The Order of Business today is item 1 until 6 p.m. By agreement, the first speaker from each group will have 30 minutes and subsequent speakers will have 20 minutes. Item 15, motion 17, will be taken from 6 p.m. until 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. In the last couple of weeks I have asked the Leader for this House to be given the opportunity to discuss and debate the nuclear policy of the UK. In view of the decision yesterday by the EU Commission, it is very important for this House to be given an opportunity to send its message to the nuclear industry. I hope that the Leader will find time in this session for that debate.
The Leader's party had the opportunity at the weekend to discuss the drugs issue. My colleagues have several ideas and experience in that area and it would be worth while if the Leader afforded time for another debate on the drugs issue which is to the forefront in every village and town in our society.
I have no objection to the Order of Business. I support what Senator Wright said in respect of the nuclear problem. I noted yesterday that the Minister of State, Deputy Stagg, was against what was happening in England, but what is he going to do about it? We are all against it, but what is going to be done?
Will the Leader make time available for a full debate on education? I understand that there is legislation in preparation which will have a very serious effect on our universities. It would be a very bad move to interfere in the academic freedom and management of universities, particularly Trinity College, Dublin, which has a centuries old tradition. It is a wise principle that academics should not be interfered with in any way by the political process. That principle has stood for centuries and should not be interfered with, which is why I would like these matters to be debated in full here before the legislation comes to this House.
I am sure that all the Members wish to congratulate Senator Fitzgerald on his new appointment.
Go raibh maith agat. Gach bliain bíonn lá na Gaeilge anseo sa Seanad. An bhfuil sé ar intinn ag an Aire lá na Gaeilge a bheith againn i mbliana? Almost every year while I have been a Member of the Seanad the Houses of the Oireachtas have had a Lá na Gaeilge where everybody does their utmost to speak a few words of the Irish language. I would like this custom to be continued in both Houses. Will the Leader ask the Minister if he intends to have a Lá na Gaeilge this year?
I also support the call for a debate on nuclear energy. I am not sure what good a debate would do because it seems that Governments have exhausted almost every avenue in their bid to close down Sellafield. However, a debate in the House would make people more aware and the public would then rise up with the politicians and object strenuously to nuclear energy.
I support Senator Dardis's request for a debate on education. I have no illusions about the superior virtue of academics, but one hears disturbing rumours about the intentions of the Minister for Education as regards the governance of higher education. If there is any foundation to those rumours, they would portend an unfortunate change in the relationship of the State to education. I hope this issue is clarified as soon as possible.
Ba mhaith liom cabhrú leis an Seanadóir Fitzgerald agus guím go mbeidh Lá na Gaeilge againn sar i bhfad.
I support what has been said about nuclear energy. I agree with Senator Dardis that the Government should do whatever it can about Sellafield. It is disappointing that the EU has not been more effective in this area. We hoped it could have used the considerable powers it has to do something in this regard. As it has a lot of power over our lives, from the baking of brown bread upwards, I thought it would be able to take strong action, particularly when one EU state is affecting another. I hope our MEPs will pursue this matter further.
I also support Senator Wright, who called for a debate on drugs. The principal Minister in this regard is the Minister for Justice, but it also affects other areas such as education and health. I hope we have a wide-ranging debate which will not just concentrate on justice.
Cuidím leis an méid atá ráite ag mo chara, an Seanadóir Fitzgerald, i dtaobh Lá na Gaeilge agus an méid atá ráite freisin ag an Seanadóir Lee. Tá súil agam go mbeidh díospóireacht anseo againn tar éis tamaillín.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on Northern Ireland. We have a good record in this House for dealing with this issue and it would be an opportunity to clarify some matters which are causing concern. Nuclear waste in the Irish Sea concerns the North and the South of Ireland. This common cause is worth discussing in that context. As spokesman on Northern Ireland, I am anxious to have such a debate because of the concern over the reported refusal of the Taoiseach to meet Mr. John Hume and Mr. Gerry Adams. We all want to see this process advanced and we do not want to isolate anyone who has been involved in bringing about the peace which everyone has enjoyed for the past 14 months. I hope we can have such a debate here.
When an organisation such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, which has been in existence for 150 years, expresses concern at the growing incidence of attacks on its members, surely it is time for the Minister for Justice to respond to the breakdown of law and order and the spiralling drug problem in the country? I support the call for a debate on drugs and the breakdown of law and order. It is shocking that this organisation has made such a statement.
I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for the Environment if he has any plans to change the planning appeals regulations due to the fact that the Masonite plant in County Leitrim applied for planning permission 12 months ago, but it took one year before a decision was made. I am glad the decision was favourable. The Government should urgently consider this issue because it has a strong effect on industrial development.
