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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Nov 1988

Vol. 121 No. 6

Diplomatic Relations with Nicaragua: Motion.

I move:

That Seanad Éireann calls on the Government to establish diplomatic relations with Nicaragua.

With the permission of the House, Senator Murphy and I have reversed roles. I am proposing the motion and Senator Murphy will second it.

I would like to welcome the Minister of State to the House. It is a particularly appropriate time to propose a motion of this sort on Nicaragua and Central America. In the past week there has been a presidential election in America which, rightly or wrongly, should give us some sort of hope for a new departure in American policy towards Central America. Many will say that the advent of Vice-President Bush to the Presidency of America will be a simple continuation of President Reagan's policy towards Nicaragua, but I hold out in some optimism for Vice-President Bush's arrival in the White House because it gives him a chance to remedy the mistakes of the past, which have undoubtedly been made under President Reagan. Indeed, American foreign policy is full of surprises of this sort. Who would have thought that Nixon would have withdrawn from Vietnam and that Kennedy would have been the person who had entered it? What we say here tonight, and if Ireland opens diplomatic relations with Nicaragua, may carry some message to the new regime in America. It may give them some encouragement to take a new course and not to continue on the same stale, unsuccessful, defeatist and destructive course which the Americans have been intent on for almost the past ten years. Let us hope that this chance will be taken up by the new incumbent in the White House and that a clean break will be made.

Fat chance.

It is appropriate to underline here the real role which Ireland can play in this particular conflict. If we were to raise our voices, and we have not done so so far, it is likely that we would be listened to in the White House. It is appropriate that we should consider and realise that we have leverage in America, that we have influence in America and we have a special relationship with the United States. We send thousands of emigrants there every year. Our people constitute a large percentage of their people and it should be realised by the Cabinet and by the Government that the United States needs us just as much as we need them. Indeed, they possibly may need us more.

As an aside, I am tired of American Presidents paying little attention to this country until they want to come over here for re-election purposes. We have had that experience with President Reagan, with President Nixon and, unfortunately, with the late President Kennedy. If the United States Presidents need us to welcome them when they come over here for re-election purposes, then they can certainly listen to our criticisms of their foreign policy. But we have made no such criticisms and that is the problem. Our relationship, while being special is, unfortunately, subservient and it is high time we symbolised the end of this subservience by opening formal diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. While I do not believe that the concrete results of that formal opening of diplomatic relations would be great, it would be symbolic in showing our independence and in showing our neutrality.

It is relevant in this debate to ask whether our neutrality is a real neutrality or whether it is a neutrality which is subservient to the United States because on this issue it is appropriate that we should look at the similarities that we as a nation have with Nicaragua. We are a small nation, we have a similar-type population and a similar kind of history to Nicaragua. We are ostensibly a non-aligned neutral country, although very often we do not show any such signs. What we should ask ourselves, and I would like the Minister's comments on this, is whether we are comcompromising our neutrality by refusing to make any independent statements on Nicaragua.

We have consistently followed a European Community line on this and it is a consistent umbrella of defence on this but in that surely we are compromising the sort of neutrality which we so often talk about. Neutrality does not involve simply sending troops out to trouble spots and saying that we are neutral between various countries in the Middle East or various factions in the Middle East. Neutrality involves a positive stance in favour of democracy wherever in the world and a positive stance against oppression, whether it be with a so-called friendly state or not. I believe we are guilty of a serious double-think on this issue. We are all in favour of democracy in certain areas but we are not in favour of democracy if it offends certain powerful trading and ideological partners of ours.

I do not say that the regime in Nicaragua is a perfect regime. I do not maintain that in Central America there is some sort of Utopia to which we should all aspire. Indeed, there are glaring faults with the Nicaraguan regime as it stands at the moment, no greater than possibly exist in this country or in Britain or in many European countries, but it is very easy to pick those faults and to say that the regime is not worthy of support or of diplomatic relations.

I will point out one or two of those faults. There was a state of emergency in Nicaragua until January 1988 which involved serious restrictions on freedom. It involved restrictions on movements of political opposition groups and on activities in which they could indulge. It involved restrictions on movements in war zones, it involved restrictions on freedom of speech, especially in the press. When I was in Nicaragua for one day during the elections the regime made a serious mistake in closing down for one day the opposition newspaper. The regime has made a serious mistake in its displacement of the Miskito and Sumu Indians, a mistake which it admits, where it moved them out of all their homelands. It created a terrible problem for themselves and it recruited many people for the Contras as a result, many of whom have since made use of the amnesty which has been introduced.

The regime is not a perfect regime and it never will be but it compares fairly favourably with any single democratic country which has within it a terrorist force. Having pointed out those faults I should say that it has many great assets and it has many great qualities. I was privileged to go there and witness the elections there in 1984, the first test of democracy in Nicaragua. That all-party committee, to which the Government never responded satisfactorily, which included a member of the present Government, reported unanimously that the elections carried out there were fair and democratic. It is only right that I should point out that that particular report was not the only one which stated this. More conservative parties, the Conservative Party in Britain, people of a more conservative hue, people who would be naturally anti-Sandinista reported to their own countries that these elections were almost impeccable and that they certainly compared favourably with the principles of democracy and the workings of the democracy in their own countries. The result of that, it must be remembered, was a 66.8 per cent vote in favour of the Sandinista Government. They got an overwhelming vote of support from the people of Nicaragua.

One of the perceptions which I did not hold before I went out but which was put across in much of the press was that the Sandinistas were a totalitarian, Communist regime, who for some reason were Russian supported and were blatantly anti-American. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I found out was that there was very little, if any, support for the Contras. Despite the fact that their particular brand of political thought — whatever that is — boycotted the elections, it was quite obvious to those of us who were there that there was simply no support for the Contras whatsoever. That revolution was a spontaneous uprising against the oppression of the Somosa regime which preceded it. It was not in any sense a Communist revolution although the Americans interpreted it as such; it was indeed a nationalist revolution.

