Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 18 Dec 1980

Vol. 95 No. 7

Sale of Irish Goods: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

"That Seanad Éireann calls for immediate and sustained backing for the efforts of the Government and the Irish Goods Council in promoting the sale of Irish goods."—(Senator Hyland.)

Mrs. Hussey

I am very glad that time was found to resume the debate on this motion in the names of Senators Hyland and Mulcahy. It goes without saying that we all support the efforts of the Irish Goods Council and congratulate them on their efforts in this very difficult area. Saying that we support their efforts does not necessarily mean that we are deprived of our critical faculties. One must be totally honest in what one has to say and I hope my criticism will be accepted in the constructive manner in which it is intended. If we cannot be constructive in this House we might as well not be here.

The Irish Goods Council may have missed the Christmas shopping spree. I say that because I really do not know how serious they were, and are, about getting at Irish housewives—the consumers who buy and consume most of the products sold over our counters. I threw out a figure at the beginning of this debate last week that £80 in every £100 was spent by women on consumer goods. Some surprise was expressed. I have been unable to find anybody who will either deny or verify that figure. However, I do not see the illogicality of it at all, because if one goes out of this House any day of the week and into the shops of this city or this country one can see that the people who go into those shops with their shopping lists are the women. At this time of the year the shops are full of women clutching Christmas lists of food and presents for people. After all, it is the wife and mother who buys the vast majority of the presents in the house. She has to think about the aged parent and the children, the cousins and the aunts, while her husband probably can only find the time to buy a present for her, if she is lucky, or perhaps he might have some words of advice. On the whole the vast majority of expenditure is done by women. Coming up to Christmas, having ventured into the Christmas rush, I noticed very few men in any of the big department stores.

I am aware that men particularly young husbands increasingly help out with shopping at weekends in supermarkets. That is a very good trend but it does not alter the fact that the vast majority of that kind of shopping is done by women. I would ask the Irish Goods Council if they are aware that 250,000 women are members of women's organisations? Were they aware that in the month of November alone a thousand women went to a national forum organised by the Council for the Status of Women, a thousand women went to a seminar organised by the Women's Political Association to hear an American Speaker, and 1,500 women went to Liberty Hall to hear another American speaker, all in the space of one month? I did not see the Irish Goods Council at any of those meetings. My information is that they did not approach the organisers of those very well publicised meetings to have a stand or a stall at those meetings along with all the stands and stalls that were there from booksellers and lots of people who knew that this was a very powerful place in which to get a message across.

I am not blaming the Irish Goods Council because, after all, the Irish Goods Council have only one women on their board and, like so many other organisations here, they are very top heavy with men. That is a deficiency which we must, in a constructive way, alter. The women I am talking about could be motivated to swing the balance in this whole area of buying Irish. They are doing an extremely important job. They are in fact conducting the largest service industry in this country and the tools of their trade are the shopping baskets that they go out with every day of the week. They have to buy the tools of the trade to do their job. They are the largest work force here and they could swing the balance in this issue. I know that the Irish Goods Council sent out some posters and things to many groups including some women's groups. I know that they have occasionally addressed ladies clubs and occasionally women's organisations. But I am talking about real action, real communication, really interesting the women. That is why I say that they have missed this Christmas spending spree. Let us hope that we can put this right in the New Year. A New Year's resolution for the Irish Goods Council could be that they arrange with the politicians, who express concern all the time about employment, to have the heads of all these women's organisations brought into Leinster House and that the political parties arrange for them to meet the Taoiseach, the leader of Fine Gael, the leader of the Labour Party and that a publicity blitz is done on the economic facts, so that the economic powers they have are put before the women, and they are told that they hold the key to the success or failure of the "Buy Irish" campaign. They undoubtedly do. That sort of meeting should then be followed up with the kind of advertisement which will mean something to women. I do not mean having Michael Mullen, Liam Connellan and Vivion Murray sitting behind a desk on a television screen lecturing us. I mean having somebody like Cammilla Hannon, an articulate delightful woman, President of the Irish Countrywomen's Association, on that television screen talking to her 29,000 members about their power to swing the employment crisis.

I am not happy about that £1/4 million on the advertising campaign. It has not impinged on women. I stress, because I do not want to be considered to be negative in my approach at all, that women have felt excluded from this campaign. They have said so. Women in women's organisations have not been made to feel that they are the principal people involved in the work of buying food. Let us look at the figure — £450 million on a food import bill. About £100 million of that could be done away with. We could reduce that food import bill to £350 million. Who buys the food here? It is not the men, but the women. We will not get at women by diversifying efforts like that. We will have to go out and attack them in a specific manner.

The Irish Goods Council sent me a couple of copies of their publication Irish Good News, Nos. 1, 2 and 3. It is significant that in issue No. 1, 12 men and one women, the consumer products manager, Miss O'Sullivan, are photographed. I congratulate her on the splendid work that she is doing. In issue No. 2, 30 men and eight women are photographed. In issue No. 3, 24 men and four women are photographed. On the board of the Irish Goods Council, nine of the board members are men and one is a woman, and the chief executive and chairman are men. That kind of imbalance in an organisation in which women must play such an important part is the failure to communicate with women. The year 1981 should be the year when the Irish Goods Council make women's contributions to Irish employment a key issue. One has to approach and mobilise the people who really matter when it comes to buying in Ireland, the people who could be the major force in shifting the balance from imported to native Irish goods. I plead with the Irish Goods Council to sit down with the women politicians in these Houses — there are 14 women here — to discuss how we can get through to Irish women, to make Irish women feel that by their patriotic actions they can make a great difference to this country.

