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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 1986

Vol. 112 No. 10

Finance Bill, 1986: (Certified Money Bill): Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Before I reported progress I was speaking about VAT on hurleys. The amount of money lost to the Exchequer as a result of an exemption of hurleys from VAT would be very small in relation to total VAT revenue. All that would accrue according to the GAA calculation, is £350,000 from an annual sale of 100,000 adult hurleys and 150,000 juvenile hurleys. The GAA are making a very reasonable case with regard to VAT on hurleys and also to rates on their property. The issues involved are not of major importance in relation to the total revenue. They are, of course, of major importance to the GAA. It is felt that the GAA have a justifiable case. Action should be taken on their behalf and there are a number of precedents for treating our native games in a special way. I understand that the Finance Act of 1927, the Finance Act of 1932 and also the budget of 1980 exempted hurleys. As I pointed out, before I reported progress, hurleys are different from other sporting commodities. We are not interested in VAT being removed from other goods such as footballs. Hurleys are a necessity for our national game. We want to see it developed. They can be broken easily, unlike other sports items. The GAA have played a major part, a very vital and important role in the community life of this country. After the tragedy of the Civil War when brothers were fighting against brothers, it was the GAA who united these families at that time and united the community. The GAA, at present, are developing community live through the promotion of their games and especially by way of the provision of playing fields and amenities for the social benefit of the community.

I should like to see VAT being removed from hurleys. Directives issued by the EC support the GAA case in that exceptions may be made in the case of cultural bodies or non-profit making organisations in the sporting sphere. The Sixth Council Directive of 17 May 1977 contains the following:

(1) childrens' or young peoples' education, school or university education, vocational training or retraining, including the supply of services and of goods closely related thereto, provided by bodies governed by public law, having such as their aim or by other organisations defined by the Member State concerned as having similar objects, (m) certain services closely linked to sport or physical education supplied by non-profit making organisations to persons taking part in sport or physical education, (n) certain cultural services and goods closely linked thereto supplied by bodies governed by public law or by other cultural bodies recognised by the Member State concerned.

The GAA would definitely fall into the category of certain services closely linked to sport or physical education supplied by non-profit making organisations to persons taking part in sport or physical education.

Last year I tabled an amendment. Deputy Dukes was Minister for Finance on that occasion. I quote from the Official Report of 23 May 1985. The Minister said:

May I point out to Senator Kiely that I have reduced the rate of VAT on hurleys this year from 35 per cent to 23 per cent.

It has been increased this year from 23 per cent to 25 per cent. The Minister continued:

As I said earlier, the scope for the introduction of new zero rates is severely limited. In fact, it is not severely limited, it does not exist. What I did not point out to this House earlier on was the fact that I am already under a certain amount of pressure from the EC in relation to some of our existing zero rates.

That is contradictory to the Sixth Council Directive of 17 May 1977. I would like if the Minister would take that into consideration. I do not know what he can do at this stage, but it is something that is very important to the promotion of hurling and to the GAA.

I mentioned earlier the deposit interest retention tax. I said the GAA were anxious to meet the Minister. When he went out and Deputy O'Keeffe, the Minister of State came in, I presumed he was meeting the GAA. I hope he did meet them. If he did not, I would like to see him meeting them soon.

I will be meeting the GAA.

I hope you will have satisfactory discussions and that there will be a favourable result from them. I understand, and I am open to correction, that there is a deposit interest retention tax in other countries, and that voluntary organisations are exempt from it. Ireland is not the only country that this tax applies to.

Most other countries have what is known as a withholding tax. We are one of the few that has an actual retention tax.

I do not know whether it is a withholding tax or a retention tax, but I am told that in England it does not apply to voluntary organisations.

A withholding tax essentially involves refunds of tax to people who are not liable which our system does not, except in the case of over 65 year olds.

I would like to point out to the Minister and to the House the great work the GAA are doing for the promotion of our national games and for community life, especially at a time like this when we have so many unemployed. They can utilise their leisure time in the GAA fields and not in other spheres.

I was at the GAA congress this year and I hope to be there many more years. I have Dr. Loftus's address and I would like to quote from page 15 of it:

May I ask, if the GAA were, somehow, to disappear tomorrow, how would the State cope?

He is referring of course to the provision of community centres of which throughout there is one in nearly every parish and to the other amenities provided by the GAA. This is something that must be recognised by the authorities, acknowledged and appreciated. Dr. Loftus continues:

May I ask, in that event, what increased proportions would a budget for the Minister for Sport assume? As a small example may I instance that we are now paying almost £1 million in public liability insurance.

This year, the GAA have their own public liability insurance and they intend putting that on deposit. That is now subject to a 35 per cent rate of tax. It means that they will not have adequate money to cover their public liability.

I answered that in the Dáil at some length. I have to say, with the indulgence of the Chair, that the Gaelic Athletic Association should have a look at the way they dispose of their funds to see whether, in fact, the way they are using them at the moment is the best from the point of view of minimising their tax liability.

I am familiar with the GAA. They are very concerned about the DIRT tax. I am delighted to hear that the Minister is meeting them. They were hoping to meet him today. They were disappointed that they did not see him as they thought the Finance Bill was concluding in the other House today.

I am listening to the Senator instead of the GAA but I am sure the arguments are the same.

Dr. Loftus continued:

Is it not time to face the truth and admit facts? It is bad enough to have our enormous community contribution taken for granted by successive governments. It is quite another matter when they put a levy on the facilities which we provide, almost altogether from self-finance, for our community on behalf of the State.

I call on Dáil Éireann to end this injustice forthwith. Indeed, in all justice, we should not have to ask. The practical commitment to real patriotism which is freely made by the GAA should be recognised by all politicians. We do not want to be compelled to make public demonstrations but if we are compelled, then the option is made for us and this we shall do. We shall leave our politicians in no doubt as to our deepest resentment in this continuing vexation.