I welcome the recent High Court decision about Clonmannon. If this House had been listened to two years ago and the actions which all sides called for had been taken at that time, a lot of misery would not have occurred, a lot of tax revenue would not have gone missing and many creditors would not have been as badly hurt as they were. However, it is better to have some action than none at all.
When will we see the Government's proposal for a Freedom of Information Bill? The Leader will recall that when we moved our Bill on Second Stage, I indicated that we would keep it on ice until such time as the Minister had the opportunity to come in with her proposals. I understand the Government is having some difficulties in framing its Freedom of Information Bill. I do not want to say "I told you so" but the route it is taking is fraught with difficulties. Can the Leader of the House find out when we will return to that issue, or else it will be necessary to resurrect our Bill, which is still on ice.
Second, I join in the concerns expressed about the rumoured changes in the governance of universities. It should be debated in this House. This House has a unique link with the universities. If, as is rumoured and widely reported, the Minister wants to change the governance of universities into a form of quango or a ministerial appointed organisation, it would be a retrograde step and we would all have reason to regret it in the long term. Party affiliation may prevent the Minister from agreeing with me, but I am certain his views on the matter would not be a million miles from mine.
Finally, I suggest to the Leader of the House that we make time for a debate on the reports of the Ombudsman. After all, the Ombudsman reports to both Houses of the Oireachtas. As far as I am aware, there has not been a full scale debate on this issue at any time. A lot of wisdom about the way the public service relates to the citizen is contained in those reports. We may have looked at one of them in the past but it would be timely to look at the whole operation. The Office of the Ombudsman has been in existence for almost ten years. It has made a unique contribution and it is bad that its reports should simply gather dust.
I would like to refer to a matter I raised last week and I wish to ask the Leader if there is any further information on it. I can locate some relevance to it in item No. 10, taking note of the reports of the Developments in the European Communities. The matter I refer to is the question of copyright law. This was introduced stealthily by the signature of a statutory instrument from Europe with no discussion in either House of the Oireachtas. When I inquired on this matter, I was told there was a necessity to comply with this by the end of June.
This measure, which seriously prejudices the Irish publishing industry by putting people like James Joyce and W.B. Yeats back retrospectively into copyright, has not been signed by most of the other members of the European Community because they are busy trying to deal with the complexities that will result in their jurisdictions. It is a great shame that this House did not have the opportunity to discuss such a matter. I ask the Leader to ensure this occurrence does not happen in future.
Of course, I am not pointing the finger at our distinguished Leader, but we did have until recently a committee that reviewed secondary legislation in the European Communities and I am sure this falls under the brief of the new Joint Committee on European Affairs or the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. We must rely on them to alert us to this kind of proposal when it comes through.
I also support my colleagues who raised the question of the serious concerns in university circles about the rumoured attempts to interfere with their management structure. I am all in favour of greater democracy, but in the matter of university administration this does not seem to me to be the way to go. A number of my former colleagues in Trinity College Dublin have expressed dismay, concern and real anger and this is not the way for a Government to proceed. There needs to be good relations between universities and Government. I ask the Government, if it is contemplating such a proposal, to think again.
Finally, I note that item No. 8, the Ethics in Public Office Act, 1995, is on the Order Paper. When will that be discussed? I am interested in ethics, although I am not claiming the high moral ground — perish the thought — but ethical considerations are important.
Continuing on this line, I ask the Leader if it will be possible to organise a debate on the media in Ireland. I say this in the full knowledge that the——
The Senator will invite them in.
——press benches are delightfully full today, but some newspapers do not report the proceedings of this House, which is one of my concerns. Unfortunately, The Cork Examiner appears to be about to drop reporting of the Oireachtas totally. That is a practical matter; but there are serious ethical concerns, particularly regarding the penetration of the British gutter ethic into this country. I would welcome an opportunity to deplore the following of Bishop Brendan Comiskey to a private clinic in the United States of America.
A question to the Leader, Senator.
Will he give us an opportunity to express our feeling that certain ethical standards, which are normally well observed by the press here, were seriously breached by the Sunday Independent?
In reply to a question from the other side of the House last week, the Leader, Senator Manning, confirmed that the Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons will come into force on 1 November, and let us hope it is operated in spirit as well as to the letter. As the House is aware, I visited UK prisons last September and in HMP Full Sutton we were excellently received. With your permission, a Chathaoirligh, I welcome to the House the chief chaplain of HMP Full Sutton, Reverend Ian Gomersall, and his wife, along with Sister Catherine of the Irish Commission for Prisoners Overseas.