Mr. Lambert

I am delighted with Senator Hussey's contribution to this because as far as I am concerned it is the women who buy the products that I am concerned with. I am afraid I have to remind her that men usually buy the industrial goods which is the very important aspect of the "Buy Irish" Campaign. We tend to get carried away by the consumer products, as distinct from the ordinary capital products.

In relation to the campaign, earlier this year I was concerned that it was running out of momentum because it was a bit too sophisticated for the general public. There were certain negative undertones in the maxim — do not buy Irish unless it carries the guaranteed Irish symbol. This has concerned me because we are now Europeans and many European directives in connection with food in particular and other products make it mandatory to put certain information on one's product and on one's packaging. If one puts the "E" on the packaging or on the goods, that means it is accepted by the European community. The "G" means nothing outside this country. That is the point that concerns me in this whole campaign. It has served its purpose; I do not want to deprecate it in any way, and I am very glad that a stronger campaign has been initiated for the Christmas season. I am the first to admit that it has helped my trade both with the retailers and the consumers. We must, however, not rest on our laurels.

Our competitive position is being eroded by the excessive incomes which we are awarding ourselves and our labour costs are outstripping those of our competitors in the European countries. A campaign to counteract unemployment must be redirected to explain to those in employment the necessity for paying taxes in order to supply the internal finance for other jobs particularly the jobs in connection with the improvement of our infrastructure. I commend the support of the unions. Senator Hyland mentioned in his introduction that Liberty, the trade union magazine, says in its leading article, “an Irish gift means more.”

I am glad that the campaign is being intensified up to Christmas but we must think of the post Christmas period. This is a low period in Irish production and in sales to the retail outlets. I would like to see the campaign being intensified even more. We have an ideal opportunity to work up towards a campaign on our national holiday, St. Patrick's Day.

I commend the Irish Goods Council for issuing posters for distribution not only to retail outlets but even to the factories. That is an excellent idea, but there should have been better planning. They could have encouraged industry to put some publicity into the pay packets coming up to Christmas. Like Senator Hussey, I would like to see more appeal to youth and also to the housewives. It would be useful if RTE employed youthful broadcasters like Pat Kenny for the youthful section and more established broadcasters like Frankie Byrne and Valerie McGovern to appeal to the housewives who are the people who buy, according to Senator Hussey, the majority of the consumer products.

As advocated three years ago, a supplemental campaign is needed to encourage people to work Irish and some way must be found in which to explain to everyone the necessity for increasing one's efforts at all levels in response to the additional awards which are being granted under successive pay agreements. I listened in this House to appeals for additional expenditure for services, and more recently, a higher contribution to the Third World but the money must be found somewhere. The ordinary PAYE worker or the ordinary man in the street does not understand that he has a responsibility to contribute his part to the financing of the community affairs, and to pay for the increased standard of living which he or she enjoys through our improved welfare system. I would like to see on the tax demand something like what we used to have on the old rates demand, a breakdown of where the £ is spent. This was very useful when one was paying one's rates as one realised it was contributing to many social services. This would be very useful on the tax demand. an extension of the "Buy Irish" campaign could embody this responsibility and would serve a dual purpose in helping us to increase the rate of growth of our gross national product and at the same time bring a fuller realisation to everyone in his daily life and daily work, that additional monetary awards involve a commitment to contribute to the betterment of the community as well. Indeed this sort of campaign could help to solve our rampant absenteeism which was referred to by Senator Brennan on the Appropriation Bill. It could be explained to people who absent themselves from work for other than medical reasons that they are putting themselves in the same category as the TV spongers, that they are robbing their fellow workers of the opportunity to increase productivity to help the future prosperity of the company and the potential for increased employment.

It is no longer necessary for the Irish Goods Council to ask for complaints from Irish consumers as we now have a consumer affairs director. That has the assumption that Irish goods need complaints. That is unfair, because no one is asking for complaints about imported products. It implies that the Irish goods that do not bear the guaranteed Irish symbol are not as good as imported products. Many of them are. I have mentioned the disadvantages that certain Irish manufacturers suffer in that VAT does not have to be paid on imported products until the point of sale in this country, while Irish manufacturers have to charge VAT on invoices to the resale and wholesale trades in advance of sales to consumers. I mention this again because there is a disturbing movement now to import container loads of goods direct to the retailer, which is cutting out the distributive trade so that we are even losing out the added value in the jobs of those who are earning their living in the distributive trade.

Senator Hyland referred to his concern about the multinationals. We welcome the multinationals but we have to ensure that things are done in a fair manner. In the past we had here British manufacturters opting out of manufacturing products in this country although, over a year ago, they exploited the guaranteed Irish campaign. I would now ask the Irish Goods Council to ensure that neither the advertising nor the products still contain the G on their packets. I have seen evidence of this and it is very unfair. Furthermore, the Irish Goods Council and Irish manufacturers in general have to contend with the glamorous, expensive advertising which is produced in Britain for a much larger population and is just slotted into Irish television and the Irish press here. That is why I have repeatedly asked for an overlay on the television advertising or in press advertising, to indicate the country of origin of goods advertised. It is only fair that the consumer, apart from protecting the Irish goods, should know where the product is made. This does not go against the principles of fair trade in the Treaty of Rome.

