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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Jul 1984

Vol. 104 No. 10

Developments in the EEC: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann takes note of developments in the EEC during 1983.
— (Senator Dooge.)

It seems a long time since the last time we had this debate and it is not easy to pick up the threads. It is particularly difficult to avoid repetition. Senator Lanigan has been consistently asking for a debate on this very important topic and the subject threatened to surface from time to time, but was pushed out by other important business. It is a very important subject, and one or two days should be set aside specially for a debate on the subject at the appropriate time.

I made the point before that the media over a considerable time portrayed Ireland as Caitlín Ní hUallacháin with the begging bowl — indeed, a bottomless begging bowl. There were other references to a "Gimme" situation which I feel were unfair. The UK and Greece have renegotiated their entry terms and the UK have gone through a very stiff negotiation on their budget contribution and I could see no criticism of these. In a book published since our last debate Inside the EEC by Ruth Barrington and John Cooney, there is a caricature of the Taoiseach with his cap in hand, in a begging posture. While it may be an ingenious illustration, it is unfortunate and unfair. That is not to say that I condone the béal bocht attitude in any circumstances. In a recent paper by Joseph Lee termed “Reflections on Ireland in the E.E.C”, which was one of a series commissioned by a study group drawn from members of the Irish Council of the European Movement, the matter is treated in a fairer method, and I quote a small paragraph on page 40:

The strategy of any Irish Government concerned with improving the quality of our performance through the creation of a viable civic culture must aim at curbing the tendency towards escapist self-pity so prominent in the national psyche. The origins of that tendency may be attributed, if we so wish, to the colonial experience. But we are now sixty years into self-government. It is ironic to see the manner in which ‘post-colonialism' has become increasingly fashionable as an explanation of defects as we move ever further from political occupation. If we didn't need the ‘post-colonial' explanation in the ‘60s', then a later generation should have the self-respect to confine it within its proper limits.

I would not disagree with that. Ireland is not looking for something for nothing. We have much to contribute to the Community. I would like to quote another short paragraph from that paper on page 43 which is under the heading "Prospects".

Ireland enjoys a uniquely low standard of living among the thirteen capitalist states of northern and central Europe. While it would be churlish to deny that nobody has done more to deserve it, how the Irish have sustained that position poses one of the more challenging questions in comparitive economic history. It seems reasonable to surmise that none of the other economies operate so far below their potential ceiling as the Irish. I would hazard that the single most important reason has been the relative lack of incentive for performance, and equally importantly, the relative lack of disincentive for non-performance.

The author goes on to quote from James Neenan:

public resources have been freely spent to encourage production. There has been comparatively little insistence on efficiency: the resources have been placed impartially at the disposal of the efficient and the inefficient, particularly in agriculture.

I am not too sure if I would agree with the reference to agriculture, in particular, but the author has put his finger on a very important point there. Inefficiency seems to run through Irish life, whether it be in business, the office, in every sphere and even in the sphere of huge unemployment which can be regarded as a waste and an unfortunate situation about which it seem nothing is being done. With regard to the employment situation, as I said before, the State could very well provide total employment and use up the work force productively.

The Minister gave us a very full report on the last occasion, but there were some topics that he did not mention. In the remainder of my contribution, I would like to confine myself to these. At its constituent meeting of 15 October 1982, the Committee of Inquiry into the Situation of Women in Europe drew up a list of 18 themes of inquiry, including the application of the first two directives on equal pay and equal treatment and the proposals designed to supplement them. The Committee of Inquiry considered the draft report at their meetings of 17 and 18 October 1983, and this report was adopted unanimously at the meetings of 3 and 4 November 1983.

This report —"Working Documents 1983-1984"— is a very large tome of 552 pages. I would like to take out some parts of it and develop them somewhat, but this would take too long. It would give some idea of what the documents are concerned with if I refer to the different topics and give the number of pages devoted to each.

The application of the first two directives, directive on equal pay and directive on equal treatment, and proposals designed to supplement them, 49 pages. The implementation to date of the third directive, social security, target date 1984, 23 pages. Situation of women in Greece, 58 pages. Reduction and reorganisation of working time, 21 pages. Vocational training for women in Europe, 27 pages. Introduction of new technologies and their effect on employment for women, 19 pages. Position of women with respect to the review of the European Social Fund, 26 pages. Women and health, eight pages. Migrant women and wives of immigrants, 31 pages. Problems encountered by self-employed women, particularly in agriculture, trade and crafts, 18 pages. Situation of women in the European Community institutions, 26 pages. Women in the Third World and European aid, 32 pages. Information policy and women, 32 pages. Maternity, parental leave and pre-schools facilities, 19 pages. Taxation, special problems encountered by women, 29 pages. Problems of women in less-favoured regions, 28 pages. Education of girls in the European community, 33 pages. Place of women in the decision-making centres, 60 pages.

That resolution was adopted by the European Parliament on 17 January 1984. The result of the vote was: members voting 197, votes for 125, votes against 17, abstentions 55. At the meetings on 27 and 28 April 1982 it was decided to add the 18th topic: place of women in universities, cultural infrastructures and the media, radio, television, newspapers. The title of the report was changed to "The position of women in decision-making centres." It is obvious from the number of pages devoted to each theme that the most important one was the place of women in the decision-making centres. That is one aspect with which I totally agree. The ultimate objective must be equal representation for women on all bodies, an equal number of men and women in the Dáil, an equal number of men and women in the Seanad, in the county councils and on all bodies and in important situations, for example, as principals in schools. On examination boards there should be an equal number of men and women.

Another area which is important is religion, which is not referred to in the report, understandably enough perhaps. Religion is supposed to be based on moral principles but in the Catholic Church women are related to a secondary role. The point has been made by many people that in every sphere women should have the same opportunities as men. I cannot understand why women are not ordained and why women are not bishops. Ultimately I am sure a woman will be Pope. There may be historical reasons why women are not ordained, but they could not be defended in this day and age.

I should like to refer to paragraphs which were inserted into the final motion for resolution. The European Parliament notes that "an analysis of the figures indicating the percentage of women in top jobs in the ten Members States — in government institutions, parliaments, trade unions, universities, management positions in the mass media, the judiciary, diplomatic services and major cultural organisations — indicates overall progress compared with the past. This progress is, however, insufficient and varies widely according to the sectors analysed and the countries examined. Women in particular continue to remain in a minority in decision-making centres, to the point where in some instances there is a total absence of women. Discrimination between men and women increases the higher one rises in the hierarchy of government, parliamentary, cultural and university institutions, in the diplomatic services and in the information and mass media sector so that women ultimately fall back on traditionally feminine sectors.

It proposes "that the Commission, the Council and the Member States examine with the closest possible attention this discrimination against women, undertake detailed inquiries into this problem, take initiatives to promote awareness in political circles, in public opinion and among women themselves and adopt constructive measures to enable equality of opportunity to become a reality at the level of decision-making centres. Calls on the Commission to create scholarships for advance studies to help women reach the highest levels of political, social, scientific, intellectual and artistic activity; suggests that the Commission sponsor a European Conference as part of the action programme on equality of opportunity, with the aim of identifying the measures and initiatives which need to be taken to achieve a fairer representation of women in leading positions in the political, cultural and social life of the ten Member States."

