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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Jul 1988

Vol. 120 No. 16

Local Government (Multi-Storey Buildings) Bill, 1988: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The aim of this Bill is to give legal backing to the recommendations of the Task Force on Multi-Storey Buildings that the owners of certain multi-storey buildings, of five or more storeys, should have them appraised by a competent person, to establish their resistance to structural damage in the event of a direct accident to the building.

I might briefly remind Senators of the background to the Bill. You will recall the gas explosions in multi-storey buildings last year, including the tragedy in Raglan House. The engineering firm, Cremer and Warner, were asked to report on the explosions. Following receipt of the report the Government established a task force to consider if there were problems related to potentially vulnerable buildings and to make recommendations for action. The task force's report has been published and copies have been presented to both Houses.

The report included a number of recommendations dealing with both structural and gas safety. Appropriate action on implementing these recommendations is being undertaken by my Department and by the Department of Energy. One of the central findings in the report was that there was no cause for general concern about the stock of multi-storey buildings in relation to vulnerability to disproportionate collapse — that is collapse which would be out of proportion to the magnitude of the accident caused to the building. That central finding is most re-assuring.

The report identified certain forms of construction of multi-storey buildings and considered it prudent that the owners of such buildings should have them appraised to determine their robustness. It gave guidelines on how this appraisal might be carried out and, if the robustness of any particular building is in doubt, it recommended actions that should be taken to minimise the risk of accidental damage to that building. In making this recommendation the task force recognised that structural upgrading of an existing building is seldom economically viable.

The particular buildings identified in the report as needing appraisal are those of five stories or more that are constructed using precast concrete floors together with either precast concrete frames, or precast concrete panels, or masonry walls.

The Government considered that statutory requirements to appraise these buildings and to take any necessary action were needed to reassure both the users of such buildings and the public in general. The Bill now before the House and which has been passed by the Dáil reflects a response to that need. It requires the owners of all buildings of five or more storeys, which were built since 1950, to have their buildings appraised by a competent person and to submit certificates of appraisal to the local authority. It is highly unlikely, according to technical advice, that any of the buildings in question was built before 1960 but in order to be certain of including all buildings of concern it was felt that a 1950 datum would provide an adequate margin of safety.

Much engineering evidence points to five storey buildings as requiring technical consideration of a different order from that for buildings of four storeys or less. The task force in recommending the apprisal of buildings of five storey and upwards reflected that evidence, as does the Bill. Committee Stage is the appropriate place to discuss these points in detail and, if necessary, they can be teased out there.

Section 2 of the Bill requires each local authority to prepare and maintain a register of all buildings of five storeys or more constructed since 1950 in its area. The local authority will notify the owner of each building, in these categories, completed before the legislation comes into effect of the need to submit a certificate relating to the structural appraisal of the building. Provision is made in section 4, to which I will refer later, for the certification of multi-storey buildings completed after the legislation comes into effect.

Section 3 deals with the certificates which must be submitted by owners. Provision is made to enable a person who has been served with a notice by a local authority, but is not an owner, to make a declaration to that effect. He will not then have to submit a certificate. The form of the certificates will be prescribed by regulations to be made by me following the enactment of the legislation and different certificates can be provided depending on the circumstances of the building.

Every building of five storeys or more built since 1950 must have a certificate submitted for it. If the building is not one of the construction forms identified by the task force as requiring appraisal, the certificate will confirm that fact and nothing further will be required with regard to that building. In other cases the Bill provides that if the building is constructed in accordance with the codes of practice and standards that take account of disproportionate collapse, or if its level of robustness is comparable with that of those buildings, then this will be written on the certificate and no further action will be required in these cases.

If a building's robustness is in doubt it may be out of the question on cost grounds, even if it is technically possible, to structurally enhance that building. This was recognised by the task force and, as an alternative, they recommended a list of actions to be taken, in so far as they are reasonable in any particular case, to minimise the risk of accidental damage to such a building and thereby enhance its safety. There is a list of actions in the Third Schedule to the Bill. Section 3 (2) (c) provides for certificates in these cases.

Regarding the Third Schedule, there may be some confusion about the question of banning the use or storage of gas cylinders and I want to make it clear that this Bill does not impose a ban. What it does is make provision, where a building is not adequately robust, for a ban on cylinders if, in the opinion of the competent person, the robustness of the building requires it. This is only one of a series of actions that might have to be taken and a list of such actions is in the Third Schedule to the Bill. Of course, which, if any, of these actions would be taken in any particular case where a building is not adequately robust would be a matter for the owner and his adviser. All certificates must be signed by a competent person who is defined in section 1 of the Bill as a chartered engineer with experience related to either structures or gas depending on what is being appraised and the actions being taken.

In the case of a multi-storey building completed after the commencement of the Act the owner will be required, without notification from the local authority, to submit the necessary certificate before the building or any part of it can be occupied; this is provided for in section 4. The need for a certificate where a local authority own a multi-storey building in their own area is dealt with in section 6.

Section 5 provides that where action has been taken to minimise the risk of accidental damage to a building, such action cannot be changed or reversed without a new certificate being submitted to the local authority. It will be a serious offence to breach this provision with a maximum penalty of a fine of £10,000 and/or three years in prison. This provision will provide protection for users of such buildings and the general public while, at the same time, giving a degree of flexibility to an owner who may wish, because of altered circumstances, to make changes. Provision for rights of entry of an owner and his agent in the cases of multi-owner or multi-occupancy buildings after due notice is catered for in section 7.

The remaining sections cover the usual legislative provisions for interpretation, service of notices, power to require information from occupiers of a building as to the owner, the making of regulations, offences and penalties. In view of the possible implications, it is proposed to make certain offences, including the giving of an untrue certificate, indictable offences if done knowingly, with maximum penalties of a £10,000 fine or a jail sentence of up to three years, or both. Other offences are subject to a maximum penalty of £1,000.

During the Committee Stage debate in the Dáil the question was raised as to whether the particular paper in which a section 8(4) notice is to be published should be confined to national or provincial papers, the view put to me being that, as worded, the subsection could give rise to abuses similar to those allegedly committed in relation to planning notices, by publication in a newspaper that is not widely in circulation. I have considered this matter carefully.

Here I must point out that the notice under this Bill is fundamentally different from that under planning legislation. First and foremost it is to be inserted by the local authority in an effort to locate an owner and this places it in an entirely different category from that of an applicant for planning permission; secondly, the notice will be used only if an owner of a multi-storey building is not known or cannot be located. This provision is likely to be invoked rarely, if at all. It would be surprising to find a modern multi-storey building whose owner could not be located relatively easily, and even if his identity was obscure, tenants not knowing to whom they paid their rent would be odd in the extreme. In all the circumstances I see nothing to be gained by a more detailed specification of "newspaper" and this view is supported by legal advice taken on the question.

On publication of the task force report my Department placed advertisements in the national papers advising owners of the recommendations in the report and the need for appraisal of certain buildings. Local authorities were also advised and asked to begin work on setting up their registers of multi-storey buildings. The important thing at this stage is to ensure that the buildings in question are appraised and I know that many owners will wish to have this done as rapidly as possible. In fact, I understand that many buildings have already been appraised. I will be asking local authorities to notify individual owners as soon as possible of the requirements under the Bill and my Department will be issuing appropriate guidance documentation to the local authorities in the near future.

I am confident that implementation of the provisions in this Bill will give a greater level of reassurance to the public about the safety of multi-storey buildings. Therefore I commend the Bill to the House.

The unfortunate natural gas explosion at Raglan House in my area has been a major reason for this Bill which is before the House today. Since that explosion there have been three major reports; one by Cremer and Warner, one by VEG and one by the task force on multi-storey buildings, with extensive recommendations in relation to gas safety. The explosion at Raglan House was caused by the ignition of gas which had accumulated in flat 1 of Raglan House. The evidence clearly points to a gas escape from a fractured gas service main pipe supplying gas to Raglan House. The gas escaping from the service pipe saturated much of the ground because the clay surface and tarmac areas above prevented venting of the gas to the atmosphere. The gas accumulated in the voids underneath the building and at some stage it was ignited. As a result an explosion took place, with the tragic loss of two lives. I was on the site 15 minutes after the explosion happened. Looking at the building, it was the fear of everyone present that a number of lives had been lost. Fortunately, it was a bank holiday weekend and most of the flats were unoccupied.

The Cremer and Warner report aimed dozens of recommendations at four organisations most closely involved for one reason or another with the Raglan House explosion. They were New Dublin Gas, Dublin Corporation, the Government and Holland Lansdowne, the developers of the apartment complex of which Raglan House was part. I am pleased to note that every multi-storey block of flats which has a gas supply has been examined. When the Minister is replying, he might be good enough to inform the House if the recommendation in relation to the flat complex at Ballsbridge — that Holland Lansdowne should either ventilate or fill in the voids under remaining apartment blocks in the flat complex so as to prevent gas accumulating as it did at Raglan House — has been complied with.