It was a very exciting revolution in that it was a people trying to express personality. It was a revolution against the corruption, the oppression, the torture and the killings which happened beforehand. It was not a revolution in favour of a particular form of foreign ideology but what followed that was, unfortunately, a reaction in the US which was paranoid. Whereas they had supported the corrupt regime they then, with a sense of guilt, reacted and branded this revolution as some sort of a Communist revolution. Nothing could have been further from the truth.

Neither did this revolution or the revolutionaries involved in Nicaragua want to threaten the United States. Indeed it was quite obvious from the start that the Nicaraguan people wanted good relations with the United States. When I was there I continuously came across people who had been educated in the United States and who knew the United States well — the native Sandinistas — and they said they liked the United States, they wanted good relations with the United States but they detested the Reagan regime. They felt that as a result of what the Reagan regime was doing they were being driven against their will straight into the hands of the USSR and the Cubans who, at that time certainly, were welcoming them into their hands because they simply had nowhere else to go.

Those of us who were out there came away with the firm suspicion that whereas the Contras — the creation of the United States — could not win the war, the United States was still looking for an excuse to invade Nicaragua because it was the only way it could maintain its total influence there after Somosa. That has not come to pass and I hope it will never come to pass but it is a continuing danger.

It is worth looking, in this context, at the Contras, the group which has been created by the CIA and by the United States. The Contras were created post-1979, but it is worth looking at who they are and what they are doing. They are CIA-backed, they are US-supported. They are terrorists and nothing else, they are bandits. They have enormous similarities in my view to the Provisional IRA because the Contras hide under the rather romantic title of freedom fighters when they are simply terrorists who maim and shoot at will. They have no democratic mandate nor are they likely to have. Both are supported by an outside régime — in the case of the Contras, by the United States, in the case of the IRA, by Libya. They are a group of malcontents and ex-Somosa men with basically nowhere else to go. Nothing could be more apparent to anyone who visits there than that the Contras are not only representing a small group of people there, to my mind, they are representing virtually no-one except themselves, but they are representing a destructive course intent upon devastation. We found as a group strikingly no support for this particular brand of terrorism.

It should be pointed out that when we were there we were allowed almost total freedom of movement, if not total. I cannot remember being refused to go anywhere; we were allowed freedom of movement to question who we liked, talk to who we liked, inspect who we liked at any time at all. We could simply not find support for the Contras. However, the Contras have managed to do an enormous amount of damage because of the external support which they have been receiving. The economy of Nicargua is in tatters because of the war of attrition and the destruction being wrought by the Conras there.

It is not only that. The trade embargo imposed by the United States has caused an enormous disruption to the Nicaraguan economy. Nicaragua did most of its trade with the United States pre-1979, found it was reduced in 1983 and now it is brought to a complete standstill. Having absolutely no trade with the United States has again mean that Nicaragua has had to look elsewhere for markets and where else would it naturally look but to the eastern bloc? The eastern bloc, and western Europe to a lesser extent, has been willing to start trading with Nicaragua and not surprisingly.

That is not all that has contributed towards the disruption in the Nicaraguan economy. It has been a particularly unlucky and unfortunate history. Following the earthquake in 1975, international aid was squandered and stolen by Somosa. This year there was a devastating hurricane which has left appalling damage in its wake and I deplore the reluctance, and indeed refusal, of the Government to give massive aid following this particular hurricane. The amount of damage which has been done is difficult to estimate. The numbers rendered homeless as a result of the hurricane vary between 200,000 and 300,000 but in an economy which is already so damaged and devastated, this sort of natural disaster is really unfortunate.

Nicaragua spends 63 per cent of its GNP on arms which is a tragic figure for an economy which is short of all the basic raw materials. Twenty per cent is allocated to be spent on the needs of the children and the elderly and 17 per cent is left for all the other services which a State would normally provide. As a result, the State cannot provide them and the State is suffering enormously. Nonetheless, it has achieved great strides in one or two areas and it should be noted that it has succeeded in reducing the illiteracy rate from 50 per cent to 30 per cent. It was 50 per cent when the Sandinista revolution took place. It has concentrated nearly all its available resources on the education process and, as a result, teachers have quadrupled in the past ten years. It has had to conduct this particular struggle with the minimum of international aid.

It is all very well to say that Ireland contributes aid to Nicaragua through the European Community. This is true, but Ireland is also free to contribute aid to Nicaragua in a bilateral fashion and bilateral aid from Ireland to Nicaragua, as the Minister and as the Government know, has reduced and reduced very dramatically in the last five or six years. It was never particularly great but it is now gone from about £25,000 in 1979 to £9,000 which is a paltry and insulting amount. Indeed, our contribution to Nicaragua is unfortunately and shamefully to depend once again on the voluntary groups.

The people and the Government cannot claim credit for the great work being done out there by groups like Trócaire and the Irish. Nicaragua Support Group and other voluntary groups who send people out to work to bring the coffee crop home, or to do any work to support the economy in a voluntary way. The Government are doing virtually nothing. It should be recognised by the Government that the Nicaraguan regime, despite the restrictions which it has had to put on freedom and which compare extremely well with restrictions on freedom in other countries which are threatened by terrorism inside, including ourselves, has managed to make great progress in the realm of human rights.

It should be noted, and I cannot emphasise this more strongly, that one of the first things that the Nicaraguan Government put into effect when the Sandinistas came to power was to abolish the death penalty, something which in its wisdom the Government here have not seen fit to do. In addition, there is a particularly humane prison system operating in Nicaragua, an enlightened one, and a most unusual one which I was privileged to witness which is based not so much on punishment but on rehabilitation. Nicaragua has ratified the UN covenant on civil and political rights and it has, in a very unusual move, guaranteed the rights of indigenous peoples which means giving them the rights to the preservation of their own language and culture. This was in direct response to the mistakes which the Sandinista Government made and acknowledged it had made in regard to the Indians. I think in direct response to that it reacted by guaranteeing them these rights. I cannot emphasise more strongly that while the Government is not perfect in any way, it is certainly happy to recognise its mistakes and it is certainly moving in a direction which must be acceptable to the western world in terms of human rights and democracy.