The resolution was adopted on 17 January 1984. There is no need to include the resolution because it is outside the terms of the motion. That document was taken into consideration in relation to the resolution. Before leaving that subject, in case somebody might think that I am patronising or overplaying this role of the place of women in society, I want to say that, if women were taking their rightful share, or perhaps all of their share, the position generally today might not be any better, but it could not be any worse.

With regard to the developments in the European Communities, in the 23rd report, January 1984, under "Education Policy" it is stated that the Education Committee also considered the teaching of Community languages, the problem of employment for teachers and the Community programme of short study visits for local and regional administrators in the education systems.

This is an area where we are falling behind. I saw this borne out in a recent report. I do not feel there is any excuse for it. I am sure grants are available for this specific purpose.

With regard to energy policy in the 23rd report, this is an important area. On 4 November 1983 the Council finalised a report on the development of new Community policies for presentation to the Athens European Council. On 12 July the Council discussed the Commission communications on a balanced solid fuels policy, especially on investment aid for production of coal, peat and lignite and aid for reducing pithead coal stocks. The Council endorsed the need for a balanced overall policy to take account of the interests of all member states, and advised any member state submitting a specific request to the Commission to do so as early as possible. Ireland submitted a comprehensive memorandum to the Commission setting out particular problems.

We have reason to be very concerned with this particular area. I am not sure if we are making as much use of Community funds as we might. An Foras Forbartha are very concerned in this area. I note from the report on Community aid for solid fuel production in relation to research, development and demonstration on forest fields, that the Commission proposals should not exclude the domestic sector as research development and demonstration is also necessary at the domestic level for automation of fuel and ash handling, combustion efficiency, use of energy storage and control systems for small-scale solid fuel fired systems. This is important as a high proportion of solid fuel consumption in this country is in the domestic sector. For example, some 74 per cent of coal and 89 per cent of peat was directly consumed in 1982. The inclusion of peat production in the Commission's proposals for a solid fuel policy is welcomed by An Foras Forbartha.

In the European file issue of 1 January 1983 which deals with Community demonstration programmes in energy saving and alternative energy sources there is very little reference to Ireland with the exception of two maps showing energy projects. However, it states that in Counties Offaly and Mayo 600 hectares of woodland are being cropped intensively to feed a power station converted for wood burning. Perhaps we could have more programmes using biomass as in this situation.

The European Community is also involved in demonstration programmes for solar dryers for agricultural byproducts. Ireland could very well avail of some of those projects. The European Community also published in January 1983 a catalogue entitled "The European Community and the Energy Problem" which is worth reading. Ireland's work in this area is controlled by the National Board for Science and Technology. The work is funded by two different sections of the EEC funds — DG. 17 looks after energy and DG. 12 deals with research and education. Research and development are funded by DG. 12 while demonstration projects are funded by DG. 17. The EEC is very strict in its definitions.

It is also generally agreed that we are doing very well out of demonstration projects because they are put forward by industry, but we are doing very badly out of DG. 12. The kind of people who get finances are the research institutes, the energy board, the ESB, Bord Gáis, Bord na Móna and some of the universities, and 50 per cent of the money has to be put forward by these bodies. This could be a serious situation. More could be provided by the EEC, as generally the smaller countries lose out in these fundings. State funding is abysmally poor, for example, the Department of Energy's funding for research and development is non-existent. The National Board for Science and Technology are supposed to provide funds mainly in third level education but they have no budget. In demonstration projects the picture is much better. The quality of applications has been very good, and last year we received £2½ million through Irish companies. Over the last five or six years the amount paid to Irish companies was around £8 million.

In Ireland the open fire always has had a very special significance. As everybody knows, the open fire is particularly wasteful of heat. There was a special design competition about two years ago for an enclosed stove which could use native fuels, because many of the stoves available use only smokeless fuels. The winning designs are undergoing tests with IIRS. Much remains to be done in this area. Even here the EEC could help out more. There are some people who are particularly annoyed at the removal of grants for installation of solid fuel heating systems. They are concerned about whether we will soon or eventually have smokeless zones, because we have smog problems in Dublin. I suppose with natural gas coming into use this problem will end.

Another document I will refer to is the Haagerup Report. It has been praised and criticised and it has been given fairly wide publicity. The date on the report is 20 December 1983. It is a start in that the partition of our country has been taken up and considered by the EEC. We hope that better things will come from it, particularly when the EEC discuss the Forum Report. On page seven of the Haagerup Report it asks the Commission and the Council of Ministers of the European Community to undertake a major review of all current and planned projects in Northern Ireland and in the Border areas of the Republic to present an integrated plan for a major contribution to the development of Northern Ireland in conformity with the overall objectives of the European Community and to report to the European Parliament on the progress achieved as part of this plan. We have also at the same time got the Irish Border Areas Information Report from the Economic and Social Committee of the European Community. This is an EEC-backed development package costing IR£125 million and it is proposed for the Irish Border areas. The area — five counties in the Republic and seven district councils in Northern Ireland — is identified as one of the most under-developed in Europe. Unemployment here is almost double that of the rest of the island.

The report endorses plans for the upgrading of the Newry-Dundalk road at a cost of IR£14 million and calls for an agreement between the authorities North and South on routing and cost-sharing aspects. The press release stated that the natural gas pipeline between Dublin and Northern Ireland should follow an overland route. This would make it possible to supply Drogheda, Dundalk, Portadown, Lurgan and Newry. It goes on to say that spurs could be extended to different places. In view of all this, it is rather disappointing that we have problems with the arrangement between the UK and Ireland regarding the gas and I hope this will be resolved fairly soon.

The country is divided into seven planning regions, Donegal north west, Donegal west, north east, midlands, east, mid-west, south east and south west and I believe they have prepared development strategy plans up to the year 2004. I have examined the one in relation to the Galway-Mayo region which contains four volumes including the report and implementation manual which was completed in September 1983. Similar plans have been prepared by all the other planning regions. They cover tourism, linkage in industry, agricultural policy and aquaculture and fishing. The development strategy for the next 20 years is intended to provide a framework within which executive agencies such as the IDA, Bord Fáilte, local government, county councils and ACOT would work out their detailed plans and programmes and, because they are within the framework, integration and harmonisation of effort will follow. The strategy sets out how available resources and the regions' potential may best be utilised in the national interest.

Development strategy for all the regions was completed and published last year and perhaps the Minister would give us some information about this. I would be particularly interested in the eastern region which included my own county of Meath. Indeed in the future I would welcome a full debate on these development strategy studies. They give a special and human aspect to social policies, but they should not be considered inviolable or sacrosanct and the Government might profitably encourage flexibility to meet special and evolving needs as these arise. I would like to get information on future EEC policy regarding investment in the development area and the change in emphasis from single projects to programmes. For example, are we ready to adopt the forward planning system to meet the requirements of the EEC?