These are strong words. Last year the Munster Council protested about this. It was something that, as a member of the council, I did not agree with. There is always a great relationship between the GAA and politicians. Several members of this House are ex-Presidents of the GAA. I refer to the late Dan O'Rourke of Roscommon who was President of the Association, the late Seán McCarthy of Cork who was another President, the late Bob Aylward of Kilkenny who was President of the Leinster Provincial Council, Senator Andy O'Brien, who was President of the Ulster Council, Denis Gallagher, a Member of the Dáil who was President of the Connacht Council, Seán Browne, former TD who was chairman of the Wexford County Board; Jack Fitzgerald, former Senator who was Chairman of the Meath County Board. The former Taoiseach, Jack Lynch, won All-Ireland medals in both hurling and football; there is Jim Deenihan; there is Seán Flanagan who won All-Ireland football medals; there is John Donnellan, Minister of State at the Department of Forestry, Séamus Kirk, Noel Treacy, Jim Tunney and the future Taoiseach's brother — Pádraic (Jock) Haughey, who won All-Ireland medals.

It would be very sad for all of these people and for politicians — and I am sure Senator Browne opposite is very interested in the GAA — to see any rift between politicians and the GAA. It would be very foolish for the sake of £350,000 if such a rift should occur. This is what the VAT on hurleys means to the Exchequer. The association are doing tremendous work for the youth of this country especially in creating parochial spirit and community life. They provide amenities for the public which the Government would otherwise have to provide. I would like if the Minister could do something about VAT on hurleys and the DIRT tax.

Senator Hourigan mentioned diversification. I would like to see diversification from products which are overproduced. In this context I would like to say that farmers should be encouraged to take on afforestation on marginal land. I did not see any provisions for it in the Finance Bill. It is most necessary as was pointed out in the debate prior to this. Timber is imported into the EC and Ireland. We have the resources in this country to produce such timber. It should be a priority in any Government programme to ensure that we have proper afforestation.

Nuair a labhair mé anseo cúpla bliain ó shin, dúirt mé muna mbeadh cáinaisnéis againn nach mbeadh aon cháin le n-íoc againn agus ní raibh mé i ndáiríre, caithfidh mé a admháil. Muna mbeadh cáin againn ní bheadh aon airgead ag an Rialtas agus tá airgead ag teastáil ón a lán daoine sa tír seo. Caithfimid cur suas le cáinaisnéis bliain i ndiaidh bliana, agus an bhliain seo d'éirigh leis an Aire anseo cáinaisnéis a thabhairt isteach a thug cothrom na Féinne do gach éinne. D'éirigh leis faoiseamh a thabhairt do na daoine atá ag íoc cáin ioncaim.

While we all complain that income tax if far too high, I notice that the Opposition are very much repeating the idea that we have crippling income tax and so on, we have promises that the basic rate will be reduced to a fraction. All of that is fine, if, in actual fact, we are going to balance it by not giving the services that are required. I find it difficult, as a politician, to hear some of my colleagues talking about giving big reductions in taxes and at the same time proposing no cuts at health board level. The impression seems to be that taxes can be cut and at the same time services can be supplied.

In fairness to the public this is double talk which we could do without. It might appear that everything is rosy after a couple of years of hardship and cut-backs. We could ruin ourselves by trying to spend what we have not got. We are trying to pretend that we can carry on without tax. I would love to see a reduction in tax. I am well aware that individuals are paying too much tax. There is no reward for people who work long hours of overtime or private individuals who put a lot of time and effort into making profit. They are penalised by having to pay tax especially if they see people abusing our system.

I hope that in the next budget, before we return to office, the Minister for Finance will be bringing in those reductions in a realistic way and that the Minister will not have to make many cut-backs in order to do it. We have to keep services going. We have to face reality. I am glad this year that he has set about it by widening the tax bands. He has reduced the 60 per cent band down to 58 per cent. It might seem little to the individual taxpayer but when these cuts are applied right across the population of income taxpayers, obviously it means a big drop in income. People might say that those who are in the 60 per cent band are the ones to be pitied but, on the other hand, if there is a 40p in the £ return it is not much for those who are supposed to be earning a lot of money, and for many of those on the 35 per cent it is also difficult. Ministers, especially the Minister for Finance, have difficult choices. We are all eager to make special concessions and we can argue why certain people should get concessions but we seldom come in and give the Minister an idea where he can get extra money.

On one occasion I said that Ministers for Finance should be treated in the same way as the Ceann Comhairle, who is automatically re-elected. The Minister for Finance has to take a great deal of personal abuse——

Two elections running, not just one.

——no matter what party he belongs to. We must be very fair. Every Minister for Finance gets the blows; the Government generally take the credit for what goes right.

It was very appropriate that Senator Kiely who wound up on the forestry debate before 8 o'clock and encouraged everyone to grow timber should immediately take over on the debate on the budget and talk about the use of ash for hurleys. He got the case across very nicely and very pleasantly and I am sure the Minister had to be impressed by him. I would love to think that this Government was the Government that put an end to talking about VAT on hurleys because anybody involved with juveniles or a senior hurling club will realise that hurleys are very expensive and they can break very quickly. At one stage I was arguing with a person who said that golf clubs cost a lot more and there is a lot more VAT on them. I would suggest that unless you are a nut case playing golf and every time you hit a ball you get a slice and lose your temper and you wrap it round the caddy car those golf clubs will last you for your lifetime. Even if you grow a bit taller than you were starting off there is no problem. Hurleys do not last. I can well imagine the Limerick boys pulling against the Clare lads and if they ever meet Carlow they will be in trouble because they are on the up as well and Meath are not too bad at hurling, so the Minister will have a special interest in this. I think it would be a nice claim for the Minister to have——

We are on to football now.

Footballs last a long time, hurleys do not. It is a very expensive sport to be involved in. It is our native game and we should be prepared to make an exception for our native game, especially when it is in danger of dying. Young lads get very disappointed if they pay even at a reduce price, for a hurley even if it is subsidised by the club. They give their Confirmation money to buy a hurley and it might break in the first clash. I would love the Minister in the next budget, to see that hurling gets that concession. Every sports group can make a case for all kinds of exemptions and relief but I would not push some of the other things. We have to take our share of these things.

