Today's Order of Business will be Item 1, Merchant Shipping (Salvage and Wreck) Bill, 1993, taking all Stages today. We will take Item 1 until 6 p.m. and after 8 p.m. we will conclude the Bill. We will take Item 34 from 6 p.m. until 8 p.m. The Adjournment Matters will be taken at the conclusion of business.
Order of Business.
We agree to facilitate the Government on Item 1. I suggest that there be a short break between Second and Committee Stages because there may be a number of amendments tabled. There will be no need for a guillotine on this measure, I think it will go through in the time available.
When is it proposed to take Item 8 again — statements on Northern Ireland? He will be aware a number of people on both sides would like to contribute. As I said last week, it is not necessary for the Tánaiste to be present for the debate to go ahead, although it would be desirable.
Since there are three full weeks until the end of the session, perhaps the Leader could give us his programme for legislation today.
At present major discussions are taking place about the good value or otherwise given by the public service to the State. It would be appropriate to discuss this matter in the House before Christmas. I ask for a debate on that wide issue.
On a related matter, I have distributed a survey on the state of school buildings in Ireland. People at primary, post-primary and third levels have complained about this. The fabric of the places of learning is disgraceful. We need to examine this matter seriously and to ask how we can invest in the future if we are educating people in decrepit and shabby buildings.
In respect of Item 1, I note the Leader has not mentioned a time to conclude the debate on the Bill this evening. I accept it is likely to be disposed of easily but I assume we will not be in the Seanad Chamber overnight, which could be taken from the way he ordered business.
Last week we agreed to the Order of Business on the basis that the Northern Ireland debate would be resumed at an early date. Given the balanced and constructive manner in which that debate was conducted, it would be desirable if we could return to it at an early date. Given the way that debate was conducted last week and its balanced and constructive manner, it would be desirable for us to return to it at an early stage; if not tomorrow, then next week. We have something to contribute that may be of help and I am sure the Leader will accept that.
I understood from a radio programme today — I may be wrong — that the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Deputy M. Higgins, has plans to raise Armada wrecks. Is this where he proposes to find the money that is missing from the Structural Funds?
This is not on the Order of Business. If you wish to refer to wrecks, Senator, you may mention them in the debate on the Merchant Shipping (Salvage and Wreck) Bill.
That is a cheap and common shot.
(Interruptions.)
Perhaps it is the national debt the Minister is going to reduce. On a personal note, may I wish you well, Sir, in your deliberations on whether you will refer a particular Bill to the Council of State. I am sure your wise head will be of value in that forum.
There will be a number of wise heads there.
In view of the concern about the levels of crime and vandalism, would the Leader take Item 33 at an early date?
Would the Leader of the House raise with the Minister for Justice the activities of certain illegal furniture dealers who have been organising sales in various areas? Apparently, they are English based, but they have defrauded many in my constituency out of thousands of pounds. This matter must be dealt with as soon as possible.
May I ask the House to express its support and solidarity with the Taoiseach in his negotiations with the British Prime Minister? We are all looking forward to successful negotiations and it is important to give him our support.
May I remind the Leader that it was in this House that we had the first debate on AIDS. Since today is World AIDS Day, it should be marked in some way. I have not put anything on the Order Paper because the two debates on AIDS we had so far have come as a result of motions I put down and it is inappropriate that only I should be raising this issue. I would welcome interest from the Government side being expressed in this area particularly at this time, so that we could pay tribute to the wonderful work done by voluntary organisations such as Aidswise and Comfort AIDS. On this day, it is important that we at least mention it because we are still at a point where the spread of the infection in this country can be contained if we are wise enough and if we put the resources and energy into it. I ask the Leader if he will consider providing time, as soon as possible, for a non-controversial discussion on this matter, with the intention of being helpful to the Government.
May I join with Senator Manning in his further calls for a continuing debate on the North of Ireland. I know we have had discussions in this area, but matters are moving so rapidly that it would be appropriate that we continue to examine and highlight these issues. We should welcome the historic advances being made partly, I believe, as a result of the galvanising of both parties by a series of leaks. It was only a short while ago when we were told there would be a period of five to ten years before Sinn Féin or the IRA could be included in negotiations; this has been reduced to two and a half months. This is their opportunity. We should be in a position to appeal to the IRA, now that they have a real chance. They have what they were looking for; let them take it. There should not be one further bullet or bomb. I am delighted that the British Government, and possibly the Irish Government, had contacts with these groups. I hope they have further contacts with those on the other side.