Another recommendation was that Dublin Corporation should examine the adequacy of their procedure for approving building plans and inspection sites during construction. The Cremer and Warner report made the comment that Dublin Corporation failed to notice that the building constructed by Holland Lansdowne did not correspond to the details on the application for by-law approval and they agreed that they inspected Raglan House only at the foundation stage and never subsequently.

The Cremer and Warner report is a good one and is most welcome. It brings together the many diverse aspects of the explosion and the damage therefrom. The only criticism I would like to make of that report is that it states that the collapse of the building at Raglan House following the first explosion could be likened to the collapse of a house of cards. To the lay person, this would call to mind a structure that would fall completely as soon as a restraining hand is removed or in the slightest puff of wind. It would cause fears that would be unnecessarily distressing to the residents of multi-storey flat complexes.

The terms of reference given to the task force required them to identify multi-storey buildings liable to progressive collapse and to give advice on remedial measures necessary to prevent this occurence. They considered that disproportionate collapse is a more meaningful term than progressive collapse in the context of the response of multi-storey buildings to accidental damage. It appears, from the terms of reference of the task force, that they should try to identify each individual multi-storey building which was liable to progressive collapse, in addition to providing guidance on remedial measures. While it was considered at the outset that this would be a large and time-consuming exercise, the task force felt that they should nevertheless attempt to do it.

An advertisement was placed in four daily newspapers inviting owners or designers of buildings to complete a questionnaire which was available on request from the secretary of the task force. The local authority were requested to complete questionnaires in respect of multi-storey buildings within their functional area and the various public sector organisations were asked to complete questionnaires in relation to buildings owned or leased by them. While local authorities promptly responded with a list of buildings of five storeys or more, they did not generally have the details of individual structures.

The response from owners and designers was disappointing. While a number of responses were complete in all aspects, a large proportion were lacking in detail of the structure or the codes to which they were designed and constructed. The task force was then of the view that they were not in a position to determine the vulnerability to disproportionate collapse of individual buildings. They found no grounds for general concern in relation to the stock of multi-storey buildings and this comment is very welcome.

Hear, hear.

The task force considered it more satisfactory that the owners of multi-storey buildings of five storeys or more have their buildings appraised by a competent person to determine that the buildings are sufficiently robust to resist disproportionate collapse. The particular buildings identified by the task force as needing appraisal are those of five storeys or more that are constructed using pre-cast concrete floors, together with either pre-cast concrete frames or pre-cast concrete panels or masonry walls.

The Bill before the House today gives statutory backing to the recommendations of the task force that owners of buildings deemed in need of examination should have to submit a certificate showing an appraisal and, where necessary, that remedial works have been done. For this reason, I welcome the measure before the House because a number of management committees of multi-storey buildings have been awaiting this legislation in order to carry out the appraisals as required. I will come back to that in a moment.

There is a requirement now on local authorities to keep a register of multi-storey buildings of five storeys or more in their functional area and to notify owners of each such building completed before the legislation comes into effect of the need to submit a certificate relating to structural appraisal of the building. All certificates must be signed by a competent person and this is defined in the Bill as a chartered engineer with experience relating to either structures or gas, depending on what had been appraised and what action is being taken.

It is worth noting that there are frequent references in the Cremer and Warner report to accidents such as Raglan House, indicating that they believe that a natural gas explosion is not the only way in which a multi-storey building could be so damaged as to collapse. An explosion caused by bottled gas, or even a very heavy impact, could conceivably bring about the same result. One of the management committees of multi-storey buildings in my area rang me yesterday in relation to the legislation and informed me that they were banning bottled gas from their complex until it had been appraised. The realisation that structural damage can be caused other than by gas explosion places a heavy responsibility on the Government, Dublin Corporation and apartment developers and builders to comply with the recommendations of experts in the construction of buildings.

I have received — as I am sure all Members of the House have — correspondence from the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland in relation to the Bill. They have taken a very responsible stand in this area and have set up a committee to examine the evidence available and to advise on the implications of the situation. They were of the view — this is the main thrust of their recommendations — that all buildings are at an unacceptable risk level until the safety of the gas supply is dealt with and brought up to international standards of safety. We all agree with that.

I was concerned about the Cremer and Warner report being implemented in full. I raised this matter on the Adjournment on Wednesday, 7 March and I will quote from that because it is very relevant. In the Official Report, at column 2026, the Minister for Energy said:

Gas safety is a subject which I have been extremely conscious of since taking office and I appointed a technical officer of my Department to closely monitor, on an ongoing basis, the implementation by Dublin Gas of the various recommendations.

I am satisfied that overall, excellent progress has been made by Dublin Gas and I am confident that sustained vigilance and commitment will see further improvements. I would like to pay a particular tribute to the staff of Dublin Gas who responded very positively to the new gas initiatives.

Implementation of the recommendations of the Cremer and Warner report is now over 95 per cent complete. I want to emphasise that to Senator Doyle. I recognise his particular constituency interest in this matter in view of the tragedy that took place in his constituency but I want to emphasise to him that in the period since the Cremer and Warner report recommendations were made 95 per cent of them have been implemented.

There are two reports — the Cremer and Warner report making recommendations to the Minister for Energy and the task force which is the basis of the Bill before the House making recommendations to the Minister for the Environment. The task force makes 30 recommendations in all and the association of consulting engineers are not slow in reminding us that 29 of these recommendations relate to gas.

The Minister went on to say:

The report of the task force on multi-storey buildings which was prepared for the Minister for the Environment contains 30 recommendations directed at Dublin Gas in addition to those which are a matter for the Minister for the Environment. I am delighted to be able to say that Dublin Gas recommendations are almost 50 per cent complete and all of them will be completed within the anticipated three year schedule. I can also inform the House that the Government have now approved the circulation of the Bill by the Minister for the Environment on multi-storey buildings.

That question was raised by me and the Bill is now before the House.

Ninety-five per cent of the recommendations of the Cremer and Warner report have been fulfilled and up to 2 March 50 per cent of the recommendations of the task force were implemented according to the Minister. I should like to know the present situation in relation to the 30 recommendations.

How can he, he is not the appropriate Minister?

His officials might be able to give us that information.

I assure Senator Norris I will be able to give all that explanatory information.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Doyle, without interruption, please.

We all share the view of the association of consulting engineers in relation to gas safety but I disagree with them on some other points in their memorandum. They state in paragraph 5 that the proposed legislation will cause unwarranted concern and distress to owners and occupiers of multi-storey buildings, particularly apartment buildings. It would also result in unwarranted expenditure of money in an ineffective way by the owners of apartments or other multi-storey buildings.

I live in an area where there are many multi-storey buildings. If one were to do an examination one would find that the majority of multi-storey buildings are in the south-east part of the city. I have had representations from a number of management committees asking when this legislation would come before the House because they were anxious to carry out the appraisal to ensure that buildings are completely safe. They welcome this legislation as I do.

There is also the matter of a certificate which has to be drafted for a building. The Minister might be able to indicate how individuals in a block of flats which has been appraised and passed can obtain a certificate because it would be advantageous to them. It would become part of their title and if they sold their flats it would be encouraging to new buyers to see that the flat had been appraised. I also want to talk about the cost of the appraisal of a flat complex. Yesterday, I heard of a 30 unit flat complex and the cost of its appraisal was between £3,000 and £4,500, which works out at about £150 per unit. That is not excessive for having one's house examined and guaranteed free from structural faults.

When I was a Member of the other House I spoke on Second Stage of the Building Controls Bill which has not yet reached Committee Stage. I am pleased to note from the task force report that the Minister for the Environment recently put down a motion seeking to restore the Building Controls Bill to the Order Paper. The only effective conclusion to the measures we are discussing today is that the recommendations of the task force that the Building Controls Bill would be enacted as soon as possible so that the building regulations and an effective buildings control system can be put on a statutory basis.

This is an area to which I could contribute at some length without transgressing the rules of the House on Second Stage. I have no new insight and I cannot say anything that has not already been said so I will confine my contribution to a few general remarks.

Like Senator Doyle I warmly welcome the Bill. It is very important even though it relates to very few areas. Senator Doyle stated that there are many multi-storey buildings in his constituency. In my area I cannot think of any and this would apply to many other Members, too. The Minister did not give us any idea about numbers, whether we are talking of dozens or hundreds, but it is not a relatively large number anyway. At the same time it is an important Bill.