Senator Hussey mentioned the breakdown in the expenditure of housewives on various goods but I would like to see a breakdown of where a pound spent on Irish products goes and where a pound spent on imported products goes. I support many Senators who have mentioned that there could be further intensifying of efforts both in relation to the public service, the civil service and the foreign service, because there are also areas here where Irish goods could have been bought. Irish goods are available in countries abroad but they have not been bought by the foreign service. The Irish Goods Council should intensify their efforts in pressurising the various Ministers to ensure that the Irish goods are bought, where they are available. A lot of the problem is due to pure thoughtlessness. We have to overcome this thoughtlessness. We need a new dedication and patriotism in 1981. We need the support of the Irish Goods Council so that the money that is granted to them can be used to the best advantage.

Mr. Jago

Several Senators have spoken on the subject of "Buy Irish" and everybody is in complete agreement that the Irish Goods Council should get support. But a lot of the benefit of this discussion will not be proved unless it goes out from here that the Seanad has agreed on this. Because of the publicity already given to Irish goods several people have every intention of trying to buy Irish, but practically, can they actually do what they want to do? In a supermarket, one knows the butter is Irish, the bread is Irish, and the sugar is Irish, but for instance in a supermarket I could not find a single soap or detergent with a G on it. I do not know if any Irish soaps or Irish detergents are made. The same could happen in several different categories of products. A person genuinely trying to buy Irish wants to know what is Irish and what is not. We are spending big money on this, so it would be quite simple to publish a small brochure of the names of all the Irish manufacturers who are registered with the Irish Goods Council and the products that they make and send it to each household. One would get a more practical application of buying Irish when one knows what is Irish and what is not Irish.

Mrs. Cassidy

I have listened to this debate with a sense of déja vu because it is a comparatively short time since we had a similar debate in the Seanad. The urgency of the terms of this motion suggest that the “Buy Irish” campaign has failed to make any substantial impact on the Irish consumer. It seems that the reason why this guaranteed Irish campaign has failed to bite is that very little attention has been paid to ordinary everyday goods. It is easy enough to sell custom-built high quality Irish furniture or Irish glass or Irish clothes. They have a certain market. They will be bought certainly by people who specifically buy Irish. All one wants is the money. But let us look at some everyday things, things that we need and use but that we do not think about, for example, household linen. If one went to buy sheets five years ago, and sheets are a very essential part of a family budget, the only ones on the market were a well known Irish brand. They were of excellent quality, a household name and they were guaranteed to last from three to seven years and I can assure Senators that they did last seven years. Today I went to buy sheets. I went into three shops and I was offered a very wide variety of beautifully designed sheets. Indeed, the sheets were designed by a very well known fashion designer and they were offered at a very competitive price but they were all British made. There was not an Irish sheet to be seen on the shelf. That is not to say that if I want to buy Irish sheets I cannot do so. I live in a small town. I can go to my local draper and say I want Irish sheets made by a particular marker and they will be got for me, specially ordered from a wholesaler, but I cannot get them off the shelves.

The same thing can be said about children's footwear. Five years ago when one went to buy children's shoes there were at least three popular Irish brands on the market. Today two of them have vanished. One can get the remaining brand only if one goes to a special shop. That is true for most of the items that we wear. Our suits are woven from British cloth, our shirts come from Italy, as does our knitwear and shoes. Summer frocks and beach wear come from France. I am not talking about expensive clothes. I am talking about off-the-peg clothes and I think that it is fair to say that you will not get Irish clothes, footwear or knitwear off-the-peg in the ordinary store.

I do not know which toys are on offer because I am no longer in the Santa Claus business, but looking at the television advertisements I think the same story could be said for most of the toys advertised. Very few of them are Irish made. Since entering the Common Market we have lost our competitiveness in everyday ordinary goods. What is the point, after all, in being able to build and sell a custom-made kitchen at a competitive price, but for a very limited market, if we cannot manufacture the pots, the pans and the tea towels to go into it? What is the point, as Senator Hyland said, in spending thousands of pounds exploring new markets abroad, when we cannot cater for the ordinary household goods at home?

I suggest to the Irish Goods Council that it turns its expertise and talent to solving this. I do not know if the problem can be solved. It has to be looked at in the context of our membership of the Common Market. It should turn its talent and expertise at least to looking for a solution.

In the last debate on this subject I expressed the view that it is of little use appealing to the housewife's sense of patrioitism when she is, of necessity, motivated by her need for thrift. As Senator Hussey said, the housewife is the basic consumer. She spends the most money, she has control of the family eats. budget. She decides what the family eats. She decides where they will go on holiday. She makes most of the decisions concerning spending in the household.

To underline that point, we are all aware of the recent battle between the multinationals to gain control of the Irish food market. We are aware that supermarkets are laid out in a way to part the consumer — the housewife — from her money, with very little regard for either her needs or her budget. As sombody who shops in a small family grocers, I am always fascinated when I go into a supermarket because I never know what I am going to come out with. It is usually not what I intended to buy when I went in. The problem of restoring competitiveness should be looked at by the Irish Goods Council.

The proposer of the motion also spoke about the problems of the farming community who grow vegetables. If farmers can grow good quality vegetables and get them to the shelves of supermarkets and shops in any sort of fresh condition, they will find a ready market for them. There are problems in this area too. The farmer has problems mainly with marketing his goods and Senators will be aware, if they have read a report that was circulated to Members of the Oireachtas, of the difficulties that the unhygenic and old fashioned condition of the Dublin fruit and vegetable market pose for disposing of vegetables quickly and efficiently.