I know that every Minister for Finance would probably like to finish up with one rate of VAT and a lot of shopkeepers would like it too if it could work. I know two people who gave up business simply because they spent so much time worrying about the VAT accounts that they could not tolerate it any more. Bigger businesses are better geared but it is still difficult for them and they have to pay staff to do it. As a percentage of their time it is something that does not affect them as much but smaller shopkeepers who are in the bracket for tax have not the same facilities and it is difficult for them. Businesses are sometimes under pressure. Often they have the choice of being late with their VAT payments or maybe letting workers go. There are times when this is a genuine situation and the Revenue should take a reasonable line on it. I know there are people who will try to cod the system but a lot of people are genuine and it is a tough time.

I want to welcome the efforts to promote tourism by the reduction of VAT on food and cars, because all these things help to bring in tourists. If they feel they are getting good value for money then they will come. Tourism is one of the things that we should cash in on. The weather at the moment may not be appropriate for talking about tourism but I know well that under this Government the summer will improve as well. I do not want the Minister to make a commitment on that.

The reductions are very good. The rate on newspapers was reduced. I notice the prices are going up. I am sure it will not get headlines tomorrow in the paper. Without the reduction in VAT they may be gone out of existence but with VAT coming down it should be a help to many people. I am delighted about the VAT reduction in the cinema. I went to the Minister specially about that. I am not saying it was done because of that. Many small cinemas down the country were just barely ticking over and I know one in particular that was kept going because it was a form of benefit to the community and with the 10 per cent they are paying at the moment they will still be in trouble. At least it is a gesture of appreciation for what they are doing for the community. They could easily have closed and I was delighted that that reduction came. I hope that with petrol prices coming down, inflation coming down, interest rates coming down, all of these things will set the scene for a recovery that is now overdue if we do not keep rushing about and spending in advance.

I am glad of one other thing as well and that is the stamp duty on land transfer for farmers. That was a very good gesture. I know it was in longer than was planned originally but it will do a lot to encourage people to hand over land. While many of the old people were very good farmers, I think the younger farmers will have to get a chance and this is an encouragement to them. I know it was criticised today because extra hours were put in and the age was reduced but if you are given a concession it is no harm to ask for standards. In the long run we need the younger farmers to change a lot of our farming methods.

The Minister for Agriculture gave a figure when we joined Europe in 1973 that 80 per cent of milk production went into butter and we are still putting 80 per cent of milk production into butter. In Europe we are choc-a-bloc with every kind of commodity. It is good to see the younger farmers coming in. If they have done 150 hours of a course they will have new ideas.

Forestry was discussed earlier and how we are under-utilising land and how it could be used if people did not have to wait too long for an income but that is a different debate. It is something farming could change over to and it would avoid some of the butter mountains, milk mountains and corn mountains.

Many farmers are in trouble with money. They know about the Euro loans and it would be good to see the farmers getting a chance of Euro loans if they are in a position to avail of them and put them to use. While banks have to survive I have been shocked on a few occasions at the way farmers are being treated. I know of two cases of people who were genuinely paying back the banks. One farmer paid in over £20,000 when he sold his cattle and within a few days a cheque for £40 was stopped. I do not think that encourages farmers to continue making an effort. If neighbours hear that they will be more inclined to leave the bank waiting for money.

While banks have to survive and have to make profits they should take a very broad view of people who are trying to pay off their loans. There was also another case of a person who paid in over £5,000 when he sold his sheep and he discovered that his money supply was cut off by the bank within a few days when they had got in a certain amount. Farmers have to live in the meantime. If they pay in a lump sum they still have to survive and be able to buy food. It would be good if the Minister could help them by getting Euro loans at a lower rate and if the bank rate could come down in a way that they might not have to pay back as much. Perhaps I am asking for a lot to be done at the one time. It is a rough time, it was a rough summer, it is a rough spring and many farmers are not going around thinking about how they will spend the profit they have been making.

I am glad employment has been given a boost in the budget and especially the build-up to it where the PRSI exemptions managed to get in a couple of thousand jobs. This is what we really want. The more people we have working the more tax they will pay and the less will have to be paid out. I am glad to see that happening. I am glad that employment has been given a boost in the budget. The PRSI exemptions which managed to get in a couple of thousand jobs are welcome. This is what we really want. The more people are employed, the more tax will be paid and less money will have to be paid out by the State. I am glad to see that happening.

The black economy is causing quite a problem. The Government have to be complimented on insisting that in order to qualify for construction grants and so on, the work must be done by legitimate builders. The Minister is aware that many legitimate businesses are very concerned about the black economy. The suggestion was made some time ago — and I would like to repeat it — that tax concessions to those who have paid bills to legitimate garages or builders and so on would help to eliminate those working outside the system. We are losing doubly in the black economy. The State does not get tax or VAT from those who are earning and who very probably are drawing unemployment benefit also.

I understand full well that the deposit interest retention tax was introduced because people are able to fiddle money. That was the reason behind it. I would worry that it might catch, say, widows, who are living on investments. It has been said to me that they can juggle money around. I am not so sure. If somebody is getting 10½ per cent on their investment and have no other income the 35 per cent deposit interest retention tax will mean a reduction in income. It does not give a fair crack of the whip to say, a widow with three dependent children. I hope that later on we will be talking about that. Cases are being made for everyone and anyone and it is difficult. We would want to examine that matter. I do not know the full details. I have asked for them. I would certainly look forward to raising the question of that tax. There are exemptions. I can guarantee the Minister will not have to listen to me when he returns from the division in the Dáil. Tá mé críochnaithe. I know that this time next year we will be complimenting the Minister on having carried out all the things we asked him to do.

Sitting suspended at 8.35 p.m. and resumed at 9 p.m.

In his opening speech in the Dáil the Minister for Finance, Deputy J. Bruton, said that the Government's role is to provide the best possible environment for growth and to provide special incentives where appropriate. I could not agree more with him in that regard. He correctly identified the disturbing consequences of high taxation which include boosting the black economy, adding an incentive to evade taxation and encouraging the practice of payment through "benefit in kind" so as to avoid high marginal tax rates. However, what is particularly disappointing is that the measures contained in this Finance Bill and in recent budgets do not address these problems in any adequate fashion at all. The continuing spate of business liquidations underlines the hostile climate for enterprise at a more general level. The thrust of economic policy should be positive, supportive and encouraging. The building and construction industry for example, so basic to our well-being, remains in a devastated state with half its workforce unemployed. Taxes, levies and restrictive legislation are forcing employers to pursue retrenchment instead of expansion programmes.

