I do not like to interrupt the Minister but I have a request, under Standing Orders that I must reply to within the hour. It came to me at 2.30 p.m. in the name of Senator Lanigan. Senator Lanigan has given me notice under Standing Order No. 29. I call on Senator Lanigan.
Request under Standing Order 29.
I wish to move a motion on the Adjournment of the Seanad on a specific and important matter of public interest, requiring urgent consideration, the matter being, the announced closure of St. Dympna's Hospital, Carlow, and seven other hospitals under the direct control of the Minister for Health. The reason why I raise this matter at this time is that it is the only way in which the Seanad can debate something which is of urgent importance. I would not be bringing this matter before the House today but for the fact that last evening on television the Minister for Health virtually declared that one of the reasons why he was going ahead with this and other closures and the possibility of changing the number of health boards from eight to five was the attitude of politicians throughout the country to his Department and indeed to the health boards and to the administration of health matters in the country. He does not give rational reasons why he picked the specific hospitals mentioned. I do not want this to get into the party political arena, but in all fairness there is within the whole area of psychiatric care now the fear that hospitals can be closed on ad hoc decisions by the Minister without consultation with not alone the administrators of the health boards, the trade unions——
The Senator is making a speech that is completely out of order. I ask the Senator to resume his seat.
I respect the Cathaoirleach's ruling. Standing Order No. 29 is the only way we can bring forward matters of urgency in this House, since we do not have Question Time and extended motions on the Adjournment. Anything that is a matter of urgency can only come to this House on an adjournment motion, which has to be dealt with in half-an-hour. This House should not be treated in this way. If there is a need, it must be either to change this Standing Order or change the way we can deal with matters of urgent public interest.
(Interruptions.)
Not having heard you, a Chathaoirligh, I would suggest that we have an urgent meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges so that matters such as this can be raised in this House and that this House can be relevant on a day-to-day basis, just as the other House is.
I have given careful consideration to the matter raised by Senator Lanigan. I do not consider it to be a matter contemplated by Standing Order No. 29. I regret, therefore, I have to rule it out of order. An tAire to continue.
(Interruptions.)
Is there any way we can have a discussion on this motion? It is a very serious problem? The facts are not obviously known.
The machinery is there in Standing Orders.
Could I suggest to the Deputy Leader of the House that we take this very urgent matter first here in the morning?
The Senator cannot discuss it. There is machinery within the House.
What about the patients in the hospitals who are going to be out on the roads next week?
That is not true. The Leas-Chathaoirleach is aware that patients will not be out on the road next week. Let us discuss this in a non-political way, and not in the context of throwing the patients on to the road. That is what is happening in this debate.
On a point of information, in considering this matter, has the Minister taken into consideration that many Senators and many people in the country feel that this drastic step is only the tip of the iceberg and that we are afraid that something more drastic and radical will happen later?
That is not a point of order.
We have a second Cathaoirleach sitting down now.
(Interruptions.)
An tAire to continue.
As one who is particularly interested in one hospital that is being closed as a result of the proposal of the Minister, I would ask that special consideration be given to this question and that time be set aside to allow urgent discussion on the matter, as it requires.
As I said, the Whips have machinery to deal with this matter. If they come and talk to me I will accommodate them in every possible way. I might mention there is a motion on the Adjournment for tomorrow evening on the hospital the Senator is referring to.
It is only a half-hour, and a half-hour is not appropriate to the importance of this matter.
The whole system of Standing Orders will have to be changed. Do not blame me for it, it is there.
For Senator de Brún's information and for the information of the House, it is not the Minister for Health who is closing the hospitals, but the Government and it is collective responsibility of the Government which is closing the hospitals, in case anyone would walk away with the wrong impression.
An tAire.
As one who represents——
(Interruptions.)
I will adjourn the House — that is not a point of order. There is machinery within the House to deal with this.