There are several things that the Irish Government can do as regards Nicaragua. The first is a general move, to stop hiding behind UN resolutions and EC resolutions and moves. These are worthy, these are supportable, but they are not positive enough. I do not wish to anticipate the Minister's reply but I hope he does not say that we have supported all the peace moves which have been made in Central America over the years, that we have supported the UN resolutions and that we contribute through bilateral aid. That is simply not enough. That is simply cowardly and that is simply not what the role of truly neutral country committed to democracy and the rights of small nations should be doing. What we can do is take positive action in several ways. We can increase bilateral aid by responding to appeals from Nicaragua, such as the recent one after the hurricane. We can break our silence on US policy. Our silence was apparent from the time when the United States mined the ports, to the result of the judgment of the Court of Justice at the Hague which found against the US. If ever there was a time for us to speak out it was after that particular judgment but we were silent.

The final way we can do it, in specifics, apart from diplomatic relations to which I am coming, is to respond to the recent appeal after the hurricane. The response from the Tánaiste to say that one had to compare this with worse disasters in Ethiopia and in Sudan was totally inadequate. In addition, I am a little tired of seeing reports on Nicaragua consigned to the shelves and gathering dust there. Apart from the report to which I contributed from the parliamentary delegation in November 1984, whose recommendations have not been implemented, there was another report from HEDCO in 1985 which made many recommendations on Nicaragua, one of which was the exchange of third level students between these countries and, indeed, I am told that £50,000 was allocated in the HEDCO budget for this. This has not come to pass either. We could make a positive effort to increase trade with Nicaragua. Our trading with Nicaragua is extremely small. It is minimum. We could send out APSO personnel to Nicaragua.

I am not anticipating the work of the nearly all-party committee on foreign affairs which has been set up by all parties, bar one, in the Oireachtas in the last two weeks. This committee can take a stand in Nicaragua. It can investigate and report on Nicaragua. It can interview on Nicaragua and it can question on Nicaragua and it can pressure the Government on Nicaragua and it will do this.

I want to deal with the issue of diplomatic relations. First of all, we have no diplomatic representation in Central America at all. This is a great pity, it is a shame and I do not believe that the argument of expense is adequate to deal with it because it would surely be perfectly acceptable to the Government here and to the Nicaraguan Government if we were to introduce non-resident, inexpensive diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. The Nicaraguan Government, as the Minister will know, have frequently requested that we open diplomatic relations with them and apparently this has been turned down by our Government. We need to introduce some element of consistency into our diplomatic relations with other countries. I cannot understand how we can maintain diplomatic relations with Libya and not maintain diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. It seems to me there is a glaring inconsistency in our foreign policy but possibly the only reason is to do with trade, that the one criterion is trade. If we were to initiate diplomatic relations with Nicaragua we would simply assert ourselves as an independent nation in the international world of diplomacy. We would assert our independence of America, which is what we need to do, because the suspicion persists that our reluctance to make any courageous public pronouncement about an undoubtedly democratic regime in Nicaragua and about the indefensible hostility of the Americans towards it, is simply a cowardly reaction and a fear of some sort of consequences and a fear of America which is unmerited. I believe we have this great chance with a new regime in America to take this step, this of opening formal diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. We would offend the Americans, yes, and I would like to offend the Americans on this issue but we would thereby assert our own genuine neutrality and independence.

I second the motion. The first thing that strikes me is that a debate like this would be perhaps much better attended and certainly better informed if there existed a joint Oireachtas committee on foreign affairs, as Senator Ross says. In default of that we have set up an informal committee, but that is not, we must concede, quite the same thing as a prestige committee. No debate on foreign policy in these Houses can proceed properly in the absence of this controlling and informing influence represented by a joint Oireachtas committee.

If, in the abstract, you talked about a small country trying to pursue its own destiny, its own cultural destiny, its own economic philosophy and its concept of social justice, refusing to be cowed by big neighbour and continuing its struggle indomitably in the face of many manmade and natural odds, troubled by disasters and so on, you might well in thus describing such a country, be talking about our own country in times past. That is one of the strongest moral reasons for what we are proposing in this motion.

We could have been the same kind of people as the people in Nicaragua and we owe it to them, if you like, to give them our moral support. Indeed, 70 years ago, at the time of the first Dáil Éireann, when Sinn Féin which was the controlling group of the first Dáil Éireann were seeking to establish Irish independence, initially they did not want to, had no intention of resorting to physical force again. They had no intention of fighting a guerilla war. How different the history of Anglo-Irish relations and North-South relations might have been if they did not have to have recourse to that desperate resort. One of the things they hoped was that they would receive support and recognition from the international community but, alas, in vain. Certainly, this is what Nicaragua is now looking for in reverse, as it were, that kind of support. I suggest that we have a historical obligation to extend this to them.

Indeed, in thinking about this matter today, I was struck by the way in which Mr. de Valera's stirring words in 1945 in his reply to Winston Churchill now apply to the Nicaraguan situation. He asked the British Prime Minister whether he had any understanding of how a small country could be battered and bruised and yet recover and have the indomitable will to assert its independence.

In other circumstances we might have tried the same social experiment as the Sandinistas. We, too, might have embarked upon a bold experiment in trying to achieve social justice, as they are doing against all the odds. This was the dream of some nationalists in the past, the dream of people like James Connolly, and it is still the dream of a significant number of Irish people today. Alas, by the time we secured a measure of independence, factors of culture, of cultural assimilation with the imperial country, factors of class, factors of vested interests and above all, perhaps, the proximity of the geographical connection, made that kind of revolution impracticable. But there are circumstances in which it might have happened.

Even though we live in what is largely a class-ridden society, a society polarised between want and privilege, still I think many Irish hearts do beat in unison with the Sandinistas. Senator Ross has said it is far from a perfect régime — what régime is indeed? — and he has outlined its faults. Nevertheless, despite its imperfections, there is a genuine grassroots rapport between the people of Ireland and the people of Nicaragua. It is evident in the number of people who go there as voluntary workers, it is evident, for example, in the remarkable number of support groups throughout the country, pro-Nicaragua groups.