In design, the primary purpose is the functional aspect and then we have the aesthetic aspect. The functional aspect pertains to the usage of the building, or whatever is being designed, and the aesthetic aspect pertains to the emotional stimulus or the reaction of the beholder. Overriding all this is the safety aspect. Safety is the most important aspect in any design. I notice, for example, that car doors have sharp corners and in the home tables with sharp corners are a danger to children. In these cases safety is not given the importance it deserves. In the design of a domestic building there is an unwritten rule that, for example, every room would have two exits — the door into the corridor and the window, in case of fire when it would be necessary to make a fast exit. With regard to domestic buildings, I have noticed recently a few instances where the Department of the Environment inspectors seem to close their eyes to the fact that windows could not be opened to enable people to use them as an escape exit in an emergency.

Many people are concerned about the safety aspect of apartments. I am quite sure the people who live in and visit those apartments, as well as the general public, will warmly welcome this Bill. I am sure representations have been made to the Minister for the Environment over the years to bring this legislation forward. While I welcome the Bill, I have some misgivings with regard to certification. I have listened carefully to the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of State replying to debates and I am convinced by what they have had to say. I will go into this in more detail later.

Like Senator Doyle, I hope that the Building Control Bill will come before that House soon. One of my ambitions is that I will be a Member of this House when that Bill comes before us, because since I have come into the Seanad I have looked forward to its introduction. Since the early seventies we have had draft building regulations, now we have the proposed regulations, and the guidance manual, a very comprehensive book which is very helpful to anybody involved in the design of buildings. I can see no reason why the Building Control Bill has not become law before this. I realise it will involve very serious discussions, and expense for the people involved in certification. To build up a library which would include all the regulations and criteria involved in the proposed building regulations, would be very costly on its own, but at present there is a lacuna in this area.

There is a great weakness in the planning laws. While we have fairly comprehensive planning legislation, there is no machinery for overseeing that the works are carried out in accordance with planning applications. At present, the only method whereby certification for planning permissions executed are provided, is when people sell property and a certificate of compliance has to be provided. Very often there is a difficulty in this area. This is unacceptable. Planning legislation should provide a means to ensure that the work has been carried out in compliance with the planning permissions and-or conditions. For that reason, and from the point of view that it would be a great improvement with regard to buildings and structures, I hope the Building Control Bill will come before this House in the near future. That Bill would be very comprehensive and would include far more than this Bill. Section (e) of the proposed building regulations deals with structural strength and stability. With regard to its inclusion of codes and standards, it is far more comprehensive than Schedule I of this Bill.

With regard to gas and the problem it created — I realise that this Bill was introduced because of the tragedies at Raglan House and other places. Gas, to some extent, is covered in the building regulations — section (r) deals with flues, chimneys, fireplaces and hearths. While this Bill deals strictly with one use of gas, the building control regulations could cover this to a far greater extent.

I have been involved with structural engineers for a considerable time and I have no doubt our engineers have a degree of competence which cannot be equalled in any other country. I say this in the knowledge that our engineers have not always got the credit they deserve. I recall the early sixties when a stand was erected at Croke Park and British consultants were brought in to design it. At that time I was engaged by the Office of Public Works and discussed this fact with one of the highly qualified engineers there. I said that perhaps we did not have engineers with the expertise necessary for that kind of design. He told me that any first year engineering student who had gone to university would have been competent to do that design. Perhaps he exaggerated somewhat but I have no doubt that Irish engineers would have been competent to do it. Then, and since, I have felt rather sore that the Gaelic Athletic Association had not employed an Irish engineer to do the design. Perhaps Irish engineers were employed in the consultancy. I am not sure about that. What I am saying is we have a very high level of expertise. From my knowledge of the theory of structures and architecture, that branch of engineering is used to a very limited extent. In that area I feel we are not dealing with what I could call pure science; but we are certainly dealing with a very exact science. I would like to go into that area in some detail but I feel this is not the appropriate time.

I would state very broadly that in structural engineering, as in many other branch, we are dealing in a precise science; stresses, wind pressures, soil mechanics, loading etc. are taken into consideration before the design is completed. In working out the design, safety is a considerable factor. With regard to the safety factor, if a figure of four is taken, it is not that four times the amount of steel required is included in a building but that the steel is only stressed to a quarter of its capacity. In that kind of situation there is a good factor of safety. This applies in general.

I feel it would not be possible no matter what factor of safety is taken, to plan for a bomb or a gas explosion which is what we are thinking of when we speak of an explosion. I have seen one situation where, when designing a reinforced concrete jetty, a three-quarter inch steel bar snapped when it was lifted. Obviously that did not conform to the general standard although I must say that overall any product which is produced under very strict supervision does meet the criteria.

The reason I say that engineering is not a pure science is that the stresses arrived at for the different materials are determined empirically, that is, through tests and experience. By and large, these conform to a pattern. The only item on this earth that does not conform to a pattern is the animal, particularly the human animal. By and large materials do conform.

In regard to providing certificates, in my day-to-day work I provide certificates for banks, institutions and individuals quite frequently. There is always a problem with regard to a certificate. I can see problems with regard to the kind of certification required under this Bill. I have no doubt that engineers are competent to provide such certification and I am not sure that they have to be chartered engineers. I am quite sure any engineer would do so, and I hesitate to say qualified engineer because I have known quite a few men who do not have any formal qualifications and who are very competent in this area.

These apartments would have been designed by a structural engineer; tests would have been carried out during the construction of the building, including what are called slump tests to determine the consistency of the concrete and cube tests to determine the compressive strength of the concrete. All these would be recorded and tabulated. It happens on occasions that the slump test might indicate that the consistency might not be uniform over a period. The compression test, which is carried out on a small cube, is done after the concrete is poured for maybe three days — it may be up to 28 days — so that even if that turns out to be unacceptable the concrete is already set in position. Nevertheless the engineer in charge has the recordings and he is able to assess the situation and he is confident that everything is in order.

With regard to the buildings that may be in question the engineer who designed the building will be available. Perhaps he will have his notes and records. I am sure that in that situation there will not be much of a problem. There may be instances, where the engineer has emigrated, or he may be no longer with us and another engineer will have to provide the certification. In that situation I would see a problem.

I would see a problem also with regard to some of the standards and codes of practice which are included in Schedule I because works which were completed, let us say, before 1980 would not necessarily conform to a standard drawn up a year or two later. A simple example would be where somebody with a single storey house might want to include a second storey. The question then arises as to whether the foundations are structurally sufficient to carry a second storey. Of course, looking at it logically it would seem that if they are strong enough to carry a second storey they were over-designed in the first instance. As I have stated previously this is invariably the situation; buildings are over-designed and there is a very high factor of safety.

In the situation where the original engineer is not available and someone else has to do the work and the original notes and recordings are not available, then a reappraisal has to be carried out. I am not sure that even if it were possible to examine the building in great detail that I would be happy to write out a certificate in some situations. I could recall many instances of that kind of situation but I do not think it would help the House. I ask the Minister to accept that this is a serious problem. Even if I carry out some investigation or trials on a house or its foundations I can only certify that in the places I examined everything is in order but there may very well be other areas which would not be in order.

By and large, if a building shows no structural cracks or major structural problems it is clear that it is unlikely that there is anything seriously wrong with it. We are talking here about progressive collapse. If one prop is taken away or damaged for some reason the building will collapse progressively.

I recall that the Building Control Bill contains a section which would enable the Minister to make regulations for a relaxation of the controls in certain circumstances. In other words, if everything is not as it should be, obviously the Minister or the Department could come to their own conclusions. I am not sure if such a provision is contained in this Bill. Perhaps the Minister might advise us if such a provision is contained in the Bill when replying. That is the position, as I see it, with regard to certification. There is a difficulty and, as I have said, I was not unmoved by the Minister's reply when that matter was raised.

Like Senator Doyle, I received representations from the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland. As I am sure the Minister also received very detailed representations from them there is no point in quoting from those representations to the House. It is worth stating, however, as is mentioned in Item 10, that the ACEI point out that their members stand to benefit financially from the introduction of the proposed legislation as it would be the members of that association who would in the main carry out the required professional appraisals of buildings. Therefore, the introduction of the legislation is in their interests and they have made a very good case.

This is a topic on which it would be possible to speak for a long time. In regard to the arbitrary height of five storeys, I am aware that it was the task force who made that recommendation. The Minister might not tie himself to five storeys and, indeed, in my view three storeys would be more appropriate. In regard to the date of 1950, again this is an arbitrary date. The Minister stated that 1960 would probably be a more appropriate date but that ten years period leaves us well on the safe side. In regard to certification by competent persons it would seem that one would not have to be an engineer to certify that a building stands five storeys or more in height and again this is a matter which I am sure the Minister will deal with when replying.

In conclusion, let me say that I warmly welcome the legislation. Its enactment will help to reassure many people. They have many problems with regard to the structural aspects of high rise buildings in the UK. I recall that they use high alumina cement there but we do not have that problem. In regard to the engineering profession, I am not too sure, for example, if engineers would have details on prestressed and prefabricated members, or if such details would be recorded. It is possible to reinforce buildings using prestressed members and post tension members and as I have said, it is possible to go into considerable detail on this matter but I do not think this would be of any help to the House or help to improve the legislation.

