Today's Order of Business is items 1 and 2. It is proposed to take item 1 until 6.p.m. with 20 minutes for spokespersons and 15 minutes for each speaker thereafter. I seek the co-operation of the House in trying to bring the Second Stage of item 1 to a conclusion by 6 p.m. The Committee and remaining Stages will be taken on Wednesday, 19 July. We will take all Stages of item 2 today.
Order of Business.
An extensive Whips notice was issued this week. We recognise the reasons for this are due to the unprecedented situation the House has faced recently. We will do our best to co-operate in every way. I welcome that the Leader has decided to allow a second day for the Social Welfare (No. 2) Bill, 1995. We are taking all Stages of the Casual Trading Bill, 1994. Does the Leader have any time in mind as to when we will conclude tonight?
No. We will sit for as long as we need.
Within reason.
We will agree with that. This House has raised the question of the Irish Press Group on many occasions and the Leader has had the opportunity of speaking to the workforce at various public places. The Leader will be aware from correspondence and representations made by the workforce that it is ironic that, in their effort to save jobs in the Irish Press Group, they now find themselves outside the social welfare system. This situation is unprecedented; this is an anomaly. Could the Leader use his good offices with the Minister in question to see what measures the Minister can take to alleviate the situation faced by the workforce?
The amount of business we have to cover this week and next is understandable in these unprecedented circumstances. Nonetheless, it is important to ensure that all legislation is given due consideration. The Casual Trading Bill may take longer than the Leader is expecting and it is important it is given as much time as it needs. Earlier the Leader gave a commitment to have a debate on foreign affairs before the end of this session. I recognise that circumstances alter cases and the difficulty in which we find ourselves but the Leader has given commitments to have debates on foreign affairs and a number of other outstanding issues and motions on the Order Paper. There is a need for debates on education, on disability and related matters. Could one day be devoted to these issues when the House resumes after the summer recess? It would be possible to clear a great deal of business at the beginning of the next session by providing a day to deal with it.
It is reasonable, in view of the congestion in the Order of Business — and I can understand the reasons for it — that we are flexible on the matter. Having said that, a few urgent matters warrant attention, possibly by way of statements. One of them is the remarkable events that took place in the Pacific Ocean with the Rainbow Warrior II and Greenpeace, who endeavoured by peaceful means to stop something we condemned in this House some time ago. Seeing the television pictures showing that boat being rammed and tear gas being thrown on its bridge demonstrates an attitude on the part of the French that I, and I imagine everybody in the House, finds totally unacceptable. I hope the Leader will ask the Government to bring our strongest possible protest to bear on this matter. We might possibly consider dealing with it by way of statements.
While accepting there is a requirement to take all Stages of the Casual Trading Bill expeditiously, I ask the Leader of the House if, in that event, we can enter amendments up to the end of Second Stage? It is possible that on the basis of what we hear on that Stage there might be a need for some amendments.
My other question is to do with item 10, the Consumer Credit Bill. The Leader is aware that we voiced dissatisfaction about the way this Bill was brought through the Houses of the Oireachtas. There were 200 amendments, mostly from the Government side, when we debated the Bill. Now we have a further instalment before us, which takes up a page on the Order of Business. The middle of that message says that "Dáil Éireann has not agreed to amendment 77 and desires that Seanad Éireann should not insist thereon.". Can the Leader clarify to what the Government takes such exception in the way Seanad Éireann dealt with the Consumer Credit Bill?
We should welcome the freeing of Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma by the Burmese Government and hope it heralds the dawn of democratic politics in that country.
I support the call from Senator Wright as regards the entitlement of the Irish Press workers to social welfare payments. It seems extraordinary that people who have been out of work for the last number of weeks have received social welfare payments while the Irish Press workers have been excluded from such entitlements.
The Senator should propose legislation.
The Leader promised on a number of occasions during this session that there would be a debate on health. This has not materialised and there is no indication in this week's Order of Business of such a debate. While I appreciate time will be provided for statements on disability, that is not in keeping with the commitment I understood was given to the House regarding a debate on health. There are many outstanding issues under that heading that need to be debated. Maybe the Leader will address this matter when he replies?
We asked for a debate on agriculture, especially as it applied to the withdrawal or curtailment of grant aid under the farmyard pollution scheme. That is now a major matter of public concern around the country. We have all been invited to public meetings on the matter — I have attended such meetings — and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry has not yet responded. Some weeks ago I asked the Leader to respond to this. I now ask him if the Minister will come to this House or if the Leader will make any statement on this serious matter?
In view of the short time left in this session, it may not be possible to ask for the Taoiseach to come to the House. Could the Leader persuade him to meet the British Prime Minister, John Major, as a matter of urgency? I travelled through the North to come here and over the past few months the atmosphere has been relaxed. However that situation does not prevail today because there is tension in the North. We must return to normality and the Taoiseach must continue to meet Mr. John Major until we recover the ground lost.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I ask the Senator to please put a question to the Leader.