The Irish Goods Council should suggest to farmers that those who grow vegetables should form some sort of co-operative system to ensure that the vegetables get to the shelves in a saleable condition. It always surprises me to see fruit and vegetables coming from as far abroad as Israel and Italy in splendid condition, while our own home made goods are wilting and unbought on the shelves.

Mr. E. Ryan

I add my voice to those who have supported this motion. Everybody who has spoken realises the importance of this campaign. Some people may think that this is not a very important matter, that buying Irish or being asked to buy Irish is a pious gesture which shows good intentions, but in the overall economic situation is not really of very much importance. It could be of fundamental importance to our economic climate and to our economic position. The balance of payments deficit is a matter of grave concern and something which we are doing everything possible to deal with. Our balance of payments affects our credit internationally, affects our ability to pay for the goods which we really need and which we have to buy from abroad. If it gets out of control, it will affect our influence and our credibility as a nation.

There are two main ways in which the balance of payments can be improved. It can be improved by exporting more or importing less and importing less is what this campaign is designed to achieve. We are making great efforts at the moment through CTT, through our various firms and factories which are exporting goods successfully. We are making great efforts in that way to improve our balance of payments. We are, to a very considerable extent, exporting successfully. We are a very exposed nation. We have to export approximately half the goods we produce in order to survive, so exports are a very important matter, more important than in any other country in the world.

The matter which we are dealing with under this campaign is the question of importing less — of buying our own goods. That can be just as important as increasing our exports. In a way it can be far more important because, whereas exporting primarily means trying to improve our balance of payments, buying Irish goods has a very important effect in various other ways. By buying Irish goods we ensure the survival of Irish factories. Survival is a word which for many factories at the present time is the key word. It puts money into the pockets of Irish workers. It helps to pay for the ESB and various other services that are produced and it helps our infrastructure. It enables these factories to buy Irish raw materials, and by buying raw materials at home there is a spin-off effect. It helps other industries to survive and these, in turn, give further employment.

The importance of buying Irish cannot be over-emphasised. Any person who thinks about it, who goes into the figures, who really understands the importance of the campaign, could not be other than an enthusiast, a preacher, and a person who puts his preaching into practice by ensuring that he buys Irish goods and influences others to do likewise. It should be emphasised that we are not talking about small figures. We are talking about very big figures, if the campaign is reasonably successful. If every income earner spent an extra £6 a week on Irish goods, it would have a very dramatic effect on the balance of payments deficit, which is estimated to be in the region of £600 million. It would approximately halve our deficit. This is not an unrealisable figure for people whose average income is something in the region of £4,000 per annum.

Buying Irish is mainly a matter for the individual shopper, who should ask for and insist wherever possible on getting Irish goods. We have all come up against problems in that regard. Senator Cassidy has mentioned problems she has come up against. I recently found it virtually impossible to get men's socks. I was told by a shopkeeper in Dublin, a person who is well disposed to stocking Irish goods, that it is impossible to get Irish made men's socks. It is inconceivable that that should be the case, but that is what I was told. It is not only a matter for the person buying goods, it is a matter also for the shopkeeper to ensure that there are Irish goods in his shop. It is a matter for the shop assistants. They, through their unions, should be aware, and are being made aware, of how important it is for them to ensure that people who want to buy Irish goods should be able to get them. Shop assistants should certainly, if not push Irish goods, at least make sure they are given equal treatment and that they are available to anybody who wants to buy them. Irish goods will not be bought unless they are well made, of good quality and are reasonably priced. That is a matter for the individual firm of manufacturers. That is fundamental, but what is not so fundamental and what is perhaps not given proper attention by some firms who make goods of reasonable quality and who have a competitive price, is that many of them are not so conscious of the need for proper advertising and proper promotion. They should ensure that these goods are competitive, are of good quality and that they will be brought to the notice of the public and that they will be bought.

In the modern world of advertising and promotion it is essential that this is done. It is not enough to make good quality and competitive goods. The danger is that people will feel that the campaign is not achieving as much as was hoped for and that it will lose steam. If the campaign is persevered with, month in month out, gradually it will be highly successful and the effect will be of the order of what I mentioned earlier on in my speech, which would be a very significant contribution to our balance of payments problem.

Mr. Kiely

I congratulate Senator Liam Hyland and Senator Noel Mulcahy for introducing this motion, which gives us an opportunity to speak on this important matter. I also welcome Deputy Gallagher, Minister of State at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism. I know from his associations with organisations committed to the "Buy Irish" campaign that he also welcomes this motion. I wish him well in his new assignment.

I also congratulate the Irish Goods Council and Vivion Murray for the great efforts they are making to promote the sale of Irish goods. It is very important that we promote this in every possible way, because it creates opportunities for employment which are badly needed. We should be energetic in promoting the sale of Irish goods. We must have confidence in our own industry and ask the shopkeeper for Irish goods. If they have not got them, we should ask why. We should ensure that everything we buy is Irish made. Last week I bought a Christmas card and it was printed in England. It is a small thing but it must be taken into account. People buying Christmas cards should buy Irish ones and there are Christmas cards printed in Ireland.

When services are provided for the public by State-sponsored bodies they should ensure that whatever commodities they sell are Irish made. I am very much concerned about sports gear. I am attached to an association that is committed to the wearing of Irish sports gear and it surprises me that one sports firm goes out of its way to promote sports gear that is foreign made. I do not like to mention the name of the firm. But in this respect television advertising seems to go out of its way to ensure that the brand name is prominently shown.

