Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Feb 1986

Vol. 111 No. 9

Business of Seanad.

An Cathaoirleach

I have notice from Senator John Browne, that on the motion for the Adjournment of the House today, he proposes to raise the following matters:

The proposed closure of St. Dympna's Hospital, Carlow.

I also received notice from Senator Jimmy Deenihan of the following matters:

The need for the Minister for Education to make provision for the Cappanalea outdoor centre in Killorglin, County Kerry, which is threatened with closure.

I also received notice of another matter from Senator Deenihan as follows:

The urgent need for the Minister for Education to sanction proposals for (i) the new School, Scoil Mhiceasmainn, Tralee, County Kerry and (ii) the extension of Coolard National School, Listowel, County Kerry.

I also received notice from Senator Jim Higgins of the following matter:

The need to drain the Holymount River and thereby alleviate the hardship caused to farmers by the flooding of 430 acres of excellent land.

I also received notice from Senator Katharine Bulbulia of the following matter:

The growing crisis in the Philippines and the urgent need for the Minister for Foreign Affairs to use every available means to promote peace and political stability in that country.

I also received notice from Senator Brendan Howlin of the following matter:

The need for the Minister of State for the Arts to direct the Arts Council to continue their support for the Wexford Festival Opera.

I regard the matters raised by Senators Browne, Deenihan and Higgins as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment. I regret I have to rule that the matter raised by Senator Howlin is not suitable for discussion on the Adjournment on the ground of lack of official responsibility. I have also to disallow the matter raised by Senator Bulbulia as not now being appropriate to be raised on the Adjournment. I have selected Senator Browne's motion for today's Adjournment and it will be taken at 8 p.m. to 8.30 p.m. or earlier if the business ordered is concluded. Senators Deenihan and Higgins may give notice for another day of the matters they wish to raise.

Mr. Lanigan

I think there is a misuse being made of this House. There has been enough misuse of this House by various elements in the media over the last number of weeks. I raised the matter of the closure of two hospitals here. I asked for an Adjournment debate in the Seanad so that we could have a proper discussion on the closure of the hospital in Carlow and the hospital in Castlerea and we were ruled out of order on one occasion and we were voted out. I had an arrangement made with the Whip that we would have a three-hour debate on the hospitals and because of some problem that arose in Government circles we were not allowed that three-hour debate. Now we are going to be fobbed off with a half-hour debate on the closure. It is disgraceful that this ruling has been made. I am not blaming the Chair.

I want the closure of St. Dympna's Hospital to be raised in this House. I want it to be properly debated but we are frustrated in this House because a vote was taken. The Cathaoirleach would not, on advice, allow that this House be adjourned to discuss these closures. Last week there was a vote taken and the debate on the closure was turned down by vote. Now we have a half-hour debate on a matter of extreme urgency. I would ask the Chair that if this debate takes place this evening it be an open-ended debate and that it not be confined or else we will not agreee at all to it.

An Cathaoirleach

I can see the Senator's point certainly but he raised the question under Standing Order 29. I had no alternative according to the Standing Order but to rule it out of order. It is in order for a debate on the Adjournment but not in order under——

Mr. Lanigan

Sorry, I do not want to dispute the point, but can you read out Standing Order 29 and tell me where under No. 29 you should have ruled it out of order.

An Cathaoirleach

I shall talk to the Senator in my office at any time about it.

Mr. Fallon

May I make the observation that Item No. 41 on the Order Paper states precisely what is going to be discussed in this matter. Something on an Order Paper should get precedence over something being taken on the Adjournment. It does not seem right that something that appears legitimately on the Order Paper should be interfered with, upstaged — call it what you like — by something for the Adjournment.

An Cathaoirleach

I have no control over what debates will take place or when motions will be taken. That is a matter for the machinery of the House.

Professor Dooge

On the point that Senator Fallon has made, that just because their motion No. 41 is on the Order Paper this gives it some sort of precedence: No. 41 can be taken on the next occasion when Fianna Fáil are entitled to put toward a motion in Private Members' time. That is the position. I want as Leader of the House to say that during the currency of this Seanad the Opposition have had far more opportunity than on previous occasions to bring forward motions of this type. Merely putting a motion down on the Order Paper does not give any entitlement other than that it will be taken in its turn.