We are all agreed that the most pressing economic and social problem facing the country is unemployment. What is needed, therefore, is the dismantling of incentives against investment for employment and development. Instead of encouraging people to save and thereby to make funds available for investment in the private sector, the Government, in effect, and I refer in particular now to the DIRT tax, are penalising savers and thereby reducing the inflow of deposits into the financial institutions. I will return to this point later.

In his opening address to the Seanad the Minister said, and I quote:

We gave a commitment at the outset to tax reform in our programme for Government.

He did indeed. The reform of the taxation system was one of the main proposals on which the present Coalition Government are elected in 1982. After three and a half years in office the Government's record on this very issue is frustratingly poor. The income and VAT changes in the Finance Bill are welcome, but they are entirely inadequate to meet the demands of present circumstances.

Tinkering with a tax band here or a section of business there is no answer to the reform to which the Government pledged themselves when taking office. What I am really getting at is that there is no evidence of a planned approach to the reform of the taxation system. The typical answer we hear is that a transformation of the basic tax structure could not be afforded because of the financial constraints on the Exchequer. The answer is not good enough. Indeed, this line of argument would seem to assume that the present tax system is not doing any harm. This is far from the case. The present tax system is harmful socially because it is divisive. Furthermore, the existing tax structure takes considerable time, effort and a lot of money to operate and what have we got to show for it? We have highly qualified people leaving the country because of the hostile tax regime. There is also evidence that some employees are choosing not to work overtime because the net gain after tax means that it is not worth the effort. Furthermore, there is evidence that very suitably qualified people are declining promotional positions because the net gain in pay after the promotion would not justify the taking on of additional responsibilities.

Complete rubbish.

The Minister may say it is complete rubbish but I can tell him that I have first hand knowledge.

It is designed to address those problems which the Senator is ignoring completely.

With regard to promotions the net take home pay is vital to the employee who may be offered the promotion.

This is the Finance Bill.

A two per cent reduction in the marginal rate is inadequate and I can tell the Minister I have first hand knowledge in a practical way in Irish industry of people turning down promotional positions because it is not worth their while in financial terms. This is a constructive contribution and I would like the Minister to take it in that spirit. The minor taxation changes in this year's budget will not solve our inefficient, inequitable taxation structure. What is needed is obvious. A transformation of the basic tax structure and this the Government have failed to do despite their election promises of taxation reform.

Let me give the House a specific illustration of a tax that is inequitable and that was introduced by the Minister's Government. The ad hoc approach to changes in taxation by this Government is illustrated very clearly by the poorly conceived income-related property tax. This tax flies in the face of equity and efficiency. It does not apply equally to all and it is calculated on a definition of income which is patently defective. Administrative time and effort is spent in collecting very small amounts. As I see it, the only rationale for this inequitable tax is that it constitutes a sop to the Labour Party. I would ask the Minister in all seriousness to repeal the property tax.

I now want to return to the taxation on financial services. The experience of other developed industrial countries is relevant. I wish to acknowledge and put it on the record that the Minister for Finance is very conscious of what goes on in other countries, considers policies in other countries and has in fact taken the lessons from some countries in some of the measures he has taken. I give him credit for that. In most developed industrial countries they recognise the importance of the contribution made by service industries to job creation. It is noteworthy that in the United States since 1970, 16 out of every 17 new jobs there have been in the services sector.

With almost 18 per cent of our labour force unemployed, we in Ireland should pay particular attention to service industries because they are labour intensive. Ireland has a well educated, skilled workforce. The qualifications of our workforce are required, especially in internationally traded areas of financial services and professional consultancy. The financial services sector, therefore, should be looked at very closely because of the great scope it offers for increased high quality employment. Ireland could become a major international financial services centre provided we create a suitable taxation and legal environment, both of which are under Government control.

Could I add an additional point in relation to our suitability for the location of an international financial services sector? I am a member of the Joint Committee on State Sponsored Bodies. We took evidence from Bord Telecom Éireann yesterday. The chairman of that board, Mr. Michael Smurfitt, stressed the point in the course of the evidence that Telecom is now fully equipped to provide the technological equipment and wherewithal to meet the requirements of an international financial services sector.

Financial services employment in this country amounts to about 45,000 people of whom 75 per cent are engaged in banking and insurance both of which are now subject to levies. The Finance Bill places a charge of 9 per cent on the gross investment income of life assurance companies, albeit for one year. In the case of the banks, the levy of £25 million continues in 1986. On the face of it, these levies look like taxing institutions. The reality is that these charges are a further tax on individuals, most of whom are within the PAYE sector. In the case of insurance companies the policy holders will have to pay the 9 per cent levy and in the case of the banks, employees and shareholders and, especially, customers will have to carry the can.

In the case of the bank levy both the Commission on Taxation and the Central Bank are on record as opposing the special levy. I would ask the Minister in a constructive spirit to play his part in ensuring that public policy recognises the role of the financial services industry in discovered that his money supply was cut growth and the provision of high added value, skilled employment. Supportive rather than discriminatory practices should, therefore, be adopted so that the industry can develop to the benefit of the entire national economy.

The retention tax on interest payments could adversely affect the entire banking system. With this new tax, pension funds might well be tempted to place money in gilts instead of on deposit and this would obviously reduce the ability of the banking system to lend to the productive sector of the economy, as returns on investment fall with falling inflation. We must welcome the trend of falling inflation. It seems inevitable that pension funds will substitute short term securities for deposits in the banking system. The retention tax will have an adverse effect on the cash flow of companies which are in receipt of deposit interest. Working capital and cash flow are the life blood of enterprises. This new tax could adversely affect working capital and cash flow. VAT on imports at the point of entry is another example of a serious imposition on working capital.