I am trying to put a question to the Leader.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
The Leader knows what is on the Senator's mind.
I want to explain my reasons for asking this question. The people in the North are concerned about the present situation. This is the only platform I have to raise this issue. I believe the Leader will support my request to emphasise the urgency of the situation to the Taoiseach. I represent a Border area.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing that matter today. The Senator has made his point.
I appreciate that you must keep order in the House but I ask the Leader to emphasise our concern about this matter.
I also want to raise the issue of French nuclear testing. Is the Leader aware that last night Dublin City Council adopted a resolution that none of its members would go to the Bastille Day reception in the French Embassy? Would he agree that no Member of this House should attend that reception or any other French reception in the short term until the French Government's decision is reversed? There is a responsibility on the Tánaiste to persuade his French counterpart at European Council level to reverse this decision. If there is time for a debate on foreign affairs next Wednesday, would it be appropriate for the Tánaiste to come into this House to tell us about the efforts he is making to get the French Government to reverse its decision? This is a matter of major concern to an overwhelming number of Irish people.
Some time ago Senator Daly mentioned the shortage of places for higher diploma students. In the past couple of weeks I have been approached by students who have completed their degrees and are anxious to enrol in the course, but who have experienced great difficulties. The Leader indicated he would talk to the Minister for Education. I would like to know the up-to-date position on this matter.
I support what has been said about the attack on the Rainbow Warrior II and, in particular, what Senator Mulcahy said. I had intended to request the Leader to ask Members not to attend the Bastille Day celebrations. Perhaps he might clarify this in his reply. I was asked by the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs not to go to these celebrations and I said I would be happy not to do so. Nobody should be surprised by this development. Some people may have been surprised by my intemperate remarks about Mr. Juppé and his views on human rights issues in East Timor. The French have a long tradition in this area.
Could the Leader ascertain, for the information of the House, the precise legal situation because it is not clear to me whether the Rainbow Warrior II was in French territorial waters? It is a matter of further concern that the French should continue this buccaneering practice on the anniversary of the day when they succeeded in murdering a distinguished French psychologist, Pascale Joseph Doucé, on the instructions of the French secret service.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing that matter now. It is not relevant to the Order of Business.
It was relevant to the man who was murdered. It is extraordinary that the French have not been able to provide any information on the subject.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
I recognise there are pressures at present, but perhaps it would be possible to allocate an hour for statements on item 24, motion 16: "That Seanad Éireann takes note of the final statement issued from the Conference of European parliamentarians concerning HIV-AIDS, held under the auspices of the European Public Health foundation in Barcelona on 19-20 May 1995". Senator Henry and I attended that conference in Barcelona and we were asked to bring back this report to see if it could be noted by Seanad Éireann. I ask this particularly because I will be going to London at the weekend for a meeting of a subcommittee, of which I am a member, chaired by Lord Kilmarnock and I would like to tell them that we are taking this matter seriously.
In directing a question to the Leader, I endorse the comments of my colleague, Senator McGowan. As a Member from a Border county I wish to convey to this House and to the Leader the growing concern among those living in the Border counties at the threat to the peace process.
The window of opportunity, which was opened by the ceasefire, should not be threatened either by a lack of will on the part of the British Government or incidents like those we witnessed near Portadown. I commend the Nationalist people of the Garvaghy Road for their Christian and tolerant response in the face of extreme provocation and the RUC, who have handled the matter in a manner which may have pleasantly surprised people on the southern side.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing that matter now. A question please Senator.
Will the Leader please convey to the Taoiseach and the Government the urgency of putting the peace process back on the rails? I cannot overestimate the serious threat that has been perceived to be looming in the Border counties as expressed by my friend and colleague, Senator McGowan. I know it will be shared by all my colleagues in the Border counties. I am sorry, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. I know you are anxious to move on but this matter is of such importance——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing that matter now and the Senator has put his question to the Leader.
I am not attempting to discuss it but I want to convey, with all of the strength at my command, how vital it is that there is some political fallout from the peace process, some movement on the prisoners' issue and something given to the Nationalist people of Northern Ireland, who have put their faith in this ceasefire, which is under threat. Will the Leader please convey these comments to the Taoiseach?
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I have no doubt the Leader has taken the Senator's point.
I am grateful.
My point is much the same. I support Senator McGowan and I want to express my personal concern. I ask the Leader to convey our concern to the Taoiseach and ask him to convey to Mr. Major the urgency of the peace process and the difficulty that has arisen over the last ten days. It is important that this be dealt with immediately. The Leader should convey to the Taoiseach this sense of urgency and our concern because it may be too late in another week or fortnight. If we undo all the good work of the last Government and the present Government to date out of neglect, for the sake of a better word, it would be a sad day for this country.