Senator Ross has spoken quite a lot about the need to stand up, as it were, to American interests in this regard. I would strike a slightly different note. I would say that pro-Nicaragua and even pro-Sandinista sentiments are not necessarily anti-American sentiments. It is extremely important to distinguish between a particular kind of American foreign policy, a particular kind of American imperial adventurism on the one hand and the greatness of America and the sentiments of ordinary American people on the other. As one who participated very actively in the demonstrations against President Reagan's visit here in 1984, I was proud that on the whole that distinction was maintained, that there was very little rabid anti-Americanism per se. I do not think that it really arises in this case.

I found — and I have much experience, I would suggest, of ordinary public opinion in the United States — that opposition to the policies of Reagan and the CIA in Central America is widespread in the United States. Americans vote for their President for particular reasons; they vote at a whole lot of other levels for their representatives and we have to observe the distinctions they are making there. There is a great deal of reservations about American foreign policy in Central America and it is reflected, of course, in the repeated sentiments of Congress, which has differed very much from President Reagan's policies and the persistent refusal of Congress to back his obsessive pro-Contra adventures in Central America. We should keep that in mind, it is a very important distinction.

When I was in Boston in the winter of 1984-85 where I was I might say in political exile at that particular time — now happily restored to my rightful place — I had the opportunity of hearing on a number of occasions the spokespersons of the Sandinista Government. It is one of the anomalies of the United States-Nicaraguan relationship that despite the hostility and the state of war, these people are free to travel to centres of America fora, like universities and so on to express their opinion. On all those occasions I was struck by the sympathy expressed by very representative American audiences — not, if you like, extremist students or radicals — with the Sandinistas. Let us then take comfort in that distinction. I am sure it is a distinction which is well recognised in the Department of Foreign Affairs.

I share Senator's Ross's hope rather than confidence that with a new régime in the White House this may be an opportune time to try to see whether the characteristically Reaganesque hang-up about Nicaragua has transferred or otherwise to his successor. There are indications, in fact, despite our reservations and our natural suspicion, that there may be a new policy in the offing there.

There is no shortage of our favourable sentiments to the Sandinistas, as Senator Ross has indicated. When the parliamentary delegation of 1984 returned here and made a very favourable report it was well received in Dáil Éireann. The Dáil on 5 November 1987 welcomed, on an all-party basis, the Arias initiative which was very much in the news at that time but which, alas, failed to come to fruition. At least at the level of parliamentary expression and so on, there is a sense of identification with the Sandinistas.

Our performance at the United Nations is also, it seems, favourable to the Sandinistas if we are to judge by the history of the motions that we have supported there in favour of Nicaragua. It could be said that the resolutions of the European Community are also favourable to the Nicaraguan Government as in the commitment of the Foreign Ministers meeting in February 1988 in Hamburg with their Central American counterparts and expressing motions approving in general the principles of peace and democracy in the area. There would seem to be no shortage of our sentiments of sympathy but they lack any hard application, as Senator Ross has pointed out.

Senator Ross has also referred to this matter as being a test of our independence. That is true. I would again point out in the matter of the triangular relationship between us, the United States and the Third World that when President Kennedy addressed the Houses of the Oireachtas in 1963 he paid particular tribute to Ireland's independent foreign policy which was, perhaps, at its peak at that stage. In other words, we stand to gain more respect from American politicians by exercising our independent muscle, no matter how small it is than by being, in some vague way, fearful of the consequences of stepping out of line with White House policy.

What is asked for in practice in this motion will not commit the Government to any great expense because what is asked for is a moral commitment. What the Nicaraguans want is our moral support, non-resident diplomatic contact. What they want is moral support rather than any kind of a lavish resident embassy representation. I will submit that it is the test of our independent policy, or what remains of it under European Political Co-operation, that we should use our good offices with our United States friends and I think it will be well received, hopefully under the new régime especially. Above all, it is the kind of recognition and moral support which our forebears would have eagerly accepted 70 years ago at the foundation of this State.

First, may I warn the next speaker that I will be brief and that there are just a few points I would like to make in relation to this Motion. I would like to thank very sincerely Senator Ross and Senator Murphy for their excellent assessment of the situation in Nicaragua. Unfortunately, it is not a country I know a lot about. I have just the sort of general information that one receives from time to time in our media.

I listened with great interest to what the Senators had to say in this regard and found it highly informative. A number of arguments were advanced on why this motion should be supported. The fundamental aspect which we need to look at is the economic situation of this country. I know, no matter what motion is proposed, at the end of the day the Government will always raise our economic situation and, in particular, the state of the public finances in some way or other in relation to the motion. As a small nation, this must be of major concern to us. There is no need for me to outline the position regarding our financial situation and the endeavours being made by the Government to bring that situation under control.

Without going away from the motion, all parties and all interested groups realise our situation and the very tough measures which need to be taken to get the public finances under control. We have to ask ourselves, is it wise at this stage to open diplomatic missions in countries throughout the world, given the state which we find ourselves in at home. We are a small nation of 3½ million people. We have a very proud tradition. We could describe ourselves as having an empire throughout the world in that Irish people have found themselves all over the world and have made a great contribution but at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves if our economy can support diplomatic missions in many countries given the difficult situation which we have at home.

There are many requests to the Government to establish diplomatic relations with various nations and each one of them has to be looked at. I would suggest that of all the countries seeking to establish diplomatic relations with us, Nicaragua must be down the list somewhat. That is not to take away from the arguments advanced by Senator Ross and Senator Murphy, and the moral argument in particular which they have put forward. Maybe to establish diplomatic relations would be the moral thing to do; I do not know, but at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves, can we afford it?

