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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Feb 1990

Vol. 123 No. 17

Marine Institute Bill, 1989: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I must say that it has been rather irritating to have had so many interruptions in this debate. I realise that important business had to be done, not least the last item on the Order Paper. Nonetheless, I find my train of thought has been very much fragmented in the course of the last hour.

While the idea of the Bill is very welcome, it is belated and many things in it will disappoint. I will be hoping for ministerial reassurance on these matters. My impression of the Bill is borne out by people to whom I have shown the Bill. It is that it is a kind of "Let us get this out of the way Bill"—"Let us set up this institute and get shut of it". There is that impression about the Bill. There is not an impression of setting up a major semi-State body to embark on major reform of a vital part of our economy but rather of the setting up of a tame committee. There is no obligation in the Bill on the Minister to take note of the expertise already existing or of the prestige attaching to any particular individuals or institutes. He can, in effect, set up his own committee. It looks like an ad hoc response to the work of the task force of some years ago.

Similarly, the scope of the Bill seems to me disproportionate to the various interests I have talked about and the various interests of all the scientists involved in research in this country. Admittedly, I must concede that the Minister's own speech enlarges on the Bill itself — his speech is more comprehensive than the Bill. Nonetheless, the Bill seems to concentrate fairly shortsightedly on immediate economic development. There is no great environmental awareness in the Bill. Nothing is excluded, but there is no great harping on ecology, on the environment or on the wider awareness of marine usage.

Another disappointment is that the importance of the coastal zone is not stressed. In section 1 there is a coastal reference, but there is no particular emphasis on it. There is no specific development of it. As Senators Fitzgerald and Ó Foighil will acknowledge, there is much more important research going on in the coastal zone than in the open sea.

But my main concern with the Bill is that it does not recognise the work being done by bodies like Bord Iascaigh Mhara, Údarás na Gaeltachta, the universities and so on. They should have been included in the Bill and provision made for their representation in the Institute. Like many another Bill we have addressed in this House, it suffers from the usual Government caution about putting everything under ministerial control and the reluctance to commit the Minister to any wider consultation. There is disappointingly little reference to the existing state of research, to which I referred in some detail. The task force is not acknowledged very much except in the Minister's speech, but not in the Bill itself. I would have to differ also with a passage in the Minister's speech in which he talks about the undersirability of locating the Institute in any single campus. He talks about a waste of resources by setting up a physical centre for the Institute. At the same time the Minister must balance that with the need for decentralisation. The Cork area, for example, is particularly well equipped to head up a marine research institute with the developments in UCC, in Lough Inagh, in Matt Murphy's work in the Sherkin Island research station in, the hydraulics research laboratory and so on. All these extensive programmes, along with the fisheries development in Bantry Bay and on Béara peninsula, surely suggest that consideration should be given to locating some of the work of the institute in that area.

Under the auspices of the European Community, the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions recommended that a marine research centre should be located in Cork. The Minister will already know of all this, because in June 1987 a combination of Cork bodies, including the corporation, the county council, the harbour commissioners, UCC and the regional technical college, submitted a memorandum to the Government on the proposed location of Roinn na Mara, including the Marine Research and Technology Institute, as it was called at that time.

Therefore, I have become very interested in this Bill. One of the times a University Senator feels most useful is when he or she is representing the expert opinion of his colleagues, who really are seeking a voice in this matter and who want their views expressed in Seanad Éireann. Bills like this remind us that this House has a particular role to play in legislation and that the vocational dimension comes into play very much.

I welcome the Bill as far as it goes but it falls short of expectations generally. I hope above all that the Marine Institute will not go the way of the Agricultural Institute and that it will not die for lack of funding for research. I always like to welcome Bills wholeheartedly. I have grave reservations on this one but I welcome it to that extent and I await the Minister's reply.

I, too, would like to welcome this Bill and I would like to compliment the Department of the Marine and the Minister. I agree with some of the remarks made by previous speakers that it is overdue but it has come at last. I would like to support a few remarks made by Senator Murphy, in particular his concluding remarks about the suitability of Cork as a proper and fit location for this new Institute. I would also like to join with Senator Murphy in the complimentary remarks he paid to University College, Cork, and the work they are doing in this area. Similarly, I would like to compliment the Marine Research Station in Sherkin Island, headed by Matt Murphy, who works with me in the coastal management committee which is a sub-committee of Cork County Council. Matt Murphy is a pioneer in research and had done excellent work, together with his family in Sherkin Island, over the past decade or more. In particular, he has held a number of international conferences in Cork which focused attention in the right direction as far as this Institute is concerned.

