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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 May 1989

Vol. 122 No. 14

Televising and Broadcasting of Seanad Proceedings: Motion.

I move:

That—

(i) the proceedings of the Seanad of Wednesday, 10th May, 1989, be televised in edited form by Radio Telefís Éireann under the same conditions (in so far as they are applicable) in operation for sound broadcasting as laid down in the resolution of the House of the 8th July, 1987,

(ii) the resolution of the House of the 8th July, 1987, providing for the edited sound broadcasting of the proceedings of the Seanad and Oireachtas Committees by Radio Telefís Éireann be extended for the lifetime of this Seanad.

In moving this motion I would like to give an explanation to the House about what happened last week. It was suggested that I was withdrawing this motion because certain people outside this House did not want this motion to appear and that there were difficulties about it. My difficulty last week was that when I came to Dublin I was approached by people from the media — radio, television and newspapers — suggesting that there were certain rumours going around the House as to the attitude of various people towards the televising of the opening of the new Chamber and the business on that particular day. I felt it was necessary, because of the innuendo and rumours that were being spread, that I should have a look at the facts. I felt that my authority, as Leader of the House, would have been totally undermined if there had been any truth in those stories.

As I said on that day, the motion would appear and remain on the Order of Business. It is before us this evening. On examination I found that, unfortunately, rumours breed rumours and that we should never do anything but discount them. They do nothing for the credibility of the people who spread them or for the people who try to extend them. The purpose of the motion is twofold. It is to authorise the edited televising by RTE of the Seanad proceedings on Wednesday, 10 May, the first day's sitting in the reconstructed Seanad Chamber. It is an exciting day for the House. It is a day we have all been waiting for for some time. Equally, we wish to extend the lifetime of existing arrangements for radio broadcasting to the end of this Seanad.

And that we will all be there for a long time without interruption.

I have no worries that we will all be here for quite a long time. In regard to televising, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges felt that televising on 10 May was an appropriate way to honour our return to the Seanad Chamber. It is a once off event. It is specifically to commemorate our first day's sitting in the new Chamber. It is a separate matter altogether from whatever arrangements are finally agreed as to the permanent televising of the Seanad proceedings which, in all probability, will be in conjunction with the Dáil and Oireachtas Committees.

The Committee on Procedure and Privileges are favourably disposed to televising the Seanad on a permanent basis but we are not discussing that here this evening. We are discussing a once-off televising event. Hopefully, this once off televising of an ordinary day in the Seanad, even though it be in our rebuilt Chamber, will give a lot of our detractors cause to rethink. For that reason alone, I particularly welcome it.

The televising of the proceedings of 10 May is an historic first. Up to now any special events, such as an address to both Houses by a visiting Head of State or visiting Prime Minister, have been televised. These occasions have been few and far between — four in all. The televising of proceedings represents a unique opportunity for the Seand to put its best face forward. I am not speaking about "best faces" in terms of what people can do in getting rid of 5 o'clock shadow or whatever. We must do so to take on the critics who say, usually out of ignorance, that the Seanad should be abolished, and to redress the imbalance where for too long, the Upper House has been regarded as the poor cousin of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

The arrangements for the sitting of 10 May are to be finalised shortly between the group leaders and the Whips. They have already met. The technical details so far as possible have been arranged from our side. Unfortunately, I do not know exactly what arrangements have been made from the television side because we have had no communication from them. I presume they will do an excellent job as has been done by RTE each week in "Today in the Oireachtas." The programme format will essentially be the same as the existing radio broadcasts. The same restrictions will apply to the latter as apply to the future use by RTE in rebroadcasts. Nobody need worry that film or sound which might be produced here next Wednesday could be used in an inconsequential way. There will be inconveniences for Members next week but I do not think they will be of any significance. At least there will not be the same inconvenience for not alone the Members but for staff that there was over the past number of months.

I have great pleasure in moving this motion.

It gives me great pleasure to support this motion. At the outset, I thank the Leader of the House for giving us a full explanation of what happened last week. Indeed, there were strange rumours floating around the House why the motion was not moved last week. I am very happy — and I was at the time — to accept as I always would, the assurances of the Leader of the House that the situation was as he said. I am glad that particular item was cleared up very speedily after the Order of Business last week. We now all know that what happened was one of those accidents caused by a breakdown in communications at some level rather than anything sinister on anybody's part. I suppose, in the slightly jittery atmosphere of these times, that this may have slightly pre-dated the slight case of jitters around at the moment. These things can happen in a House like this or in the Joint Houses. There is no greater place in Ireland for rumours of various sorts than this complex of Houses. Sometimes one needs to be away from these environs to get an objective view of things.

I have great pleasure in welcoming the substance of the two parts of the motion here this evening. First, it is a matter of great relief and joy to all of us that we will be leaving this ante Chamber which has housed us now for two or three years. We have operated in very cramped conditions in an atmosphere which is not, and was not, conducive to what is the second House of a national Parliament. All of us — the Cathaoirleach, the staff, reporters and Members — have shown great patience over the last two and a half to three years putting up with our conditions. Those of us who have seen the restored Chamber know that the wait was probably worthwhile. The Chamber we are going back to next week is, as we will see next week, a great credit to all who are involved with its restoration. It is entirely appropriate that our first day back should be televised and that the Irish public should be given an opportunity to see the Seanad Chamber and also to participate in the activities of the Seanad on that historic day.

