It is intended to take Items Nos. 1 and 2 today.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. Yesterday during the the charade that passed for the Order of Business — indeed, it is very unfortunate that the only time we seem make front pages of newspapers or get on the "Gay Byrne Show" is when something like that happens — in the course of exchanges certain allegations were made, I am sure, in the heat of the moment. One allegation, in particular, was made that mistakes in setting examination papers at University College, Dublin, had led to students being failed. I am quite certain that the remark was made in the heat of the moment, but I believe that institutions have reputations as well as individuals. I call upon the Senator who made that remark yesterday to withdraw it.
Also on the Order of Business, I would like to press the Leader of the House, in the calmer spirit which prevails today, for a debate on Anglo-Irish relations and to give Item No. 9 on the Order Paper priority at the earliest possible moment next week.
Nílimse sásta glacadh le Riar na hOibre inniu. Molaim go ndéanfaí leasú ar na moltaí atá déanta ag Ceannaire an Tí, is é sin Uimhir 9 faoi mar atá sé inniu a chur ar Riar na hOibre. Molaim go bpléfimid inniu an rún sin agus míneoidh mé cén fáth. Tá geallta ag Ceannaire an Tí fadó riamh an rún sin a chur ar an gclár agus é a phlé, ach ansin, faoi mar is cuimhin le Seanadóirí tharla an t-úafás ó Thuaidh agus bhí daoine corraithe. D'aontaigh an Seanadóir Mooney agus mé féin nárbh é an t-am oiriúnach é chun an rún sin a phlé. Ach anois tá casadh eile ar an scéal. Tá an t-uafás maolaithe, buíochás mór le Dia agus níl daoine chomh corraithe agus a bhí. Tá an díospóireacht tosnaithe cheana féin ó Thuaidh agus tá casadh nua curtha ar an scéal ag an Taoiseach sna Stáit Aontaithe. Mar sin de, ní fhéadfadh——
Senator Murphy, ceist.
——an t-am a bheith níos oiriúnaí chun an rún seo a phlé, agus táimse ag moladh go foirmeálta go gcuirfí ar Riar na hOibre inniu é.
I wish formally to support the proposal that we should have a debate on Anglo-Irish relations today. I am seconding a motion to change the Order of Business. I did not have time this morning — and it is completely my fault — to check the number of times before Easter that we got pledges from the Leader of the House, and perhaps from the Acting Leader of the House, that we would have a full debate on Anglo-Irish relations. That was at a time when things were very critical and events were happening every day which were acknowledged by all sides to be highly sensitive. It was with the responsible agreement——
Senator Ross, you are supporting Senator Murphy in having an item taken on the Order of Business and you have made your point. You do not have to go any further.
I agree about Item No. 9. I am reminding the House that this is not being taken.
You have done so.
It is fair that, in seconding a motion, I should be able to make a case as to why this motion should be taken. It was accepted by this side of the House at the time that that motion would not be taken because things at that time were so sensitive. Indeed, the Leader of the House was released from that pledge, conditional on the fact that it would be taken at a very early date. In the past week we have had very dramatic——
Senator Ross, you have made your point. Let the Leader of the House answer you.
I am not making political points. I am saying that in the past week events have taken a fairly significant turn. The Taoiseach said things in America which he should be——
Sit down, please. I will not permit the carry on that went on here yesterday to go on again this morning. You have made your point. I understand what you are saying. I am sure the Leader of the House understands it also.
I welcome the opportunity to distance myself, in as far as I can, from the events of yesterday and certainly in——
You were the cause of them.
Senator Farrell, quiet please.
This is not on the Order of Business.
I understand that it is on the Order of Business because it has been raised by my colleague, Senator Manning. I raised, in good faith, an issue regarding the technical standards of the Order Paper, which was subsequently described as impertinent. They are actually pertinent. They are relevant to the Order of Business of the day particularly in view of the very high standards usually employed——
There were two printing errors, I understand. We will let the Leader of the House answer for himself.
I certainly would wish to withdraw my involvement in anything that could be construed as a slur upon the other University and simply place on the record the fact that there is, thankfully nowadays, a cordial relationship between the two universities in this city of Dublin. I share a high regard for my colleagues in UCD. I would not wish to be involved in any anti-intellectual slander. I am happy to accept Senator Manning's invitation to withdraw whatever my small part in that slur was.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he will give an indication as to whether there is an intention on the part of the Government to establish an Oireachtas joint committee on foreign affairs, particularly in the light of the Order of Business yesterday and the dispute that took place there, and which was very widely reported today, having regard to the situation in the Middle East and the concern that if felt with regard to a growing attitude on the part of parliamentarians of both Houses to use the phrase ‘Palestine' regarding a State that is officially recognised by this country as the State of Israel, a State which has no embassy——
Senator Bulbulia.