An Cathaoirleach

I am going to end this discussion very soon. Senator Bulbulia has a point to make.

Mrs. Bulbulia

In the matter of the motion that I submitted on the Philippines — of course I do not want to quarrel with your ruling — I would like to make the point that I consider it was a proper use of parliamentary time in that this was an event of international significance. It has not been debated in either House of the Oireachtas. So I used the mechanism open to me to raise it on the Adjournment. Happily that matter is resolved. It has certainly proved to all here that a week is a long time in politics.

An Cathaoirleach

I cannot have further discussion on this.

Mrs. Bulbulia

I am sure Senators will wish to have their good wishes conveyed to the new President of the Philippines, Mrs. Cory Aquino.

Mr. B. Ryan

I cannot help wondering about the state of relations in the Government parties when all the issues on the Adjournment are being raised by supporters of the Government. Have they no means of communication with the Minister other than to raise matters on the Adjournment in the Seanad?

Professor Dooge

All Senators have rights of access to Ministers.

Mr. Howlin

I would like to seek your guidance on a matter. Of course I accept your ruling on my motion on the removal of funding for Wexford Festival Opera. What I want is your guidance on how I can bring up this matter. It is of extreme urgency. The decision was announced arbitrarily a fortnight ago. The festival must have funding within the next six weeks if it is going to take place in 1986. This particular festival has been built up with the hard work of Wexford people over 30 years. It would be appalling if this showcase of Ireland were destroyed by the action of the Arts Council. I seek your guidance on how to have a proper debate on it.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator may put down a motion and it can be debated in the House. There is no way I can take it.

Mrs. Honan

Senator Howlin is talking about how important the arts are. The Leader of the House has told us it will be our turn next — in a month's time. At the rate the Minister for Health is going, he will have all the hospitals closed down in a month's time.

Mr. Lanigan

I do not want to appear unreasonable but we are not going to accept that you turn down a debate. A three-hour debate on the closure of hospitals was turned down. What will happen this evening is that Senator Browne will come in and make his suggestion about Carlow and tell another few fables — I am surprised he is not here since it is his motion — and the Minister for Health will get a chance to reply that it is Government policy, which is rubbish.

Mr. Harte

First of all, in regard to your ruling under Standing Order 29, most of us understand how impartial you are in these matters. We should accept that. With regard to the question of the motion, there is some danger when we talk about motions on the Adjournment and also in the way the Fianna Fáil motion is put down — I agree that there should be a full debate as soon as possible — that other things that happen in the health area, such as buildings being opened would be ignored by just dealing with closures.

Mr. Mullooly

If Senators on the other side of the House are serious in the desire to have a proper discussion on the closure of both St. Dympna's Hospital in Carlow and St. Patrick's Hospital in Castlerea, then the way to do it is not by a half-hour motion on the Adjournment. I would suggest that rather than have the half-hour motion on the Adjournment that we should have one-and-half-hours this evening and one-and-a-half hours on next Wednesday evening on the motion that is there.

An Cathaoirleach

That is not a matter for me but for the machinery of the House.

Mr. Mullooly

But Senator Connor was allowed in on the Adjournment on the closure of Castlerea hospital and Senator Browne is allowed in this evening on the closure of St. Dympna's Hospital in Carlow. I was just as anxious about Castlerea as Senator Connor was and yet on the evening that Senator Connor raised the matter on the Adjournment I did not manage to be allowed to make any contribution that evening, except to support the sentiments expressed by Senator Connor.

An Cathaoirleach

I think I was very generous that evening.

Mr. Mullooly

But I still think we should have a full debate——

An Cathaoirleach

The Leader of the House on the Order of Business.

Mr. Lanigan

Could I have an answer as to why we were turned down on the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order 29 on a matter of public urgency — which it was?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Cassidy

Are you closing the Order of Business discussion?

An Cathaoirleach

No. We must hear the Leader of the House on the Order of Business before you can ask any question.

Mr. Cassidy

Is he winding up?

An Cathaoirleach

No. We will call the Senator afterwards.