the intention should be published and any interested party should be given power to make representations to the Minister, these representations to be followed either by action on the part of the Minister or by a decision on his part to institute a local inquiry into the proposed new rates order. I introduced, on the Report Stage in the Dáil, an amendment designed to meet that particular proposal. It has not, apparently, entirely satisfied the different harbour authorities and I propose to suggest to the Seanad on Committee Stage a further amendment which will, I think, make quite clear to these harbour authorities that we desire to give full effect to their suggestion. It will be an amendment to Section 5, designed to ensure that when it is proposed to make, amend or revoke a harbour rates order, adequate public notice will be given and power given to interested parties to make whatever representations they desire.

A further section of the Bill, which has nothing to do with its general purport, is a section which improves Section 2 of the Ministry of Transport Act, 1919. The effect of this amendment is to permit the transfer to the Department of Industry and Commerce of functions, powers and duties relating to harbours, docks and piers to be limited to powers and duties relating to one or more particular harbours, docks and piers. That amendment is considered necessary for administrative reasons. It is of no special importance, but advantage is being taken of the introduction of this Bill to give effect to that provision.

I do not suppose that this Bill is regarded in any sense as a contentious measure. In any event, any suggestions that have to be made concerning it will probably be more conveniently discussed on Committee Stage. In principle, the Bill is designed to give effect to the recommendations of the Ports and Harbours Tribunal in the paragraphs of its report which I have quoted.

I agree with the Minister that this is a very good and necessary Bill. I say that because I had experience some years ago of a harbour board. The Bill provides a more elastic but, I think, more useful and less costly procedure than that afforded by Provisional Order, which was the procedure which had to be adopted heretofore. I think it is quite right to implement the recommendations of the Tribunal in respect of the matters set out in the Bill because I think that it will not be possible to introduce any Bill which will carry out all the recommendations of that Tribunal. The recommendations are very good but the diversity of matters dealt with and the interests of the different ports are such that it would be very difficult to frame a Bill which would embody all the recommendations. I was pleased to hear the Minister say that he will give consideration to any suggestions to carry out what, I think, he intended to carry out in the amendment which he introduced on the Report Stage of this Bill in the Dáil. Speaking for myself, I think that the Bill is almost satisfactory as it is but, to make assurance doubly sure, I shall put forward a suggestion by the Cork Harbour Board for the Minister's consideration. I think that it will effect what he intended to effect in the amendment which he introduced on Report Stage. I think that this Bill should be passed into law as quickly as possible.

I support the remarks made by Senator Dowdall. It has been suggested from Cork—which, I hope, is not altogether against the suggestion —that the following amendment might be made:—

(1) Make it obligatory on the Minister to hold an inquiry if requested by the harbour authority concerned before making a harbour rates order, or

(2) that the Minister should follow the procedure laid down in the Cork Act—namely, that before making a harbour rates order he should cause notice of the proposal to make the order to be published and should consider any representations which may be made to him in consequence of such notice.

I feel confident that the Minister will be able to satisfy Senator Dowdall, the Cork Harbour Commissioners and myself.

I support this Bill very warmly. It carries out several of the recommendations of the Ports and Harbours Tribunal. Anybody who has read that report must desire to see these recommendations carried out. I have a long experience of the Irish ports and I think that the Bill meets, at all events, some of the urgent requirements.

Of the two suggestions made by Senator Crosbie, I was disposed to accept the second. The suggestion was made originally that there should be a local inquiry in every case. That suggestion was, obviously, impracticable and undesirable, because, in the majority of cases where a harbour rates order is likely to be made, no opposition will be forthcoming; everybody will agree that the order should be made and, in these circumstances, it would be obviously undesirable to put the authority to the expense of a local inquiry. The suggestion was then made that a local inquiry should be held whenever the harbour authority so desired. That might be quite feasible in relation to the larger harbours but, in relation to some of the smaller harbours, it is undesirable because there might be a tendency to suggest a local inquiry without serious consideration and without any serious intention of paying the costs of the inquiry when held. The experience of the Department of Industry and Commerce is that it is very hard to get some of these small harbour authorities to pay anything. The second of the suggestions was preferable—that wherever it was intended to make, amend or revoke an order relating to harbour rates, notice of intention should be given and procedure laid down for the making of representations. In the original Bill, it was provided that such notice would be given "if the Minister at his discretion so directs." In the amendment on the Report Stage, we deleted those words and said that notice of the proposed order "shall be published at such time or times and in such manner as the Minister directs." The wording of the sub-section however was left otherwise unaltered and it commences as follows:—"Whenever the Minister has made or proposes to make." A fear was expressed that we might give notice of the intention after the Order was made and, consequently, on the Committee Stage in the Seanad, it is proposed to take out the words "has made or" with consequential amendments throughout, so that it will be quite clear whenever it is proposed to make an Order that the notice will be published and the representations made considered before the Order is, in fact, actually made.

Senator Sir John Griffith says that this Bill is one of the recommendations of the Ports and Harbours Tribunal. Could the Minister give the House any indication when the other recommendations of the Tribunal will be carried into effect? I am very interested in those recommendations.

I am particularly anxious that no delay should take place in the preparation of the necessary legislation; but that is going to be a very big task and, although work is proceeding on it, I would not like to mention any definite date by which it is likely to be completed. The work falls mainly on the transport section of the Department of Industry and Commerce, which has already a considerable volume of work placed upon it under the various Transport Acts that have been passed. That work will ease off in the very near future and, when all the preliminary arrangements under these Acts have been completed, ordinary routine work will start again. When we arrive at that stage we should be able to make, in relation to this legislation, much more rapid progress than has been possible heretofore.

I desire to express gratification at the way the Minister has met our suggestions.

Question agreed to. Bill read a Second Time. Committee Stage fixed for Wednesday, 13th December, 1933.

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