When we adjourned this debate yesterday evening we all seemed to be in a very jovial mood, including the Minister and the people on the other side of the House. Then I was speaking generally on the Bill. This morning we will get down to more serious discussion and deal with a few facts that will indicate the seriousness of this Bill to the local authorities.
I want to reiterate in the most serious terms that I can that the people, the local authorities, the county managers and members of local authorities are completely disgusted that there is no local reform in this Bill. I hope I will get an opportunity here today to bring to the notice of the Minister the imbalances that exist in the various local authorities throughout this country. I will spend very little time on the geographical changes that have taken place, in some cases for electoral purposes and electoral gains. There are major geographical changes in the city of Dublin and in Galway but because of the minimal changes we have in the country I do not wish to return to them. I am not capable of dealing with the changes on a geographical basis within the greater Dublin area. I wish to point out to the Minister the present system of rating that we have as regards one county and another, the different charges between counties Meath and Mayo, where the rates which the people in Mayo are paying as against the people in Meath on the good land are sizeable. The variation that exists from county to county on the rate adopted each year by the various councils is so varied that that is the first type of reform that the Minister must tackle.
In the early sixties County Mayo made a case nationally for equalisation of rates. On that occasion the then councillor who moved it, Councillor Owen Hughes, prepared a document and submitted it to the Minister of the day. That document in its own right indicated the severe imbalance that obtained between counties. Why is it that a ratepayer in Mayo, this year has to pay over £30 in the £ in rates whereas a ratepayer in County Meath gets away with £18 to £20? I have not got the exact figures but everybody knows there are statutory figures and figures for the various counties. It is wrong to ask the people of Mayo to pay over £30 in the £ in rates when the ratepayers in other counties where there is better land and better facilities pay only £18 to £20. This imbalance is brought about by a variety of causes, the main one being the land valuation. Because of the poor type of soils there, County Mayo has lower valuation than obtains in more fertile counties. Therefore, in County Mayo it is not possible to obtain the maximum recoupment of finances.
Ratepayers under £20 valuation in Mayo were exempted prior to the abolition of rates and adjustment of the agricultural grant. As a result of the abolition of rates counties with higher valuations got a bigger input of capital than counties with lesser valuations, such as Leitrim and Sligo. All the 12 western counties got the same treatment. That is an unfair system to have in operation. The imbalance was exacerbated as a result of the abolition of rates. In agricultural grants at present we are getting less than we were getting prior to the abolition of rates in 1976.
As I have said on many occasions in the Seanad, abolition of rates was continued on domestic dwellings and agricultural land. It was a continuation of Fine Gael policy. They had at that time taken a quarter of the rates away and we continued to remove the remainder. They were doing it on a phased basis. People forget. For political reasons and otherwise it has been said up and down the country by Fine Gael people that Fianna Fáil removed the rates on domestic dwellings and agricultural land. They did not. Fianna Fáil carried on the policy that was initiated by Fine Gael when they removed a quarter of the rates on that occasion. It is no harm to remind the Labour Party of this.
The Minister told us here yesterday evening about the only financing that he has in mind. It is a complete laugh down the country. It is a complete laugh to every farmer that I know and, of course, it will never happen — the adjusted acre crusade that we are now embarking on.
We think that the Land Commission have been abolished because when I ring them up and ask them what they are doing now they say that they are awaiting directions from Dublin as to what their next move will be. They really do not know what they should be doing. Of course, they are doing nothing. It is no fault of the Land Commission that they are doing nothing. They have been abolished. They do not know where they are going from now on. They are the people who, with An Foras Talúntais and ACOT, will do the adjusting under the adjusted acre scheme.
What will be the result of the adjusted acre scheme in County Mayo? I want to tell the Minister that whatever imbalance there is in regard to rates, there will be much greater imbalance in the western counties as a result of the adjusted acre system that is now mooted to finance local authorities. It will take at least 10, 15, 20, 30 or 100 acres of land in Mayo to make one adjusted acre whereas in County Meath one acre will adjust to one acre. Where they get one acre payment in Meath it will take 100 acres in Mayo to make the same contribution to the rates system and to the financing of local authorities. There will be a much greater imbalance. Of course, it will never happen. I will put my political career on it that it will never happen. It cannot happen because of the variation in land, region, terrain, turbary rights et cetera. The Minister knows that it will not happen.
This is a system of financing that has been brought in as a stop gap. I understand that the Government say they will reform local government and that they must make an attempt at some reform because they face the people again. The imbalance in valuation cannot be corrected under the adjusted acre system. We will end up with a situation that the 12 western counties will get less to finance their services and the people in those counties will get poorer. In Munster and Leinster, where there is better land, acres will adjust acre per acre as against acre per 100 acres or maybe 1,000 acres on the hills of Mayo, Donegal and Kerry. I do not know how they will make the adjustment in the poorer regions. There is no way it can be done effectively. The system outlined in the Bill for financing local authorities will not work and will result in greater imbalance than exists at the moment.
The Minister indicated the amount of money being paid to local authorities from the Exchequer each year as being in the region of £1,400 million. One would imagine that that came about since Deputy O'Brien became Minister of State and since Deputy Kavanagh became Minister. This is an ongoing thing. It is not at all in keeping with inflation or the expansion of services or with the requirements of local authorities. That is why Mayo County Council has been brought to court by the Western Health Board. That is why we owe the Office of Public Works some thousands of pounds. We are not getting sufficient grant aid to run the services of the county.