It is essential that Government should understand the role of working capital in job creation and in the retention of jobs. As a country we have a range of State institutions and services that help companies at their formative stage, for example, the IDA and CTT. We also have State services if a company is in serious trouble and about to go out of business, for example, Fóir Teoranta. We do not, however, it seems to me, have adequate support services for companies in between, during the main period of the life cycle. The retention tax in the Finance Bill goes in the opposite direction. It represents a further serious imposition on working capital and cash flow, the very areas that present trouble repeatedly for companies and contribute to their demise. I would ask the Minister, therefore, to consider the retention tax as a withholding tax which would be available for refund or for credit. Perhaps, he would respond to that when replying on Second Stage.

The Minister said in his opening speech that we are taking full advantage of the upswing. The retention tax will serve as a distincentive to the return of funds to the country despite the recent realignment in the currencies because of the threat of taxation. It is well-known that for many years past funds have literally flown out of the country. We need these funds back not least because of the contribution they would make to reducing interest rates. The retention tax is one further misplaced measure, I submit, which will discourage investment and enterprise.

I consider the Finance Bill very disappointing in the light of the urgent problems facing the country. The Minister, Deputy J. Bruton, has identified the critical role of taxation policy. I feel he has a very good grasp of the needs of the private sector and that is welcome. The Bill, however, does not go near meeting the measures required to restore confidence or to stimulate growth and development. The levies on financial services and the retention tax are serious disincentives at a time when Government should be doing everything possible to abolish disincentive against investment.

Like the other speakers on this side of the House I should like to unanimously endorse the sentiments of the Minister as set out in his opening speech. I should like to endorse also the general thrust of the Finance Bill. This is the fourth Finance Bill since this administration came into office. I recall that during earlier budget speeches and presentations of Finance Bill, the prophets of doom all forecasted each would be the last of this administration. Yet this administration has gone on and managed to baffle, bewilder and confound the critics. They have come through a very turbulent, a distinctly difficult time and have managed during that period to get the nuts and bolts of the economy right.

One of the aspects of the Minister's speech which was the central feature of the Finance Bill was the area of taxation. There is no question about it that there is unanimous agreement that the burden of taxation falls too heavily on a lot of people. To expect that there can be an instant overnight dramatic switch about and that you can automatically switch from one form of taxation to another without doing so on a phased, reasonable and gradual basis, is an unrealistic proposition.

I should like to compliment the Minister on bringing about some relief in the area of income tax. Last year we had the broadening of the tax bands and this year the top level has been reduced from 60p in the pound to 58p. Again although it might seem minimal to many the elimination of the 1 per cent levy on income is a welcome development. It shows that there is overall wholehearted commitment on the part of this administration and this Minister, to address, when finances permit, the whole issue of tax and income tax.

It is facile, simplistic and imbecilic to regard the business of tax redress, tax equalisation and tax equality without taking cognisance in addressing oneself to the fundamental problem of where the money comes from and how we achieve the redistributive desire and goal which everybody who would like to see. You cannot, on the one hand, advance policies which are seen to be the answer to everybody's ails and ailments without, on the other hand, meeting a consequent obligation of quantifying and spelling out the pounds, shillings and pence and the minutia of where that money must come from. This Government have shown a commitment to reform in that area. One hopes that many of the tenets of the Commission on Taxation will be adopted and that, before this administration goes to seek a renewal of its mandate, it will have furthermore and to a greater degree addressed the problem of equality of taxation.

The Minister stated that there is need for responsible harnessing of the upturn of our economic fortunes. There would seem to be a lull or an upswing, a lull in the recession and an upswing generally in the economy in economic trends here and elsewhere. When one looks at the Government's performance, one has to look back at the whole genesis of the problem we face today. One has to look at the record and the daunting task this Government were confronted with. One must realise that, on assuming office, the situation was that our credit rating abroad was so bad that the lending institutions were about to slam the door in our faces. We had little, if any, credibility. We were almost on the point of liquidation, if that is possible in a national sense. Agencies and arbitrators from outside could and would, and, indeed, were about to move in unless a determined, forward and responsible thrust was taken in relation to the economy.

One has to remember that, when taking office, this Administration was faced with an inflation rate of something in the region of 21 per cent. Our balance of payments was accepted in a defeatist sense as being an inevitable part of our overall economic make-up. We had unemployment racing madly in the direction of 200,000. We had agricultural incomes falling 40 per cent between 1978 and 1982. Basically, we had a whole disjointed economy. Yet in the teeth of such a daunting prospect and in the teeth of the worst recession that this country has ever faced, the Government have managed to hold the line. They have managed to repel the critics. They have managed to achieve an economic performance where our inflation rate has been cut to 4.5 per cent — this without the added bonus of the recent fortuitous fall in oil prices, which is a bonus on top of the hard slog used to achieve the inflation decline in the first place.

In a relatively short period of time the Government have managed to achieve a level of performance where our balance of payments, our trade figures for the first time since the war, are coming right. One notes with considerable optimism and a degree of satisfaction that the monthly returns and trends are very much on the positive side in that regard. Hopefully, the year end figures will be even better than last year.

Again, despite the many debilitating factors, the Government have managed to redress the problem of unemployment to an extent in that at last there has been achieved a gradual U-turn in relation to the statistics and figures. Again, agricultural incomes have grown during the Government's term of office and have managed to stabilise and to be maintained despite factors such as weather and other outside agents acting, which would seem to have a contrary effect. No matter how one sees the achievements of Government, and they have been considerable in that regard, the big millstone around this Administration's neck and around the neck of every John Citizen in the street out there is the foreign debt and the foreign borrowing. Irrespective of how we may try to delude ourselves into believing that we now have turned the corner in that regard, until such time as we meet our responsibilities in that regard, we are not out of the wood. There is no question whatever but that future generations will be left paying for the folly of the 1977-81 period, which was an unfortunate period. If one set out to discommode, disjoint or dismantle the economy deliberately, one could not have done so more effectively. It was a gamble that failed and failed miserably.

There are no easy solutions and no facile answers. When talking about the distribution of money or pumping or priming or generating money or stimulating the economy, one always has to address oneself to the central feature, where does one get it? Does one borrow, does one cut services or does one tax? In that regard the Government have faced up to their responsibilities and have pointed always clearly to where precisely the money has come from in order to originate schemes or to bring about reform in certain areas.

