Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 Mar 1993

Vol. 135 No. 7

Order of Business.

Mr. Wright

Today's Order of Business will be Items 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. It is proposed that notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, Items 1, 2, 3 and 4 will be decided without debate. Item 5 will be taken until 4 p.m. The speech of spokespersons shall not exceed 30 minutes and the speech of other Members shall not exceed 20 minutes.

Statements on Aer Lingus will be taken from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. and the statement of each Member shall not exceed ten minutes. The Minister shall be called upon to make a statement of reply no later than 5.55 p.m. Business will be interrupted between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.

The Minister would like to make the opening statement on Aer Lingus and to comment on contributions for five minutes. Two hours have been allocated to statements on Aer Lingus following changes in appointments and other schedules to enable the Minister to attend. Should Members wish for a more extended debate in the coming weeks the Minister is willing to accommodate the House. The Minister wished to stay for the entire debate and that is the reason for today's Order of Business.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I cannot say that I welcome a two hour debate on Aer Lingus. The problem which has arisen in Aer Lingus is a serious one and will threaten over 1,000 jobs.

An Cathaoirleach

You are making a speech Senator.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I want to say to the Leader and to you, a Chathaoirligh, that this side of the House finds the idea of a two hour debate totally inadequate.

Mr. O'Toole

The Senator does not speak for this side of the House.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Two hours is not adequate for such a serious national matter. Unprecedented action has been taken by the Government.

An Cathaoirleach

You continue to make a speech. I have to remind you of that almost every time you stand up, which I regret.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I am making a point in relation to the Order of Business.

Mr. Roche

It should not take two hours to make a point.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Fine Gael believes that a full day's debate should be provided in this House to discuss the Aer Lingus problem and we are disappointed that the Government side has not seen fit today to provide that.

Mr. O'Toole

I compliment the Leader on managing to organise this topical debate on Aer Lingus today. It was difficult to arrange and required a change in the agreed business. Obviously two hours is not enough but it would be churlish not to acknowledge that much effort went into arranging today's welcome debate. Aer Lingus and others concerned about the company will be pleased that it has been included today. It is also worth noting that the current Aer Lingus problem will be debated in this House first.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It is not a debate. Statements will be taken.

An Cathaoirleach

You are making a speech too, Senator.

Mr. O'Toole

Nevertheless, I welcome this opportunity. I would like the Leader to indicate if further speakers on the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women will be given time at some other stage because their time has been reduced today.

The inclusion of statements on Aer Lingus raises the question of topicality of debates in this House. I welcome the flexibility shown in ordering a topical issue on the day.

Mr. Dardis

I thank the Leader for including this debate this afternoon. I would prefer more speaking time but restricting speeches to ten minutes will allow most people to participate within the time allotted. The Leader has honoured the commitment given yesterday. The report of the Seanad Commission on the Status of Women is an item on the Order Paper and should be discussed fully. As the Leader is prepared to provide time at a later stage to discuss Aer Lingus in more detail I welcome the provision of two hours for statements today.

Mr. Farrelly

I welcome the provision of two hours for statements on Aer Lingus. The House will sit for two extra hours so time for other items already arranged will not be reduced. I would have preferred a longer debate; the Leader of the House, no more than myself, gave certain promises, that led to his election to this House.

An Cathaoirleach

I would like you to put a question to the Leader of the House.

Mr. Farrelly

I wish to ask the Leader of the House — we asked last week, the week before, yesterday and there is still no word today — when he intends to allow time for a debate on the economy?

Mr. Enright

Could the Leader not have accepted our proposal yesterday——

An Cathaoirleach

Would you kindly put the question through the Chair?

Mr. Enright

——from Senator Taylor-Quinn for a sitting of the House tomorrow to discuss at length the position with regard to Aer Lingus. Yesterday, I believe it was accepted on all sides of the House, that there would be a minimum of a three hour discussion and debate on Aer Lingus. Finally, I ask the Leader if he would not consider it more beneficial to have this debate in the form of a motion rather than statements?

Ms. O'Sullivan

A Chathaoirligh, I welcome the fact that the important debate on Aer Lingus begins at 4 p.m. as Senator Farrelly said, and will not take time from discussion of the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women.

Mr. Wright

Thank you, a Chathaoirligh. I reiterate what I said on the Order of Business. The commitment from the Minister last night was that in a week or two, should the House so wish, we will have a more extensive debate on Aer Lingus, the duration of which the House, through the Whips will decide. This issue is going to unfold in many ways over the next couple of weeks and the House may be in a better position to hold a detailed debate when certain other issues have been clarified. I am giving a commitment that there will be another opportunity to debate this issue.

With regard to the report of the Second Commission on ths Status of Women, should we have more speakers than time we will come back to that issue, another time.

Regarding a debate on the economy, the Minister for Finance is willing to come to the House as soon as he can arrange a suitable time. The budget is still being dealt with in the Dáil at the moment.

An Cathaoirleach

The question is, "That the Order of Business be items 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that items 1, 2, 3 and 4 will be decided without debate; that item 5 will be taken until 4 p.m. and the speech of each Member called on to contribute shall not exceed 30 minutes for spokespersons and 20 minutes for all other speakers; that statements on Aer Lingus will be taken from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. and the statement of each Member called on to contribute shall not exceed ten minutes and the Minister shall be called on to make a statement in reply no later than 5.55 p.m.; business will be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.".

Question put.

The Seanad divided: Tá, 31; Níl, 10.

Tá

• Bohan, Eddie.
• Byrne, Seán.
• Cashin, Bill.
• Cassidy, Donie.
• Crowley, Brian.
• Daly, Brendan.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Farrell, Willie.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzgerald, Tom.
• Gallagher, Ann.
• Hillery, Brian.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Mary.
• Kiely, Dan.
• Lydon, Don.
• McGennis, Marian.
• McGowan, Paddy.
• Magner, Pat.
• Maloney, Seán.
• Mooney, Paschal.
• Mullooly, Brian.
• O'Brien, Francis.
• O'Kennedy, Michael.
• O'Sullivan, Jan.
• O'Toole, Joe.
• Ormonde, Ann.
• Quinn, Feargal.
• Roche, Dick.
• Townsend, Jim.
• Wright, G.V.

Níl

• Cosgrave, Liam.
• Cregan, Denis (Dino).
• Enright, Thomas W.
• Farrelly, John V.
• Howard, Michael.
• Neville, Daniel.
• Reynolds, Gerry.
• Ross, Shane P.N.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.

Tellers: Tá, Senators Mullooly and Magner; Níl, Senators Cosgrave and Neville.

Question declared carried.

Order of Business agreed to.