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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Jul 1988

Vol. 120 No. 16

Local Government (Multi-Storey Buildings) Bill, 1988: Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.
SECTION 3.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."

This is a very important section. The Association of Consulting Engineers made a very reasonable request that the words "specified buildings" be changed to "designated buildings". I believe "specified buildings" have different connotations in the building and engineering business. It would be much clearer if the Bill had the words "designated buildings". I ask the Minister to consider introducing that change on Report Stage.

In relation to certificates, a certificate is granted to the management committee, as the Minister said in his Second Stage speech. Will this certificate be available to each individual flatdweller in that complex? It is essential that they would receive a copy of the certificate to keep with their own documentation.

The certificate will be available for inspection in the local authority offices. The tenants can see it there, but it must comply with the regulations. The Senator will understand it would be difficult to issue a certificate to each tenant if there was a very big number of tenants involved but there would be no problem issuing one certificate to the relevant local authority.

I have asked the Minister to consider changing the wording. That request has been made by the Association of Consulting Engineers that "specified building" be changed to "designated buildings." I think it is a reasonable request.

"Specified" is clearly defined as having a unique meaning for the purpose of the Bill. This word is in the Schedule and I do not think there is any need to change it. That question was asked in the Dáil and the wording was deemed to be satisfactory.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 4 and 5 agreed to.
SECTION 6.
Question proposed: "That section 6 stand part of the Bill."

On Second Stage, I mentioned the independent checking of local authorities. This is a case where you have an engineer within the local authority system checking local authority buildings. Would it not be more advisable to have independent outside engineers checking local authority properties?

This section deals with multi-storey buildings which are owned by a local authority situated in their own functional area, and clarifies that a certificate will have to be obtained in the same way for multi-storey buildings in general. If a local authority own a multi-storey building situated in some other local authority's functional area, they will be treated in the same way as any other owner.

This section is included because the requirement to have a certificate prepared under section 3 only arises when the owner receives a notification under section 2. It makes no sense to require a local authority to notify themselves of their requirements, and section 6 in effect imposes the duty of obtaining a certificate without a notice being served in any case where the local authority own a building in their functional area.

Another question may be asked: will a local authority be treated differently from any other owner? I think that is what the Senator would like to know. Under the Bill, the local authority will be treated in exactly the same way as every other owner with the single exception that they will not have notified themselves that a certificate is required. That would be unnecessary. The local authorities will have to get certificates signed by a competent person, as indicated in the legislation, for any of the specified buildings they own in their own functional areas, just like any other owner. That explains the position. They must get a certificate from a competent person.

Could that competent person be an employee of a local authority, or would it not be more practical to have that competent person attached to an independent outside firm?

No, it does not matter who signs the certificate, whether he or she is employed by the local authority. I have no doubt that Senators will be aware that there is a grave onus on the person signing the certificate that all the regulations are being complied with. I can assure the House that is the way it will be, and that is the way I see it being implemented. I accept that this is a very important point.

Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 7.
Question proposed: "That section 7 stand part of the Bill."

This section sets out the works that have to be carried out. On Second Stage I asked the Minister about the flat complex at Ballsbridge and whether the vents had been closed off or if ventilators had been installed in the flat complex at Ballsbridge since then since this is one of the recommendations.

The Bill is very important because there can be defects in buildings which allow gas to accumulate and it is very important when buildings are being appraised that such defects are discovered. If the flat complex at Raglan Road had not that defect, the gas might not have been able to seep in. Equally, if there had been ventilation the gas would have been able to get out. There is a real purpose in having the Bill, even though this has been questioned this morning by another Senator. I see a real importance in having a Bill that will examine the structure of buildings. The Minister might be good enough to answer my question about Raglan House.

I accept the Senator's concern in this matter but he will appreciate that, owing to legal difficulties which may arise in the near future, I am unable to give him a satisfactory answer. I can assure the Senator that in the rebuilding of Raglan House all of what the Senator says will be incorporated.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 8 to 15, inclusive, agreed to.
First Schedule agreed to.
Second Schedule agreed to.
Third Schedule agreed to.
Fourth Schedule agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

I thank all Members of the House for their cooperation and all their contributions. They are very much appreciated.

Question put and agreed to.
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