I would also like to compliment our own coastal management committee in their endeavours to provide some finance, little though it is, for the provision of an educational facility to be commenced throughout the coastal towns in Cork for the promotion and education of students to make them aware of the benefits of mariculture and aquaculture in particular.

I was born on the shores of Bantry Bay, the son of a fisherman. With the development of the mussel industry and the provision of salmon cages Bantry Bay has become the mariculture capital of Ireland. The position with the fishing industry in general is that it was for many years, at least three decades, the poor relation of the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. This was unfortunate. If we look at statistics we see that we have 25 per cent of EC waters and yet we get 4 per cent of its catch. It is an astonishing fact that an island with major potential has been neglected by successive Governments.

This institute can be of particular benefit. I will be parochial in view of the problems in the Cork region. We have had on a regular basis the rape of our waters and fishing stocks by large international trawlers for many years. In many instances these trawlers are not from EC countries. Vessels of Spanish ownership are being apprehended by our protection vessels and are brought ashore. The reality is that the numbers of foreign trawlers brought into our ports and that have to face the rigours of the law for the breach of our national waters represent just the tip of the iceberg.

All around the coast the new institute has a role to play. I refer to the situation with regard to the salmon industry. I am particularly concerned that there is an ongoing clash and that serious incidents have occurred off our coastline when salmon fishermen have been brought to the notice of patrol vessels. A solution must be found to this problem. On one side there are the inland fishery people who feel there are not enough wild salmon coming up the rivers. They are concerned, and rightly so, about the possible adverse effect this can have on our tourism and on the economy. It is internationally recognised that except for Scotland there are few, if any, rivers or clear waters in Europe where salmon are still available. We are fortunate in Ireland that we have many such rivers and this is something that we must preserve. The proper scientific and technological approach by this new institute can only enhance and encourage the development of our estuaries and rivers. It is a known fact that there is massive potential, particularly for the tourist industry, in ensuring that rivers are properly stocked and keep pollution free.

It is an appalling fact that over the past decade or so we have had a number of serious instances of pollution in our rivers from industrial sources. Sometimes farmers are responsible for the discharge of effluent, such as silage and in other instances local authorities have been guilty of polluting our rivers and harbours. This must be curtailed. I welcome the efforts of the Department of the Environment who are currently ensuring that pollution is kept to the minimum. Much of this pollution was due to lack of knowledge and lack of scientific back-up. In this respect I believe that the new institute will have a vital role to play. I would congratulate the environmental department of Cork County Council on their efforts in this regard. We have an excellent environmental officer, Brian McCutcheon, backed up by a team of 18 or 19 people, and they are currently embarking on efforts to try to minimise the pollution of our rivers, etc.

Again I may be a little parochial, but I am concerned that over the last two or three years we had this famous "greening" of the River Lee. There seems to be conflicting views about the causes and effects of such greening. The reality is that it is a relatively new phenomenon and it is one that the new institute will have a role to play in ensuring, possibly in co-operation with the local authority, that this is properly investigated. We are assured by the environmental experts that so far as the fish stocks and indeed the water from the River Lee, the drinking water etc., are concerned, there is no adverse effect revealed by the greening, but it is an area that must be looked at. This is one of the most important waterways in Europe. By proper research and pinpointing the source, this greening can be eliminated and overcome.

In regard to salmon, there is the ongoing conflict about whether or not monofiliment nets should be legalised. I accept that as the law stands the monofilament net is illegal. But the reality is that in my area — and I speak for most of the coast of County Cork and parts of Kerry — and from my experience and knowledge of the fishermen concerned, no other net is used. I have great sympathy for the genuine onshore fisherman with a vessel of possibly 30 or 40 ft., half deckers and, possibly, open boats, who have licences and who are trying to eke out a decent living. The problem arises with the big vessels — indeed, in some instances they are not Irish vessels — eight, ten, 15 or 20 miles off our shores with seven and eight miles of monofilament net catching thousands of salmon. It is they who are really doing the damage.

This is an aspect that must be addressed. In fact, if we take the argument further, I believe that we must learn from the endeavours of people like the Canadians and, the Norwegians, who have made great efforts to preserve the salmon stocks and have done a lot of scientific and technological research into the development of the salmon industry in their areas. In this respect I believe that the new institute has an important role to play, because I am convinced that there is not sufficient research into the pattern of the salmon. We know a lot about that species, but one puzzling feature I could never obtain an explanation of was this. In 1986 and 1987 we had two relatively bad years off our coastline for the fishing of salmon. We had poor catches, resulting in enormous prices per pound being paid for salmon. Yet in 1988 — and this has baffled the scientists as well — we had record catches for that year around our coastline resulting in salmon prices falling as low as £1.60p per lb., probably less than half what was paid the previous year.