I referred already to European Community environmental protection and apparently this is confined solely to the natural environment. This should also be extended to deal with buildings in our cities and towns. In the European file catalogue of November 1983 which is No. 18/83, there is reference to the European Regional Development Fund. This states that the fund breaks down into two sections termed "quota" and "non-quota". The quota section refers to 95 per cent of available resources. It states that three-quarters of the money in this section is reserved for Greece, Italy, Ireland and the United Kingdom. I notice that Greece gets 13 per cent, Ireland 5.94 per cent, Italy 35.49 per cent and the United Kingdom 23.80 per cent which seems to be an area where perhaps our negotiators could do better because all this brings us back to the criticism of Ireland always looking for more. What do the media want? Would they be satisfied, for example, if our negotiators at the table said "thanks very much, but you are giving too much" instead of looking for more? Our negotiators do a very good and important job and I would be supportive of every endeavour to do the best we can to raise our standard of living to that of other countries.

Another document published last year in respect of member states, regions and administrative units, shows the population trend for the year 2000. Belgium will be +1.5 per cent, Germany -6.1 per cent, Denmark -0.4 per cent, France +7.9 per cent, the United Kingdom +4.1 per cent, Greece +11.1 per cent, Italy +3.4 per cent, Luxembourg +0.8 per cent, Netherlands +8.6 per cent and Ireland heading the list at +19.9 per cent. As our population is predicted to increase by 19 per cent by the year 2000 it gives us great concern with regard to crime and drugs, employment, housing and education. It is something towards which we should be devoting our energies from now on. I mentioned on the last occasion the suspension of the farm modernisation scheme, its reintroduction and the fact that some farmers were not satisfied with the situation and I will not elaborate on it today except to point out again that farming is the backbone of the community. The farm modernisation scheme should be looked at again and improved if at all possible.

Finally, I want to refer to a document which was published on 7 July 1983 and which is termed European Parliament Working Documents, 1983-1984 — Towards European Economic Recovery in the 1980s. On 14 December 1983 the enlarged bureau of the European Parliament under the chairmanship of Mr. Dankert authorised a group for recovery of the European economy consisting of the chairman of the six parliamentary committees to appoint economists to draw up a report on the economic crisis affecting the European Community and on the ways and means of bringing about a recovery of growth. This was presented to the European Parliament and prepared by Mr. M. Albert and Professor R. J. Ball. It would be impossible to give a précis of it, but overall it is not a very optimistic document. I quote a few sections from the conclusion:

What set the seal on the foundations of European unity at the beginning was the economic growth of the member countries. Nowadays it is a new factor which is giving impetus to European unity. A new factor which is gaining ground rapidly. This common factor is decadence. This is an abstract, vague sort of term whose real scope is difficult for us to grasp since our generation continues to harp back implicitly to its experience of rebirth and growth. But the facts are there.

Further on it refers to certain countries and it states:

The game they are playing is the zero-sum game, the game of zero growth which they have experienced for three years and from which they will not escape if they continue, each man for himself, to cultivate their private gardens separated by their mutual differences. Without realising that they are walling themselves in, and that all are prisoners. Instead of looking for a driving force which can pull them along together, they are wasting their energies in quarrels which serve only to slow each other down.

It was, of course, easier to embark on the building of Europe while sharing out the spoils of rapid growth than it is to continue when the growth in wealth stops. But one needs only to look at the débacle Europe has suffered in information technology to understand that there are only a few years left to indulge this petty self-destructive game of every man for himself.

Tomorrow, when the Community is nothing more than a poor old cripple, it will be too late to learn that "soft" growth builds a robust society, and that slow growth leads to run-down societies. Europe will have entered a new middle ages, the era of its own "balkanisation".

A final paragraph:

This recovery is possible. In Europe there is a mine of growth and social progress which has hardly been explored and is totally unexploited. This mine consists of the "multipliers of Community efficiency" which are described in this report.

How can they be put to work? At Community level strong impetus must be given, strong enough to create a psychological shock but prudent enough to prevent financial upheaval and particularly intelligent enough to command the broad support of all those involved.

I will be as brief as possible because I understand there are three other speakers after me. I will confine my remarks mainly to the second half of 1983 which is the report of Developments in the European Communities — Twenty-Third Report. In noting the contents of the report, and going through the general programme as outlined at the outset, one is particularly struck straightaway at the scarcity of the number of pages allocated, in particular, to education. When one examines paragraph 15 which deals with education one finds therein very, little by way of positive progress.

Paragraph 15.1 mentions that the Council formally adopted a resolution concerning vocational training policy in the European Communities. That was adopted on 11 July 1983, almost a year ago. Yet very little by way of real tangible effect has percolated through into the Irish educational system, and particularly into the Irish vocational education system, which is the body statutorily set up to monitor and to promote vocational education in the country. It is one of the characteristics of this area that it is generously sprinkled with verbs that are less than dynamic and could be described as inactive. Measures are examined, schemes are evaluated, changes are considered, committees are briefed, progress is noted, but as I said there is little by way of tangible or positive action. It is very hard to see how there could be positive action in the area of education. When one considers that EEC Ministers for Education get together only once every year one gets the impression that these annual get togethers are téte-a-téte, little more than talk-ins, rather than decision-making sessions.

The need to integrate new information technology, however, is obviously an area which has been getting some considerable emphasis and attention. One greets with satisfaction the increasing co-operation between the universities and industry and one hopes that the thrust of this development is now carried into second level education and into second level schools. This chapter on education touches briefly also on the problems of nations which have immigrant education problems. While there are various pilot projects on-going in those countries which have this problem — we are not one of them — there is a general air of pessimism and one does not anticipate great results from the schemes currently being monitored. One could say that we have a very parallel situation. We have our own migrants of a particular kind, in other words, our itinerant problem, which we have been less than considerably effective or successful.

There is particular significance in the solemn declaration on the European Union, which was signed by the Heads of Government at Stuttgart on 19 June 1983, in particular the points dealing with Community co-operation and education. Surely here lies a considerable portion to the key to the achievement of what must be the great European aspiration of us all, that is, total European integration. Surely it is in the achievement of a common education policy, an area which must be developed at all costs if we are to produce the young European citizen who is determined, unified, who has a progressive outlook towards Europe, where we and our children will have a common European philosophy.

Alas, however, one must record, as I hinted at earlier, that the EEC education policy is little more than at the embryonic stage. We are still, for example, talking about such fundamentals as the desirability of having a practical knowledge of at least two languages, apart from the mother tongue altogther. One must record that in European countries they are as far away from achieving this ideal as we are and that is some considerable distance. We must stand indicted for our dismal record and level of achievement in the area of linguistics. We still do not seem to be going anywhere. We still seem to persist with methods which are absolutely and total proven failures. We have failed to harness or to adapt to new technology for language teaching. Our schools in many cases openly discourage school tours abroad. In schools where the education authority relent and finally concede, they seem to adopt the attitude that they should sit on the fence rather than actively encourage such development. When these tours take place, they are too short a duration to be of any real significant benefit, and one comes back with little more than a cursory or superficial knowledge of how the other people live.

One must also express disappointment that this ripe area has not really taken off, that the potential which is so enormous here has not been tapped. It is obvious that the Department of Education after a very tentative, brief flirtation with the idea of teacher exchanges, has for some reason or other, financial o: otherwise, backed away from the idea again. There is a marked reluctance to recognise for official purposes time spent abroad by both teachers and pupils. I said earlier, far from encouraging people to participate in foreign travel within the EEC, there is a general dissuasion on the part of many school authorities. Yet, when communities and towns and villages throughout rural Ireland in particular, decide on their own initiative to liaise with their European counterparts in the EEC, this is not alone not recognised but receives in some cases a certain amount of denigratory comment.