Television could play a big part in the promotion of Irish made goods. Television is not used in promoting the sale of Irish goods. Television has a big influence. We can see that from the programme, "Dallas" and the character J.R. In a survey conducted by a school in County Cork in politics, when one child was asked who the Taoiseach was he said J.R. That gives an idea of the influence television has in this country, and especially how it is being used to bring in customs which are completely alien. Television should have programmes on how important it is to the community to buy Irish goods. They should do this free of charge, because they are paying big fees for programmes such as "Dallas".

I wholeheartedly support the motion and urge the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism to use television to promote the "Buy Irish" campaign.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Might I just say that the mover of the motion is entitled to be called upon at 8.15 p.m.

Mr. Mulcahy

I am happy to take only five minutes if the Minister needs the time.

Minister of State at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism (Mr. D. Gallagher)

I thank the Senators who put down this motion for discussion and also the Senators who took part in the debate. It is certainly very encouraging for us and it must be very encouraging for the Irish Goods Council to find the degree of support that their efforts are having. The timing of the motion was very appropriate, particularly in the Christmat season when people spend a good deal of money. The debate has been very logical and encouraging. There has been criticism in some areas but constructive criticism. I intend to deal as briefly as possible with some of the points raised by the speakers.

Senator Hyland referred to the role played by some semi-State bodies in promotion of Irish products. These bodies have a very important role to play and this has been recognised by both the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Tourism and my predecessor, Deputy Burke. Both continually exhorted the semi-State bodies and other agencies to examine their purchasing role and to ensure whenever possible that Irish products are purchased. It was stressed to these bodies that they should set an example to private consumers.

Reference was also made to the role played by the multinationals. The activities in the market place of these companies involved in the supply and distribution of goods are like those of any other enterprise—they are subject to whatever statutory controls operate in relation to those goods. The operation of such regulations are monitored and there will be no hesitation in dealing with any persons who are reported as contravening them. Should any abuses arise which cannot be adequately dealt with within the existing regulations, then whatever action is called for to remedy the situation will be taken.

I remind the Members of the Seanad that the firm so lavishly praised by Senator Dowling could be considered a multinational firm. This multinational is also involved in exporting and, while others may not fully stock Irish products, some purchase a large amount of Irish produce to sell in their outlets outside the country. I am sure that the Irish Goods Council will continue to ensure that the shelf space for Irish goods in firms operating in Ireland will be improved.

Senator Hyland and others also referred to the role played by the trade union movement. I feel that if the council were questioned on this point they would indicate that the trade union movement actively support the campaign. Union headquarters staff and local branches are actively exhorting their members to support Irish products to save the jobs of fellow workers and are taking part in promotion campaigns. Union executives, by their membership of local trades councils around the country are almost vociferous in their support. Union members canvass stores and shops to encourage them to stock Irish products and we are reasonably satisfied with the response received. I am not saying that the job is perfect. If it was we would not be debating this motion at present, but, given the right attitude, more support from rank and file members will be forthcoming in the future.

Senator Harney praised the Guaranteed Irish scheme. The Guaranteed Irish scheme recognises that there would be no significant support for a campaign which simply appealed to the public to buy Irish for its own sake or for nationalistic motives. The idea behind the Guaranteed Irish symbol, initially, was that it was intended to act as a rough imdicator of the proportion of Irish goods on display in individual shops and perhaps force retailers into a position whereby they would stock a good proportion of Irish goods to meet any demand generated by the promotion of the Guaranteed Irish symbol. The acceptance of the Guaranteed Irish symbol as a selling point by Irish manufacturers is indicated by the growth in the number of participants and by the increased usage of point of sale material.

In January 1976 the number of companies enrolled in the scheme was under 200. This figure has to date increased to almost 1,000, involving approximately 90 per cent of all manufacturing companies and representing 10,000 different products. The Guaranteed Irish advertising promotion and publicity programmes maintained an extremely high profile and as a result the symbol has become the brand identifier for Irish goods. The guarantee element of the sumbol has had increased emphasis and the assurance of after sale satisfaction has considerable potential for influencing buying decisions. In addition manufacturers are exhorted to ensure that maximum use is made of the symbol in their advertising and merchandising material and on the product itself.

In the Guaranteed Irish scheme the emphasis is on competitive merit and the ability to offer the consumer value for money. The consumer should not buy an Irish product just because it is Irish. The Irish Goods Council will continue to market the symbol aggressively to maintain and generate further the confidence which has evolved around the symbol over the years. To expand the Guaranteed Irish scheme a step further the Irish Goods Council introduced a Guaranteed Irish stockist scheme under which shops and larger stores would, because of the policy commitment to stock, display and sell a reasonable proportion of Irish goods, be nominated as Guaranteed Irish stockists. This scheme, which was initially introduced in Dublin, Cork and Limerick, is to be extended to other large areas of the population.

Senator Harney adverted to the important role played by the schools and other community organisations. The council are very conscious of the benefits which could accrue from their involvement. Lectures in schools have taken place. In addition there have been school essays, posters and project competitions organised from time to time. In various parts of the country the school children themselves have organised local promotional campaigns under the guidance of the council. The council also acts as a catalyst for organising and directing voluntary efforts in the promotion of Irish goods. The co-operation of the women's organisations and other community groups has been forthcoming on a regular basis. Junior Chamber Ireland actively assist in these promotional activities.