More research can and must be done to preserve our salmon stocks. The simple banning of the monofilament net and the disabling of approximately 80 genuine salmon fishermen along the Cork coastline, the largest in Ireland, will not in itself solve the problem. There is a view among the bona fide fishermen who eke out a living from salmon fishing that they are prepared to work a five day week and observe the law of the land, so to speak, providing they are allowed to use a certain limited amount of monofilament net, limited in length to the extent of not more than 800 metres and in depth to not more than 30 meshes. This was a proposal put forward by the coastal management committee of County Cork. It was a genuine proposal. Unfortunately, it is these people, these bona fide inland fishermen, who in most cases are, I will use the word "harassed" by the patrol vessels, and this, unfortunately has resulted in some relatively serious incidents around our coastline. I stress that the problem is not near the shore. It is not caused by the small fisherman who has been traditionally fishing the salmon, but it is caused by the larger vessels fishing with miles of net off our coastline.

Another problem I believe this new Institute can focus attention on, and hopefully remedy, is a new phenomenon occurring around our coastline and, I believe, not heard of until the last decade of the 1980s. I refer to the problem of wrecks along our shoreline. I will instance the Ranga, which came ashore off Slea Head and has lain there for many years on a nice sandy beach. It is a deplorable sight to the eye. One wonders where are we going in this regard. I will next instance the case of the Bardini Reefer, which in my view was scuttled in the harbour between Bere Island and Castletownbere, the second largest fishing port in Ireland. It is sticking up there. The mast is over water. It is partly submerged and is creating problems of access to and from the island for the island people and for tourists. It is also creating problems for the fishermen seeking to gain access to the port of Castlebownbere. This is a disgrace. It has been lying there for about six or seven years. Here is a case where this vessel came in, was abandoned and sank in the harbour. This should not be allowed to happen. The Institute has a role to play in the monitoring of traffic along our shoreline. Off the south-west coastline we have one of the busiest shipping lanes. There was the unfortunate tragedy of the Betelgeuse which claimed the lives of 50 people at the jetty of Whiddy Island on the night of 8 January 1979. That vessel was refused access to a European port and yet we allowed this vessel to dock. Apart from claiming 50 lives it crippled the whole industry of oil storage in Whiddy and was to sound its death knell.

Next I will come to the famous or infamous Kowloon Bridge, which arrived at my own bay of Bantry Bay. People may say I am being parochial, but Bantry Bay is the second best bay in the world. The Kowloon Bridge was granted shelter there. The massive vessel, carrying a cargo of semi-refined iron ore, lay in the bay for two or three days. It then took to sea and, fearing its floundering, the crew were airlifted from this vessel. The vessel was then careering around the Atlantic off our coastline and eventually took up residence on the Stags Head off Castletownsend. This vessel is no longer an eyesore; it is now totally submerged. But it lies adjacent to one of the richest herring spawning grounds around our coastline.

To come to more current matters, at the moment we have the unfortunate situation, again in Bantry Bay that adjacent to the lighthouse there is a huge Spanish trawler lying on the rocks. I wonder what is to become of it. I would urge the Department, the Minister and the new institute to consider policies for the patrolling of our waters. One of our seamen lost his life going to the aid of this trawler.

On the question of wrecks, we come to the current question of the Tribulus now anchored in Bantry Bay. Here again there is a conflict about what one does in a situation like this. The Minister was correct in his decision in allowing this vessel safe anchorage in Bantry Bay. There was no other bay or harbour around our coastline that could provide suitable anchorage for this vessel. Just to go back on the Kowloon Bridge, nobody seemed to know who owned that vessel. It cost the ratepayers of this country approximately £1 million. There is a lack of policy here. In this current situation we are a little more fortunate in so far as the Tribulus is owned by a reputable company, Shell, who have co-operated since its anchorage in Bantry Bay, with the Department of the Marine Officials, with the Department of the Environment, with the Cork County Council and with the local fishermen. They are doing everything possible to ensure that the vessel will be repaired and that it will leave Bantry Bay safely without the loss of lives and so on.