In relation to a comment made by Senator Dardis, the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht has evolved a project involving the Greek and Spanish Governments which will not cost the State a penny and will be probably one of the most exciting tourist developments in the history of our country. I suggest that Senator Dardis wait before he jumps in.
The second and more serious matter relates to a point I raised in this House when Senator Neville put forward the Suicide Bill. I said I deplored the fact that we could not accept it because of precedent in the House, and the reluctance of all Governments to accept necessary, important and welcome legislation from the Opposition benches. I was glad to note in the Dáil last night that a Second Reading of Deputy Shatter's Bill was accepted by the Government and will be debated in Committee. I sincerely hope that we will be more adult in the new series of Dáil reforms and that we will accept legislation not only from the Opposition——
Well said.
——but that we will take more note of backbenchers on the Government side also.
I do not make any apology for underlining the request to discuss Northern Ireland again as soon as possible. I found last week's two hours moving almost to the point of tears if only because not a word was said with which even the most hardline unionist could find fault. I found sympathy and an understanding for the unionist and Protestant tradition in Northern Ireland in every word that was said in this House. Another hour or two's debate as soon as possible on a situation that is changing day to day could only be for good.
In reply to Senator Magner——
You do not reply to Senator Magner.
Through the Leader.
Especially to Senator Magner.
Have you a question to the Leader?
On a point of order, Senator Magner should not have replied to Senator Dardis. We wondered if there was a new leader over there.
Has Senator O'Toole joined Fine Gael? They are capable of looking after themselves. The Senator should mind the INTO.
I have to admit that he did not hide his intention. Otherwise I would have ruled. Senator Burke, a question to the Leader.
We will be dealing with burials at sea later today and I hope we will not bury the Minister from Galway.
The Government is still afloat.
Will the Leader ask the Taoiseach to make the decision on the forthcoming by-elections? He has hinted at them and said everything but he has not set the date.
The Senator anxiously awaits that by-election.
Yes, and we also expect to win. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications about rural telephone boxes? Most of the boxes in rural Ireland now are card telephones.
Cards.
It is not appropriate to the Order of Business. It is more appropriate as an item on the Adjournment or some other form.
What is Government policy in this area?
Ask him for a debate; he does not dictate policy.
There should be a coinbox with every card telephone box.
I advise the Senator to put down a motion.
In relation to Item 8, which was mentioned by Senators Manning, Dardis, Wilson, Norris and others, there are ongoing negotiations between the Whips and the Department of Foreign Affairs. It is our intention between now and Christmas to deal with Item 8 again; I assure the House that we will have another chance to debate it. I do not want to say how soon until I get a chance to discuss the issue with the various Ministers involved. I take the point made by Senator Manning and others that if the Tánaiste is not available the House would still like to have the debate.
In relation to legislation, the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill, 1993, the European Parliament Elections Bill, 1993, the Local Government (Dublin) Bill, 1993, the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill, 1993, the Road Traffic Bill, 1993, Second Stage; the Greyhound Industry (Amendment) Bill, 1993, legislation related to Aer Lingus, the Interpretation (Amendment) Bill, 1993, the Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill, 1993 and one or two others will be dealt with.
We will be killed in the Christmas rush.
As I mentioned last week, the Whip has arranged that we will sit three days a week — next week, the week after and we will be sitting on Tuesday and Wednesday of Christmas week.
I take the point Senator O'Toole made on both issues, statements or a debate on the public service and the schools capital programme, but I ask him in the interest of the legislation programme to wait until the new year. We will bear his comments in mind.
What about the Appropriations Bill? That has not been mentioned.
That is for Christmas day.
That will give the Senator the opportunity to debate the items he mentioned. Senator Norris mentioned the possibility of a debate on AIDS given the day that is in it. Hopefully we will find some way and we will talk to the Minister for Health.
That is the Christmas stuffing.
Before I ask if the Order of Business is agreed, I take this opportunity to welcome back Senator Tom Fitzgerald who had a spell in hospital.
Order of Business agreed to.