Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Feb 1976

Vol. 83 No. 10

Juries Bill, 1975: Report and Final Stages.

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 4, line 42, after "person" to insert "or someone acting on his behalf in the event of his incapacity through illness or otherwise,".

As I mentioned on the Committee Stage, I am bringing in this amendment to meet the Minister's point with regard to section 9 (2) that it might be undesirable to allow any person to make representations to the registrar. At the same time, he endeavours to meet the point I was making that there could certainly be circumstances where it would be very difficult or impossible for the person himself to make representations, the most obvious one being if he is ill. I propose that the Minister should therefore accept this amendment which would have the effect of requiring the person himself to make representations to the registrar's satisfaction that there was a good reason why he should be excused except in the event of the person's incapacity through illness, an accident or something of that kind. In that case one would envisage his wife or some immediate relative getting in touch with the registrar who could then act on this once he was satisfied that the man or woman was unable to make the representation. It would improve the subsection without bringing in the Deputies, Senators, county councillors and so on that the Minister was afraid of and indeed without bringing in the employers themselves, which would be most undesirable. They would be inclined to ring up and say that that person was essential.

In support of what has been said here it is a humane amendment that has a note of practicality in it. It deals with a particular situation. It is precisely a person who is incapacitated, mainly through illness, who would be seeking the remedies in section 9. Therefore, the person who would be seeking the excusal could only act through somebody else.

I think the Senator is envisaging a situation where a person is ill and he or she is interpreting the section to mean that such a person could not get another person to tell the registrar: "I am sick. I am not able to go to court. Could you take back your summons?" Quite frankly I think that is an unreal situation. If a person is ill and his wife, son or someone else goes along and says: "Mr. X who got the summons is ill. He is suffering from so-and-so. Here is the doctor's certificate". That is the end of that. The registrar would be entitled to grant the excusal. He could not insist on a man coming who was unable to come. That is about the size of it. If the amendment was to be accepted it would be equally valid to have it in relation to subsection (1), paragraph (a), (b) and (c). Take for example, subsection (1) (a). It would be necessary after the words:

that person is one of the persons specified in Part II of the First Schedule

and the words:

informs the county registrar.

to insert the words: "he or someone acting on his behalf in the event of his incapacity through illness or otherwise". To be entirely consistent one would have to insert the same amendment in those three paragraphs. Perhaps not so much in paragraph (a) but certainly in paragraphs (b) and (c) it would have to be inserted.

It might meet what the Senator has in mind if we were to put in a new subsection (3) that if a person was summoned as a juror under this Act and is unable, owing to illness or any other reason, to make any representation to the county registrar under subsection (1) or (2), other persons may make representation on his behalf. That would possibly meet what the Senator has in mind. But I feel there is no need for it.

The words "if that person shows to the registrar" clearly allow that person to show through his wife, son, solicitor or through some third party to the registrar that he is ill or whatever the reason for his non-attendance or his wish to be excused. If we get in "someone acting on his behalf" there is the danger here that I adverted to in the case of Senator Ryan's amendment. It is less of a danger because the person has to be acting on his behalf and I presume he would have to be seen to be so. Again, somebody acting on behalf of a person whose IQ is a matter of some doubt or who has some handicap might think that that person was fit to be summoned, but there could be a third party intervening. I admit that it is possibly unlikely to happen. The use of the words "on his behalf" would probably cure that unless a very badly disposed person were to claim to be acting on behalf of somebody else without having authority to do so.

I am in some dilemma about the amendment. I would prefer not to accept it on the grounds that I think it is unnecessary and it is adding words in subsection (2) which, strictly speaking, to be logical, should be added in the earlier subsection. I do not know if the suggested new subsection (3) I have read out would satisfy the Senator. That is, to put that in a new subsection to deal specifically with making representations where a person is ill and so on. Can Senators imagine a situation where a person is ill, but the county registrar would say: "I am sorry. Unless he tells me himself that he is ill, I cannot accept that he is ill"?

You could have such a legalistic county registrar. After all, we are legislating. The Minister's suggestion is the right approach: to put in an amendment covering the section as a whole. I agree with him in that.

We will introduce a new subsection which will meet the point Senator Yeats raised in his amendment. What is the procedure about the drafting of it?

We will leave it to the Minister and his Department: We trust them completely.

I will hand in an amendment.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Does the Minister wish to hand it in now?

I might have to look at it and cross a "t" here and there.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

If the House is agreeable we could take it now.

We could have a sos for a few minutes.

Government amendment No. 2:
In page 4 between lines 44 and 45 to insert the following new subsection:
"( ) If a person summoned as a juror under this Act is unable, owing to illness or any other reason, to make any representation to a county registrar under subsections (1) or (2), another person may make the representation on his behalf."

I thank the Minister for meeting the point. That is fine.

Amendment agreed to.
Bill received for final consideration and passed.
The Seanad adjourned at 1.20 p.m.sine die.
Top
Share