Prior to taking the Order of Business, a Chathaoirligh, it is proposed that a vote of condolence be expressed to the family of Lord O'Neill. After the Order of Business it is suggested that leaders might make statements. So far as the Order of Business is concerned for today the first item is Item No. 1, the Worker Participation (State Enterprises) Order, 1990. On conclusion of that order it is proposed to move on to Item No. 101 — the motion on South Africa. In regard to that motion it is proposed by agreement, that notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders the following arrangements shall apply to this debate: the speech of each Senator shall not exceed 20 minutes and the debate shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 4 p.m. this evening. That concludes the Order of Business.
Order of Business.
May I thank the Leader of the House for agreeing to make a short time available this morning for one speaker from each group to express their condolence on the death of Lord O'Neill. May I also, on the Order of Business, support a plea made yesterday by Senator Tras Honan that this House be given an opportunity to have a full debate, preferably with the Taoiseach or a senior Minister present, on the six months of the Irish Presidency and more particularly on the major developments that are now taking place within the European Community. I would like to urge you very strongly to see if that could be arranged as soon as possible.
May I repeat a request that has been made frequently for a debate on Northern Ireland. There has been an enormous amount of comment in this House about the whats and the hows of Northern Ireland and quite justified revulsiom at the continuing murdering. We ought to spend some time looking at the whys. Anybody who had the good fortune to see two "Radharc" programmes last night and the night before on RTE 1 might have a further and deeper insight as to why the violence has continued. We could do with a serious, open-ended and long debate on Northern Ireland and where we are all going on that issue.
Secondly, I would like to ask for guidance either from you, Sir, or from the leader as to the criteria on which rooms are allocated for meetings because I know that meetings to do with the Winchester Three and the Birmingham Six have been held in this House. I, in conjunction with members of other groups, tried to have a meeting about a particular individual who feels aggrieved about his conviction for an offence committed in Britain and I was refused permission to have a room in the Houses of the Oireachtas. I do not understand who is deciding or on what criteria certain groups who feel rightly or wrongly aggrieved can be facilitated so that Members can hear their grievance within the House and other groups and individuals can be refused. I am not asking for special treatment. I am asking to be told what the rules are.
I would point out to the Senator that this matter is a CPP matter and it would be advisable to have it taken up with them.
All I can say is that I raised this matter via the CPP two years ago and I have so far not heard anything about the rules and how certain categories of people are distinguished between. I feel I am entitled to an answer.
I invite you to raise it again.
May I thank the Leader of the House for making time available to pay tribute to the late Terence O'Neill. I would also like to thank him for limiting the debate to 20 minutes per speaker. I have long been of the view that that is an adequate period of time for anybody to state their position.
I would support Senator Maurice Manning's and Senator Honan's request that we have a debate on the EC Presidency now that it is reaching an end. I would like to ask the Leader of the House what is the situation in relation to the visit of Mr. Nelson Mandela? What arrangements are to be made for Senators and will it be possible for Mr. Mandela to address this House?
Senator Manning referred to the question of a statement on the six months EC Presidency. That is something I will certainly be pursuing. I am not sure what the outcome will be but hopefully something can be done. Senator Brendan Ryan referred to a debate on the Northern Ireland situation. I have no plan for a debate at this time on that matter. The other item he referred to is, as the Cathaoirleach said, not appropriate to the Order of Business and perhaps not appropriate to this House. The Senator could raise the matter with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Senator Upton referred again to the statements on the Presidency and to the visit by Nelson Mandela. The situation has not changed. Senators will recall that when President Reagan, President Mitterand and other Heads of State came to Ireland, because they were Heads of State we had a joint session. Nelson Mandela is not in that category and for that reason there will not be a joint session. However, Senators can be seated in the division lobbies on the day. I am not sure how many seats are available but certainly I would think there would be 50 or so seats. That is what is on offer and I hope Senators will be content with that.