I simply want to say that this is important legislation and that many people will be very happy that this legislation is being dealt with and is passing through the House. I hope the Minister will deal with the questions I have raised when replying.

I regret that I cannot give a welcome to this legislation. I express my sympathy to the Minister of State who I know is a decent and forthright man for I am sure it must be of some embarrassment to him that he is placed in the position of introducing legislation which certainly appears to carry an implication of political or Civil Service camouflage. I have to say that because it seems quite extraordinary, and I am surprised that my valued and distinguished colleague, Senator Doyle, did not underline this more, that of the recommendations of the task force no less than 29 out of 30 dealt with the nature of the gas supply, and only one with the nature of the buildings affected. The response of the Government seems directed principally at this less significant element of the construction of buildings. This is absolutely to be deplored.

We hear the engineering profession warmly praised, and rightly praised in my opinion, because we have a very fine tradition in the engineering profession. It is remarkable in the light of this to note the ease with which those on both sides of the House appear to dismiss the findings of Cumann Innealtóirí na hÉireann, the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland. Senator Fitzsimons pointed out that it was this body who, in section 10 of their report, indicated that they would benefit financially from the provisions of this Bill but he omitted to give the context in which this statement was made which was, that despite the fact that they stood to benefit financially from this Bill, they still completely dissociated themselves from its provisions and they are the most senior body, technically speaking and professionally speaking, dealing in this area.

The first item of this press statement as opposed to the final item which Senator Fitzsimons read states that "The Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland believes that the proposed legislation regarding multi-storey buildings is ill conceived, inappropriate and not in the best interests of the public" and this despite the fact that they stand to benefit financially from it. There is clearly a crux here and a very interesting one. It is one I believe that it is the absolute obligation of this House to examine.

If we go back we will see that this Bill emerged from a tragic occurrence on 1 January 1987 when there was an explosion in a block of flats in Ballsbridge. I do not intend to rehearse the whole history, although this is gone into in the very extensive report produced by Cremer and Warner which has already been referred to and which consists of two sections, the main report and the technical appendices, Part B. There is a subsequent third report which deals with the tragic coincidence that there was a further gas explosion in Dolphin House during the hearing of the inquiry. This occurred at 3 p.m. on the afternoon of 25 February of that year.

I would like to direct the attention of the House to some highly unusual things and I would like to get an explanation. I would, of course, have to place on the record that I do not hold the present Minister personally or morally responsible, but I do believe that he is caught in an unsavoury situation. If I look, for example, at the terms of reference under which Cremer and Warner Limited operated, they give some interesting information in their introductory material. They say:

On 2nd January 1987 the Minister for Energy appointed Cremer and Warner Limited (CWL) to undertake an independent investigation of the explosion at Raglan House.

Let us remember that it was the Minister for Energy who called for the report. Why? The reason seems to be perfectly clear because the principal source of danger lay not in the building but in the nature of gas supply and also the work practices of Dublin Gas. This was understood right at the beginning.

I might remind the House that the principal reason for concern by the public was this matter of gas supply and that this concern could not possibly be allayed by this Bill, however well intentioned it was. The Minister concluded his remarks by saying he is confident that the provisions of this Bill will bring a greater level of reassurance to the public about the safety of multi-storey buildings. I do not believe it will reassure the public because the question at issue is not multi-storey buildings, we are not dealing with Ronan Point, we are dealing with a quite different situation. We are dealing, in particular, with the nature of the gas supply. Until the last few years, as the Minister and the House know, the town gas supply for the city of Dublin consisted of gas derived from coal, in other words, it was a bituminous gas with bituminous tarry deposits forming on the lining of the walls of the pipes which effectively helped to seal the pipes. When the changeover was made to natural gas, no provision was made to replace this tarry element that had the effect of sealing the pipes.

Natural gas not only does not contain this bituminous element but actually operates as a cleaning agent and so the defects in ageing pipes were very clearly exposed and subject to risk and that, I believe, is the reason 29 out of 30 recommendations concern the nature of the gas supply. It is clearly an inadequate response on the part of the Government to produce legislation that deals with the supposed defects of multi-storey buildings in a re-active situation, dragging up, for example, things like Ronan Point and placing it in the context of a debate where we have heard of the wonderful qualities of Irish engineers. They themselves state that all buildings are at an unacceptable risk until the level of safety in the gas supply is dealt with and brought up to international standards of safety and when they say — this is really an important point:

There is no case in Ireland where a building is known to have suffered disproportionate damage following an accident. This includes the case of Raglan House. A building designed to the most modern structural design codes (or indeed certified as required under the proposed legislation) could not be relied on to resist a gas explosion of the severity of the one that occurred in Raglan House.

Perhaps the Minister could tell me, in the light of that comment, precisely why I should be reassured because I live near the top of a five-storey building that has lasted somewhat shakily, I suppose, from the 18th century. I have gas, to my great grief I may say. I changed from oil fired central heating to gas central heating and I rue the day, but why should I be reassured when what is stated here by the senior professional technical body with an interest in this area is to the effect that certifying, examining, scrutinising, providing certificates — even if they only cost £150 per unit — would not affect the situation? A building that was properly, legitimately certified under this legislation would still collapse if affected by a similar explosive force so why should I be reassured? I do not at all feel reassured and I doubt very much if the Irish public, who are a whit more intelligent than they are sometimes given credit for, will be reassured either.

I would like to point out that we have had a forewarning of this situation. It occurred also in Clonmel, County Tipperary, where there was a change in the nature of the gas supply and Dublin Gas Company were perfectly well aware, they were advised prior to the accident, of this probable outcome. They decided on economic grounds not to alter the chemical composition of the gas they were supplying and that is a particular principal scandal that the Minister for Energy, who is the man who commissioned this report, should be dealing with and should be addressing. Why is it that in response to these reports we have legislation introduced from the Department of the Environment? It looks to me — and, of course, I am a very naive person and it takes a lot to make me feel cynical — as if somebody somewhere is trying to shift a nasty little keg of worms out of his or her box and into somebody else's. That is what I believe.

The terms of reference of the Cremer and Warner investigation were:

1. To investigate and determine the cause of the explosion(s) which occurred on 1st January 1987 at Raglan House, Serpentine Avenue, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4.

2. To examine the Dublin Gas Company codes of practice both as to standards and implementation in relation to the investigation of suspected gas leaks.

3. To comment on the manner in which these codes were complied with at relevant times in relation to Raglan House.

4. To assess all other relevant issues including features of the design of the building which may have a bearing on the safety of gas usage.

5. The report should detail the findings, draw conclusions and make recommendations on how such incidents might be avoided in future, and should be with the Minister for Energy by 23 January 1987.

Then you get the following rather interesting remark:

Given these wide terms of reference CWL in agreement with the Department of Energy (DOE), restricted their examination to matters relating to Raglan House, or similar types of multi-storey buildings and occupancy.

Why? They were asked to investigate four things and in the fifth section they were given the framework under which their conclusions could be provided and they went instantly for one element in section 4. Were they given direction to do this? Was the specific intention to divert from the principal cause to something that I might describe really as more the political effect? That seems to me to have been happening here in this case and that is why I am so concerned about this.

The summary of the conclusions of Cremer and Warner gives a history of the building and a history of the explosion that occurred. There were two explosions, the first caused the collapse of four flats above flat 1, leaving the rear flats mainly intact but poorly supported. There was a subsequent second small explosion about 20 minutes later in the void under flat 2, as a result of the ignition of natural gas and air which had accumulated in the void beneath the ground floor and then just before midday the rear flats of Raglan House collapsed. The collapse of the building, following the first explosion, can be likened to a collapse of a "house of cards", i.e. ‘'progressive collapse". There was no frame or other system to support the upper part of the building when a particular structural member failed.

I put this together with what the Association of Consulting Engineers say. A comparison or parallel from this evidence with anything like Ronan Point is inappropriate because of the conclusion reached here, that the gas explosion was of such magnitude that no building could have withstood it so that the progressive collapse was caused not by a design fault, but by the nature und volume of the explosion itself aided and abetted by a very poor level of work practice by the employees of Dublin Gas. In view of the seriousness with which we must all take the loss of human life, this has got to be placed on the record. It does not give me any great pleasure to do so, but it must be done.

Cremer and Warner say they examined absolutely everything. I am not going to read the list into the record but the Minister and the House will be aware of that. I am sure Senators interested in participating in the debate will have read the very extensive and technical reports on that incident. Cremer and Warner tested for every possibility and they were drawn, inevitably, to the conclusion that there was very probably a specific problem involved in Raglan House. In their report they refer to the backfilling of a ditch containing a pipe. They say:

The evidence clearly points to a gas escape from a fracture in a 100 mm diameter cast iron service pipe supplying natural gas to Raglan House being the cause.