I refer to a very valuable movement which has taken off in a big way particularly in the west, and this is the twinning operations which have now taken place over the past two to three years between small villages, communities and towns in rural Ireland with their counterparts in France, in particular. This is known as the Jumelage programme. If there is one area that holds out great promise and potential and hope for development of linguistic talents to assist people to achieve fluency in foreign languages, this is the one that should be encouraged. Yet there has not been EEC recognition, let alone financial stimulus to allow this worth-while development known as Jumelage to develop.

Moving away from education, the greatest challenge in this report is contained in paragraph 1, chapter 2, with the daunting statistic of 12.5 million people unemployed in the EEC at the end of December last. It would be foolhardy to make any rash presumption, but the report suggests that there is a slowing down of the increase in unemployment and this in itself must be welcomed. It is also encouraging to note the improvement in the general economic components such as inflation, balances of payments and so on throughout the EEC. This has been evident in the past few months here and should contribute to a deceleration in the rate of increase in unemployment.

However, we should be more aware that things are not happening quickly enough. We should appreciate that we are sitting on a massive time bomb the social implications of which are evident already in society and which could ignite and go off at any moment with disastrous chaotic consequences for society. Therefore, one notes with a certain amount of gratitude the Community report which states that this is well comprehended in the EEC, because paragraph 11.7 sets down the need for further impetus so that the European economy will regain the desired course of significant growth. This is particularly required here because of our unique demographic structure, with such a high proportion in the sub 25 years age group out of work.

The report touches briefly on the direct measures and new initiatives being undertaken with EEC assistance to alleviate our unemployment problem and to help to train and retrain people who are unemployed. We should record our appreciation and satisfaction at five initiatives in particular as a result of Community promptings. There are the innovatory job creation projects currently being supported by the Youth Employment Scheme which have continuing programmes in Carrigtwohill in Cork, Glasnevin in Dublin and in the Mid-West region, in Ennis, Limerick and Shannon. These projects are specifically for young people and receive very intensive assistance towards business training, training in skills, project evaluation, guidance and administrative, technical and financial support.

We have the community and youth enterprise programmes, established in 1983 with the assistance of the Youth Employment Agency, with the task of alleviating the problem of unemployment, in particular among young people, to establish their own businesses by invoking the support and involvement of local communities. The idea is that local community youth organisations using local expertise should identify together to develop specific projects, business ideas, which can be put before young people and got under way independently or as co-operatives. The whole thrust of this project is the development of local enterprise and the provision of assistance and the creation of a suitable climate to enable this type of enterprise to blossom. One notes that there are 25 such projects being monitored and we await with keen anticipation the results of the projects.

Under the youth self-employment programme, young people with viable business ideas are given guaranteed loans of up to £3,000 per person. This scheme is jointly organised by the Youth Employment Agency and the Bank of Ireland. There is also the start-your-own-business course organised by AnCO, another valuable project.

The one I see the greatest hope in is the Youth Employment Agency one, the enterprise allowance scheme. The Youth Employment Agency have been showing the necessary flexibility, ingenuity and imagination by introducing a certain amount of flexibility of rules to allow people to start their own businesses. They allow people to move into service industries and services. In other words, it is realised that jobs created in the economy are jobs, and the people are not being tied down to industrial or manufacturing employment. In this scheme, a young person drawing unemployment benefit or assistance for a period of 13 weeks can retain the benefit or assistance at the weekly rate of £30 in the case of a single person and £50 in the case of a married person for a period of one year. If those people wish to get the lump sum, the entire amount, at the beginning in order to have the capital to launch a project, the necessary flexibility is built into the scheme to allow this to occur. Initially, as far as I can recall, there were 500 places, they were grabbed up straight away and there are still 1,500 applications before the Youth Employment Agency. The National Manpower Service are doing very valuable work in organising these projects. I am trying to stay clear of the areas which undoubtedly will be covered by Senator O'Leary in his usual mindsweeping comprehensive operation. I have tried to keep within the matters touched on by Senator Fitzsimons, matters related to unemployment with minor reference to education. Finally, I will record my dissatisfaction with one development.

In 1983 we were extremely lucky in the west to be given a total grant of £9.7 million towards the western drainage scheme. This scheme has now been exhausted and it is a tragedy that with so many acres of unexploited wasteland in the west, with great potential for development, the scheme has been suspended. I look forward to those in authority to do all in their power and to use strong advocacy to have the scheme re-established. The aim to introduce equality throughout the EEC by bringing the level of land production in the west of Ireland up to that of other EEC countries has not been nearly realised. We have gone a long way but as long as thousands of acres of undrained land, a reservoir with rich potential, are left in the west we will never reach the stage of equilibrium with the rest of the EEC which we deserve.

A number of other developments have taken place, such as the withdrawal of the lime subsidy and part withdrawal of the AI subsidy. This, again, seems to militate against the west. When we entered the EEC we were led to believe that the Regional Fund would supply endless benefits for us and bring us to the level of better off areas in the country.

I should like to refer thankfully to the trenchant stand taken by the Minister for Agriculture and the Taoiseach in negotiations. As Senator Fitzsimons said, we do not want to be labelled as the beggarmen of Europe but this was one matter on which, without apology to our EEC partners, we trenchantly stuck to our guns in a matter of vital national interest. The Minister for Agriculture has not received the necessary credit for the degree of success achieved here. We succeeded in getting a 4.6 per cent derogation when our co-partners within the EEC were being cut back to the 1981 level. It was a significant achievement, and I only hope that the worst fears expressed by the Minister recently that we will not reach the target are not realised.

I know we refer to the European Commission as the European Economic Commission, but in fact the initial motivation was political. The idea was that never again would we have to endure the tribal barbaric wars in Europe. But, obviously, the visionary Frenchmen and others in Europe saw the necessity for some kind of cohesion, co-ordination, harmonisation of economics and monetary schemes and harmonisation of social policies. They did that. This must be regarded as a success story notwithstanding the various failures from time to time that were met. The biggest problem at the moment — it should not be regarded as a failure taken in the context of world recession — is the massive unemployment problem, one of 11 per cent. During the years 1973-1983 the United States created 15 million jobs and our united states of Europe lost three million. That is a contradiction immediately.

The most alarming problem inside the unemployment problem is the one of under 25 years of age. The average unemployment figure is 11 per cent and the average under 25 is 25 per cent.

There is a consciousness in Europe at the moment in that out of the social fund they allow for vocational training. That is a good thing, but one must ask, is the training speculative or is it done in such a way that the lads can be placed after they are trained. I believe in speculative training, but one must come to a situation where we look for machinery to develop comprehensive work places. That means investment and everything that is associated with creating work. Another remarkable thing I discovered — the motion asks us to note the developments in Europe — is that the Commission sent to the standing committee only two items for discussion on unemployment. The remarkable thing is that the first was the reorganisation of working time. They must have thought that this would make a contribution to the unemployment problem. Some of us in this Chamber thought the same thing at one time. The second item was young people in the labour market and it was said that this was not good enough.