Another issue which has been raised is the issue of Irish neutrality. This was bound to come up in a debate such as this. Irish neutrality is a positive neutrality. It is not just the avoidance of military alliances. It is also the positive promotion of peace and justice throughout the world. Ireland has a proud tradition in this regard. Going back to the endeavours of de Valera and Aiken in the early stages of the formation of this State, a proud tradition was established. Ireland, as a nation, has used every forum to promote this moral mission and to promote peace and justice throughout the world. We have used the United Nations for this purpose. More recently, we are using the whole process of European Political Co-operation to promote peace and justice. We are a very important nation involved in that process because with a different tradition from our European partners we can bring that tradition to the European process and promote our views in relation to world relations in the various fora at our disposal. Our nuns, priests and missionaries have gone out throughout the world and endeavoured to establish peace and justice and have come down on the side of those who are oppressed and so forth.

One of the arguments advanced as to why we should support this motion is that we should demonstrate we are not slaves to the American Administration and foreign policy. This does not seem to be a very good argument. We do not have to demonstrate to anybody our proud tradition and our role. It would seem it is quite an expensive way to demonstrate that we are not slavishly following American policy and dictates. There are other ways in which we can demonstrate it, if that is necessary, but I do not think it is. There are many aspects of American foreign policy with which Ireland would disagree and would say so should the situation justify it. To argue that we should open diplomatic relations with Nicaragua to show our position is not a good argument.

The whole issue of trade has also been mentioned. Trade is also a major factor to be taken into account when opening diplomatic relations. This is seen in the case of the countries with which we have opened diplomatic relations at this stage. Libya was mentioned by Senator Ross. Trade is important. If we are going to spend money on promoting our country, trade must be taken into account. Unless I am mistaken, I did not hear one product mentioned with regard to Nicaragua as a reason to open diplomatic relations with them, and this is a factor to be taken into account.

Bananas and coffee.

I do not know if they were mentioned in the contributions by the Senators.

Senator Haughey, without interruption.

I do not know just how beneficial opening diplomatic relations with Nicaragua would be from the point of view of trade. Maybe other Senators in the House can advance arguments for this but at the end of the day, those two arguments, the economic reasons and the trade reasons, must also be taken into account.

I do not believe this proposal is a priority for the Government, either in terms of their overall objectives or in terms of their foreign policy objectives. There are many other nations which would be higher up on the list. At the moment, because of our economic situation, we are closing down foreign missions. Senator Ross, I understand, supports in general the economic policies being brought forward by the parties in Dáil Éireann and by the Government. To open diplomatic relations in this way, either in Nicaragua or in Central America as whole, would cost us money and it cannot be a priority. I do not think any good reasons were advanced as to why we should support this motion at this time. I thank Senators Ross and Murphy for outlining the position as it is in Nicaragua. I found their contributions extremely educational but to open diplomatic relations at this time I believe would be impractical.

Fine Gael have no problem with this proposal to establish diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. We would go a little further and say that we should establish diplomatic relations with all Central American Republics. Since Nicaragua, with a population of 3.5 million, is the largest of the Central American Republics, we should, when economic conditions allow, establish an embassy in Managua and accredit our ambassador there to the other capitals in Central America.

We are aware that on three occasions since 1981 Nicaragua has sought to establish diplomatic relations with this country. On all occasions the request was not acceeded to because the resources of the Department of Foreign Affairs did not allow any extension of our diplomatic presence overseas. In fact, last year we closed our embassy in Kenya, one of the key countries in Africa, which was, I think, a most retrograde step. We made that move in the name of economy. But we committed an even worse betrayal when the Government cut our overseas aid budget by 21 per cent in the current year of 1988 over 1987. In the coming year of 1989 we have a proposal to cut our bilateral aid programme by 10 per cent.

Our party feel that there is every good reason why this country should have formal diplomatic relations with a developing country like Nicaragua, as we should have with all Central. American states and the Caribbean countries and with those countries in Latin America who do not violate human rights. We share a common historical experience with most of these countries, except in most of their cases they have failed to oust the colonial overlord. A few generations ago we experienced much of their economic and social experience nowadays, such as poverty, poor housing, poor health among the population etc.

Nicaragua, like ourselves, has had a very unhappy history. Indeed it is located in an unhappy, violent and poverty-stricken region of the world. The modern state of Nicaragua emerged after 1838. Prior to that it had over 200 years of Spanish dominion. For years it was part of the Central American Federation. In 1912 there commenced an unhappy period of American intervention in the country, which lasts to this day. We might add that American invasion in 1912 was at the instigation and the invitation of the then Nicaraguan Government. The US forces stayed on in that country until 1933. The notorious Somosas seized power there in 1935 and a series of father, uncles and sons — all members of the Somosa family — imposed the most brutal dictatorship on this unfortunate land and people until 1979 when the last of the Somosa dictators was driven out on 17 July of that year.

In the Sandinista revolution which led to the overthrow of the dictatorship — which had lasted from 1970-1979 — it is estimated that 50,000 people died in the hostilities. In December 1972 one of the worst natural calamities of this century, an earthquake, hit Nicaragua, killing 10,000 in the capital city of Managua and possibly countless thousands outside the city who, for all kinds of reasons, could not be counted.

After the liberation in 1979 the Junta, as it was then called, issued a statute of rights and guarantees, providing for basic personal freedoms and restoring of freedom of the press and broadcasting. Civil rights were formally restored by law in 1980 but elections promised for that year were postponed. The situation in the country worsened in the period 1981-82. There were protests by the opposition about the continued postponement of the elections and what the opposition perceived as the increasing political hegemony of the Sandinistas. In 1982 a group of about 2,000 guerillas, who were formerly members of the Somosa National Guard and who had fled at the time of the revolution to Honduras and had regrouped there, began attacks on border posts and other government installations in Nicaragua, operating out of the neighbouring country of Honduras. Meanwhile, relations with the United States of America, under Ronald Reagan, grew worse and worse. In April 1982 the US Government cut off all economic aid to this poverty stricken country, on the excuse that the Sandinista Government were trying to overthrow the regime in neighbouring El Salvador and also because it seemed to the Americans that the Sandinistas were establishing a client state of Cuba and the USSR. That was the perception of Ronald Reagan's America at that time.