I wish to recall a matter I raised with the Leader last week concerning the attendance of the Minister for Health in the Seanad. I appreciate he will be here today, but that is to discuss a specific Bill. Last week I mentioned the crisis looming in the VHI and newspaper reports since have verified that. This week there is a crisis in the Irish private nursing homes. The Seanad is a suitable forum for a broad debate on health and a number of issues must be dealt with, such as the White Paper on Mental Health. It is coming to the stage that we will have to insist that the Leader ask the Minister to come here for a debate. Those matters cannot continually be put on the long finger.
Will the Leader ask the Taoiseach if he agrees with the activities of his Members on the Joint Committee on Commercial State-sponsored Bodies in denying a businessman an opportunity to clear his name, when he had so requested?
That is not relevant to today's Order of Business or to this House.
It is relevant that a businessman did not get an opportunity to clear his name when he so wished.
It is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Is it in tandem with the policy of open Government, transparency and accountability——
That matter is not relevant, it is out of order.
——that we are supposed to be getting from this rainbow coalition?
No cover up.
I join with other Senators in calling for a debate on education but perhaps for a different reason, as it would afford me an opportunity to thank the Minister and her officials for arranging that students in St. Patrick's College, Carlow, will now be grant-aided. This is the first time it has happened in the college's 200 year history and so as far as Carlow is concerned it is both historic and significant. In order to show due respect to the Minister it is appropriate that she should be thanked here.
The Senator can talk to her himself.
I dtús báire ba mhaith liom aontú le Seanadóir Fitzgerald maidir le Lá na Gaeilge. Tá sé an-tábhachtach ar fad lá mar sin a chur ar siúl. I also join with other Senators in seeking a debate on the media. Senator Cassidy and I put down a motion on this at one point but the only other speaker was the current Leader of the House — that must be a record. Will there be much more interest in a debate on the media this time?
It is guaranteed.
I hope there will be. I also support Senator Reynolds about plannning. The length of time developers are held up and not allowed continue with work is disgraceful. It costs them both time and headaches. Many people who could work advantageously for this country have thrown in the towel because of the red tape and cost involved.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice to come here for a debate on crime and drugs? In this city children of ten or 12 are robbing BMWs and ramming Garda cars, but within two hours are back on the streets looking for another car to steal. What has happened to law and order and when will we come to grips with this?
Thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for allowing my motion on the Adjournment this evening. I am grateful. Regarding Senator Townsend's remarks, Senator Reynolds and I would welcome a discussion with him about an extension to a vocational school in County Leitrim. The Senator obviously knows the Minister much better than us.
A question to the Leader, please.
I endorse the request of my colleague, Senator Norris, in relation to copyright law. I am not as enthusiastic about the opposition to it as Senator Norris. There are many different aspects to this directive and it also has implications for the public library system. Perhaps the Leader could arrange a debate on this matter.
Does the Leader agree with what I hope would be the condemnation of the House of the remarks by representatives of Muintir na hÉireann last week? These bordered on anti semitism and effectively attacked two Jewish Members of the Oireachtas. There is no place in our culture or ethos for that type of attack or approach, particularly in the emotional environment of the divorce referendum. While I share much of the philosophy of Muintir na hÉireann, I am totally opposed to the direction it took in that regard. There is no——
A question to the Leader, Senator.
I hope the Leader will agree there is no culture of divorce in the Jewish religion. Their laws in this regard are more conservative than ours and the concept of illegitimacy is still enshrined——
A question to the Leader.
Only last week over 1,000 Jewish women in Britain picketed the office of the Chief Rabbi, looking for what is referred to in Jewish law as the get.
That is not relevant to the Order of Business. A question to the Leader, Senator.
I make this point to ensure people are aware there was no substance at all to that attack.
In fairness, Senator, that is not relevant to today's Order of Business.
There is no substance whatsoever to that attack and I hope the House will condemn it.
Some time ago Members were circulated with the programme of legislation which would dealt with by the Government. However, the only agricultural legislative proposals related to bovine diseases, the control of horses and the greyhound industry. Given that programme, there will be little discussion of agriculture in the House in this session and probably the next. I appeal to the Leader to arrange a debate on agriculture, particularly given the ongoing dispute between the vets and the Minister and his refusal of late to meet the veterinary union.
A question to the Leader, Senator.
From a reply to a question in the other House, there is concern about the number of consultants employed by the Department.
A question to the Leader.
This aspect has got out of hand.
We are not debating that subject today.
At present there is a delay in payments.
A question to the Leader.
A debate on agriculture is most necessary.
I renew my request to the Leader last week for a wide ranging debate on employment. This could be held in conjunction with a general debate——
We could have it tonight.
A question to the Leader.