One has to ask if this would have occurred to the same magnitude of intensity if the gas used had been the gas used at the time when the supply was laid in the first place, that is coal derived town gas, rather than natural gas. The report continues:

This pipe was poorly laid and back filled, with the ground below providing little support to the gas service above. CWL discount the theory that the pipe failed as a result of movement of heavy vehicles over the pipe after the explosion, as it is inconsistent with the overall evidence.

The report went into some technical detail which I will omit and then stated:

There was evidence of a gas escape in the area of Raglan and Clyde Houses for several days before the explosion. On the 24th December 1986 a strong smell of gas was noted by many people outside Raglan House and reported to the Dublin Gas Company. DGC personnel measured 20 per cent gas in the gravel outside Flat 1 in Raglan House, excavated a small hole outside Flat 1 and drilled holes (commonly known as ‘barholes') in the car park and driveway. This allowed the gas to vent, but the source of the leak was not identified and no check was made for gas inside flat 1.

On the 28th December, gas was for the first time smelt inside the Raglan House flats. On the 29th December, First Management, the managing agents for the owners, reported the leak to DGC, who state that there is no record of any call being received.

Clearly, the attention of Cremer and Warner was directed by the Minister for Energy to certain areas of investigation. I am referring to the practices of the gas company. The report continues.

He checked the excavation and barholes made on the 24th December and obtained a reading of 20 per cent of the Lower Explosive Limit. No checks were made inside Raglan House (where the smell of gas had been detected).

The conclusion is highly significant:

At Raglan House, on both visits, DGC personnel did not adhere to DGC standing instructions on the procedures necessary to investigate effectively a reported gas escape. The actions undertaken were directed more at alleviating the symptoms than identification of the source of the leak.

That is a very serious criticism and it has nothing whatever to do with the kind of provisions which the Government consider an appropriate response. Basically what they are saying is that somebody in Raglan House complained of a smell of gas, that they were concerned about their safety and the Dublin Gas Company sent out somebody with an air freshener. That does not reassure me and I very much doubt that it would reassure anybody else. The report continues:

The DGC leak investigation practices carried out leave much to be desired, and are contrary to the written procedures and the training received. Some other practices, e.g. the widespread practice of backfilling temporary repairs, should be discontinued, except in very exceptional circumstances, since it endangers public safety.

The main issues highlighted by CWL on the Raglan House investigation are: (a) the need to tighten up DGC procedures, practices and management control; and (b) the need to establish effective control over the design of multi-storey buildings to prevent progressive collapse if an accident occurs.

I should like to draw the attention of the House again to the fact that item No.1 deals with the need to tighten up procedures. Despite the fact that they have been given a clear instruction to keep their noses out of these areas and to deflect public attention onto this chimera about multi-storey buildings, nevertheless, even given these terms of reference, Cremer and Warner return to this notion that there is a serious problem with regard to the Dublin Gas Company procedures and also the nature of the gas supply involved.

The main recommendations of the report are that the Dublin Gas Company should:

Issue revised leak investigation procedures, which were prepared for the Raglan House explosion, and ensure all relevant DGC personnel are trained in their use. Develop an annual safety action plan, setting priorities and target dates, with clear management accountability.

Another five or six recommendations are listed. The Minister, who is always well briefed, may have the answer to those questions and he may be able to give specific concrete reassurances to the House to amplify the vague umbrella of the reassurance given to Senator Doyle when he, in a very public spirited way, raised this issue on the Adjournment, and was given the bland assurance that 50 per cent of these recommendations were being implemented currently. I would like to know which 50 per cent, which practices, chapter and verse, in regard to those matters. We are talking about the safety, the lives and well-being of citizens many of whom in the city of Dublin use the domestic gas supply.

I should like to add that in Part B — Technical Appendices, Cremer and Warner return to what seems to have been the direct cause of the specific explosion when they refer to the discovery of an earlier trench, containing very loose backfill material, which intersects the 100 mm (4") service pipe trench at the location of the fracture, and runs east of the intersection towards the now collapsed corner of Raglan House, is particularly significant.

To continue briefly this line of investigation I should like to state that it is worthy of notice that dealing with the report on the investigation of the explosion at Dolphin House, Rialto, on 25 February 1987 the concluding paragraph of this summary states:

At Dolphin House, the service pipe-laying was inadequate and contrary to good industrial practice. A connection was made by a contractor's crew, (but under DGC supervision) with the piping "live" thereby allowing the gas to escape to the atmosphere and enter the flats. This was unnecessary, as fittings were available in the DGC stores which permitted the service to be pressure tested and connected to the "live" main with hardly any escape of gas to the atmosphere. This adds further weight to the CWL conclusions and recommendations concerning DGC working practices and supervision; these being detailed in full in the Raglan House Report, Part A.

I have read quotations from the latter into the record. I should like to consider in some further detail the briefing documents supplied to Senators by Cumann Innealtóirí na hÉireann, the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland. I believe that if we accept, as has been said in the House, that they are the professionally competent body, it behoves us to listen to what they have to say. Otherwise there is absoutely no point in their existence. In their statement they indicate that, as the senior professional body, in the aftermath of the Raglan House explosion they took the very responsible step of instituting two committees, one dealing with the aspect of gas supply and the other considering the implications for structural design of buildings. It is important to note the order of priority, first dealing with the nature of the gas supply and, secondly, with the buildings.

The Association of Consulting Engineers say that they are surprised at the continued general lack of appreciation of the significance of the findings of these committees. A study of the report of the committee of nine engineering experts who considered structural safety of multi-storey buildings clearly shows that all of the aspects of the Raglan House incident that had been and continue to be highlighted as being causes for general concern were either misrepresented or misunderstood. They wish to assure the general public that there is very little cause for concern with regard to the structural safety of these buildings. That is very important. If they are right and there is not a great deal to worry about and even if the most stringent application of this legislation proposed by the Minister were in force, the Raglan House incident still would not be avoided. It would still have exactly the same results. The Minister recognises in his speech that the structural upgrading of an existing building is seldom economically viable. What is the point in having examinations which have no practical effect other than requiring an upgrading which the Minister himself regards as economically not viable. It seems to be quite absurd.

I am very concerned about safety. I do not want it to be thought that I am not so concerned but I believe that our attention is being deflected from the real source of anxiety which is the gas. In addition to this there is a real cause for concern by the owners of apartments in these sorts of blocks, a very practical, down to earth, mundane one. In the light of this kind of diversion of interests from the real source of anxiety, that is the gas, to some kind of inflated notion of the dangers of apartment blocks — most apartment blocks are at least five storeys high and there is going to be a serious impact on the resale value of these premises. While this legislation does virtually nothing to improve the physical capacity of a building other than keeping a register — the Minister knows as well as I do that paper and ink will not keep a building standing for very long — there is very little that is practical in this legislation. People will be worried that the property they live in will be devalued.

Paragraph 5 of the consulting engineers' statement, which I take very seriously, states that the proposed legislation will cause unwarranted concern and distress to owners and occupiers of multi-storey buildings, particularly apartment buildings. It says that it will also result in unwarranted expenditure of money in an ineffective way by the owners of apartments and other multi-storey buildings who have not been shown to be responsible in any way for a problem that exists. These are responsible professional people who stand to benefit by this waste of money. I would like to salute them because it is remarkably altruistic for a professional body to say: "Do not create a situation in which you are throwing money at us and it is not going to have any impact".

The vets in this country have been creaming off millions of pounds in a totally futile TB eradication scheme. They have no such conscience in this area. The engineers, I am glad to say do appear to have. Property values will probably be seriously affected and many of the specified buildings may not be insurable not because there is reason to consider them structurally inadequate but because they do not comply with the terms of the proposed legislation. This is another crux that I would like the Minister to deal with in his reply. He acknowledges with great clarity and honesty, as I would expect from him, that some of the recommendations of the task force cannot be implemented in ordinary commercial terms because they are not economically viable, given the life span of these buildings and given the occupancy, the turnover and the income from them. The result of this is that the people inside these buildings will not be able to get insurance. That is a nice little nest egg for some retired couple to face up to. Paragraph 6 states:

The report of the Government task force and other reports of similar stature have clearly identified the defective gas network as the primary danger and main risk for building collapse. The arbitrary structural appraisal requirements in the proposed legislation for buildings of a particular height, type and age range as a legally acceptable alternative to ensuring that the gas supply system is safe is fundamentally illogical.

That is the main burden of what I have been trying to say here this morning. We are responding to a related series of what could have been really major urban disasters and yet according to the Association of Consulting Engineers in Ireland we are not addressing the problem at all. They make an irrefutable point when they say that the arbitary requirement regarding structure as a legally acceptable alternative to ensuring that the gas supply system is safe is illogical. I could perhaps use stronger words than that: I would be tempted, if it was not unparliamentary, to say dishonest, but of course I could not possibly allow myself this freedom, so I will not say that.