In Bantry Bay there is a very important mariculture industry, a multi-million pound industry, and there are other types of activities. Apart from scalloping, there is an excellent herring bed, and there is the salmon farming around Bear Island. There is a conflict here. Is Bantry Bay going to be continuously used as a haven, having regard to the fact that in every given instance there is every chance that the local indigenous industries will be jeopardised? Again, the Tribulus is a huge vessel containing as far as I am aware, raw ore. There was the fear for a number of days in Bantry — I lived with it also — that this vessel could have broken up. Luckily, it has not. The weather seems to be improving. If the vessel does break up we will have a serious problem. As I said, I think the Minister was right in his decision. The Tribulus was not in the same category as the Kowloon Bridge. It was a vessel that, due to adverse weather conditions, was allowed into Bantry Bay.

For the future, the Marine Institute and the Department must look at this policy. If there was major oil pollution in Bantry Bay it would wipe out the mariculture and aquaculture developments to date. I would hope that a set of policies and a set of criteria would be set down. It would be on the lines of the current situation. Shell immediately set up offices in Bantry and assured the county council and the Department that any damage caused would be fully indemnified by them. That was not the case with the Kowloon Bridge nor the Bardini Reefer. They assured the local fishermen, that in the event of any loss being sustained by them, they would be adequately and properly compensated. They assured the local community concerned with tourism and the ecology generally that any loss would be monitored. They brought in international experts who, together with the Department of the Marine officials, have ensured that any pollution to date — and, thankfully, it has been minimal — has been quickly mopped up. The problem posed by the abandonment of oil tankers or other large vessels in Bantry Bay, which might constitute serious pollution problems, must be addressed.

On the question of aquaculture and mariculture generally, the institute can play a role in the proper development of this futuristic and economically important industry for the State. After the Gulf-Chevron pull out in Bantry a few local people, by trial and error, decided to experiment with the farming of mussels. In the first two or three years they learned by their mistakes. If they had had the back-up of the Marine Institute, with experts who could help them with research and scientific data and knowledge, many of the mistakes would not have been made. In the first instance they put out rafts. Unwittingly, they did not realise that, because of the effect of the Gulf Stream and the warm waters coming off the mouth of Bantry Bay and so on, the mussels would grow to maturity and to a state for processing in so short a time. It was generally believed that this would take somewhere in the region of 15 to 18 months. The pioneers in mussel development in Bantry Bay learned to their surprise — and, I suppose, initially to their loss — that this was to cause problems, because most of the rafts sank with the weight of the mussels. They then moved on to the long line system, which has proved enormously successful.

I would like to compliment the Department of the Marine on their efforts over the past number of years in helping and supporting the mussel industry in the Bantry Bay area, My view is that there are still some teething problems, possibly due to overintensification of farming causing a poor meat content in the mussel and a slower growth. This can be resolved by proper research and scientific knowledge. Along our coastline from Malin Head to Mizen Head there are opportunities for development. I am using the mussel industry by way of example rather than regarding it as being the exclusive type of industry there. There is potential also for scallop farming, clams, oysters, etc.

The value of these industries to our economy is that they look to 1990 and the next century. There is great potential, and the new institute will have a significant role to play in the back-up of such industries. Going back four or five years ago, the mussels coming from Bantry Bay alone kept a factory in Scotland who processed them, and employed 40 people, going almost 12 months of the year. We have since then come a step forward in that we are now, thankfully, processing a certain percentage of these mussels locally.

That is the type of thing — and it was touched upon earlier by Senator Fitzgerald — we should also have a fresh look at — the bringing ashore of our natural indigenous products. Senator Fitzgerald referred to other species of fish. For many years — and it is still the case — about 80 per cent of the catches coming into Castletownbere were taken by lorry out of the country and processed abroad. That is an unfortunate situation which must be remedied. As Senator Fitzgerald said, in many instances, through lack of knowledge or scientific back-up, a lot of the fish that came ashore deteriorated and left our country in less than satisfactory condition. These fish should be processed here. We should look to the improvement of the quality of the fish being landed. In the mussel industry at present we have a problem of crustaceans on the mussels. This is a sort of growth. It does no harm to the actual food of the mussel, but from a presentation and marketing point of view it is unsightly and has created problems. It will continue to create problems until it is resolved. With proper scientific research and back-up this can be overcome.

On the question of competing with our European partners, the French have designed and pioneered another type of mussel farming. In Bantry Bay our mussels are mainly long line; in Wexford we have the dredging of mussels, which is a different system; but the French have gone a step forward in so far as they now have developed and pioneered a system whereby long line mussels can be anchored and submerged about 30 feet under the sea surface. The advantage of that is that one can farm mussels in deeper and less sheltered waters than, say, the inner harbour of Bantry Bay. The whole purpose of the submerging of these lines is, I understand, to minimise the effect of wave power and swell, because, apparently, the higher you are on the water the more friction is caused and the more damage to mussels. There is potential for the development of new techniques, and this is where this new institute has an important role to play. The important thing about mariculture, aquaculture and mussel farming is that there are no "mussel mountains". There is a potential market in France and throughout Britain for the mussel grown off our coastline because of its quality etc. We must research this area because in the future there is potential there for job creation and economic development off our coastline.