I renew my call to the Leader for a general debate on employment. This should take place in the context of an overall debate on the economy. The Leader will be aware that, unfortunately, the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton, was unable to be present. The debate on the Industrial Development Bill, 1995, turned into a technical discussion. As the yearly Estimates time approaches and bearing in mind the need to keep the Irish budgetary situation in line with the Maastricht criteria for European Monetary Union, could we have a wide ranging debate on employment and the economy with the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance or the Minister for Enterprise and Employment present? There are 300,000 people unemployed——
Check the figures Senator.
There are about 300,000 people unemployed.
The Senator has made his point and he expanded on it last week. This is repetition.
I ask the Leader to organise a debate to examine the structural nature of long-term unemployment.
I knew my Private Members' motion was too vague when I put it down. I urge Senator Mulcahy to contribute on the motion this evening in as structured and principled a way as possible. I hope the Leader will encourage many Senators to speak on employment in the services sector where, I am glad to note from today's newspaper, there has been an increase in employment in the last few months.
Senator Henry mentioned her Private Members' motion to encourage Members to take part in the debate. I assure Senator Wright there will be a debate on nuclear policy sooner rather than later. There will also be a debate on drugs; we will see if we can structure it in a way other than the normal exchange of views across the House. There is a great deal of outside expertise which might be worth hearing.
The issue of third level education was raised by a number of speakers. As I understand it the details of proposed legislation have been sent to the heads of the Irish universities. They have made the details known within the universities. The Department of Education has promised a position paper which should be published shortly and it will provide an informed basis for the debate. It would not be a good idea to see the legislation rushed through. A position paper would be helpful. Any legislation will have to respect the distinctive ethos of all of the Irish universities. That is the position at present as I understand it. The Minister for Education has agreed to come to the House within the next couple of weeks for a debate on education in which it will be possible to raise and expand on these issues. I will bring any further information to the House.
I congratulate Senator Fitzgerald on being appointed Chief Whip of Fianna Fáil in the Seanad and I wish him well. He is always most courteous, helpful and honourable. I look forward to working with him.
No more Mr. Nice Guy now.
We should do something to mark Lá na Gaeilge; perhaps we could have a debate on the various reports of the Joint Committee on the Irish Language the purpose of which is to explore ways in which the use of Irish can be increased. The Whips may discuss this.
I assure Senator O'Kennedy we will have a debate on Northern Ireland and I hope it will be in the spirit he indicated.
How soon?
Senator Reynolds raised the planning process. There would be differences of views on that matter; I think the planning process is balanced and works well. However, if Senators have worries about the slowness of the process we will make time for them to be aired in the House.
I join Senator Roche in congratulating himself on the outcome of the Clonmannon issue. The Senator played a very honourable part in this. If he had been listened to earlier, things may have been different earlier.
I do not know the exact status of the Freedom of Information Bill, 1995. My suspicion is that it will be presented later rather than sooner, but I will give exact information to Senator Roche tomorrow morning on the current state of the Bill. The Senator's idea of a debate on the Ombudsman is something we should take up. It has been done before, but it is worth doing again.
With regard to the point raised by Senator Norris, I would like to know more about how these statutory instruments work and the way in which they can slip through. I would also like to know some more about copyright. Perhaps we could try to get some further information on this to avoid a repetition of the situation the Senator has described.
The Ethics regulations set out on the Order Paper are deemed to come into operation on 1 January 1996. We debated these extensively at the time of the passing of the Ethics in Public Office Act, 1995. However, if Members wish to have a debate on these regulations it can be arranged, although I do not believe such a debate is necessary.
I was using it as a hook to provoke a debate on the media and its influence.
We could have a debate on the media. We had a long debate on the media during the last session, especially when we discussed the position of the Irish Press and the restructuring of the Irish print media.
However, if Members would like to put down a specific motion to discuss the media in wider terms — I gather there is some interest in this among Members on all sides of the House — it would generate interest and may even ensure that we have a fuller Press gallery than normal. I would be happy to make time available for this.
With regard to the point raised by Senator Finneran, the Minister for Health has indicated that he will attend the House to participate in a wide ranging discussion on the issues raised by the Senator. I will communicate with the Senator regarding the date.
Senator Farrell raised the issue of planning, which I have addressed. All of us would like to associate ourselves with the view expressed by Senator Mooney on the remarks made by members of Muintir na hÉireann.
Senator Rory Kiely made a valid point in so far as we probably have not paid enough attention to agriculture in recent times. If Fianna Fáil are not putting forward a motion on agriculture under Private Members' Business, then as there are Members on all sides who would like to have a wide ranging discussion. I will see what can be done on this.
Could we get Government time for it?
We could. With regard to the point made by Senator Mulcahy, there is a debate this evening, promoted by Senator Henry, which will provide an opportunity to engage in discussion on the unemployment and the employment questions generally.
Order of Business agreed to.