Paragraph 7 says that a distinguished committee of experts, a joint committee of engineering institutions, JCEI, comprised of engineers with experience in the design of multi-storey buildings and drawn from the Institution of Engineers of Ireland, the Institution of Structural Engineers and the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland examined the evidence relating to building structures in the official report of the Raglan House incident. This committee concluded that there is no evidence that any general problem exists regarding the structural resistance of buildings to explosion or other accident. What are we doing with this legislation? We have heard this morning that the Government side in particular are aching to be off with their buckets and spades. Why are we staying here discussing this if it does not actually address the problem? It seems to be a nonsense.

The report of the JCEI Committee is the most authoritative technical analysis of the problem. The JCEI provided the Government task force at their request, with specialist advice on multi-storey buildings necessary for the task force to carry out their work. In other words they are the source of the technical information which we are expected to implement in this Bill, while the people who provided the information disagree with it. I will come back to that again because it is so fascinating. These are the people who provide the information and give the authoritative evidence, who specifically and clearly direct the attention of the Government and the public away from the notion that there is a structural design problem and towards the problem of the nature of the gas supply and so on. They provide the following welcome to the Minister. They say that the proposed legislation is ill-conceived, inappropriate and not in the best interests of the public. The Minister blandly states that everybody is going to be reassured and we are all going to welcome the Bill and he commends it to the House. I am afraid his blandishments, even in the familiar ancestral accents of Laois-Offaly, will not wash with me.

In the latest report of the proposed legislation the JCEI have reiterated their finding that the main cause of concern is the gas network and that there is no evidence of a general problem in relation to mutli-storey buildings and accidental damage. The committee state explicitly that the proposed legislation is inappropriate. Item No. 9 states that there is obviously a need to upgrade the gas supply system to ensure it meets internationally accepted standards of safety. The ACEI welcome the Minister's reassurance in this regard that the upgrading of the gas system is well in hand. That is the problem and I must say that it causes me very considerable anxiety and concern that there should have been this illogical splitting of responsibilities, this illogical diversion of the attention of the legislators and the general public away from what has been clearly demonstrated to be the principle cause of the difficulty and towards something that bears very little direct or clear scrutiny.

I would have to say that far from welcoming this Bill in the light of what I have placed on the record of the House today, I sincerely hope that it will be voted to blazes away out of this House to where it belongs, in the bin, and that the Government will stand reproved in this House today for not having taken seriously the best advice they got and for not having addressed what is the principal problem underlying this whole situation. I will be very interested to find out if there are further and more authoritive views. I am not clear where they would come from with regard to the question of structural design faults which the Minister has been bewitched into getting involved with, I think very inappropriately in the circumstances. I hope that I will be in the House to hear the Minister's reply and I would ask him to excuse me for any apparent discourtesy if I am not here because I have been engaged to give a lecture in Cork later today. I hope to be back to the House before I go away to hear part at least of what the Minister has got to say and I thank him for his patient endurance in resisting what must have been a strong temptation to interrupt some of the pretty blunt remarks I had to make. I know that he would be aware that they are not intended personally and that I exculpate him from any blame in this matter but I do think that it is a matter for blame.

It is a matter for regret that legislation, which in the opinion of so many competent people is inappropriate and dodges and fudges the problem, should have been inflicted upon this particular Minister. I sincerely hope that there will be a vote on this and I hope that there will be an opportunity to register disapproval for these tactics which are, in football, known as kicking for touch. This is the clearest example of kicking for touch that I have seen in the 18 months that I have been a Member of this House.

I should like to ask Senator Norris to withdraw his remarks that the Government side is intent on going——

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I call Senator Seán Haughey. It is not appropriate to proceed to refute remarks as the debate goes on.

I will be brief in my contribution. Senators Doyle, Fitzsimons and Norris have dealt with the issue very extensively and have raised the major points that need to be raised. I would like to take up Senator Norris' point about the Government Senators heading off with their buckets and spades on holidays. I can assure him that as soon as we walk out the door here this evening, the real work as public representatives is only beginning. It is fine for him to go down to Cork and give a lecture there or stroll over to Trinity College and give a lecture there but we will be working extremely hard for the next couple of months.

This legislation has been brought forward as a result of the tragic explosion at Raglan House on 1 January 1987. That was indeed a horrific explosion. However, I should like to congratulate the Government on their swift action in dealing with the problems which became apparent last year. As a result of that explosion they immediately set about setting up the Task Force on Multi-Storey Buildings. The swift action by the Minister is very much welcomed.

I also congratulate the Government on bringing forward this legislation in such a short time following the explosion and the difficulties which emerged during the year. This is a sign that the Government are responsive to the needs of the people and will bring forward legislation as quickly as possible when a problem arises.

We are very fortunate in this country for a number of reasons. We have had no major disasters in relation to multi-storey buildings. We have known of horrific disasters in other countries but this country has been spared such disasters. As a people we are not inclined to live in high rise buildings; we are more accustomed to living a different sort of lifestyle. This is good. However, times are changing and no doubt multi-storey buildings will become more popular in the coming years and so the bringing forward of this legislation is welcome to deal with any situation which may arise in the future in relation to multi-storey buildings.

I welcome the statement by the Minister that one of the central findings in the report was that there was no cause for general concern about the stock of multi-storey buildings in relation to vulnerability, to disproportionate collapse. We do not have that many high rise buildings but we are dealing with the situation as it is and that is to be welcomed.

The measures which are being introduced here today in the Seanad are welcome and timely.

I should like to deal with the whole area of natural gas. This was dealt with extensively by Senator Norris. I know that the local authority here in Dublin have switched over to natural gas in relation to a number of their buildings and projects. Most of their flat complexes are now heated by natural gas. This was a recent decision by the local authority and it did cause much concern in a number of flat complexes. I was involved in discussions in relation to a flat complex out in Coolock — Cromcastle Court. The tenants there were extremely concerned about the switch over to natural gas but the local authority dealt with those fears in a very sympathetic and efficient way, organised several meetings and discussions and so forth with all the interested parties. The system there is working very satisfactorily. However, we must be always vigilant in relation to natural gas. Every safety measure which can be introduced should be introduced.

I note from the Minister's speech that a number of recommendations of the task force have been made in relation to gas safety. The Minister said that these measures are being implemented slowly but surely by his Department and by the Department of Energy. I very much welcome this and perhaps later in the debate — perhaps at the end of the Second Stage or Committee Stage — the Minister might mention some of the recommendations in relation to gas and how these are being implemented. I think Senator Norris would appreciate that, too.

I hope the House does not think that I have taken leave of my senses when I raise the next point, that is, in relation to earthquakes. Two or three years ago, the east coast did, in fact, experience an earthquake, from Louth down to Wicklow. It was an earthquake which was reported in the headlines in the major newspapers and it registered between three and five on the Richter Scale. By international standards, it was not a major earthquake but it was certainly something new to this country. At the time it was said that such earthquakes would occur here perhaps every 50 years. It is to be noted that there is actually a fault in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Ireland which can cause earthquakes, particularly on the east coast, so I am sure that there is no need for alarm in this regard. It is interesting to note that the tenants living at the top of these flat complexes in Dublin were quite concerned at the time. The earthquake occurred at about 8 o'clock one morning. I remember it very well. I noted that the coat-hangers in the wardrobe in my room were all rattling and that a press door also started rattling. Obviously we do not have to worry about another such incident for 50 years. It is interesting to note that there was no major structural damage to any of our buildings, so obviously they were fairly well built despite the reasonably strong earthquake. It is good to know that our buildings are fairly secure and are structurally sound. I am sure the Bill will deal with that problem.

I would also like to raise another point in relation to gas and that is, the whole area of natural infill. A flat complex in Offington Manor in Sutton was built on natural infil. This is causing serious problems in that natural gas from the infill is being manufactured and is causing distress to the residents and possible dangers. There is also a housing estate in Ringsend which was built on natural infill and perhaps Senator Doyle would clarify that. This is something we should keep in mind. It is a new problem that has emerged particularly in Offington Manor in Sutton. Perhaps new guidelines are necessary in relation to the building on natural infill, on rubbish and so forth. Perhaps new guidelines should be brought forward to ensure that no dangers are created by the construction of buildings on these waste infill sites.

The Bill deals mainly with the robustness of buildings. In Dublin we have a number of flat complexes which come within the terms of the Bill and they are in very poor condition. I am not suggesting in any way that the robustness of the buildings is open to question, but they are in poor condition. I would like to congratulate the Department of the Environment on the refurbishment programmes which they are implementing throughout the country to bring buildings up to a suitable standard for people to live in. I noticed in the newspapers this morning — and I do not know if the Minister will be able to confirm it or deny it — that substantial sums of money may now be made available to Ballymun. This is to be welcomed. A task force in Ballymun have come up with a number of recommendations to improve their flat complex. I am sure the Government will now look seriously at it with a view to incorporating Ballymun in their refurbishment programmes for the future.