In relation to the complaints concerning the type of preserves in use on CIE trains, the board have confirmed from the supplier, Chivers & Sons Ltd., Coolock, that the Hartley portion packs are packed in Coolock. The lidding and the tubs are imported in raw material form and moulded into shapes in their plant. The firm are also negotiating with an Irish company for the supply of the PVC used as a tray for holding the portion packages together.

With regard to the ingredients, which include strawberries, raspberries and blackcurrants, the firm take the maximum amount of fruit available locally before seeking supply elsewhere. The Seanad will appreciate that quite a large amount of ingredients, for instance, apricots, oranges and so on, have to be imported. It has been brought to my attention also that Irish Biscuits have agreed to meet CIE's requirements of biscuits in small catering packs. CIE are placing an immediate order with this firm.

The figures for competing food imports quoted by Senator Governey are a matter of concern to the Government. For this reason a number of measures were taken under the auspices of the working party on imports substitution to endeavour to stem the tide of these imports. The chief executive of the Irish Goods Council chaired a meeting last September between the Irish Wholesale Retail Food Trade which includes multinationals. This group agreed for a six-month period to initiate no new importation of primary food lines, to enter into discussions with Irish manufacturers with a view to substitution of lines currently imported; where imported food products are sold by Irish manufacturers, to procure those products from the manufacturer rather than through external resources and to undertake special steps to ensure that the Irish-made products are highlighted on their shop shelves.

Last week I chaired a further meeting consisting of the food promotional bodies in the food sector, CBF, BIM, NDC, PBC and the IGC. I pointed to the growing rate of competing food imports and urged this group to redouble their efforts in the promotion of the sale of Irish products. I also urged the various bodies to co-operate more closely in order to achieve maximum penetration of Irish foodstuffs into the shops and supermarkets at home.

In relation to new products and new processes the IDA have a scheme whereby firms can receive 50 per cent grants towards salaries, materials and consultancy costs of developing food products. The IDA are making a renewed approach to interested firms to take up these attractive grants.

Senator Murphy supplied interesting background information on programmes of the past. While the expected results or aims of these programmes were similar I am sure he will agree that the present approach is totally different. As a trading nation, Ireland is in favour of freedom of trade and would propose counteraction only where there is unfair competition and where there is a serious threat to Irish industries, or where the adverse balance of trade would be intolerable. The strength of our economy is based on the fact that we export our products successfully to over one hundred markets throughout the world. For this reason countries must be given reasonable access to the Irish market.

Many Irish consumers tend to have a negative opinion of Irish goods, regarding them as relatively more expensive, and often of poorer quality than their imported rivals. This view was aided by the emotive and nationalistic appeal to "buy Irish" in the past. We are now adopting a totally different approach. Public information programmes, advertising, publicity and promotional activities were designed to give the consumer practical reasons for purchasing Irish products. The emphasis is on the competitive merit of Irish-made items, high standards, good workmanship, value for money and overall consumer satisfaction. It is recognised that Irish goods must be competitive, sell on merit and that retailers have the responsibility to give consumers an opportunity to select Irish products. Consumers should demand that they be given an opportunity to choose between imports and home products. Very often this choice is denied by the refusal of the retailers to provide a fair and reasonable share of shelf space and to effectively present and promote Irish products. In the course of the debate we heard many instances and examples from Senators in relation to their experiences in these matters.

Senator Dowling covered many aspects in his interesting contribution to this debate. I have already covered some of these items. However I should like to refer to the other areas mentioned, for instance, the manufacturers and the retailers. There would be a far less significant, competing imports problem if the spirit and the initiative of our export drive existed in the home market. The role of the council in relation to manufacturers has been, and will continue to be, to identify market opportunity and communicate that opportunity to the manufacturers with follow-up promotional assistance. Co-operative marketing programmes, on a sectoral basis, on sales, merchandising promotions and other marketing areas have been established and the council have provided an inventory of marketing skills and training facilities for Irish industry and have assisted manufacturers in improving their marketing management.

The council's liaison with other bodies, for instance, the Industrial Development Authority and the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards, is maintained in order to assist Irish manufacturers. The seller or retailer has a key role to play in any programme as the consumers are unable to purchase Irish goods if they are not stocked in the outlets. The effective liaison already established with the retail trade has been further developed and aimed at increasing the demands for Irish products. Communication between retailers and manufacturers has been improved, an area of weakness in the past. A strong "sell Irish" emphasis has been incorporated in the overall "Guaranteed Irish" scheme to encourage retailers to give the consumer the opportunity to select Irish goods. A continual promotional programme and publicity activities were a feature of the programme. These included promotions in single stores, with groups of multiples, in streets, in shopping centres, in towns and districts, involving special display and merchandising material for point-of-sale publicity. The promotions included sectoral marketing with special attention given to footwear, clothing textiles, carpets, furniture and food outlets. Retailers, where promotions have taken place, have expressed a willingness for further promotions.

I am also in agreement with Senator Dowling when he indicated that we can only keep abreast by updating ourselves on the matter of modern technology. The role played by the Government, through the IDA and other agencies, has indicated that new technology and the manufacture of the new technology equipment are certainly receiving the attention they deserve. An estimated 11,000 people are already employed in the electronics industry in Ireland and more than £350 million has been committed to date by overseas electronic companies in fixed asset investment.

Senator Connaughton mentioned the use of incentive schemes, the end product of which would be increased sales of Irish goods. Incentive schemes have been instigated in a number of areas, particularly in junior chamber promotions. The extension of local incentive schemes to involve most of the staff of particular establishments and one broad scheme for retailers is being considered by the Irish Goods Council at present.