As mentioned earlier by Senator Murphy, there is an ongoing debate, which has not yet been resolved, about the problems being created by the farming in cages of salmon and sea trout, particularly in regard to what effect the farm salmon would have on the wild salmon population if they got loose. The argument stems from the fact that the salmon naturally finds its way up the river, whereas the farm salmon lacks this basic impulse. There is an argument that if the wild salmon were to mix with the fresh salmon it would create a deficient breed of salmon and would cause problems for the future. The institute will have a role to play here in trying to ascertain what the proper approach is. There are a lot of myths about at the moment. Next door to my own bay in Kenmare Bay there is an ongoing battle between, on one hand, the local fishermen who want to promote and establish salmon and trout farms in the bay and certain other interests, who also may have a valid point and who feel that that would be undesirable in a scenic area such as Kenmare Bay. Both sides put forward very compelling arguments. However, I think that this new institute, with proper scientific research, could help to resolve that problem — a problem which, I feel, is just the tip of the iceberg. I believe it will escalate, but I hope a balanced debate can resolve the problem. Interestingly enough, I read that the Canadians, in relation to their fish farming, have devised a method whereby they do a lot of the farming of salmon upriver. They are released from the cages after a year or a year and half. They go down the river but eventually — and hopefully for the Canadians — find their way back into the cages. However, the success or failure of this remains to be seen.

I mentioned the problem of wrecks along our coastline which seems to be concentrated along the south-west coast. I fear it will become a long term problem. I would like to pay particular tribute to the Department of the Marine and the Minister for the handling of the vessel, the Tribulus, in Bantry Bay. I omitted to do that in my earlier remarks.

In relation to salmon farming, trout farming etc., I had the privilege of visiting the western isles of Scotland, where they are more advanced in their technology, know-how and experience than we are. If you go further afield, the Norwegians and the Canadians are indeed very advanced. The proportion of farmed salmon that is provided from Ireland is very tiny in comparison to what the Norwegians supply to the European market. Of course, in Scotland and the western isles, they have one very important fact in their favour. They had direct access to European funds over the last decade which enabled them to develop that industry.

As mentioned in the Minister's speech, we lack the scientific and technological advantage that the Norwegians, Canadians and Scots have. This is where this new institute has an important role to play. This applies across the board not alone to the mariculture and aquaculture scene. I may have concentrated on those, but I did not want to overlap points made by my colleague, Senator Fitzgerald, with regard to other species of fish.

There is a lot to be learned about the movement of the shoals of herring and so on. The Canadians, in particular, are continuing their research into this. That is another area, where, because of the lack of a marine institute over the last number of years, we have been at a loss.

Another area of importance under the umbrella of the Department of the Marine in which the institute can have a positive rôle to play is the whole question of coastal erosion. It particularly effects counties like my own, east Cork, and Waterford. This has been going on for two or three decades and successive Governments, in my view, have been inclined to ignore the problem. Research is required to establish methods to prevent or curtail the damage caused by coastal erosion. It is a problem which must be addressed.

The new institute and this Bill must be welcomed. I urge Senators on both sides of the House to realise the importance and necessity of the establishment of this institute. As I said earlier — previous speakers have referred to it — it is possibly overdue but now it is at hand I feel that this new institute will enhance the value of our entire fishing industry — and it is not entirely confined to the fishing industry. As Senator Murphy pointed out, there are several other aspects of it, but this new institute can go a long way towards redressing the imbalance that has existed because of the lack of technology and research.

I have confined my remarks to some areas in which I have particular knowledge, such as the mariculture and aquaculture industries. There is a great future for the entire fishing industry. I welcome the establishment of this institute. I feel that it can only do good for the entire coastal area, for the entire fishing industry and for the benefit of the economy in the long term.

Like Senator O'Donovan, I too, would like to welcome this Bill to establish a marine institute. The potential of the marine is enormous. Its full potential becomes apparent with each passing day. The amount of research and development expenditure on the marine in this country is very small indeed. One might go so far as to say it is almost harmless. One estimate I have is that it is of the order of perhaps £1 million to £2 million being spent on research and development in all of this area. The establishment of the institute will certainly provide a focus for that expenditure and for the badly needed to be made case for much greater investment in research and development on the marine. I also think that the establishment of the institute, and to co-ordination of effort which will, of necessity, follow from its establishment, will result in much better value for money being obtained from what will be invested.