I should like to compliment the Minister on the manner in which he has managed, in this Finance Bill, to generate confidence, to stimulate growth and to bring about the necessary initiatives in the economy which, hopefully, will have a wholehearted and developmental and positive objective. One notes that in the area of employment the PRSI relief has had the desired and targeted effect. One notes that the Enterprise Allowance Scheme is being continued. Many people have derided that scheme but when one looks at the statistics and at the number of small enterprises which have been started and have managed to keep going under the scheme to date, it has been very satisfactory. Virtually all of the businesses involved are not alone managing to hold their own but in some cases have taken on additional employees. One notes with considerable satisfaction the imaginative thrust of the scheme.

The Social Employment Scheme when introduced, was derided in this House and in the other House and castigated as being nothing other than a stop gap measure, in order, as people said, to make some type of cosmetic redress of the unemployment figures. If you talk to people who have benefited from the scheme, you will find that many of them welcome the opportunity presented to them of again experiencing the dignity of work.

I want to compliment the Government and the Minister for Labour for recently bringing about an amplification of the scheme in the introduction of two levels, the married level of £85 and the single level of £70 and of bringing about the much needed innovation, that if somebody terminates a scheme having had one year's work he may, having registered as unemployed again, re-enter the scheme and avail of another year's work. It is a very healthy development. It is the type of thing we have been crying out for, the mobilisation of resources, the harnessing of resources and getting a return for money spent. It is the type of development that could be amplified and experimented with in the future.

Unquestionably, unemployment will be the big challenge of this and of every Administration. Without being defeatist or being accused of undue pessimism, it is as well to confront the fact that the days of full employment are gone. We have to target all our aims and objectives and plans towards achieving a reasonable level of employment and minimising unemployment. Full employment is an unrealistic expectation. That is a view that is shared by economies inherently stronger than ours.

The budget deficit in this Finance Bill is being phased down, as the Minister has said from 8.2 per cent GNP to 7.4 per cent. Of course, foreign borrowing is one of the major causes of our economic misfortunes. In the National Plan the aim was to achieve the softer target of 5 per cent. With the various other factors which came to bear on the economy, this was not possible. We commend the Government on their determination to phase out the budget deficit over a reasonable period of time, without wreaking undue hardship on the citizens, on the unemployed and on the various services which people have come to enjoy and benefit from.

In November of 1982 both of the major parties went to the country with two election platforms. On the one hand, we had the main opposition party with the plan The Way Forward. On the other hand, we had the Government's Joint Programme for Government. One must assume, from the overwhelming mandate given to both parties and the fact that the voters plumped largely for both parties, that there is an overwhelming political consensus among people to terminate borrowing for day to day purposes. It is, however, a difficult political reality to grasp. Based on the voting patterns and based on the joint objectives set down in both programmes, there would seem to be a mandate given to the Government to end the budget deficit. Over a 15 year period, over the term of jurisdiction of four Taoisigh and seven Ministers for Finance, it can be seen that it has escalated to its present proportion and one sees the whole scale and magnitude of the task.

There was an idea, for what it was worth, floated some time ago of a constitutional amendment making it mandatory to balance the budget. It is something that might be worth dwelling on again. The Constitution enshrines certain principles and values which have been endorsed by the people which might otherwise be let slip in a rash of political pressures. It puts a brake on rash actions, and would-be follies or the capacity sometimes to self destruct. The Constitution is there as a safeguard in this regard.

This Government have pledged themselves to phasing out the deficit over a period of time. Despite all the good intentions, on the other hand, when one is confronted with a whole spate of junk economics, as has been described recently, one has to look at the political realities. It would be better for everybody concerned if we had consensus on the need for a constitutional obligation on every administration to have a binding duty and have as its main plank enshrined in the Constitution the need to end deficit budgeting once and for all.

The Planning Board felt that Governments should smooth economic cycles by budgeting for deficits in bad times and matching surplus in good times. On the other hand, there is no difficulty in a time of need or in a time of political exigency in persuading politicians of the need to incur a deficit. It is an entirely different matter when it comes to reversing that deficit in due course.

This Government, by and large, have performed an economic miracle beyond the capacity of the imagination of most people. They have confounded the critics of doom. Unfortunately the perspective of the man in the street would seem to indicate that their efforts and achievements have not been largely understood or appreciated. When one looks at the statistics based on the achievements of this administration it can be seen that there is now a greater disposal income available to people. Living standards have increased. There is a national wage agreement of 7 per cent. There is a projected rate of inflation for the year at 2 per cent or it may even be possibly down to zero. Interest rates and mortgage rates are now at a level of 11 per cent as against 16 per cent and 17 per cent two years ago. A person with a mortgage of £24,000 has a net saving of £24 per week in his pocket without any constraints by way of tax deductions. That is a net gain. This is evidence of the achievement and track record of this Government.

Like many other people I very often fail to see that when the inflation rate is running at 2 per cent — and possibly there is no direct linkage as I am not an economist or a financial expert — why banking institutions cannot be more accommodating in relation to more favourable borrowing terms. Despite the fact that by and large, banks give a reasonable service, they operate a service that can be sometimes equivocated with that of providing somebody with an umbrella on a fine day and taking it from him on a wet day. Anybody who had the experience of having the banks offer money in flush quantities at certain times and then putting the jack-boot in unremittingly at difficult times will share basically the sentiments that I am espousing and expressing.

I compliment the Government that despite the various financial restrictions on them over the years, one category which have always managed to do well from this administration has been the social welfare class. As was recorded on the occasion of the Social Welfare Bill, the social welfare class were more than looked after in this budget in that the average increase of 4.5 per cent to 5 per cent for the long term unemployed will give these people a substantial tangible increase in their living standards.

The other innovations introduced by the Minister in the Bill are also to be welcomed — the tax treatment of stock options, the share option scheme and the emphasis on share ownership. I had the benefit of attending a dinner and listening to the Minister developing this point on the obvious consequent benefits of such schemes by way of improving the whole industrial relations scene and the encouragement of wider employee participation. The Minister has managed to develop the business expansion scheme with a record of £5 million in year one alone.

