It is proposed that we take Items No. 1 and 2 today and Second Stage of Item No. 1 to be concluded no later than 2 o'clock and the Horse Breeding Bill (Second Stage) will commence at 2 o'clock.
Order of Business.
The Horse Breeding Bill is a Bill to repeal the Horse Breeding Act, which deals with the licensing of stallions. I would like to ask the Leader to reconsider the ordering of this Bill today as the Equestrian Federation of Ireland have a motion before the next meeting of the Horse Advisory Committee, which is in March, to continue the licensing of all stallions. So what we are doing here today is the opposite of what the Equestrian Federation of Ireland, the parent body, will be moving at the very next meeting of the Horse Advisory Committee. I am not saying we will never do it or should never do it. I just think our timing is an insult to the very committee that the Minister appointed before Christmas. I urge that we leave this Bill until the Horse Advisory Committee have had time to study it. It has not been brought before them and I think this is a conscious decision not to let them see it.
I would like to raise very briefly on the Order of Business a matter which has been giving some concern to Independent Senators for some time. I do not think it is relevant to the An Bord Glas Bill which is coming before the House now but it is relevant to a lot of Bills and perhaps to other Bills which will be before the House this week and next week. It is this. We frequently do not get the relevant Minister; we get a Minister taking through a Bill on which he is not properly briefed and which he is not qualified to take through the House. I do not think this is a new problem for this House. It is something which we should have raised — it is our own fault — many years ago.
It has nothing to do with the Order of Business.
Appalling.
It is appalling, Senator Lydon.
It is not on the Order of Business.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Ross, without interruption, please.
I expect constructive criticism of this sort to be taken seriously by the Government benches in this House. It is something which is a poor reflection on this House. We had a classic case just before Christmas of a good Minister being put in this House at a totally inappropriate time.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You have made your point, Senator.
I should like to ask the Leader of the House to assure this House that in future this House will not sit unless the Minister or his deputy appropriate to the particular Bill comes before this House. It is wrong that we should be asked to take answers from people who are not qualified to give them.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You have made your point.
Ba mhaith liom a chur ar fógra an díomá atá orm faoin chaoi ar caitheadh liom aréir sa Seanad. Labhair mé ar feadh fiche nóiméad i nGaeilge faoi ábhar go bhfuair mé cead lena aghaidh. Tháinig Aire Stáit le mé a fhreagairt, agus ní raibh sé sásta ná in ann aon phíosa amháin Gaeilge a chur i mo threo san óráid sin. Anois tá Aire Comhshaoil ann agus, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, tá Gaeilge ag an Aire Comhshaoil, Pádraig Ó Floinn, agus feasta, bheinn ag súil go dtiocfadh an tAire Comhshaoil i láthair le ceist chomhshaoil a fhreagairt i nGaeilge, mar go raibh sé curtha agam i nGaeilge, agus ba mhaith liom cur ina aghaidh sin go mór.
I do not want to appear to be the least bit repetitious. I want to say simply that I agree fully with Senator Ross that ordering business means ordering business in a way which means that this House can discuss the legislation in a proper fashion and that means both that the Members are facilitated and also that the Minister who is competent and responsible or an appropriate competent responsible deputy is here. It is no service to this House or to the legislative process to have Ministers here who, through no fault of their own, are not well informed on the contents of a Bill.
May I say, as Béarla, how much I agree with Senator Ó Foighil. It is particularly scandalous and shameful that an issue that is raised by deliberate choice by a Member of this House in what is theoretically the first language cannot be given a response in that language. It is not a reflection on the particular Minister who is here. There are more than enough Ministers and junior Ministers in the present Government, or indeed in any alternative Government, with competence in the Irish language to be able to do that. What it effectively says is that there are two languages to be used in this House, one of which is important and the other of which is marginal, and that is a total and utterly abject display of hypocrisy.
That is not on the Order of Business.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Your point has been well made, Senator Ryan.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if, when last week he informed the House it was not the Government's intention to bring forward a health debate to the Seanad in the short term unless to debate those motions raised by individual private Members of the House, he was aware or is aware now that together with the national crisis in the health service we also have a very serious local problem in Beaumont Hospital at the moment and the local problem——
That is not on the Order of Business.
Senator Cassidy has consistently interrupted every speaker from this side so far today. That may be the sum total of his contributions to the House, but I think there should be fair play.
To conclude quickly, the point is that I am asking the Leader of the House if he was aware then and is aware now of the particular difficulties in Beaumont Hospital and a lot of the controversy centred on the dismissal of——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Two questions were asked which are relevant to the Order of Business. One was Senator Doyle's question in connection with the Horse Breeding Bill. What happens outside the Houses of the Oireachtas is of concern, of course, when Bills are coming forward. This Bill is being introduced here and, once the Bill has been introduced and the Minister makes his speech, people from outside the House will then have plenty of time to address themselves to what is in the Bill. I would suggest that the people concerned will have been reasonably well briefed already on what is in the Bill.
No, it has not been brought to them.
It will be up to the Members of this House to brief them if necessary. I do not take the comments that have been passed — no Minister has come into this House who has not been well briefed on the subject matter on which he was to address the House.
That is nonsense.
The Order of Business for today is Item No. 1 to conclude no later than 2 p.m. and Item No. 2.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Is the Order of Business agreed? Agreed.
Order of Business agreed to.
On a point of order, for the information of the House and in particular for Senator Ross's information, from past experience may I say that every Minister either of this Government or the previous Government who came into the House on any Bill, whether in substitution or not, was fully briefed on the particular Bill.
That is incorrect.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
This is not a point of order.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of information.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Will the Senator please resume his seat. I am calling Item No. 1.
I can speak from experience. That is not correct.
On a point of order, may I just say that the people on the back benches, the pseudo-intellectuals, think that everyone should know everything. They have done elementary courses——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not a point of order. I am calling Senator McGowan.
(Interruptions.)
May I say one sentence on the slanderous allegations that have been made by Senator McCarthy. We thought he was going to congratulate his fellow Tipperary man on his elevation to high office in the European Parliament, much to the embarrassment of his side of House.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not a point of order. Please resume your seat. I am calling Senator McGowan on Item No. 1.