The idea of a marine institute is not new in this country. I understand that the idea was first tossed around in the seventies. It was suggested in a report published by the OECD as long ago as 1975. There has been a variety of reasons why it has not become a reality in the meantime. It is fair to say there was a considerable degree of in-fighting about who would have control of it. When the institute is established it is very important that we learn the lessons which are to be drawn from the in-fighting and from the anxiety of various groups to become, as it were, dominant in this area and that concerted effort is made to prevent that recurring.

I suggest that one of the most important ways in which that can be done is by defining as a fundamental the functions of the institute. I believe when those functions are defined the establishment of the structures will follow from that definition rather than having things the other way around. My view is that the structures should be loose to some extent. I do not know that it is highly desirable that one big marine research centre as it were be established. Rather the institute might work more effectively if it acts to co-ordinate and focus the efforts of research and development which are at present being made rather than that it should be located as some type of prize in some centre or another.

Another vital aspect of the development and proper functioning of the Institute will be the board. There will be a great responsibility on the board and I certainly wish the Minister well when he appoints the members because in the appointment of the board he will lay the foundations either for success or failure. If he gets the proper levels of expertise, people of vision, then there will be a great opportunity to reach full potential. If, on the other hand, the Minister gets things wrong it will be a false start and in many ways it will be very very difficult to correct the loss of the important initial impetus.

At present there is not, as far as I am aware, any national programme in marine research. The potential is great. One indicator of the extent of the potential is the fact that perhaps in 1975 the potential of aquaculture was still in its infancy. Now it is a considerable industry, as the Senators from those parts of the country where it is important have made very clear during this debate. I am seeking to emphasise the fact that that development has taken place in a very short period of time. In the 1960s the idea of aquaculture would have been laughed at. It certainly would not have been a realistic possibility. Now in the 1990s it is a reality. The fact that we have seen those great changes in aquaculture can be used to illustrate the potential for further great changes down the line in the wonderful natural resource which this country is blessed with in the form of its marine resources. There is an enormous Continental Shelf around this country and that provides us with a tremendous potential for a whole variety of developments.

There is a question of the minerals which may be available in that marine shelf. There is the question of exploiting the fisheries, the exploitation of aquaculture, there is the question of the development of marine technology. A whole industry could be based around developing technology which can be used in exploiting the marine resources. It would be very worthwhile for the institute to look at the possibilities and seek to exploit whatever opportunities are available to us.

Another reason I am very happy to support this Bill is that it will provide us with a means by which we can fully exploit the enormous opportunities in the area of the marine in Europe. At present I understand there is quite good co-operation between Irish marine scientists and the Germans. Now we have a great opportunity with the establishment of this institute to shape the direction in which European research development in the area of the marine develops. If we do that, it should provide us with a very worthwhile resource: in other words, that we push the direction of European research and development into those areas which will most benefit us. If we stand back from it and if the Marine Institute does not develop properly, then our influence in Europe will remain marginal. That would represent a great loss of opportunity. The future here in this area is by means of co-operation with our European partners. We need to be involved in establishing and developing these research and development programmes. The potential there is really very significant.

On some points of this Bill there are aspects which I would like to see clarified. For example, I would like clarification on what the nature of the relationship will be between the universities and the institute. In particular I would like clarification on where the research centre for Carna will finish up. That centre has, in my view, done tremendous work over the years but in the recent past it has had a very troubled history and has had great difficulty obtaining funding for its research work. It is very important that such a centre be located wherever it can best serve the interests of the whole marine industry. I do not want to pretend I know the answer. It is very important that consideration be given to what the role for Carna will be, how the centre will be funded and what its relationship will be with the institute and with the universities. On a point of detail I understand that marine research is not defined in the Bill at all.

In relation to the institute, when it is established I would be in favour of something along the lines of a five to ten years research programme. It is very important that we make the investment in terms of developing excellence in those areas of research which are most relevant to the marine industry. Of course, when you come down to the essentials, it is very important that we have a clear view of where the marine industry is going because, research and development for the most part will have to serve the needs of the marine industry. It is very important that we put the horse in front of the cart rather than, as happened in some instances in this country in the past, have it the other way around. It is very important that the institute be involved with the industry and that clear objectives be defined in relation to where the industry is going. Then the research and development back-up should be provided, given that the objectives for the industry have been established.