I welcome Chapter III of the Bill which emphasises the tax incentives for research and development. Unfortunately, it is an area in which we can record grave disappointment in relation to our performance. It is unfortunate that because of our tax regime it is very difficult to keep in Ireland people with technical knowledge. It is something that we will have to concentrate our attentions and resources on. It is one of the basic weaknesses of our whole industrial scene.

We are very grateful to foreign industries for establishing industries here and for the large component element they fill in relation to our employment figures. The manner in which they have invested shows confidence in this economy. It is a problem, nevertheless, that these industries, in many cases, are "torso" industries where the head and feet are one place and the decision-making voice is somewhere else. While they perform a very valuable role in our overall economic fabric and make-up, when it comes to a long term commitment they may not have the same commitment as native indigenous industries. It is an unfortunate pattern that sometimes they have been prone to uproot and go without any valid explanations as to their reasons for doing so. That is why I basically share the sentiments expressed in the Minister's address that research and development is an area in which we will have to concentrate on to a greater extent. It is an area that should be developed possibly at university level, as a satellite or an appendage to universities. An idea floated by the Opposition — and it might not necessarily be dismissed for that reason — was that of possibly having a Minister for Science and Technology. It is vital that we keep abreast of the most modern technological developments at home and more importantly, abroad.

The relief in areas of capital gains are to be welcomed. All of these developments announced by the Minister are stimuli to generate growth, confidence and private sector investment. One notes with considerable pride a number of the hidden success stories of Ireland. For example, Ballygowan Spring Water, Seery Biscuits, and the Flowers for Ireland Enterprise in Waterford, all of which in their own way have been successful. They have not received the degree of recognition that one might expect. They should be used and put forward as an inspiration for other would be investors and entrepreneurs.

One of the arguments that always seems to come most strongly from the Opposition benches is the idea that the construction industry must be primed at all cost. While everybody appreciates the employment content of the construction industry, it is, nevertheless, a fallacy and a myth to put it up front as being an economic generator in its own right. I always tend towards the view that the construction industry should be a response to economic growth, investment and economic performance. Therefore, it should be a gauge and a barometer of the economic climate and performance of the day.

This party nevertheless has not been found wanting in relation to its commitment. We have introduced more innovative schemes than any other administration in that regard. One recalls that one on the main planks of the infamous 1977 manifesto was the £1,000 new house grant. We have doubled that house grant. We have introduced a mortgage subsidy of £3,000. We have also introduced another imaginative scheme which has been working with spectacular success and that is the scheme for the encouragement of local authority tenants to build their own houses. It is now part of a package that if a local authority tenant of two years standing wishes to build his own house he can now get a £2,000 new house grant, a £5,000 dislodgment-moving grant plus £3,000 mortgage subsidy. In round figures there is a £10,000 non-repayable grant. There is also a £16,000 loan available at 11 per cent over 30 years or the option of a Housing Finance Agency loan of £22,500 or £25,000 in the case of a local authority tenant, at varying rates of interest depending on the ability of the person to repay. In that regard our record on this side of the House is a proud one and one that bears comparison with that of any other administration in the past. Without apology to anyone I make my observations in relation to the fallacy of providing money for money's sake or the construction industry's sake.

Section 101 of the Bill deals with the extension of the exemption on stamp duty for young farmers. This has been a very useful scheme. It is because of difficulties in relation to mobility and transfer of land that people have (a) run away from the prospect of transferring their land and (b) have run away from the prospect of paying out stamp duty in order to do so. The introduction of this general exemption for people who transfer land to a son under 35 years of age is a very welcome development. Statistics prove that overall there has been an acceleration of the transfer of land. Nevertheless we will never meet with the degree of success that we would like to see in this regard until such time as we introduce a proper and attractive retirement scheme. If somebody over 65 years of age transfers land, they qualify for the contributory pension or non-contributory pension at 66 years. If somebody of 55 years of age transfers land, which would be our desire, our target and our objective, there is very little there by way of inducement for them at present other than the ordinary UA scheme. It is long overdue and we should introduce in tandem with our European partners a proper farm retirement scheme.

A lot of farmers would object if they were told they were beat at 55.

A lot of people in the public service would object as well but there are——

I am beat and I am not 55.

——232,000 on the unemployment register and also many graduates who are fully qualified, indeed more qualified than many people in terms of modernisation and updating of their curriculum and experience and education. Nevertheless we should be moving in that direction. We are out of step with the rest of Europe in that regard. Unemployment will be the litmus test of this and of any other administration. When one looks at the figures it would seem that we have rounded the bend and there is a gradual decline in the figures. Nevertheless one is dismayed that in 1979 one in every 14 people was out of a job and in 1985 it is one in every five. The labour pool has risen quite sharply. We have reduced the demand for labour as a result of greater technology and greater mechanisation and output productivity and demand has increased. Nevertheless this increase is not reflected in the labour market.

I will again refer to my original point. This Government have achieved much and I imagine would leave office content that they had redressed many of the ills and ailments. They would leave office with a certain amount of satisfaction and ease of conscience if they honestly felt that they were to hand over to a responsible succeeding authority. One notices that the most recent utterances from the Opposition party, which would purport and portray themselves as being the alternative Government, have been frightening. Many of the hysterical predictions we saw some three or four weeks ago would send a shudder down the spine of every economist in the country because we are presented with the vintage reflationary package. We had the Fianna Fáil dazzling package of bribes, repolished, refurbished and represented as we had in 1977. One gets an eerie feeling that we are now quickly advancing on the tenth anniversary of the infamous manifesto and that we have not learned our lesson. We had on the one hand a promise of a package which, when costed, came to something in the region of £800 million. We had a promise that tax cuts were going to be achieved across the board for two-thirds of the population and that they were going to be brought under the standard level of taxation. When the Leader of the Opposition was asked on television on 20 April 1986 where the money was going to come from after weaving and bobbing with a certain amount of skill that would do justice to Barry McGuigan, he gave the old cliched answer, self-financing. We have exploded the myth and fallacy of the argument in relation to the construction industry and the £200 million for resources. The old pump priming act of 1977 is about to be reincarnated. It is heartening that in demolishing these arguments the Government are not alone in their derisory treatment of them because one noted that on the following day The Irish Times described it as “junk economics”. The final paragraph of the editorial said:

Mr. Haughey promises a comprehensive strategy for recovery. That certainly is needed; but tax cuts can form at best only a small part of any "mature and responsible" strategy. And if the politicians reject strategic thinking in favour of junk economics, then the outlook will be bleak.