I congratulate the Department of the Environment and Dublin Corporation on the refurbishment programme which they are carrying out at Darndale on the north side of Dublin. I know it may not be relevant to this Bill but, as we are dealing with the flat complexes, I would like to mention at this stage that it is welcomed very much by the tenants. It is an extremely expensive business because it costs £18,000 to refurbish one house but it is to be welcomed. I congratulate the Department and I hope that they will continue to develop these refurbishment programmes throughout the country.

I welcome the Bill and the swiftness of the action which the Government have taken to deal with this situation. I hope that the recommendations of the task force on multi-storey buildings will be implemented as soon as possible.

While this Bill is commendable it is too narrow in focus. It does not go far enough in trying to deal with the problems encountered in the multi-storey buildings which came to our attention principally because of the tragic circumstances of the gas explosion in Raglan House which occurred on 1 January 1987. It was this explosion which triggered off the fear, worry and the reaction to natural gas. The Government of the day commissioned a group of renowned international engineers based in the UK, Cremer and Warner Limited, whose credentials in the area of gas handling and gas conveyancing are second to none, to carry out a survey.

Their terms of reference were as follows: to investigate and determine the cause of the explosion which occurred on 1 January 1987; to examine the Dublin Gas codes of practice both as to standards and implementation in relation to the investigation of suspected gas leaks; to comment on the manner in which those codes were compiled with at relevant times in relation to Raglan House; to assess all other relevant issues including features of the design of the building which may have a bearing on the safety of gas usage and the report to detail the findings, draw conclusions and make recommendations on how such incidents might be avoided in the future. Given these wide terms of reference, Cremer and Warner, in agreement with the Department of Energy, restricted their examination to matters relating to Raglan House or similar types of multi-storey buildings.

The main issues highlighted by them on concluding their report were as follows: (1) the need to tighten up Dublin Gas procedures, practices and management control and (2) the need to establish effective control over the design of multi-storey buildings to prevent progressive collapse if an accident did occur.

In relation to Dublin Gas it is stated in the report that the Dublin Gas Company management had accepted inferior practices over many years, also that urgent action was required to improve standards of supervision and working practices. Under the heading of multi-storey buildings, the report stated that "the design of Raglan House being subject to ‘progressive collapse' in the event of accidental damage contributed to loss of life." It also stated that a number of other apartment blocks may be susceptible to progressive collapse in the event of accidental damage. It then recommended that the Government set up a task force as a matter of urgency, charged with the duty of identifying all susceptible multi-storey buildings including offices, flats, hotels etc. liable to progressive collapse. The task force was set up and the findings were made known to the Government, most of which are now incorporated in this Bill.

Like all other public representatives I, too, received correspondence from the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland. I am certainly confused by their approach to this Bill. I would have thought that they would welcome any measure which would make any building a safer place to live in, even if that measure went only part of the way to what was required.

There is certainly a major difference of opinion between what the Association of Consulting Engineers are saying in relation to multi-storey buildings and what is contained in the Cremer and Warner report. I will quote from a report in the construction industry newspaper, Construction and Property News dated 22 June 1988. The heading was “Multi-storey Building Bill, it's inappropriate — say Engineers”. The article went on to state:

The Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland wish to assure the public in general and apartment owners in particular that there is no evidence of a general problem in respect of robustness or stability in multi-storey buildings in this country.

The Association believes that the proposed legislation ... is ill-conceived, inappropriate and not in the best interest of the public.

The Cremer and Warner report, section 11.1.2 under the heading of "Building Collapse" states:

The ignition of natural gas in Flat 1 produced an explosion of unusually high overpressure, which caused the load-bearing walls and floor to be displaced sufficiently for the floor slabs of the first floor to collapse. The upper storeys of Raglan House then collapsed like a ‘house of cards', i.e. progressive collapse. There was no frame or other system to support the upper part of the building when the load-bearing walls failed. There was no continuity between the floor slabs and the load-bearing walls.

A framed, or similar, construction would have allowed panels to blow outwards and also, probably, prevent floor slabs being dislodged and falling onto occupants.

That is a very serious section of that report. Having seen that, the engineers went on to state again in the same newspaper: Construction and Property News of 22 June 1988 that:

"buildings are designed to limit the risk that disproportionate damage will be caused as a result of an accident. There is no case in Ireland where a building is known to have suffered disproportionate damage following an accident. This includes Raglan House. A building designed to the most modern structural design codes (or indeed certified as required under the proposed legislation) could not be relied upon to resist a gas explosion of the severity of the one that occurred in Raglan House".

In my opinion that last statement is hypothetical and certainly should not be associated with the design and construction of Raglan House which again is coded under section 11.3.2 in the Cremer and Warner report which states, under the heading "Building Design and Construction — Raglan House":

At the time Ballsbridge Court was built (1976), there were no statutory requirements for buildings of five storeys or more to be designed to prevent "progressive collapse". None exists today. There are only proposed regulations. However, the lessons of Ronan Point in the UK were known, and by 1973, amendments of the relevant British Standard codes of Practice has been made. The amendments clearly drew attention to the problem of ‘progressive collapse'. The Consulting Engineers to the Developer certified that the structure would be designed in accordance with the most recent editions of the appropriate codes.

Further, the Institution of Engineers of Ireland (IEI) had published reports on Accidental Damage to Buildings in 1972 and 1974, giving detailed recommendations for design to prevent accidental damage. These should have been known to practising civil structural engineers and architects.

CWL conclude that the structural arrangement of Raglan House paid scant attention, to the state of the art as it should have been known by all chartered structural engineers in 1976. However, CWL would note that Raglan House is no exception, it appears to be one of several buildings of five, or more, storeys which were built in Dublin without regard to the possibility of progressive or disproportionate collapse. These buildings need to be identified urgently and measures taken to minimise accidents which could cause damage and progressive collapse.

CWL conclude that the application to construct Raglan House was not fully in accordance with the Bye-Laws of the Dublin Corporation. The Developer and Architects submitted insufficient information to describe the building, and some information was incorrect and apparently misleading. In particular, the specification submitted inferred that there would be a precast frame with reinforced concrete columns, beams and floor units. In practice no frame was provided.

After that statement about the construction of Raglan House, once more we have a further conflict of opinion as Item No. 7 of the Association of Engineers of Ireland correspondence states:

A distinguished committee of experts (The Joint Committee of the Engineering Institutions — the JCEI) comprised of engineers with expertise in the design of multi-storey buildings and drawn from the Institution of Engineers of Ireland, the Institution of Structural Engineers and the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland examined the evidence relating to building structure in the official report on the Raglan House Incident. This committee concluded that there is no evidence that any general problem exists regarding the structural resistance of buildings to explosion or other accidents.

That section of the chapter has been quoted by Senator Norris but it is very difficult for somebody as a legislator, or indeed as a lay person, to read what I have just read from the Cremer and Warner report in relation to the inferior design and the reasons for the collapse of Raglan House and then try to correlate it with a guarantee from the Association of Engineers of Ireland stating the direct opposite. It makes it very difficult for a legislator to decide what is the accurate account.

One would go on giving conflicting views from different reports and associations but at the end of the day the facts are that an explosion took place in Raglan House on 1 January 1987 and the apartments collapsed like the house of cards, leading to injury and loss of life. In order to ensure that we will never again have a repeat of such a tragedy I welcome the Bill or any other measure that will give peace of mind to people living or working in high-rise buildings day or night. Section 1 of the Bill specifically states that buildings of five storeys or more and buildings constructed after 1950 are to be included in the Bill. I ask the Minister, why five storey buildings and why 1950?

I said in my opening remarks that the Bill was too narrow in focus. If we stick to the above section we can deal with only a limited number of buildings. There are many buildings in every city in Ireland which could be described as in bad shape and questions could be asked as to their safety. There is a need to extend the scope of the Bill. If issues of public safety are at the heart of this Bill's concern, then we should not set artificial parameters or limits in terms of life or of the height of a building. Why did the Minister exempt buildings built before 1950? Had he more confidence in the design teams, construction companies, developers, etc. in the pre-1950 era or had it something to do with the nature of the construction at that time? Perhaps the Minister in his reply will satisfy my curiosity.

As we do not have a huge number of multi-storey buildings I would have thought that the Bill would be designed to cover all multi-storey buildings in this country. In every city there are areas which are known as flatland where very large houses are converted into many flats. It would be very difficult to get out of one of these houses in the event of an explosion. Why are buildings of this nature being excluded from the Bill? A three-storey building over a basement would be equivalent to a four-storey building and with return to the back could be regarded as being equivalent even to a five-storey building. Many of these houses would have the possible defects and dangers of any five-storey building. This area should be looked at more closely.