The employer and worker representation expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the lack of a broader look at the whole economic situation and, at a later stage, the workers' representatives withdrew. On the workers theme, fears have been expressed inside the British TUC but they have not been expressed inside the ICTU about the effect on the closed shop arising from what is called, freedom of association. The question asked is, does freedom of association mean freedom not to associate? The same problem arises on the basis of freedom for education. The parents inside Europe have the right to educate their children in the school of their choice. If this means a public school what would happen to the public school inside a left dominated country? Those questions must be asked eventually but they have not raised their heads yet.

There is evidence, of course, of a rather slow economic recovery in early 1983. Inflation fell to under 9 per cent. It continues to fall and it is expected that the figure eventually will be 6.5 per cent. That is good.

I have talked about co-ordination of economies, the bringing together of all investment procedures, the question of productivity and the extension of markets but I have not read in the three reports any real machinery for doing this. I have read calls for co-operation between the nation states but I do not see machinery. I get the impression that the nation states, each one of the Ten, must be left with the responsibility if the EEC provides the finance. They must have the responsibility. If that is true then Ireland has that responsibility to go on with its programmes if it can with assistance from the EEC. They seek comprehensive strategy for economic recovery, encouraging productivity and the expansion of markets. There is a successful agricultural policy although it produces an over-abundance. The idea was a single market and common prices. They have come to an agreement after six years negotiations on a common fishing policy and that is very good.

The question of the relationship of Europe with Third World countries arises on the over-abundance of production. Why cannot the over-abundance of food be given to those Third World countries? The other relationship is that eventually the north part of the world and the south part of the world where the under-developed countries are will have to do something about the inequality as between north and south. I will give a stark figure to explain the inequality. If the world population was reduced to 1,000, 60 of the 1,000 would have half the income, six per cent while 700 of the 1,000 would be illiterate. Illiteracy means that a person's full character cannot be developed as long as it continues. Hunger, poverty and disease must be tackled by the nations with the assistance of the nations who have not. Technical and technological aid as well as over-abundance of food must be provided.

I have given a promise not to speak too long, because other Senators want to contribute.

I should like to take this opportunity to make a few comments on the developments in the EEC during 1983. I do not intend to delay the House very long. My comments will be on the areas of interest to myself. Other members of my party have covered the other areas of activity. I am sorry to disappoint Senator Higgins but I do not intend to be comprehensive at all in what I have to say. I will be dealing with the areas I feel are important at present.

The periods of time covered by the two reports are from the beginning of January 1984 and from the end of January 1984 ending in July 1983. I should like to mention a few of the items referred to and give my opinion on them. I should like to refer in the first place to the common agricultural policy, which Senator McGonagle has already referred to. I should like, secondly, to refer to the agricultural position in the light of the recently concluded agreement in the area of the milk super-levy and other similar developments. I should like to make some reference to the relationship between the industrialised countries, the United States of America and the European Economic Community in particular. Lastly I should like to make some reference to the policy of the Community in respect of Articles 85 and 86 of the Treaty. They are the four areas that I should like to discuss briefly.

I mentioned previously that the success of the Common Fisheries Policy negotiations, reported in the Twenty-Third Report represents a considerable achievement by those who negotiated on our behalf. The negotiators showed considerable negotiating skills in achieving for us quite a reasonable fisheries deal within the context of what was available. However, the basic ground rules by which our negotiators were operating were unfair. I believe the Common Fisheries Policy to have been a fraud by the original six EEC members on those who joined later. The adoption by them of proposals which led ultimately to a common fisheries policy, and in particular the adoption by them of certain Treaty changes prior to our accession in 1973, had the effect of reducing the possibility of both Britain and Ireland benefiting to a proper extent in respect of the area immediately around their coasts. Between Britain and Ireland the percentage of the waters of the Community which one would assume to be under the national control of Britain and Ireland is very high indeed, something in the order of 40 per cent. We must bear in mind that other EEC countries, such as France and the Benelux countries, had overfished their own traditional areas and prior to our accession to the Community had entered into a policy which deliberately sought to minimise in national terms the claim we had to the areas 50 miles around our own coast.

Fish is a national resource. What national resource of the other member states is shared in the same way as fish? Would one seriously suggest that the national resource of oil or minerals such as coal or the resource of water should be voluntarily given by one member of the EEC to another? Why then should there be any exception in the case of fish?

The Common Fisheries Policy was agreed at the final meeting of the Council in 1983 and it is reported on page 39 of the Twenty-Third Report. While it represents a good deal for Ireland within the context of our membership of the EEC and the rules which apply within that organisation, the rules are stacked against this country and continue to represent a fraud by the original members of the European Community on this and other countries. I believe that to be very serious. This represents our continuous payment to the Community. I do not believe that our Ministers in successive Governments have been sufficiently vigorous in pointing out that this is an entrance fee which we paid in the past and which we are continuing to pay for our membership of the EEC. We have never exploited the wrong that was done to us to our advantage in other negotiations. I understand that these things have to be done in a diplomatic and appropriate fashion, but we should state our dissatisfaction at a time of quiet so that when the pressure is on at a later stage we can point, back to the Common Fisheries Policy through which we have made a substantial contribution to the economic well-being of other members of the Community.

I now refer to agriculture. One cannot but be impressed by the growth in stocks both within Ireland and within the Community at large, particularly in the milk area. Page 30 of the Twenty-Third Report outlines the growth, and it is set in contrast not so much with the opening figures in that report but with the opening figures in the Twenty-Second Report. One sees the change over a 12-month period. For example, in the Community at large there was an increase in skimmed milk powder from 574,000 tonnes to 989,000 tonnes, almost doubling the amount of skimmed milk powder in intervention. Similarly during that period there was an increase from 110,000 tonnes of butter to 691,000 tonnes, this representing a 6.5 times increase in the amount in intervention. That is a very serious matter for this country, and our national figures for both skimmed milk and butter reflect precisely the same trend. In the case of skimmed milk our stock went from 65,000 tonnes to 126,000 tonnes and, in the case of butter, from 11,400 to 51,200 tonnes. That is a very significant change and one which obviously signals the dangers of not agreeing to some restriction on agricultural production, particularly dairy production.

For that reason the super-levy negotiators represented a triumph for the country and for the Government. The most significant factor in these negotiations is not that our farmers achieved an increase of 4.6 per cent over the 1983 figures. The most significant fact is that the other countries have to reduce. If we can even maintain a modest growth in our production in these areas at a time when financial penalties are being imposed on the rest of the Community, then in due course we will become the natural and economic producers of these products, as we should be. Our markets will be secure and our prices will be right. The Community will be saved the expense of financing the common agricultural policy to the extent it has in the past and we will be assured of a good and profitable market in the years to come. That is very important.

During the super-levy negotiations certain changes took place in the monetary compensatory amounts which operate in respect of various countries in the Community. I do not know of anybody who understands monetary compensatory amounts — I suspect nobody understands them at all.

People understand them once in their lives.