I want to give a few statistics about the contribution Mayo makes to the Exchequer. This year Mayo will pay £1 million in PRSI; £1.5 million in PAYE; £4 million in motor taxation; £250,000 in ESB rates and in VAT roughly £3 million. We received a bill for £1 million from the Western Health Board and another bill for £1 million from the Office of Public Works. The total bill for the Office of Public Works for the entire country is £5 million. Mayo is billed by the Office of Public Works this year for one-fifth of that, so we are paying one-fifth of the national requirement. I want to repeat that for the Minister. The total bill for the Office of Public Works nationally is £5 million and Mayo is paying one-fifth of that, one-fifth which is a recurring expenditure for the maintenance of the Moy drainage, the Robe-Mask and various other drainage commitments within the county. That imbalance should be tackled in local government reform. There is not a word about it. The Minister could not care less. The same applies to the Department of the Environment. There is no indication in the Minister's speech of legislative proposals to redress the imbalance that exists.
We have to pay the Committee of Agriculture £45,000 and we have to pay the Vocational Education Committee. I want to say to the Minister that I am very disappointed and that something will have to be done regarding this imbalance. Mayo and other coastal counties do not have the secondary network that exists in the internal hub of the country. There are criss-cross primary roads running through the midland counties. Where counties touch the sea and where the national primary road just touches Mayo on the east and a small portion of Sligo, Roscommon and Galway a system of grant-in-aid on a block basis would be desirable. If a county council get a national block grant each year they say to the county manager, this is your block grant and live within this. It could start on a base, and there could be a percentage increase every year in accordance with inflation on a continuing basis. Let the county manager be responsible for the county road system, for housing, for sanitary and all the services within the county within that block grant. He could make up the difference in charges for services within the system in the county.
With the system we have today, if one is doing a group scheme in County Mayo, one has to apply for the grant from the Department. Grants are specified and proportionate to the local contribution. If the county council wish to subvent a group scheme they must apply for sanction to the Department. Every day county councils are applying to the Department of the Environment in Dublin for sanction for schemes the Department know nothing about, which have been processed by the technical field staff. Engineers, members, managers and the whole administration are involved in any scheme within a county. They have to sit tight and wait until some buck chief in Dublin with a brass hat, who possibly does not know where Mayo is but saw it on a map, decides to agree to the scheme because Mayo is a poor county but to hold it up for nine months, 18 months, two years. If the Government are not going well politically and if the financial constraints are tougher than they should be the scheme may be deferred to 1986. It is then decided to send a letter informing the local authority that there will be a stop gap situation until they apply again for sanction. This is the situation that one experiences day in day out.
That system should be abolished. The Minister for the Environment should give a block grant to local authorities, get a base to start on in accordance with the financial base of the county, start a new local government reform and give the county a percentage increase every year in accordance with national inflation. Let the manager live within his means within the county. Let him run his county without any dictation from civil servants who do not know what they are talking about on the ground. The officials who run local authorities do a very good job. The members of the local authority hold a watching brief over their activities. I see nothing wrong with the system internally within the counties. I see a lot of duplication as between county councils and Dublin. I would like to see that duplication abolished. I am speaking as an individual representing one county. Every Fine Gael and Labour councillor who has sat on a local authority down through the years knows that I am speaking the truth. It is up to the Minister to introduce the necessary legislation. Members have to be whipped into line to vote for this Local Government (Reorganisation) Bill, 1985. I know the political system that operates. Members will be coming through the Tá and the Níl lobbies just because they are affiliated to a party. Outside, when the vote is over, they will tell me that I was right about the system that should be in operation. They are not stupid. They have to face the people in June and they know what is good for their respective counties. There is nothing in the Bill regarding local government reform. The system of financing by adjusted acres that it is proposed to put into operation will not see the light of day in our time or in the time of any Minister. It is non-operational. Any scientist or practical man who has an interest in the agricultural base of the State will say there is no way this system can be implemented. I appeal to the Minister. He has time on his hands, because he is bringing in only a phase of adjusted geographical territory. He will have an opportunity of bringing in a Bill that will suit the requirements of all local authorities.
The Minister should be able to read between the lines. He should consult his backbenchers and county councillors before bringing in reform legislation. The local government system should be examined with a view to the efficient running of local authorities. The Minister must remember that managers are frustrated. They have been given greater powers but greater powers do not solve the problem if people do not pay for services. One cannot extract blood from a turnip. We are finding it very difficult to collect fees for services. The people are overburdened and the whole system is wrong. Each county should have its own identity and should be financed in accordance with requirements, starting with a base that can be easily adjusted each year in accordance with inflation without political interference from any Minister.
I favour district councils in some of the bigger counties. I know from my own experience in local government that we travel night after night to local community councils and various other councils set up within the community, to identify their problems and requirements. Under the new reform the Minister should think of introducing district councils within large geographical areas that would eliminate the community councils that we know of at the moment, some of them usurping the authority of public officials and elected public representatives. They are not elected by the people and they make a lot of noise from time to time. They may have cases to make and at least they identify the problems within the area. That should be the responsibility within an electoral area or some area of a workable size. People could be elected to that district council and could screen and examine the requirements within that district and then submit them to the parent body, the local county council, where the problems could be heard, solved and financed and projects put into operation.
It is very hard to bring in a system that will operate throughout the whole of the State and for that reason I would ask the Minister to think of a separate identity within each county. The system that is in operation does not work and the system the Minister has outlined, which will never come into operation, would give the same imbalance. The Minister should talk to his own councillors. They are long experienced in the field of local government. They have the same problems as I have in Mayo. I think that they will advise the Minister as to the best local government reform for the various counties throughout this State.