Senator Hussey mentioned the importance of consumers and indicated that, out of every £100 spent, women are responsible for £80. The programme envisaged that all citizens would be fully informed and they understand the role they can play in order that full advantage can be gained and the objectives met. The hidden benefits of supporting Irish products at the point of purchase — jobs, living standards, economic progress — were also stressed so that they would be taken into consideration when the choice was being made. A comprehensive planned series of consumer promotions, competitions and other shopping incentives were undertaken which also resulted in further media publicity.

I should make one point in relation to a remark by Senator Hussey in regard to shopping at Christmas. She more or less inferred that the Irish Goods Council had lost out on their promotions during this period. I have here an outline of some of the extra work which the Irish Goods Council put into the promotions effort in order to improve sales over Christmas. There was an intensive publicity campaign on television and radio, in daily and provincial papers and through outdoor poster sites. Some 22,000 posters were distributed to schools, offices, factories and shops. There was the distribution also of over 400,000 leaflets for insertion in pay-packets. This matter was referred to by Senator Lambert also. We had the mailing of over 10,000 retail outlets urging prominent display of Irish-made goods. There was the engagement of two street theatre groups to promote Irish-made goods in the main shopping precincts of principal cities and towns. There were also special Christmas shopping promotions in Cork and Limerick in association with local councils and trade unions. There were special publicity features in the major trade union publications, for instance, Liberty and The Distributive Worker. Senator Lambert made reference to this also. We can see from that that the Irish Goods Council were aware of the importance of putting on a special effort for the Christmas period. Let us hope that, at the end of the day, we will see the desired result.

Then there is the question of what is being done about food, a question raised by Senator Hussey also. In this sector the Government propose to continue to monitor packaged goods which could deceive the consumer concerning the country of origin. The Department of Health are ensuring that imported products are subject to the same rigid health hygiene regulations as those applying to Irish goods manufacturers. The requirement of the Examiner of Restrictive Practices that notification to him by importers of the terms and conditions on which goods are being imported or purchased will be vigorously enforced. The chief executive of the Irish Goods Council acted as chairman of a meeting of representatives of wholesale and retail distributive trades of manufacturers to consider the problem caused by the high incidence of food imports. If I have time later I may give further details of the outcome of that meeting.

Senator Cassidy mentioned the difficulty of getting Irish goods in the ordinary store. I have experienced this also. These are matters we are examining. For instance, where I do my shopping, I want to buy a particular brand of Irish-made shoe, made in my own constituency. The situation obtaining is that that particular company deal with one merchant in that town, which in turn means that there are a number of other merchants or distributors in the town not in a position to sell that product because the manufacturer will not supply them. These are some of the matters we are having examined at present. Let us hope we will find some solution rendering the situation more satisfactory. Senator Cassidy also raised the question of the importation of vegetables, a very pertinent one. This is another matter we are examining at present.

Senator Hussey made some remarks regarding the role being played by women. We all realise the importance of this. Certainly we shall bring her comments to the notice of the Irish Goods Council. If we feel that this aspect has been neglected then they will have something on which to work to improve that situation.

Another point raised by Senator Lambert was VAT on imports at point of sale. We have also been considering this matter quite recently. It is being considered by the working party on import substitution. Senator Lambert complained about the "Guaranteed Irish" symbol on imports. If he is in a position to give some positive information on this matter we shall be glad to have it investigated.

One important matter in relation to the whole campaign was that suggested by Senator Ryan regarding the importance of our balance of payments position. In this respect I should say that the "Buy Irish" campaign has been broadened and directed in a way to ensure that we are not just buying Irish for the sake of buying an article produced at home. Emphasis is being placed on the importance of matters like our balance of payments, jobs creation and other matters of vital importance to our economy generally.

Senator Kiely raised the question of sportswear. There was also the question of Christmas cards. They are all matters of importance. We all have a definite obligation to ensure that we do our best to buy the Irish article when it is available at the right price.

I should like to say that we all appreciate and are grateful to all the organisations, all the groups, who have worked so hard, who have played such an important role in ensuring that this important work is continued on for the benefit of our economy.

An Cathaoirleach

There are now 15 minutes left for the debate. Would Senator Mulcahy who moved the motion please indicate what he intends to do?

Mr. Mulcahy

The Minister can continue as far as I am concerned until 8.25, which will give me five minutes.

Mr. D. Gallagher

Arís ba mhaith liom mo bhuiochas a ghlacadh le gach duine a ghlac páirt san diospóireacht seo. Tá mé cinnte, de bharr na cainte a rinneadh ar feadh an dá oiche a bhiomar anseo, go bhfuilimid ag griosadh daoine le páirt nios tábhachtai a ghlacadh san obair seo agus tá súil le Dia agam go bhfaighimid uilig an tairbhe a bhfuilimid ag súil leis ag teacht as na hiarrachtaí atá ar siúl ag gach duine.

Professor Hillery

I wish to make a few brief points before Senator Mulcahy replies. With regard to company tax arrangements, with effect from 1 January 1981, there will be a 10 per cent company tax rate for manufacturing industry. This will necessitate a review by companies——

An Cathaoirleach

I do not want to interrupt the Senator but the Chair wishes to know, has Senator Mulcahy yielded some of his time to you because we have only——

Mr. Mulcahy

Yes.