And they lose it again. This was a very significant change for Ireland. Not only has there been a beneficial change in the milk production and in the pricing structure of milk but there has also been significant benefit in the beef area. Once again our negotiators are to be congratulated. The success of the super-levy negotiations means that in due course we will reduce our dependence on grants from the EEC and the market price will stabilise to such an extent that we will be receiving from the market place what we are receiving at present by way of subvention from the EEC.

I could not allow the occasion to pass without mentioning the relationships between the industrialised countries in general, the USA in particular, and the EEC. It is true to say that the USA are at present pursuing, and have been in the last few years, a policy which was not well disposed towards the European Economic Community. The Twenty-Second Report, at paragraph 4.7, outlines the problems that arose with regard to the sale of some wheat which was in breach of agreements between Ireland and the USA, Ireland being one of the participating countries under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. Similarly, in the last few reports there have been reported a considerable number of difficulties the Community has been experiencing with the USA in the matter of steel. The tariffs and quotas which have been established in the area of steel are breaking the existing rules governing these matters. I would recommend that the USA change their attitude and come to recognise that a healthy European Economic Community is the best bulwark they have against communism or the growth of any other kind of alien ideology in Western Europe. There is no doubt that the only thing which will dragdown Western Europe is unemployment, referred to already by Senator Higgins. I think he is right; it is the big danger confronting us. We have a young population who are under-employed. It is in the interests of the USA to ensure that they are properly employed. It is important that the concern of this House be expressed to the USA in these matters.

The Twenty-Third Report, at page 20, paragraph 4.13 deals with the problem of the limitation of imports of speciality steel. As far as I know speciality steel is not produced by Irish Steel Limited in Cork. Of course the limitation on export of speciality steel increases the pressure on the steel market in Europe in general and, as such, has a indirect effect on the Irish steel industry, indeed that throughout the Community. It is said in that report, at paragraph 4.14 that, in accordance with its rights under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade the Community sought compulsory tariff concessions in other areas in the course of consultations. Again, in accordance with the GATT rights the Council, on 29 November 1983, decided that if the USA failed to agree satisfactory compensation by 15 January 1984 the Community would proceed to impose retaliatory restrictions against certain imports from the USA. That is not the spirit in which trade between the USA and Europe should develop. For that reason the concern of this country, as one of the participators in the EEC, should be expressed.

The last matter to which I should like to refer is one that is somewhat more esoteric than the others to which we have referred. It is the way in which Articles 85 and 86 of the European Economic Treaty are being administered. By and large Articles 85 and 86 deal with the abuse of a dominant position by a supplier in the Community. The people who are called to task in this are the multi-nationals. Very often there are companies such as IBM, Ford and others called to task. It is a matter of considerable importance for the Community at large and one of particular importance to Ireland that there be an international body capable of taking on these multi-nationals in so far as such is necessary. I was surprised, indeed amazed, that there was criticism expressed in last Friday's Cork Examiner of one such report, on the decision of the EEC to intervene, under Articles 85 and 86, in the case of International Business Machines, an alleged abuse by them of their dominant market position. It was suggested in that newspaper that in some way this was not a proper matter for the EEC and that they should do better with their time. It is very proper that multi-nationals should be confronted by states on a multi-national basis, something which has my complete support.

To explain the relevance of this to the House it would be well to look at page 70 of the Twenty-Third Report, a decision there reported, No. 83/560, which deals with the Ford Motor Company. It is a dispute between the Commission and the Ford Motor Company which has considerable implications not only in the sense of the Ford Motor Company obviously being the subject of an investigation which might give rise to their being fined eventually but it has, or will in the next six months, have specific reference to this country. That decision related to the distribution system operated by the Ford Motor Company in Cologne in the Federal Republic of Germany where they adopted a restriction on competition by refusing to allow dealers in West Germany to supply right hand drive motor vehicles for exportation to Britain with a consequent saving of money. There was a potential substantial saving through people buying their motor cars in Germany, exporting them to Britain and paying the appropriate duties at the points of importation. The reason that that would have involved a substantial saving of money is that there is a very high selling price for motor vehicles in Britain, a basic selling price, leaving aside the question of taxation. Believe it or not, the basic selling price of motor vehicles in Ireland is not quite as high as that in Britain but it is high by continental standards. After 31 December 1984 — which is just six months away — it should be possible for us to take advantage of the decision reported here, when it will be possible for people to insist on the importation of motor vehicles and, of course, pay the proper duties at the points of importation. It may well be that, in respect of some models, there will be a substantial saving of cost. In that way the decision of the Community, which appears very remote, will have a considerable impact on our lifestyle within the course of the next few months.

I commend the Commission for their diligent pursuit of the responsibilities given them under Articles 85 and 86 of the Treaty, and it is very important that we express our support in that regard. I have not sought to express a general view on the Community's performance or on our place within that Community but rather limit myself to an expression of individual concerns which I felt more appropriate arising on the motion put down on the Twenty-First, Twenty-Second and Twenty-Third Reports on Developments in the European Communities.

I think we have had this afternoon, and on the two previous occasions on which we discussed this motion, an interesting debate. I would express some disappointment that more Senators have not offered to speak in the debate. It may well be that the gaps between our previous occasions of debate have been unduly long and this led them to lose interest. However, nine Senators as well as the Minister have spoken in the debate and Senator Ferris and I, who put down this motion as a Government motion to allow the widest possible debate, are grateful to them. However, I want to comment that of those nine Senators four come from my own party of Fine Gael, three from the Fianna Fáil Party and two from the Labour Party. It is a matter perhaps of surprise that Independent Senators of this House tend from time to time to lecture those who seek political progress through membership of political parties on their shortcomings as Senators and as public representatives.

Practically all of those who spoke made reference to the unfortunate fact that there was a distinct delay in placing before the Houses of the Oireachtas the reports on developments in the EEC that we are discussing this evening. The position was that the Twenty-First Report, which dealt with the second half of 1982, was only placed before the Houses of the Oireachtas six months after the close of that period. The Twenty-Second Report, which dealt with the first half of 1983, was only placed before the Houses of the Oireachtas nine months after the period ended, although there was some improvement with regard to the Twenty-Third Report which dealt with the second half of 1983 and which was laid before the Houses five months after the end of the period. I think the message has gone quite clearly from Seanad Éireann, and I have endeavoured as Leader of the House to reinforce this message, that this is just not good enough, and that if there is to be a thorough debate of developments in the EEC these reports must be available at an earlier date. I have been informed, and it was confirmed to me today, that the hope is that the Twenty-Fourth Report, which is for the six months ended 30 June, will, hopefully, be laid before this House and before Dáil Éireann in September, which would involve a lapse of only three months. I think we all hope sincerely that that is an aspiration that can be met.

