Could the Minister tell us how much Aer Lingus or Aer Rianta paid to IATA to be members of IATA and how many Irish people are employed by IATA?
Air Companies (Amendment) Bill, 1983 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
I do not have the information at hand but I can let the Senator have it in the next few days.
In relation to the membership of IATA is the Minister satisfied that membership of IATA is good for the industry at present? To what extent does he feel that the industry might suffer if we were not members of IATA?
I consider it very important that we are members of IATA. I see IATA as a very valuable international organisation and a very useful forum to help get the transatlantic services back into some sort of regulation. I think it was the de-regulation outside of IATA that has caused so many problems. I value the membership of IATA and I think it is important to the country.
In his introduction to the Bill the Minister mentioned the demise of various well-known airlines. Some of these were members of IATA and some of them were not members of IATA. The Minister mentioned airlines such as Lakers and Braniff, then he brought in PanAm. Laker were obviously not a member of IATA, Braniff were not and PanAm are. What benefit has it been to PanAm to be in IATA? It would appear to me that IATA are a cartel. By being in IATA we are members of a cartel who are setting prices which have no relationship to the commercial enterprise in which Aer Lingus and the other members of IATA are involved.
This section of the Bill does not deal with IATA and it certainly does not deal with PanAm. I am not briefed, nor could I be, on the internal finances of PanAm. In my reference on the Second Stage I mentioned PanAm in passing as a major world airline which have been in very great difficulty. In relation to IATA, I can only say that I consider it a most useful and important organisation for us to belong to.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 3 agreed to.
SECTION 4.
Question proposed: "That section 4 stand part of the Bill."
Either I am confused or the Minister is confused. Is he talking about passengers from Shannon to Dublin? I am talking about the North Atlantic passengers coming in to this country and going out. My information, and I think Senator Howard's information, is that it is two to one. Is the Minister going to find out for me that it is one to one? I remember speaking at length on a Bill like this a few years ago in the House and the number of passengers has not changed. Is the Minister talking about Dublin-Shannon flights, up and down, while I am talking about the North Atlantic persons coming in and landing at Shannon because the ratio of passengers coming in is two to one? Is the Minister telling me that it is one to one?
I am saying that the current Aer Lingus transatlantic traffic pattern is precisely 49 per cent of the passengers originating or terminating at Dublin and 51 per cent at Shannon. I have not got the figures for all airlines, but I will ascertain them and communicate them to Senator Honan and Senator Howard.
On a follow up to that question, is there at present within Aer Lingus a deliberate over-booking situation whereby from the States they are offering very cheap four day rates? Each week people are flying into Shannon on package deals from the States. Aer Lingus here are also selling return tickets to the States using the same planes and each weekend in Shannon they are having to fly people from Shannon to London and from London to New York, or wherever. The Minister may not be aware of this total over-booking situation. Maybe this is where this one for one goes totally out. I am talking about Aer Lingus package deals into Shannon. At Shannon airport on Saturday last there were about 54 people left who had booked seats from Ireland to the States and back but who could not get on the planes because of the over-booking that is being done.
That is news to me but I will check it. I will have to communicate with the Senator on the results of my queries, and I will do that as soon as I can.
And on the IATA matter, too.
Yes.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 5 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without recommendation, received for final consideration and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.