Meanwhile, in 1982, the United States gave £10 million to the Contras operating out of Honduras. They also provided $19 million to the Central Intelligence Agency for covert operations inside Nicaragua, to destabilise the political and economic situation there. Ostensibly, the Reagan administration would say that this money was spent to frustrate the traffic in arms by the Sandinistas to anti-government guerillas in neighbouring El Salvador but in reality this was a lie.

First, the Sandinistas did not help matters internally. This has been referred to by Senator Ross and I might repeat much of what he said in relation to the handling of one problem by the government. I refer to the very hasty and insensitive attempt to integrate and relocate about 120,000 Miskito Indians who live along the Atlantic coast. This relocation proved to be a complete disaster and led to demands for a separate independent Miskito nation and led to internal insurgence. The 10,000 Indians forced to move by the regime mostly went to Honduras to join the Contras and the remainder of the Miskito nation in Nicaragua became supporters of the Contras.

In the early eighties a group of countries in the region Colombia, Mexico, Panama and Venezuela attempted to bring about a peaceful solution to this Nicaraguan tragedy. They were called the Contadora group. Sadly, their efforts failed as their efforts to solve other problems of external intervention and internal insurgency throughout Central America failed. The later initiative by Costa Rica's President Arias, is presently being applied. While it made very significant progress initially it would appear to have lost a lot of its steam nowadays and that is a terrible pity.

The fact that the US Congress stopped aid to the Contras and also stopped funding the CIA for covert operations within Nicaragua in 1987 after the appalling revelations in the Iran-Contra scandal, was another step in the right direction. It coincided with the Arias plan for peace in the region.

Less than two months ago the terrible forces of nature again struck this unfortunate country. I refer to the terrible devastation which was wreaked on this country by hurricane Joan. While the death toll was mercifully low by 1972 standards, because of the early warning system, the economic devastation to this country is staggering. It is estimated that 350,000 people are homeless after the hurricane. That is 10 per cent of the total population of this unhappy land. The important port and trading centre of Bluefields was completely destroyed and 50,000 people are homeless in this city alone as a result of the hurricane destruction. Forty five per cent of the working population of Nicaragua are directly involved in agriculture and about a further 20 per cent of the working population are indirectly involved in the agri-food related industries. The hurricane destroyed thousands of acres of the most productive agricultural land by blowing away the fertile top soil. No-one knows yet the exact extent of this disaster or what, if anything, can be done to reinstate the land. The fishing industry was destroyed by the tidal destruction of the oyster and shrimp beds along the Atlantic coast during the hurricane. Exports of these fish species especially are an important part of the country's exports.

Much propaganda has been waged in the west and in this country against the Sandinista Government because of its Marxist approach to the land question and the internal distribution of wealth in the country. Its good relationship with Cuba and other Marxist governments has been used along with the allegation of internal oppression. It is up to the Nicaraguan people to choose the type of government they want. That is their business and the business of nobody else.

Much has been made about the state's conflict with the Catholic Church but close examination shows that many young priests and clergy support the government as do Catholics who support the new doctrine of liberation theology. The belief in liberation theology is widespread in the Church nowadays especially in Central and Latin America. The conflict with the Church has most often been with the more conservative hierarchy. A delegation from Trócaire, the Catholic Agency in Ireland for World Development, visited Nicaragua in November 1985. The members of the delegation were Bishop Eamon Casey of Galway, chairman of Trócaire, Bishop Michael Murphy of Cork, Brian McKeown, director of Trócaire and Sally O'Neill, head of projects in Trócaire. I will read to the House a seven point conclusion which they published after their return from Nicaragua:

Although the Nicaraguan Government appears to be containing the threat from the Contras, the economic effects on the country are serious.

Throughout Nicaragua popular support for the government remains high. That continued US support for the terrorist actions of the Contras, despite worldwide criticism, indicates there can be no peace until the US ceases its aggression against Nicaragua.

That, after initially giving support, the hierarchy now opposes the Sandinistas, believing the Church to be under threat; that there is, however, widespread support for the "people's Church".

That the hierarchy should be prepared to break its silence on the Contra atrocities.

That, the Contradora peace initiative must be given every encouragement as offering the best possibility of lasting peace in the region.

— that, as I have mentioned, will be more or less replaced by the Arias plan—

That tensions between Church and State can be resolved only by full and frank dialogue under the auspices of the proposed Church/State Commission.

I have read from a report on the visit of a Trócaire delegation to El Salvador, Nicaragua and Cuba in November 1985 and published by Trócaire, the Catholic Agency for World Development.

I am delighted to support this motion for a number of reasons. Nicaragua is one of the nations which have not only signed but also ratified the UN convenants on social and political rights. These convenants, which were drawn up in 1966, were presented for ratification ten years later. Ireland has signed them but has yet to ratify them. I have always felt that was a great defect because it has some importance on the way we look at the problem at home as well as the way we look at problems similar to the one in Nicaragua. The Nicaraguans have gone further. Senator Connor mentioned the disastrous way the Miskito Indian affair was managed. Since then the Nicaraguans have brought the rights of indigenous peoples into the constitution with a view to guaranteeing them their place in the country at large and seeing the development of a true pluralism.

For some years, I have been trying to have this matter debated in Seanad Éireann but the motion never reached the point of debate. If we affirm the right of all peoples to self-determination in accordance with Article 1, clause 1, of the UN covenants, then there comes a point where you have a section of the country affirming its right to self-determination, another section affirming its right and you have a recipe for chaos, or at least conflict and you cannot have that right which was important in the decolonisation of the world without qualifying it by the need to achieve consensus. I see in the Nicaraguan scene an attempt to grapple with the concept of consensus within the context of the right to self-determination. I applaud that effort, unsuccessful or unfulfilled though it may have been.