The debate has covered a large number of areas, which is only natural because the Community, whether it is developing or stagnating, affects so many aspects of our Irish life. Senator Lanigan, opening the debate after the Minister's statement, placed in the forefront of his contribution the problem of unemployment. This was adverted to by a number of other speakers, notably Senator Harte, Senator Higgins, Senator McGonagle and Senator O'Leary. In dealing with this particular point I would like to stress that the Government, in their preparation for the Presidency of the Council which they have just entered, have looked at a number of ways in which the Community can use its potentially immense collective strength to combat the appalling unemployment situation. The Minister for Foreign Affairs in his recitation of the work programme for the Irish Presidency of the Commission has put this issue among his priorities and will press for badlyneeded action. Further along this line, I would draw the attention of the House to a particular part of the statement made by the Taoiseach on Friday last reporting on the European Summit in Fontainebleau. Since that record has not yet been circulated I would like to quote what the Taoiseach said on that occasion. I am quoting from his statement made to Dáil Éireann on Friday 29 June:

In a contribution to the work of the Council, on the first day, I drew attention to the menacing economic problems facing the Community. In the United States, total employment has increased in the ten years between 1973 and 1983 by more than 15 million. In the Community with a rough equivalence of population, employment fell in the same period by two million. I indicated our acceptance of the fact that, as had been suggested, there is need to improve flexibility in the labour market in Europe and to control excessive Government spending, especially where this imposes severe problems on taxpayers. But I added that we could not be happy with the failure to use the collective strength of the Communities and with their lack of joint action to improve economic growth. There is, in particular, the need for the Community to be ready to face the consequences of a possible halving of US growth rates next year, which, if we take no corrective European action, would eventually, if not in 1985, then in 1986, reduce the much lower growth rates so far achieved in Europe.

The Taoiseach continued:

This must be a major theme in our Presidency. What is clear is that market forces, left to themselves, will not resolve the unemployment crisis. Additional measures may be needed, both to provide an economic stimulus and to alleviate unemployment, for example, as I suggested at the Council, by applying the Social Fund to the task of substituting work for unemployment, rather than just training people for work which in some cases may not be available.

I think it is clear from what the Taoiseach said on that occasion on the eve of entering into the Presidency of the EEC that the question of unemployment which has loomed large in this debate will be a major preoccupation of the Community under our Presidency. This was reinforced by a statement made yesterday by the Minister for Labour, who again spoke on similar lines about this being a major task, a major preoccupation, and a measured by which our Presidency may well be judged.

A Leas Chathaoirligh, it is now 5 o'clock. I am uncertain how much longer I will be dealing with the debate and I would be happy to resume on the next day. I do not know what the wish of the House is.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Could you give any indication of what time you will need?

Between 20 minutes and half an hour.

I propose that the Senator be allowed to continue.

Agreed.

I will endeavour not to go beyond half an hour. The next point that I would like to take up is the question of the European union, the idea of Europe as a union. It was noted by, I think, Senator McDonald that there has been a very distinct lack of progress in many areas. Indeed, it can be said that there has been a very distinct lack of debate in regard to this in this country compared to the level of debate that there was in 1983 in the European Parliament.

As Senator McGonagle has pointed out, the basis of the original formation was the avoidance of war but the instrument that was chosen was that of economic co-operation, first in the strategic industries of iron, coal and steel but later throughout the whole of economic activity. We face now in the Community, in attempting to bring to realisation the Stuttgart Declaration which Senator Higgins mentioned, a problem in regard to what the instruments should be. The attitude of successive Irish Governments has been, I think properly, that it would be a mistake to think that everything could be done through political instruments and through political co-operation. While political co-operation and economic co-operation should both progress towards an ultimate union, we in particular would tend to suffer if political co-operation were to outrun economic co-operation to a considerable extent.

Senator Fitzsimons mentioned, in regard to our attitudes to Europe as it has been developed, the recent publication by Professor Joe Lee which was published by the Institute of Public Administration. This is a study of our basic attitudes in this country to the Community that well deserves study. It may well be that perhaps we should have a debate to note Professor Lee's monographs which attempt to get to the roots of our fundamental attitudes to Europe rather than noting a series of reports that are full of statistics. The reality of where Ireland is going to go in the Community is more relevantly discussed in a monograph like Professor Lee's than in a compendium of what has happened over a period of six months.

A number of other points which touch on the idea of European union, touch on the idea of unemployment which was discussed. Senator Fitzsimons discussed the question of energy which is fundamental to the question of industrial production, and it came up earlier this afternoon in the debate on Irish Steel. He called attention to one point which I think is a difficulty in regard to the operation of the Community. In relation to the question of energy he mentioned that there was a very sharp line drawn between the operations of Directive General 12 which deals with research and development and Directive General 17 which deals with demonstration projects in energy. This is a problem that runs right throughout the whole of the Community's operation. The various directive generals in the Community tend to work in water-tight compartments.

There was in the course of the debate quite a good deal of discussion on the question of agriculture. In the earlier part of the debate which took place before the settlement in regard to the Common Agriculture Policy there was a debate on the position of our dairy industry, on our particular problems and there was a note of anxiety in regard to the future. However, today after the event we have the success following what Senator Higgins described as the sanctions stand by the Minister for Agriculture, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Taoiseach. The position has changed in that sense. The overall position that led to that crisis has not changed. Senator O'Leary drew attention in his contribution to the growth during 1983 of agricultural produce. Our difficulties, and they were very real, were compounded by the fact that we failed during ten years of favourable conditions under the Common Agricultural Policy to achieve the structural reform which would allow us to get through a crisis such as occurred. If we neglect as we go forward structural reform in agriculture we will have recurring crises in regard to this.

A number of Senators referred to the matter of fisheries. In that connection, Senator O'Leary quite properly drew attention to the fact that we were prejudiced from the beginning in fisheries negotiations by the actual terms of entry, by the actions of the original Six, immediately before the accession of Britain, Denmark and ourselves. Given that disadvantage, Senator McGonagle and Senator Fitzsimons welcomed the agreement, and I think we must all welcome the agreement made in regard to fisheries.

A number of Senators talked about the Regional and Social Funds. In the past few years this has been one of the areas of disappointment in regard to the development of the Community. In a sense it was impossible to look for any real development, any real change, so long as the budgetary problem remained unresolved. We would hope now that the budgetary problem has been resolved that we would see an era of real development in regard to the Regional and Social Funds. Nevertheless, as Senator Hillery in particular pointed out, there was a good start in regard to the Social Fund in 1983. Senator Fitzsimons in his contribution seemed to think that our share — at the moment it is just under 6 per cent — was not what we would be due under the Regional Fund. I think he undervalues what has been achieved in this regard. The negotiations in regard to change on the basis of the Regional Fund were particularly difficult negotiations for us. We came out with our position undamaged from those negotiations. There may seem to be huge amounts going to other countries, but while we have our problems in this country we do not have anything to match the poverty of rural Greece. We do not have anything to match the destitution of southern Italy. While we may think it remarkable that parts of the United Kingdom benefit under the Regional Fund we should not think of the United Kingdom in terms of south-east England. That is what tends to come across on our television sets. It seems to be what we see when we think of the United Kingdom. There are areas of the United Kingdom, in the peripheral areas in Scotland and in Wales, where a living is hard to come by. That does not mean we should not look for more. Senator Higgins mentioned the problems of the west, of what can be done by drainage in the west. There is a very good case here and we hope that case will be pressed.

Senator McDonald mentioned development aid and asked that the figures in regard to development aid be published. I felt, sitting through this debate, that this problem did not receive either in the reports or in the debate the attention it would deserve. However, since this debate started the Department of Foreign Affairs have published a report on last year's work in development aid with a look back over the last ten years at our programme of development aid. It would be my intention to give Government time in the autumn for a discussion of that report so that we could discuss both our Government aid which is channelled through the EEC and Government aid generally.