In a subsequent editorial one notices that The Irish Times again states:

Mr. Haughey's thinking is along reflationary lines. That is not necessarily the wrong course. In one form or another it is probably the only course now open as the economic base steadily contracts under existing Government policies. But merely to pump money into building is not enough. Contrary to what Mr. Haughey seems to believe there is a considerable weight of economic opinion which views building as non-productive investment. There are scores of office blocks, factories and even dwelling houses unused at this time. He needs to be more precise in the sort of construction activity he envisages.

Reflation along the lines set out by Mr. Haughey has, in the past, largely been dissipated through imports of luxury goods or through "invisible exports"— holidays abroad and the like. It is a temporary palliative, no more. One is heartened nevertheless that The Irish Times is not the only arbiter in relation to dismissing these arguments. One noted that in the wake of the Ard Fheis Colm Rapple dismissed them, and another economist Paul Tansey also dismissed them and said they would not work. It was referred to in the Sunday Tribune as the way backwards. The pessimism of the Opposition in relation to the economy and the failure to give credit where credit is due is not widely shared. Thankfully, the Opposition's low estimate of the Government's economic performance has not been shared by and large by the business community which have responded in a very positive fashion to the courage of this Administration. When Padraig White was asked recently how he viewed the prospects for investment with the IDA this year he said he looked on the forthcoming year with cautious ebullience. Feargal Quinn said he was convinced 1986 would be considerably better than 1985 and that we need to think more positively. Alan McCarthy, head of Córas Tráchtála said: “1986 should see the volume of exports growing by 4 per cent but our cost competitiveness and keeping our competitive edge is vital”. Richard Burrows of Irish Distillers said: “We face the year with a lot of confidence. We anticipate a dazzling year”. Leo O'Donnell, Chief Executive of Jacobs said:

The most important single feature of 1986 is inflation. If we can keep the rate of inflation down to 3 per cent or 4 per cent as in Europe we have some chance of retaining the recovery evident in parts of the economy in 1985. It was the first year since 1980 that we have seen an increase in consumer spending.

Here we are people who have been singularly successful in their own right, in their own spheres and areas, who have confidence in the economy. We have confidence in the economy. We believe we have charted the economic recovery of the country. We look forward to a renewed mandate from the people to do so and to maintain the momentum.

I would like to start by joining in the welcome to the Minister in his new Department. It is only right and proper that I should do so. Though we have differences as regards policy, nevertheless I wish the Minister well. Our concern for the country should rise above other considerations.

The Minister said that this Bill is quite complex and it would not be feasible to explain all the details in his address. If the Minister finds it complex, how much more complicated does it seem to me? There would be no hope on my part of going into all the details because I do not have the expertise in that area. I will select some details in the Bill and concentrate on these.

The Minister for Finance in the Government for all of the term — and I have said this before — could be compared to an individual with a metal detector going around trying to find hidden treasure.

Does the Senator approve of such people?

I was not sure. If I find the Derrynaflan hoard I will let the Senator know.

Does the Minister approve of metal detectors?

It is unfortunate that the type of atmosphere should be generated where anybody who is trying to save is pounced on by the Revenue Commissioners. It is a case of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I do not approve of it. It is wrong and unfortunate.

We are all concerned about the importance of the family. Families have come under pressure in recent times. This is exemplified in various ways, not least by the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 1986, which will come before this House next week. The proposed removal of all the tax free allowances for children in this year's budget is another serious blow for the family. During the past ten years the value of the child tax free allowance has been continuously eroded. This year the Government have decided to ignore children altogether in the tax code. This is grossly unfair to the families of working people. The following illustrates the point I want to make: single person's tax free allowance in 1970-71 was £249; in 1975-76 it was £575; in 1980-81 it was £1,115; in 1985-86 it was £1,900 and in 1986-87, £2,000. The child tax free allowance in 1970-71 was £135; in 1975-76 it was £230; in 1980-81, £195; last year £100 and this year nil. Taking the child tax free allowance as a percentage of the single person's tax free allowance, in 1970-71 it was 54.21 per cent; in 1975-76 it decreased to 40 per cent; in 1980-81 it decreased further to 17.49 per cent; last year it was 5.26 per cent and this year it is nil. The logic of this regression of the child tax free allowance is that families with children are being pushed more and more into the poverty trap and are being asked to bear a higher share of the income tax bill. The relative tax bill for a family with children was higher each successive year than that of a single person or a childless couple. Of course, those people cannot be happy either, especially if they are PAYE taxpayers. I am not making the point that they would be happy. However, when the tax free allowance per child drops from 54.21 per cent of the adult allowance to no allowance at all we must seriously question the values of the society that allows that to happen. More appropriately, we must question the values of a Government that banish children from the tax code. The Constitution asks us to cherish all the children of the nation equally. It does not tell us to ignore them.

The following figures also help prove the point I am making: taking the consumer price index in 1975 as 100, the base figure in mid-November of 1985 this had increased to 343.6. The single person's tax free allowance in 1975 was £575. In 1985, in the same relationship to the consumer price index, this would have increased to £1,975.70. The actual allowance was £1,900. This year it is £2,000. The married couple's tax free allowance is somewhat more complicated because of the working wife's allowance. The married couple's tax free allowance in 1975 was £920. Taking into consideration the consumer price index in 1985 this should have increased to £3,161 but the actual amount was £3,800. This year it is £4,000. In 1975 the working wife's allowance was £230. In 1985 it had increased to £790. In 1985 the total figure was £3,800 and for this year it is £4,000.

Debate adjourned.
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