I applaud what has happened in Nicaragua for a number of reasons. The wealthy and privileged part of the world for a brief moment in 1968 was trying to say from a point of privilege what the people of Nicaragua have been saying from a point of under-privilege. When the French students went out on the streets of Paris in 1968, they were rejecting institutional imperialism, they were rejecting bureaucratic centralism, they were rejecting unaccountable autocracy and they were saying, "Let us give power back to ordinary people who are now better educated, more globally aware, more inter-communicative than ever before with new technology and let us have a say in our own affairs and give us the power to make that say effective." Unfortunately, what happened in 1968 was almost a watershed. It did not succeed in Europe and, in fact, it is in the Third World countries where people have least but where they have the greatest need to do something about their condition that we have seen strides, always under pressure, to try to create a new form of participating democracy. The tragedy is, of course, that they start off from such an insecure base and very often at great disadvantage because the country has previously been penetrated by perhaps the most exploitive forms of international capitalism, neo-imperialism and neo-colonialism.

Whatever one may say about the defects in the Nicaraguan situation and the failures that exist — and like any society there are failures as well as successes — one has to recognise the enormous struggle that has been taking place there for people to rise from their knees, stand on their feet and give expression which will ultimately gain them self-respect. This is a small nation about which we are talking. We are not talking about 50 million people let alone 400 million people. We are talking about three million people, a pimple, if you like, in the context of the world population and yet that nation has been subjected to the most extraordinary attitude and action by its very powerful neighbour, the USA.

I was delighted to hear what Sentor Murphy had to say about America because it is very easy to criticise America and Americanism, but let us not forget that America and its constitution managed to survive in the last few decades both Vietnam and Watergate. It has managed to last for 200 years and has given freedom and prosperity to many peoples of the world but, for some reason since 1945, it seems to have taken upon itself a new role in world affairs; perhaps paranoia with communism would be the most charitable way of looking at what has taken place in many parts of the world. But this terrible fear of difference, of change, of challenge of a different political philosophy on its backdoor step, albeit from three million people trying to rise from poverty, trying to obtain self-respect, seems an extraordinary overreaction on the part of such a powerful and successful nation as America. I hope and trust that this new presidency, the new Congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate, will address themselves to the problem of Nicaragua.

It seems a total irony that we have Irish Americans in North America preaching about the appalling excesses, as they see it, of injustice in Northern Ireland when, in fact, they pall by comparison with the injustice that the Nicaraguan people have suffered as a result of the USA support for the Contras. In the next St. Patrick's Day parade in New York, I would like to see an Irish delegation asking — preferably behind some delegation asking for justice in Northern Ireland — for justice for the people of Nicaragua.

I would like to pay tribute to the delegates from Ireland who went to look at the Nicaraguan elections. They were Deputy Michael Higgins, Senator, as he was then, Liam Hyland, and Deputy Bernard Allen and the illustrious proposer of this motion, Senator Ross. They represented a very broad spectrum of political opinion in Ireland and it goes without saying that they came back, even those who might have been sceptical, fairly convinced that in as far as it was possible in the conditions that prevailed elections in Nicaragua had been very fairly administered.

Let us just look briefly at what has been achieved and I emphasise that the achievements have been in spite of enormous pressure, pressure of trade embargoes, of support for anti-Sandinista forces and the disruption of years of a most terrible war in a country with very limited resources. They have held, as far as one can detect, full and fair elections. A new constitution has been created and there is now a much greater appreciation, since the debacle of the Indian problem, of the need for pluralism. We could certainly learn from that lesson. They have lifted their state of emergency. They have sought earnestly and genuinely some ceasefire with the Contras. They have a non-aligned foreign policy. As a country which claims to be pursuing a positive neutral policy in world affairs, let Ireland not forget, before we should be subsumed by some other influences, that there is a great need for the small nations of the world to remain non-aligned, to form a federation of small non-aligned nations in order to put pressure on the big nations to try to help in the disarmament process which thankfully seems to have made some sort of a beginning.

Nicaragua is symbolic of man's desire for freedom; it is symbolic of the desire of the little man and the little country to have a say in the affairs of the world and not to become part of a great amorphous conglomorate. Ireland supports a joint European declaration that extra-regional governments providing aid to non-regular forces should discontinue such aid. Therefore, I would ask the Government what are we actually doing about that in relation to America's aid to the Contras?

As far as we are concerned and how we as a people relate to Nicaragua, there are a number of things that can be done. Let me say again, as I said before, through the tremendous network of the Catholic Church around the world, we have an entrée into many countries in the Third World that are in a state of distress and it is vital even if we cannot, for financial reasons, as Senator Haughey suggested, establish diplomatic relations immediately, that we establish quasi-diplomatic relations through encouraging our youth into exchanges with the youth in Nicaragua. After all, Spanish will become a very important language in our role as Europeans: I know people in Northern Ireland who have already participated in exchanges with Nicaragua. We could have exchanges at university level. There could be trade union exchanges, cultural exchanges and professional exchanges.

Our profession is trained brilliantly to meet the requirements of the high-tech super-medicine of the western world. While we pride ourselves on a lower infant mortality rate and a longer life expectancy if taken in a global sense we are living in a world where the life expectancy is less today than it was 20 years ago and infant mortality is greater. One only has to think of the population explosion and the inability to cope with the social conditions that exist in a world of depleting natural resources because of the way in which they are being exploited. The fact is that the biggest explosion is in Third World countries where there is least capacity to sustain that explosion. There is a need for professional people to learn from Nicaragua.

We could go there and learn about the co-operatives, about the mixed economy and how the inter-relationship that exists between the private state section and the co-operatives works and see if it might be relevant to our country; to decentralise our society and give back to our people the power, self-respect and self-esteem that is so badly needed where we live and where we work so that we are not so dependent on remote bureaucratic forces, certainly in the North of Ireland, which are totally unaccountable to us.

I applaud the struggle that has been taking place in Nicaragua to give people self-respect. I recognise the difficulties, the dangers and the failures. There have been failures. We must be able to monitor those failures and we must be able to chastise where it is necessary. For those reasons we need to establish diplomatic relations with a country where we will have the respect of that country because, in a sense, Ireland is the bridge between the privileged world and the Third World for many reasons which were mentioned here before. It is vital that we apply ourselves to the possibility to establishing diplomatic relations. In the meantime we should urge the maximum contact with Nicaragua in order to learn from and help Nicaragua and also perhaps to act ourselves as a respected monitor of what is happening there.