The question of the over-abundance of food and the possibility of making this available to the Third World was raised during the debate. One of the major tasks of the Irish Presidency will be the final negotiations of the third Lomé agreement. In this connection, we must recognise that we have a good record. The Taoiseach when he was Minister for Foreign Affairs carried on extremely successful negotiations in regard to an earlier Lomé agreement, and we hope our Ministers and officials will find a solution to this problem.

I was glad Senator Fitzsimons raised the question of women in Europe. This is something we should always discuss when we are dealing with problems of this kind. There is a good deal to give us thought in the Report of the European Parliament which he mentioned. There is a good deal to give us thought as to whether we have not just last year but over the period of ten years moved as quickly as we might either under the compulsion of directives or voluntarily. We will have other opportunities to discuss this. There is hope that the Joint Committee on Women's Rights will report in this autumn on the first topic which it has taken up, and that is education in all its aspects. Many of the points Senator Fitzsimons made can be discussed in greater detail when that report comes before us.

In regard to education and training, Senators Fitzsimons and Higgins dealt with this point. Senator McGonagle also dealt with it. It is very useful, as Senator Higgins pointed out, that the Ministers are meeting only once a year. The points he made about what might be done and having a key to union by exchange in comparison with the present situation, which is hardly mutual recognition of the contacts that are being made and in regard to youth employment, are all points that must be central during the Irish Presidency.

Before I pass from economic to political matters, during his contribution the last day Senator Fitzsimons asked for certain information. Firstly he asked for information in regard to grants which had been made under the fisheries programme and grants which had been made under education and exchange programmes. The Department of Foreign Affairs have given me the following information which I am happy to put on record. In regard to grants towards fishing and aquaculture projects in Ireland, in the period 1974 to date there has been a total of over £20 million in grants. Of that by far the largest amount was £16,444,391 for the construction of vessels. There was a further grant of £382,847 for the modernisation of vessels. In regard to aquaculture, the total amount of grants was £3,394,375 of which over £3,300,000 was for mariculture and just over £90,000 for fish farming.

In regard to the question of the grant for educational and exchange programmes under the EEC and in regard to the preparation of young people for working life there are three pilot projects in Shannon, Dublin and Galway. In 1983 the grants for these were £189,000.

Under a second heading of joint study programmes for third level, a number of colleges benefit from this but no figure is readily available. Under another third programme Irish educational administrators received grants for study visits. In 1983 these amounted to £6.413 million.

Under a fourth heading, AnCO during 1983 received for these purposes £45 million, a very substantial amount, and the Youth Employment Agency in 1983 received grants of £370,000.

Under a sixth heading, CERT received in 1983 approximately £1.4 million. Separate from all these the Department of Education received £11.7 million, a good deal of which was used for capital works on school buildings. The National Manpower Programme received grants of £3 million.

Under a ninth heading, the Exchange of Young Workers Programme, 157 young workers went to member states in 1983. The figure in 1979 was 33. Between 1979 and 1983 a total of 437 people went from Ireland under such exchanges. This amounts to over 11 per cent of the exchanges between all member states. In this regard we are receiving our share.

I should like to turn from economic matters which are properly the subject of the Community itself to economic political co-operation which is a voluntary matter and is dealt with separately in the three reports. Senator Lanigan in his speech said the Minister had made no reference in his statement to neutrality. All I can say is what the Minister of State, Deputy O'Keeffe, said last week in introducing the Estimate for the Department of Foreign Affairs, that it should not be necessary for an Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs on each occasion on which he speaks about foreign policy to reiterate the Government's commitment to Ireland's neutrality. That commitment is set out in the Programme for Government adopted in December 1982 and it has been repeated on numerous occasions by the Minister and other members of the Government. If Ministers were to repeat too often the position in regard to neutrality people might well believe we were in the position of the lady who did protest too much. The situation is clear beyond any doubt. The Minister on 15 February this year when the occasion called for it set out our neutral position to the Seanad.

Senator Lanigan also spoke of the question of disarmament and the nuclear weapons in Europe. The Government have made it quite clear that they have availed of every appropriate opportunity to make the parties involved aware of the Irish Government's concern that the major arms control negotiations between the US and the Soviet Union, that is INF and SDART, which are currently suspended should resume and should do so with a genuine and manifest aim of succeeding. During the recent visit of President Reagan, this concern was conveyed personally to him. Since Ireland is outside military alliances and neither directly nor indirectly involved in INF and SDART talks, the Government have not endorsed the successive negotiating positions of either side, but instead have based their approach on urging the pressing need for both parties not to use these weapons. It would, indeed, be inappropriate for us to comment, or more to support, the negotiating position of the other side. The Government will continue to urge a resumption and a successful conclusion of these talks.

Senator Lanigan also referred to the contribution of Irish troops to UN peace-keeping in south Lebanon. I would like to join with him, and I am sure all Senators join in paying tribute to the courage, determination and effectiveness of our troops who have carried out the UN mandate in very difficult and often dangerous circumstances in Lebanon. From the outset, the conditions in which UNIFIL were obliged to operate have been unsatisfactory. This situation was made a good deal worse by the second Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and by the presence of Israel in southern Lebanon following that invasion. Nonetheless, the Government believe that UNIFIL continue to perform useful and important functions in their area of operations. The Ten have consistently supported UNIFIL in their difficult task overseeing the restoration of peace and stability in southern Lebanon.

Ireland has been privileged to participate in almost all UN peace-keeping operations since we joined the UN in 1955. I think all parties agree that UN peace-keeping has a number of inherent strengths and advantages, and it is notable that in a world fraught with confrontation and violence there is some measure of peace and stability wherever there is a UN peace-keeping presence.

There are, of course, a number of current problems that are matters of concern to the members of the Ten and discussed by them as part of European political co-operation. One of these is the Middle East. I agree with Senator Lanigan concerning the ominous implications of the possible escalation of the war between Iran and Iraq. This is a conflict to which the Foreign Ministers meeting under Europeal political co-operation have devoted a good deal of time.

Confirmation that chemical weapons have been used in the battlefield were received from the UN. In March the Foreign Ministers issued a statement in which they recall their unreserved condemnation of the use of such weapons. Subsequently, Ireland and the other members of the Ten introduced export controls on chemicals bound for both Iran and Iraq. We now have the escalation of that war into the so-called tanker war, which is creating considerable difficulties. Ireland continues to adhere to a policy of strict neutrality between the belligerents in this war. We have been pleased to react positively to a request from the US Secretary-General for two Irish Army officers to act as observers for the monitoring of the recent agreement between Iran and Iraq on not attacking purely civilian targets.

But, in all candour, one must say the prospects for an end to this most unfortunate war do not appear to be good. Nevertheless, the Irish Government intend to continue to stress, in their contacts with the Iranian and Iraqi authorities, the need to solve the disputes by negotiation and the benefits to both countries that would flow from an early ceasefire.

These are the main points, both in regard to economic policy under the Treaties and European political co-operation under voluntary co-operation to which I thought I should reply after a most useful debate, again one in which one would have hoped more Senators would have joined.

Question put and agreed to.
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