I would like to make a brief reference to what you yourself described as "the carry-on" at yesterday's Order of Business. I regard it as unfortunate. More unfortunate is the unwelcome and undesirable publicity which it attracted this morning on the "Gay Byrne Show". I would just like to make the point that for two hours or so after that, a detailed, painstaking debate took place in this House on the Committee Stage of the Adoption (No. 2) Bill. It is legislation which will affect some 1,600 children in care and awaiting adoption and which will also affect those hundreds of people who would wish to adopt such children. That work, which is of significance and is important and has a direct impact on citizens of this State, did not receive the attention it deserved.
There is an imbalance in the level of reporting which is afforded to this House. I criticise those members of the press who seek to highlight the trivial. I am not denying that the trivial occurred. It did, but it received an emphasis and a reporting which it does not deserve. The fundamental work of this House, which is work of importance, does not receive that kind of reporting. Speaking to a colleague during the course of the debate on Committee Stage of the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, we noted that the press benches were virtually empty. It is important that those of us who believe in the validity of this House, its importance and significance, should protest vigorously when that kind of reporting takes precedence over the reporting on what is the real work of this House. Many of the people who involved themselves in the histrionics of yesterday were not present during that painstaking slog of work on the Committee Stage of the Adoption (No. 2) Bill.
The Order of Business is, as I stated, Nos. 1 and 2. I accept the remarks made by Senator Bulbulia when she suggested that the trivial is highlighted. Unfortunately, on the Order of Business yesterday there was a certain amount of triviality thrown about and the debate that followed was not carried. This House has not been treated well by the media, in particular by new members of the media who come in and are, I suppose, cutting their teeth here. There are very genuine reporters here day after day and they report what happens. The new reporters seem to be doing the same as they are doing in the other House, as has been said by Senator Bulbulia, that is, highlighting the trivial.
On the matter of foreign affairs, we will have a debate on the Middle East question as soon as we can organise the Minister for Foreign Affairs to take that debate. There is no problem about that.
On the matter of the debate on Anglo-Irish affairs, as Senators see a motion is down in my name and that debate will take place at an appropriate time.
Mar a dúirt mé, is é Ord na hOibre Uimhreacha 1 agus 2. Ní bheidh aon díospóireacht againn inniu ar Uimhir 9 ach beidh sé ar Ord na hOibre am éigin eile.
With respect, one of the questions I asked was not answered.
Usually when the Leader of the House replies it concludes at that point, but there was a question you asked and it was not answered.
I think it was not totally answered. That was my question on the debate being suggested on the Middle East. The specific question was about the Government's intention with regard to establishing an Oireachtas joint committee on foreign relations. With respect, the Leader of the House did not address that issue at all.
I will bring to the Government the views Senator Norris has put to the House.
I do not want to waste the time of the House and that is why I am making this particular point. If Senator Lanigan could give us a specific date which is acceptable for a debate on Anglo-Irish affairs, we shall not oppose the Order of Business. I want to give him an opportunity to do so, but if he does not we will have to oppose the Order of Business.
Is the Order of Business agreed? Sorry, Senator Murphy has moved an amendment that Item No. 9 be taken after Item No. 2. Is the amendment seconded?
I second that.
Question put: "That Item No. 9 be taken after Item No. 2."
Senators
Votáil.
The question is: "That Item No. 9 be taken after Item No. 2". On that question a division has been challenged. Will those Senators calling for a division please rise in their places?
Senators Bulbulia, Murphy, Ross, Harte and Daly stood.
The division will now proceed.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 11; Níl, 22.
Tá
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Connor, John.
- Daly, Jack.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Harte, John.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Manning, Maurice.
- Murphy, John A.
- Norris, David.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
Níl
- Bohan, Edward Joseph.
- Cullimore, Seamus.
- Doherty, Michael.
- Eogan, George.
- Fallon, Seán.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Fitzsimons, Jack.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Kiely, Dan.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- McGowan, Patrick.
- McKenna, Tony.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Mulroy, Jimmy.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- Ó Conchubhair, Nioclás.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Ryan, William.
- Wallace, Mary.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Murphy and Ross; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey.
Question declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.