Professor Hillery

This will necessitate a review by companies to think Irish and to sell on the home market because the lower tax advantage will clearly favour selling on the home market. A further point I would like to make is the important role played by teachers in educating children to think in terms of purchasing Irish. My two eldest boys are attending the local national school and are constantly reminding my wife and me, if we are purchasing, that we should buy Irish. In this way their teachers are inculcating a practical patriotism on young, impressionable children. Given the composition of our population with 1.2 million children under the age of 16 years, the relationship between buying Irish and securing jobs for these young people in their own country is evident.

Today in the Dáil the Taoiseach announced the Government's intention to publish an investment plan for the economy in the New Year. This plan is being designed to create many more jobs in the economy. Investment of this nature involves the construction of schools, roads, factories and so forth. In turn, this kind of development involves the purchase of materials like concrete, furniture, woodwork, electrical goods and a host of other items. The question I wish to raise is who in fact will make the purchasing decisions? Clearly, architects, engineers and purchasing officers generally play a key role in this respect. When millions are being spent on this type of development I suggest that architects, engineers and other relevant people have a clear responsibility, whenever possible, to ensure that Irish goods and materials are purchased.

In conclusion, I wish to commend the Irish Goods Council for the excellent work they are doing and would urge that they continue to get adequate resources to promote the sale of Irish goods.

Mr. Mulcahy

The House will notice that I am being very co-operative this evening. On behalf of Senator Hyland and myself I should like to acknowledge all of the contributions made in — what I can see from the portion of the debate I have been here to take part in — an excellent debate. I should like also on his behalf and my own to thank the Minister for his participation and his detailed response to all the matters that he heard raised in the House. It was quite clear that he went to some trouble to follow up the questions raised and to come back with answers. We would like very much to express our appreciation to him and to his Department for doing so.

There is no doubt that the "Buy Irish" campaign is the fundamental and most important plank in our efforts to manage our economy in the best possible way. We have had a debate already today on the Appropriation Bill when we spoke about the difficulty of managing this bucking horse of an economy, a small, open economy in which a very large percentage of our output has to be exported. Additionally, a large percentage of what we consume at home has to be imported.

As Senators have said, it means that we cannot adopt a narrow approach. The "buy Irish only" approach is not going to make sense in a context that we expect purchasers in other countries to buy our products. We are endeavouring to find a balance. As Senator Ryan put it when he spoke about the balance of payments running at approximately £600 million, a small shift in the purchasing behaviour of the ordinary consumer could make all the difference. The last occasion we debated this subject we talked about the question of a few percentage points shift in consumer behaviour and the effect it would have on jobs. That point still remains. I believe that the Irish Goods Council are doing a tremendous job. Everybody has congratulated them already and it is not necessary to say any more about that. I believe it usually takes much longer than we realise to make an impact of the kind we are trying to make. The "Guaranteed Irish" symbol is getting acceptance. I believe that it will take a few more years to really bite. I can see this evidence all round me. I was in Tanzania last week and it was reassuring to see Irish products bearing the "Guaranteed Irish" symbol. This brings it home to one that if those countries closed their doors to Irish products we would not reach our export targets. Therefore, we must be reasonable.

My feeling about this is that it is a matter of a national awareness of Irish products. I would be quite happy to see an Irish buyer, an Irish consumer, making a decision based on the products presented to him or her as long as he or she was aware that an Irish product was there as an alternative, that there was an Irish product in the mix. There is some national inferiority complex that still hangs around us whereby the shop assistant almost does not want to put forward the Irish product. Or, if one asks for the Irish product the assistant will hesitatingly make some excuses about the quality perhaps not being that good, that they are hard to get, or they do not have the range. There is always some excuse.

We must try to achieve that first level of awareness in consumers, that at least they should entertain the thought of buying the Irish product and look for it. If in the long run the consumers take the decision not to buy, that is their privilege. This is the Christmas season. It is interesting to note that some products we thought in the past could not be produced in Ireland, some of the most sophisticated modern entertainment games based on very sophisticated electronics technology, are produced in Ireland and give employment in Waterford to some 200 or 300 people. I have got a letter here to the effect that the little industries we got going in Seán MacDermott Street, the inner city of Dublin, are now producing some beautiful statues cast in bronze, old Irish figurines. That industry was started with the help of Department of Education youth employment grants. It now stands on its own. I think it is a matter of national awareness and pride in our product, not national narrow-mindedness in a sense of "buy Irish". We should associate that with the growing pride that we are beginning to have in the quality of our goods, the quality of our whiskey, our stout, our clothes, and our electronics industry, already mentioned. I would make one recommendation — I do no know whether it was raised in the House — that the new Quality Control Association work in co-operation with the "Guaranteed Irish" scheme.

An Cathaoirleach

Tá dhá noiméad fágtha.

Mr. Mulcahy

Tá tú ag tabhairt an leide dom, a Chathaoirligh, agus críochnóidh mé anois i nGaeilge mar a dhein an tAire. Táimid ar an mbóthar. Tá an symbol seo "Guaranteed Irish" glactha sa tír. Tá an t-eagrú déanta — míle comhlachtaí tagtha isteach ins an scéim, deich míle earraí ins an scéim. Is dóigh liom, i leith an airgid atá curtha ar leathaobh i gcóir an job seo ag an Rialtas gur maith an tairgead é ó thaobh cur ar aghaidh na scéime seo. Ba mhaith liom, mar chríoch, mo bhuíochas a ghabháil le gach Seanadóir a thóg páirt, ón dá thaobh den Teach, ins an díospóireacht seo agus don Aire a tháinig agus a thug na figiúri suimiúla a thug sé dúinn anocht.

Question put and agreed to.