I am glad to see that the range of activities covered by the Bill involve many areas of the marine and in particular the recreational aspects. I am glad to see it has within its ambit considerations that relate to social as well as economic factors, factors which relate to infrastructural support, that relate to the development of technology. I am pleased, as someone who was born quite close to the town of Kilrush in County Clare, that the Marine Institute has the capacity to contribute research and development support for projects such as the marina which is at present being established there. I am very pleased that its scope will cover the various social and economic considerations, factors that relate to the infrastructure which will be absolutely essential if projects such as the marina in Kilrush are to reach their full potential.

Cuireann sé an-áthas orm fáilte a chur roimh an mBille seo faoin a bhfuil sé i gceist institiúid mara a bhunú. Is dócha, nuair a smaoinítear gur mó na farraigí atá timpeall orainn ná an t-oileán seo, go bhfuil tábhacht faoi leith anois ag baint le forbairt ar ár nacmhainní mara. San mBille seo tá béim ar dhá rud, ar thaighde agus ar fhorbairt.

I welcome this Bill. It is a very important Bill particularly when we consider the scope of our marine resources. Most areas and aspects of marine life and development have been covered by the various speakers. I would like to concentrate in the first place on the question of research and of standards. There is a need in the greenfield context for pure research, for research that would be totally independent in its funding of any commercial organisations. In setting up this institute it is very important that resources are given to it so that it can set standards for the industry. With the development of mariculture — it is a welcome development and we all look forward to progress in this area in the years to come — many questions have arisen particularly in relation to standards. It is very important that there is an independent agency there whose function is to set the standard for this industry to do the research so that these standards can be set.

In regard to licensing, it will also be important that independent research and information are available so that the issuing of licences can be done in an organised and an informed way. As we are all aware the use of chemicals in the fishing industry has grown dramatically since aquaculture was developed. Therefore, it is very important that independent research be carried out, that it be totally independent either of the companies producing these chemicals or the end users, to monitor these chemicals and to assess the effects they have on various species of marine life and on the quality of water. Similarly, it is also important that the effects of various types of fishing on each other are monitored independently so that we have available independent evidence when making our decisions.

In addition, I see a second role for the institute, a role I have no problem with, namely, accepting and charging fees, that is on an agency basis doing work for the various interests involved in marine development. I see it providing information and data, whether it is for people involved in aquaculture or fishing, in dealing with the problems that arise from time to time. I can also see it playing a role in the development of various types of products and in monitoring the performance of these products.

The scope of this Bill is immense when we look at the total resource we have in the sea. As is mentioned in the Bill, there are matters such as fisheries, aquaculture, the non-living resources, marine engineering electronics, amenity recreation and so on. I do not intend going into detail into all these things but it is quite obvious that if developed properly this Marine Institute could have a great bearing on the future development of this country, particularly of the coastal areas, which are so urgently in need of development. Our knowledge of the sea we would have to admit is very small. For example, we do not know completely the effects of tides and ocean currents. This has become a matter of very urgent information with the development of the aquaculture industry. Therefore, the general sphere of oceanography will become a much greater part of the whole fishing and marine scene in the years to come than it has been heretofore.

Senator Upton mentioned the question of the universities. I see their role as one complementing that of the role envisaged for the Marine Institute, particularly as I understand that in principle it has been decided that the headquarters of this institute will be in Galway. That is fitting in view of the fact that Galway also has a very strong marine biology department in the University where a lot of very useful research has been carried on. I hope when this institute is developed that the marine research station in Carna will not only be retained but will be developed because on the west coast, particularly on the coast of Connemara, some of the most potentially rich resources are located.

I do not think that anybody living on the west coast could speak on this subject of fishing and fishermen without saying a few general words regarding the fishing scene in the west of Ireland particularly. We have had the introduction of quotas in the past few years and, therefore, as was pointed out by Senator Fitzgerald it is very important that the continuing exploration for new species and the development of those species is pursued. You then have the whole question of the development of shellfish farming and of fin fish farming and the debate that is very much a live issue as to the counter or interdependent effect on each other. There are people in the west who are very concerned about the effects of the explosion of fin fish farming in that area and they are conerned about its effect on natural marine life.

In accordance with the Order of Business today we were to adjourn this debate at 6.30 p.m. but I understand that the Acting Leader of the House has something to say.

Ba mhaith an rud é an tSeánad a chur ar athló go dtí a 7 a clog.

Acting Chairman

If Senator O Cuív wishes to conclude his contribution I will allow him to do it and we can then adjourn.