I also ask the Leader to convey to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry our concern about the withdrawal of grants for farm pollution which is causing a serious problem in Monaghan and Cavan. This matter has been raised by Senator Finneran already and I support him.
I am delighted that Minister Higgins has decided that the headquarters of the National Heritage Council will be in Kilkenny.
In view of the statements that there will be cuts of £77 million in current budget expenditure between now and the end of the year, which of the programmes announced earlier in the year will be affected? This is important. Ministers are going around the country announcing schemes here, there and everywhere. Where will the cuts take place? All we have heard is that Ministers have agreed to these cuts but no one knows where they will be made and it is essential that we know.
I agree with other speakers that it is important to continue to make our protests to the French. Kilkenny Corporation and Kilkenny County Council both unanimously passed motions of condemnation last night. However, I do not agree with the request that the Leader should ask Members of this House not to attend a Bastille Day celebration. If Members are not able to make up their own minds as to where they should go, that is a disgrace. It should be left to every Member to decide for himself.
Head in a basket.
That is not an appropriate remark when we are talking about the people who died on Bastille Day. I resent that type of remark.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader, Senator.
I had a third question but since that interruption I cannot remember what it was.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I am sure you can ask it tomorrow.
As a representative of a Border county I also wish to express concern about what has happened in Northern Ireland in the past few days. I have full confidence and faith in the Government and the Taoiseach; they are aware of the current position and will act in all haste——
What are they doing?
——to do whatever they can to bring about a resolution to the problem.
It is not the Government's problem.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Reynolds without interruption.
I suggest that the Leader consider having a Cabinet meeting within the next few days since all my colleagues wish to meet Ministers.
I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his co-operation on today's business. He and other colleagues mentioned the Irish Press workers; this crisis is a cause of shame. Every effort has been made by the Minister to resolve the matter within existing legislation. I will convey to him the concern Senator Wright expressed, which is felt by so many Members.
The issue of French nuclear testing and Greenpeace was mentioned by a number of Members. Senator Lanigan is right; it is not my job to tell people whether to go to a ceremony. I will not be going but that is partly because I have not been invited. I am prepared, subject to agreement with the Whips, to make half an hour of Seanad time available — perhaps during lunch break — on Bastille Day, le quatorze juillet, if Members wish to make statements on the issues concerned. One Member from each group could be permitted to speak; we can discuss the details later. We had a short debate on this subject when it was announced that nuclear testing would recommence and I conveyed those statements to the French Ambassador. As the only House sitting on Friday, it would be appropriate to have short statements on the matter.
Senator Dardis asked about amendments to the Casual Trading Bill; they will be accepted up to the end of Second Stage. He also asked if I understood item 10 on today's Order Paper; I do not but I will have myself briefed and will then brief other Members in understandable language as to what has to be done.
Senator Finneran rightly raised the debate on health and I regret that it has not been possible to hold that debate. Circumstances of the last two weeks have resulted in a great curtailment of available time. I guarantee to do my best to see if that debate can be held. Senator O'Toole made a helpful suggestion on which I would like to act, which was that we could set aside one or two days at the beginning of next session to deal with any outstanding matters from this session. We are coming to the end of an arduous session and I cannot promise to make further time available; I am not sure that all Members want that time made available.
A number of Members raised the question of Northern Ireland and I can assure Senators that they do not have a monopoly of concern about what is happening there. All of us are concerned and determined to ensure, as far as we can, that the peace process is maintained. The Government is in constant contact with the British Government and with the authorities in Northern Ireland. My own view is that at this stage, when we are calling for restraint on both sides in Northern Ireland, we would not help the process by saying anything which would cause offence or otherwise damage the present situation. While noting the concern we all feel, I call on colleagues to exercise restraint in this matter. Words can be very dangerous in the present tinder-box situation in Northern Ireland, especially over the coming days. I have noted, however, the concern of Senators.
I hope the Government is telling that to John Major.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Manning without interruption.
These sort of facile inferences do not help anybody. As regards the point raised by Senator Lanigan, I do not know the details of the cuts but as soon as I do I will inform him. I hope they will not fall on Kilkenny.
The barracks are safe.
Senator Ormonde raised the question of the higher diploma. There is a real problem but because of the events of the last two weeks I have not seen the Minister. I will be seeing her. Senator Daly also raised that case and I will try to get clarification before the end of the session. My apologies for not doing so.
I asked about taking note of the report of the conference on Aids in Barcelona.
I will try to make a short time available, possibly on Friday. It may be less than half an hour but I will try to find an opening.
We need that for technical reasons.
We should sit until August to finish the business.
Order of Business agreed to.