I am very honoured to have my name associated with this important motion. The fact that it has been selected and taken by the Independent group indicates our seriousness with regard to the whole issue of foreign affairs. There have been a number of foreign affairs debates, including some which the Government made time for, which originated from this side of the House and this clearly underlines the importance, recognised widely, of the establishment of a foreign affairs committee. We are very glad that we have done this, that it is up and running and we believe that it will be a very important committee.

It is generally felt throughout the House that there must be an accountability in foreign affairs that is lacking at the moment. I wonder sometimes, listening to responses from various Ministers in this area, who precisely is writing the foreign policy of this country because there is very little accountability. I have looked back over the Official Report of previous parliamentary sessions and there is a suspicious consistency of tone. For example, I have looked back to the period when this situation was brought to the attention of senior political figures in the past. As far back as 1984, a very distinguished member of the Dáil, Deputy Frank Cluskey, raised this matter outside the immediate context of a parliamentary debate but looking for further information in correspondence with Deputy Peter Barry. I have a copy of the letter that he received in answer to his query. The letter states that "with regard to the question of establishing diplomatic relations with Nicaragua the present position is that due to limited financial and personnel resources we are not in a position to establish diplomatic relations even on a non-resident basis with Nicaragua at this time." It was pointed out, however, that formal diplomatic relations in the sense of having a mission accredited to a country on a resident or non-resident basis are maintained by us only with a minority of countries up to the present time. The absence of formal diplomatic relations does not in any way affect the recognition by us of the Government of Nicaragua as the legitimate Government of that state nor does it constitute any barrier to the continuing friendly contacts between Ireland and Nicaragua and various international fora in which words of support were uttered on behalf of this country or trotted out here.

That aspect of the matter is pathetically weak. It is easy to lend one's voice in the comfortable camouflage of a European context to protect us from the wrath of those who may be offended, for example, in Washington. I note that on 24 March 1987 a similar response was given by Deputy Lenihan in response to a question from Deputy Proinsias De Rossa of The Workers' Party. Deputy Lenihan replied saying:

The question of diplomatic relations is kept under continuous review in the light of our international interests and the availability of the necessary resources. The Government have no plans at present to establish formal diplomatic relations with Nicaragua.

We heard this evening from Senator Haughey that while it might be the moral thing to establish formal diplomatic relations with Nicaragua he asked if we could afford it? Is that not an interesting question? Is the basis of Irish political morality based on what we can afford and only what we can afford, particularly when that question amounts to virtually zero because we are talking about a situation in which the Nicaraguan Ambassador in London would be accredited to Dublin and some similar arrangement would be made with regard to our representation in Nicaragua. Let us not have any of this nonsense about expense. That is just a smokescreen.

It is interesting that there is such a consistency of line here and it suggests to me that certain significant areas of the foreign policy of this country, because they were not subject to scrutiny until quite recently, and at the moment not with Government recognition by any foreign affairs committee, can escape into an area where they are dictated in an arena and by people who are not apparently accountable to the Oireachtas. This is very worrying. It is particularly worrying when we are told that there is a kind of simoniacal situation in foreign policy by which I mean that we can only afford that kind of morality for which there is a precise financial equation. That is shameful particularly when it is placed in the light of what is happening in Nicaragua.

I will not rehearse the history of it in detail. There has been a lot of information given to the House with regard to the situation in Nicaragua but surely this country is in a position, better than any other, to appreciate the situation of Nicaragua. As a neutral country, we are in a position to have a moral influence. It is important that we, as friends of America, and we are friends of America, live up to our obligation to tell those friends when they are making serious mistakes.

The mistakes of the American Administration over a long period of years have been mistakes so serious as to place them within the realms of international criminal aggression. There is no doubt about this and the Americans know it. Some of the most conservative Americans know it to such an extent that their language becomes unusually vulgar. Barry Goldwater, a Presidential candidate, who was regarded as one of the most right-wing of all people responded to the situation when in 1984, the CIA, acting on the instructions of the Reagan Administration had placed mines in the harbours of Port Corinto, Porto Sandino and El Bluff, an act of military aggression against a friendly neighbouring State without a declaration of war, without the consent of Congress and in flagrant defiance of international law by writing to the Director of the CIA. At this point, Senator Goldwater was Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and his terms were rather strong. He said "I am pissed off — this is an act violating international law. It is an act of war ...".

That is unparliamentary language and will Senator Norris please withdraw it. I do not care who you were quoting, you are not going to use such language here.

May I just point out — of course, if I am instructed to withdraw it I will have to withdraw it — that it is interesting. This is a perfect illustration. What is going on in Nicaragua is an obscenity. It was recognised as such by Goldwater to such an extent that he wrote in this manner. In any case——

I have ruled on the matter, Senator Norris, you can make a point without using bad language because nobody has a better command of English than you.

With respect, Senator Goldwater's command of English obviously was not as good as Senator Norris'.

I have ruled.

In the interests of Irish public morality, perhaps I can provide an accommodation that will be particularly appropriate in view of the Administration which we are dealing with in America. Barry Goldwater said: "I am (expletive deleted). This is an act violating international law. It is an act of war. For the life of me I do not know how we are going to explain it." They had, of course, great difficulty but an attempt was made to tie their hands with the Boland amendment which should have cut off funding——

Before the adjournment of the debate, will you tell me Senator, what you are quoting from?

I am quoting from a letter from Senator Barry Goldwater quoted in a book called Out of Control by Lesley Cockburn published by Bloomsbury.

Will Senator Norris please move the adjournment of the debate?

I think we should prepare ourselves, those of us who are so sensitive to these unmentionable words, that he may well quote the next time from the late President Lyndon Johnson and then you will have some task.

I move the adjournment of the debate. I wonder if I will get a minute's injury time for the grammatical discussion?

Debate adjourned.

When is it proposed to sit again?

It is proposed to sit at 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 23 November 1988.

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