I agree with section 2 of the Bill which requires each local authority to prepare and maintain a register of all buildings of five storeys or more. It is very important for someone working or living in or purchasing such a building to know that a certificate has been issued that the building is subject to the procedures and tolerances of normal building practices and constructed in accordance with the appropriate code of practice and standards. In order to achieve this it is important to have a properly maintained register of all multi-storey buildings of five storeys or more.

Section 5 deals with the requirement to submit further certificates where the building has been altered subsequent to issuing the original certificate. I ask the Minister to elaborate on that provision when replying. How does he see it operating? In my view it will amount to an enormous workload for local authorities. I agree with the intent, but is it workable? This provision will provide protection for users of such buildings and the general public and, at the same time will provide flexibility for owners who, for different reasons, might want to change the use and function of the buildings.

Section 6 refers to the buildings owned by local authorities within their functional area. There are many buildings in Dublin which would come under these regulations. The ones that instantly come to mind are the Ballymun flats because they are five storeys or more. Who will be responsible for checking Dublin Corporation to see that these standards are properly complied with? There should be some form of independent checking on local authorities.

I welcome the general thrust of the Bill but it must be seen as one drawn up as an emergency measure arising out of the tragic events of Raglan House and, as I said, it is much too narrow in focus. The root cause of that tragedy was the major gas explosion and I am pleased that there have been many improvements in that area in the past two years. We received a categorical assurance in this House from the Minister for Energy that that was the case. The report of the Government task force made over 30 recommendations relating to the gas supply system. There was obviously a need to upgrade that system to meet internationally accepted standards and safety. Again, I welcome the Minister's assurance that the upgrading of the system is well in hand and ahead of schedule.

I thank all Members of the House who contributed to this debate which was most interesting. I would like to refer now in detail to some of the matters raised. Senator Doyle raised the matter of the recommendations in relation to gas. All 29 recommendations of the Cremer and Warner report are now completed. I must put on record our appreciation of the work of New Dublin Gas. I would not like anybody to think they are not competent to deal with the situation; they are.

I understand, also, that the ten short term VEG recommendations on network safety are 90 per cent complete and the remainder are expected to be completed very soon. The other eight medium and longer term VEG recommendations continue to progress within the required three year time frame. The 30 task force recommendations which relate to the Dublin Gas network and procedural improvements are now 60 per cent complete. The second survey of the entire 2,600 km network is now completed and a third survey of the network is planned for the second half of 1988. A survey of 120,000 services in the network is well in hand for completion by next year.

Special attention has been given to gas safety in multi-storey buildings, all of which are being surveyed inside and outside, and the necessary repairs to be carried out. A survey of all apartments has been completed. Nearly all mains in close proximity to buildings have been surveyed, as well as bridge crossings and main network valve locations. A second survey of all other public buildings has started a follow-up to the survey undertaken for the task force in mid-1987. The frequency of all these surveys has exceeded the requirements of the report and Dublin Gas have now established a solid data base on the condition of the network which will be continually improved with time.

The Minister for Energy assures me he is confident that a proper safety framework is now in place for gas distribution. It must, of course, be remembered that not all of the responsibility for the safe management of natural gas or other fuels rests with the supplier of the fuel. The consumer has an important role to play by way of ensuring that fuels are used safely and that appliances are properly maintained. A major responsibility lies with those who are responsible for the design, construction and maintenance of buildings, to ensure that these buildings avoid any risk from the use of natural gas or other fuels.

Senator Doyle mentioned that there were different ways in which an accident might occur in a multi-storey building. I am glad he has drawn attention to this point. I am concerned also that this problem should not be seen as one solely related to natural gas. The Bill has made provision for the different types of accident that may arise and the Third Schedule lists the type of remedial measures that may have to be taken. Of course, these actions only relate to a building that is not considered sufficiently robust to resist the impact of an accident without disproportionate collapse. I believe that most buildings will be found, on appraisal, to be well built and adequately robust.

Senator Doyle also asked how tenants of an apartment block would be provided with a certificate. The Bill has taken account of this problem by the way in which the owner of a building is defined. In most of these buildings there will be a management company to look after the area of the building and its surrounds. Each of the occupants is normally a member of the management company and it is intended that the local authorities will serve notice under section 2 of the Bill on the management company. They will then be responsible to arrange for submission of the necessary certificate. I am sure Senators will agree this is better than asking each tenant individually to arrange for a submission of a certificate.

Senator Norris raised a number of matters. The task force set up by the Government represented a wide range of interests and expertise and their recommendations must be implemented. The task force found no cause for concern in relation to the stock of multi-storey buildings in general. They did consider that owners of certain multi-storey buildings would be prudent to have their buildings appraised by a competent person in the context of resistance to accidental damage. In the interest of public reassurance and of the safety of the public and users alike, the Government consider that it is necessary to ensure that all multi-storey buildings of five or more storeys which were built since 1950 are appraised in the context of resistance to accidental damage. Hence the reason for the legislation.

Senator Fitzsimons said that if it is the engineer involved with the design and construction of the building who is employed to do the appraisal, he should have no problem in providing a certificate in this case. If it is some other engineer, he will have to carry out an appraisal, perhaps opening all floor joists and checking the construction. An engineer with the experience specified in the Bill will be able to provide the appropriate certificate. The Bill provides for a number of different types of certificate, giving a number of options to the owner and his engineer. It will be a matter for them to decide which certificate to use. If the owner does not want disturbance of the building by opening the joists etc., if this is necessary for a certificate under sections 3 (2) (a) or 3 (2) (b), he can decide instead to go for a certificate under section 3 (2) (c) and carry out whatever actions are necessary, taking account of those in the Third Schedule of the Bill. The problems with appraisal do not arise for these certificates.

I am confident that our engineers are very competent and capable of looking after all this. I have complete faith in our Irish engineers.

I want to come back to the question of responsibility for gas. There is overall a responsibility on owners, tenants and occupiers to see that all pipes leading into the house or building should be in a safe condition. Any repairs that may be needed from time to time are the responsibility of all concerned. Senator Norris said that in this legislation we were kicking to touch. There is no kicking to touch with me; there never was. I will give as much information as I possibly can, because this is a serious matter and there is a grave responsibility on all of us to see that these new regulations are seen to work in the best interests of all concerned. That is the reason we have brought this Bill before both Houses.

Senator Seán Haughey mentioned the problem of gas arising in infill sites. I am glad to inform the Senator that my Department have already asked local authorities to identify all these and other sites that might pose a threat if built upon. In so far as control is concerned, I have asked my officials to consider what changes are needed in the proposed building regulations to ensure that gas problems will not arise in any buildings on or near such sites. I assure the Senator that appropriate changes to the building regulations will be made as soon as possible.

Senators mentioned the remedial works to many estates. Last year I had £7 million to do this work. This year I have £10 million and it is our aim, if money is made available, to get around all of these and see that they are in excellent condition again. That is the aim of the Minister and myself.

Senator Kelleher asked me to explain section 5. The report of Cremer and Warner on the explosion at Raglan House recommended that the task force investigating multi-storey buildings should initially concentrate on buildings of five or more storeys, and, depending on the findings, consider buildings of four or more storeys. The task force recommendations for appraisal referred only to the buildings of five storeys or more. I want to give an explanation of this. For instance, if a certificate is issued in connection with a building but the gas is disconnected from that building, another certificate has to be issued when the gas is restored to the building. This is important, it involves competency and efficiency and the occupiers will know that a certificate has been issued complying with all the regulations. If you get a certificate on the building, it must apply also to the gas that is reconnected. For instance, if there is a disconnection — and many may be concerned about this — another certificate will have to be issued before the gas can be reconnected and the occupants or tenants may be notified of that accordingly. I want to make that very clear.

Why were buildings prior to 1950 not included?

That was the recommendation of the task force report and it is generally accepted that they should be included from 1950 onwards.

Has it something to do with different materials?

It was different with mass concrete and pre-cast concrete. I assure the Senators that I am happy that buildings from 1950 onwards will meet all the requirements.

All the buildings that have been investigated are in reasonably good condition. When the Bill goes through we will be making the necessary regulations and they will be issued to all local authorities and corporations. It will then be a matter for them to ensure that, under the terms of the Bill, all these regulations are carried out and are seen to be carried out. I must point out and explain this, because there might be a wrong interpretation of Senator Norris's remarks. I would not like to see anybody not treated kindly; he may not have intended that. Dublin Gas have co-operated in full. We expect that co-operation and they have co-operated accordingly, and great credit must go to them and to all the staff involved.

In conclusion, there is an onus on owners, occupiers, local authorities, all the authorities concerned, and especially the tenants, to obey the regulations because we have seen the consequences in our own homes where gas, even in a single-storey house, was left on. The rules must be obeyed by all.

When we reach Committee Stage, I shall be as helpful as I possibly can if anyone wishes to ask me anything. I want to thank all Members of the House for their co-operation.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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