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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Nov 1994

Vol. 141 No. 7

Order of Business.

Today's Order of Business will be Item 1. It is the intention of the House to make as much progress as possible on this legislation today. There will be a sos between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. and business will conclude at 4 p.m.

Will Committee Stage only be taken?

It depends on the progress made.

We will be happy to facilitate the Leader of the House in making as much progress as possible on the Adoptive Leave Bill, 1993. However, as the Government has approximately 100 amendments on Committee Stage, progress may be slow.

Will the Leader of the House consider giving time, when the House meets again, to allow the Seanad to welcome the initiative taken by the US Government in providing the recently announced package of economic aid to Northern Ireland and the Border counties? I am not seeking a debate on Northern Ireland, which is important in itself and is a separate issue, but the House should recognise and welcome the role played by the US Government in providing this package, together with the general role which it and President Clinton have played, and are playing, in the peace process. Will the Leader of the House provide time for the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs to make a statement, specifically on the role of the US Government in this area?

The Cathaoirleach and I have a very clear view of each other this morning due to all the empty benches in front of me. This great black hole, where the main Opposition party used to sit——

The Labour Party?

——is obviously a direct route to the Cork by-election.

(Interruptions).

It is not an amendment to the Order of Business. I am glad that people are busy. Apparently there were no empty seats on the Cork train this morning. The people of Cork should be protected from all of this door knocking.

The Senator is above that.

Yesterday I raised on the Order of Business the question of an ethics committee. There may be some misunderstanding about what I said. I want us to address this issue as a House of the Oireachtas. It is a matter which we could deal with as an item on the Order Paper. The idea of people criticising the actions of people inside and outside the Government is misunderstood. Many people in both Houses do not quite understand what is expected of them in public life. The only simple way to deal with that is to set clear standards which everybody understands, so that if there is a breach it is clearly understood.

I raise that issue again this morning in the hope that it will be addressed. Perhaps, the first place to address it would be in the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. It is a serious issue. It does not do the business of public representation any good for these issues to be dealt with solely in the media without us addressing them in a responsible way and without making any political capital. I am not putting this forward in a critical way. I believe, as an Independent looking at both sides fighting with each other on these issues, that there should be standards which everybody, from the public to elected public representatives, understands. A committee to determine standards and ethics in public life and public office needs to be established.

I support what Senator O'Toole has said. Recently we invited the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste to this House to listen to statements on the North of Ireland. Every Member without exception asked them to promote peace and do everything possible in that respect. In that context the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach went to the US, Canada, Australia and Brussels. They were remarkably successful in obtaining goodwill and cash to fund the peace process. They were successful beyond our wildest dreams.

When they returned that aspect seemed to be missed. All that was taken up was the cost of the Government jet. It reminds me of small boys throwing mud at a wall. At first a small amount sticks, but if they continue to do it for a long time a lot sticks. That is what is happening in this case. Since we sent the Taoiseach and Tánaiste there to do what we asked them to do — and they did a very good job — I think that rather than pick loopholes in what they did, we should be praising them. I support what Senator O'Toole has requested.

Following on from what Senator Neville said, I ask the Leader of the House to try to pass on to this and other Departments that the way in which amendments arrived here in the last couple of days is totally unsatisfactory. I know that it is not his fault and that he shares my concern. It is not fair to either our spokespeople or the staff here. Amendments are probably dropped into Leinster House by the staff of Departments on their way to the DART station. They then have to be processed by the staff of this House. We will not oppose the Order of Business today. However, if in future a whole string of amendments——

We will support the Senator.

We will support the Senator also.

(Interruptions).

Less of the comedy, please.

You would not know what Senators we have outside the door.

Neither does the Senator.

I ask the Leader to pass on to the Department the fact that 70 or 80 amendments should not arrive here just a couple of hours before the debate.

I was surprised to hear Senator Neville assume that we would not be meeting next week.

The Senator was so informed.

If there is already agreement on this, as there appears to be — Senator O'Toole referred to the empty seats on this side of the House — we are setting a very bad example to the nation. We have been in recess for three months and are back only a couple of weeks. It now appears that the Leader is likely to suggest that we do not meet next week.

Last week the Leader gave us a list of the legislative plans for this session, which are long, detailed and in great need of debate. To immediately then set out a standard that we are not going to meet for another two weeks seems to be a decision which we should reconsider. I urge the Leader to give serious consideration to this. I will be accused of being naive, as I was the last time, but I believe that this is something to which we should give serious attention — our image before the nation.

I support Senator Neville's request for this House to get an opportunity to discuss the American contribution to the peace process. However, we should try to keep it in proportion. A cartoon in this morning's Irish Times very vividly portrays that the American contribution is £12 million spread over two years. The British Government has poured £3.5 billion per annum into Northern Ireland. In financial terms, the American contribution is not all that marvellous.

I note the comments of Senators Neville and Cosgrave in relation to the legislation today. Obviously, I appreciate the fact that he has not opposed the Order of Business.

Is "magnanimous" the word which should be used?

That would be very appropriate.

After 12 months we are glad to see it.

The next piece of legislation to be dealt with by the House is the Maintenance Bill, 1994.

With regard to Senator Neville's and Senator Wilson's call for a debate on the US package, I would welcome such a debate insofar as it is not the monetary aspect which is most important but the absolute commitment of the President of the United States to the whole peace process. I am sure that every Member of this House would like an opportunity to expand on that.

With regard to an ethics committee, I am sure that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges may well get a chance to discuss the possibility of forming such a committee. We also have an information officer to whom we may want to speak again in relation to some of the Senator's comments. The Whips will be meeting to decide when the next sitting of the House will be.

Order of Business agreed to.
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