I was speaking about the effect of aquaculture and fin fish farming on marine life in general. It is very important that urgent research is carried out on the effects of one type of fish farming and one type of aquaculture on general marine life in the bays. This is a problem that will not go away. It is in the interests of the fin fish farmers that this research be carried out. It is in their interest that the possible pollution problems that are believed to be there be solved, that any damage that might be caused by chemicals be addressed and rectified.

I have a great belief in the ability of mankind when faced with problems to find solutions to them. Too often when we encounter problems we think that rather than finding a way around them we give up a particular type of development. I would not see it in that light at all but I think there are several issues that have to be addressed urgently. One of those is, obviously the effect of chemicals that are used in aquaculture. A second matter that is causing concern is the effect of the residue from these fish farms on the seabed and their effect on the indigenous species of fish in the sea. The third problem we face is the problem of disease on fish farms themselves. I have no doubt that if tackled in a positive way this can be overcome. We have seen it happen in other spheres but it is very important at this stage since there has been such an explosion in the volume of fin fish farmed on the coast, that we take stock of the position and that the problems be addressed before further major development takes place.

I would also be concerned that too much development not co-ordinated with this research and with market development and added-value product development could also harm in the long-term the fish farms that already exist by causing a glut of a standard product on the market which the market could not take. It is important on this issue that all the interests be consulted and, again, this is one of the very important rôles that this Marine Institute will play. In particular, it is very important that where this type of development is taking place the views of the community, their fears and their hopes will be taken into account and given the priority they deserve.

As I have said before in this House, on the west coast shellfish and shellfish farming have tended to be the poor relation when it came to aquacultural development. This indigenous resource is totally under-exploited, under-funded and under-developed. We have to ensure that the full value is achieved from this source. It has the advantage that it is totally reliant on the indigenous feed from the sea and, therefore, the added value for it is greater than in other forms of fish farming. It also has the advantage that it is a non-pollutant. However, this type of fish farming needs considerable development and I hope the necessary resources will be made available for this purpose. We must recognise in this rôle that we will not get a return overnight but I look with considerable interest at the development, for example, of the mussel fisheries in Killery harbour. I know in that small project itself there is a huge possibility of development and of creating downstream activities.

Most people in this country do not associate Ireland as a place where we do our own development of technical resources but rather import most of our technical equipment. One thing I welcome in this Bill and in the Minister's speech is the emphasis on marine engineering and the development of electronics to do with marine resources. I saw a very good example of what a small country can do in this regard in connection with the timber industry when I had the opportunity to visit Finland and look at the tremendous technical developments they had made in providing their own timber milling equipment which is now being exported worldwide. They did that from a very low base 30 years ago.

With our own high technical skills based on all types of marine activity and on our reputed skills in electronics, there is no reason we could not be a net exporter of this type of equipment if we put our mind to it but in this context we have to face up to our own lack of self-confidence in these fields. It seems to me a tragedy that the performance of our graduates who are doing this work worldwide is not concentrated in getting this development within this country. I would see the Marine Institute playing a leading role in encouraging people to get involved in this sphere of activity because more and more the employment potential of every type of industry is not in basic farming or in basic fishing but in the spin-off industries, in the provision of equipment, of added-value products, of processing, and the provision of services. I would see a huge role for the Institute in developing a much broader vision of the whole marine industry than is generally accepted at the moment. At present most people see fishing as the fishermen in the boats, as the aquaculture people involved and maybe processing.

When we talk about the sea there is one thing that perhaps merits more research than has been given to it over the years in the line of marine biology and that is the whole question of seaweed and the potential resource we have in the sea. I would hope that this Marine Institute will carry out significant further research into the possible economic exploitation of this resource that is so abundant around our coasts.

Mar a dúirt mé ag an tús, cuirim anfháilte roimh an mBille seo. Creidim, i gcionn 30 nó 40 bliain, go mbeidh an tionscal mara trí chéile chomh tábhachtach don tír seo agus atá tionscal na talmhaíochta i láthair na huaire. Ach ní tharlóidh sé sin de thimpist. Ní tharlóidh sé sin mura dtabharfaidh muid le chéile, mar atá i gceist sa mBille seo, chuile áisíneacht atá ag plé le forbairt na hiascaireachta agus na mara.

Creidim go mbeidh deis faoin reachtaíocht seo féachaint chuige go ndéanfar forbairt ar ár n-acmhainní mara agus go gcuirfidh sé saothrú ar fáil do na daoine ar fad atá ina gcónaí ar chósta na hÉireann.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 6.40 p.m. and resumed at 7.10 p.m.
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