It is intended to take items Nos. 1 and 2 today.
Order of Business.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
Yesterday on the Order of Business I indicated, as I do today, that the Opposition have shown a good deal of co-operation in the workings of the House. We have been very constructive and very helpful and the aim of all Opposition parties is that we have an effective and hardworking Seanad. Yesterday I indicated that I was unhappy with the way in which business was being ordered. The Leader of the House, for reasons best known to himself, seemed to take this personally. That was not meant, as I assured him then and I assure him now. Today I am even more unhappy about the way in which business is being ordered. We have before us this morning the Insurance Bill, a complex Bill of 53 sections which was published on Monday. Yesterday half the people in my group had not even got a copy of this Bill. We may have been told last week the Bill would be taken this week but because many Members of the House did not have a copy of the Bill yesterday, it is absolutely unreasonable to take it today.
The Leader of the House may say, and I am sure he will say, that this Bill is merely a replica of a Bill published by the previous Government last January. That is certainly all right. It is not the first time outgoing legislation has been lifted by the present Government. Surely this Bill could have been published in June, July or August if it is merely a replica of obviously very good legislation prepared by the previous Government. It could have been made available, published and circulated to Members of the House last July or August. Why the sudden urgency about this Bill? Previously Insurance Bills were rushed through the Houses of the Oireachtas only when there was a real sense of emergency — the PMPA case and the ICI case are two examples in point. There was real urgency then.
I would like the Minister of State, Deputy Brennan, who will deal with this legislation, to tell us why this Bill is so urgent at this stage. We want to give the Bill the fullest and most detailed consideration and that is not possible in the present circumstances. People who wish to speak on the Bill would like to have a couple of days at the very least to do their research, talk to people and enter into consultations. What the Government party are proposing today debases this House. Clearly Government Departments who do not have the manners or the consideration to circulate a Bill which has been lying there for eight or nine months, in time for people to give it full consideration are now asking that it be rushed through. Is there something hidden in this Bill? I do not believe there is, so what is the urgency? Why was it introduced at the last minute and why are we being asked to give it an urgent despatch from this House? It simply is not good enough. Unless the Minister of State, Deputy Brennan, either personally or through the Leader of the House, can give us a compelling reason this morning as to why this Bill should be taken today, having only arrived on many people's desks this morning, unfortunately I will have to say we will be opposing the Order of Business today. We are not doing it lightly. We are doing it in the interests of the House and in the interests of the proper consideration of important legislation.
Before I call on the Leader of the House, Senator Manning I understand the Bill was circulated on Tuesday.
That may well be possible but at least half the members of my group had not received it yesterday. It could have been delayed in the post but that is the situation.
The Bill was sent to every person's home and they would have received it yesterday morning but most of them were on their way to Dublin at that time. I was fortunate enough to collect my post before I left home. Whoever sends out the Bills should send them to this House, especially a Bill that is circulated at such a late stage. If it is posted to Leinster House people have a much better opportunity to get it on time.
The whole process of——
Senator McDonald, will you please stand up?
It is true that the agenda does not arrive on time. Some people may not receive it until Tuesday or Wednesday but it is certainly posted in this House on Friday morning.
I have not got the Bill even at this moment. There is a certain amount of sense in what Senator Willie Ryan said, but I would go a bit further and say that instead of posting documents to the Members of this House they should be left at the General Office or the Inquiry Office and we could collect them. When I am in Dublin I reside in Dublin 2. I do not receive post at my Dublin address until two days after it is posted. I took this matter up with An Post and they said the fault lies with the people who send the letters, that they do not send them out in time. I had an appointment to meet people here on 31 July. Those people posted a letter in Dublin 2 and I got it on 4 October of that year. I have the envelope as proof and I took the matter up with An Post. I did not get the letter until four months after it was posted.
I am not too interested in the history of letters that are flying around the country. All I am concerned about is why there was a delay in circulating the Insurance Bill which is on the Order of Business that I am now trying to get through this House this morning.
I agree with that. It is only fair to say that if they were left in the General Office, we would get them with our post in the mornings and there would be no problems.
With all due respects, Senator Ryan, I have the brief as spokesman on Industry and Commerce, and even if the Bill was there on Monday or if I had it on Tuesday, it is very intricate legislation, and will take more than one or two days to get advice and to suss out the Bill. The Government Departments have treated this House very unfairly in this circumstance. I call on the Minister of State, Deputy Séamus Brennan, to state why he wants this Bill put before the House at such short notice.
Is it possible to conclude on the Order of Business?
It is proposed to take items Nos. 1 and 2. I apologise to Members who did not receive the Bill as was intended. It is not without precedent that this has happened. Anybody who suggests that we got the Order of Business for the day earlier than we got it this week would be mistaken. We always receive the Order of Business on the morning we arrive. It is important that Bills be circulated well in advance and, in general, this has happened. The Insurance Bill is an important Bill and we are not going to rush it through the House. There will be no speedy exit of this Bill from the House. Second Stage will commence today. Everybody will have an opportunity to speak on it and there will be plenty of time to deal with the Bill in detail.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
No.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 23; Níl, 17.
Tá
- Bohan, Edward Joseph.
- Byrne, Seán.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Doherty, Michael.
- Eogan, George.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Fitzsimons, Jack.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- Lydon, Donal.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- McKenna, Tony.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Mulroy, Jimmy.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Ryan, William.
- Wallace, Mary.
Níl
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Connor, John.
- Daly, Jack.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Manning, Maurice.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Harte, John.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kelleher, Peter.
- Kennedy, Patrick.
- McDonald, Charlie.
- Ross, Shane P. N.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Tellers: Tá, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey; Níl, Senators J. Daly and G. Reynolds.
Question declared carried.
In view of the vote and the fact that we oppose this, could I have an assurance from the Leader of the House that in the obvious interests of the best consideration of this Bill Second Stage will not be concluded today?
I was going to make the point that this Bill is not going to be rushed through the House. There will be adequate time to consider it. I take the points raised by the Opposition Senators this morning and I will give a guarantee that there will not be any rushing of Bills through the House. There will be adequate time given for consideration of new Bills before they come into the House.