I certainly hope that the move to have the proceedings of both Houses broadcast regularly on television is not very far away. The attitude that radio and television should not have access to Parliament is very much an outdated one. The Parliament is open to the public. Technology has made it possible for the proceedings of Parliament to be heard and seen almost as they happen throughout the country. It is a very real extension of democracy that we are now moving in this direction, and I hope we move in this direction with great speed.

As the Leader said, it is a one-off day next week. I certainly hope that on that day, we will show the best side of the Seanad. The group leaders have met. We have drawn up the procedures for the day. I am sure they will be adhered to and that the public will get a view of the type of constructive work that makes up most of the timetable of this House.

I am glad it is the Seanad that is the first House to be televised. We were the first in terms of radio broadcasting. We always — this is not in any way an invidious remark — have been a bit more open, adventurous and enlightened than those in the other House on matters of this kind. I look forward to a time in the near future when the proceedings of both Houses will be broadcast on a regular basis.

On the question in the second part of the motion to continue with the sound broadcasting of proceedings here, I would like to pay a tribute to the editorial staff in RTE who carry out this work on a daily basis. There were many people in the early stages who were suspicious that there would be editorial bias, that there would not be fair play, that there might be favouritism or there might be distortions of some kind in the editorial control of broadcasting. I have to say, and I think everybody would agree with me, that the editorial staff in RTE have been scrupulously fair in the way in which they have edited and presented the proceedings of this House. My only complaint — it is a strong complaint but it is not the fault of the editorial staff of RTE — is that the broadcasts are too short; that there is not enough time given and that the proceedings in this House can be relegated to a point which their substance might not always warrant.

I hope as we move into the era of a greater number of radio stations we may have a situation where the proceedings of both Houses will be broadcast in full. That happens in other countries. There would be a market for it; it would not be very expensive and it would greatly extend the right of access of the public to what is happening in the Houses of Parliament. I hope we are coming to that stage. I believe there would be a ready market for that type of broadcasting and it certainly would not be expensive.

On the question of coverage of this House generally, I have to note the disappointment that has been expressed by the Leader of the House on a number of occasions about the absence of coverage of this House in The Irish Press, the small amount of coverage in the Irish Independent. Conversely, may I pay tribute both to The Cork Examiner and The Irish Times, both of which are very diligent in their coverage of the activities of this House. They are diligent, accurate and they deserve to be commended for the effort they put into ensuring that the activities here are reported.

I am very happy to be associated with the motion proposed by the Leader of the House and to report also that there was general agreement as to the rules and regulations for next week.

I am glad to get an opportunity very briefly to welcome this motion. I am also very pleased that we are moving back to the other Chamber because it has been very difficult for everybody in this room, for the Cathoirleach, for the Members, for the Clerk and his Assistant and indeed the members of the press. It is marvellous that this move coincides with the first televising of the Seanad.

I would also like to pay tribute to the excellent job which was done by Radio Éireann in editing the reports. I ask myself with regard to the sound broadcasting and the televising if it brings any benefit to the House, and I am sure that it does. I believe the public have to know what is going on here. The broadcasting will enhance the reputation of this House. It must do that, but Standing Orders and the proceedings in this House do not lend themselves to what I would regard as modern television programmes. Other Members have spoken about this in the past. For example, with regard to Second Stage debates, it should be possible to come in more than once. Very often in the course of the debates a Member makes a point which is worthy of following up but if somebody has already spoken on that Stage he or she cannot come in again. That should be looked at, even to the extent that perhaps the time might be reduced. Also, it should be possible that Members of the Seanad should get information as in the Dáil.

The Senator is going a little away from the motion.

With respect, I do not think I am. I am simply saying that at this stage when we are moving into the era of television it is time to take a look at this House and see if the rules are outdated. I believe they are. Matters of an urgent nature could be taken up in this House but it is not possible to do so at the moment. I simply want to make that point and I feel that it is relevant. All of us in this House would want to feel that the image projected would be a proper one. What I am saying is that it would take tremendous editing of long speeches to extract what is considered best for transmission. It would be desirable that at this stage stage, or very shortly, we would be able to take a look at the procedures in this House. It may be a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges but at least we could make a recommendation to them. In doing that it would not alone result in good television but it would also help the workings of this House. I welcome the motion.

I would also like to be associated with many of the remarks that have been passed with regard to the assistance of the staff in having us settle into this Chamber. Certainly, it has been far from comfortable for any of us, the staff, ourselves as elected Members and the press. More particularly, my greatest regret over the past couple of years is that we have had many schoolchildren visit the Houses of the Oireachtas and it was a source of great disappointment to the teachers and to the students that they were unable to visit and witness the Seanad proceedings during the time we have been out of the Chamber.

It has never been easy for school groups to visit the Seanad because they have to come right through the House from the Dáil Chamber and into the Seanad Chamber but at least a percentage of them could be facilitated when we were in the other Chamber. I have no doubt that there is still the same public gallery in the new Chamber. I have not seen it but I am sure it is still there, and I hope that every effort will be made to have as many school groups as possible visit the Seanad when it is sitting. We are not always sitting, of course, when school groups visit Leinster House and I have been at the receiving end when these children were disappointed they could not visit the Seanad Chamber. I hope many more of them will be able to visit in the future.

I want to say a word of appreciation to the Cathaoirleach for keeping us fully informed of all the proceedings. There were big partitions in position and we did not seem to be able to get on the other side of them but the Cathaoirleach kept us fully informed as to what was happening on that side. I am glad we are all here to witness our return to the Chamber and that the move was possible in the lifetime of this Seanad. It is inevitable that some Senators will not be members of the next Seanad so I hope we will be in our new Chamber for some time to come and that will not be out on the hustings too quickly.

Question put and agreed to.
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