It is proposed to take items 1, 13 and motion 25 today. We will deal with item 1 until 6 p.m. The first speaker from each group will have not more than 45 minutes and each subsequent speaker will have not more than 30 minutes. Item 25 will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
I thank the Leader for agreeing to permit contributions of 45 and 30 minutes in relation to item 1. It is not often such time limits are requested but, as the Leader is aware, there is immense interest in the Harbours Bill, 1995. The Leader will have received deputations and requests for meetings from people concerned about the Bill and many of my colleagues are anxious to express their concerns and table amendments.
Today our thoughts are with the families of the fishermen missing off the coast of County Donegal. Our sympathy also goes to the family of the man tragically killed off Howth Head last week. Perhaps the Minister for the Marine might comment when dealing with the Harbours Bill. I welcome the fact that he has called for a review of the rescue service operating on the east coast. When that review has taken place, I hope the Leader will request the Minister to return to the House to enable Members to comment. Many Members, on both sides of the House, are associated with the fishing industry. Our thoughts are with all concerned. I hope the Minister can ensure, by way of the review, that improved rescue services can be put in place to avoid a recurrence of the tragedy at Howth.
Last week I raised the question of the intervention of Mother Teresa of Calcutta in the debate on divorce. I wish to raise a related point today and ask the Leader a clear and specific question. Reports have been received from Reuters that the Pope has intervened in the divorce ballot in Ireland, has appealed to voters to reflect on the indissoluble nature of the bond of marriage and urges everyone to reflect on the importance of the——
That matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
——marriage bond.
The matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
In light of the fact that the Pope, as Head of State of the Vatican, has diplomatic representation in this country, will the Leader request the Minister for Foreign Affairs to indicate in unambiguous terms——
The Senator is out of order. I ask him to resume his seat.
——that this type of intrusion is unwelcome and will not be tolerated?
The Senator is out of order. That matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
I have asked a specific question. It is very relevant to the way in which this country is perceived in Northern Ireland by my co-religionists.
The question is out of order.
This matter represents a serious infringement of diplomatic protocol and I insist on being permitted to raise it.
The Senator will resume his seat. This is not the forum to raise the issue.
I look forward to a reply from the Leader to a very proper question.
What about Princess Diana's intervention?
She is another nincompoop.
I was going to suggest the House debate divorce to bring some balance into some of the statements which we have heard during the past few days but in light of what Senator Norris has just said, I will withdraw that proposal.
The Cathaoirleach will be aware that the Leader gave a commitment that item 13, motion 22, in Senator Honan's and my names about Trinity College would be taken before the end of this week. I know there is a general desire on the part of Members that we would not sit tomorrow so I am prepared to have it deferred until next week but I seek the Leader's assurance that it can be taken next week.
I agree with the remarks made by Senator Wright in particular about the tragedies which took place off the coasts of Donegal and Howth.
I am pleased to see the Leader has given enough time to debate the Harbours Bill in detail because there are Members who wish to make substantial contributions to it. I think I am correct in saying, and the Leader will correct me if I am wrong, that this debate is not to conclude at 6 o'clock; it will be resumed at a later date if there are still speakers offering.
We must welcome the historic peace agreement which was signed yesterday in the United States and hope Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia will at last have peace.
The final matter I wish to raise was mentioned by Senator Kiely over several weeks and that is a debate on agriculture. Today the Minister is making important announcements about the bovine tuberculosis eradication scheme and we should discuss it. There is also a dispute in the local departmental offices which have reverted to opening only in the morning. That leaves the Minister's farmers charter in tatters. There is also the closure of Teagasc's analytical services. For all of those reasons I recommend——
The Senator is looking for a debate on agriculture.
—— that we have a debate on agriculture at the earliest opportunity.
I ask the Leader to convey to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht the concern which has been expressed about the disposal of the photo library and cuttings of The Irish Press. I understand from media reports of the last few days that this particular aspect of the break-up of The Irish Press is to be sold to private tender and The Sunday Times, as a UK publication, has indicated an interest in acquiring this important collection. I believe this should be retained within the State because of the historical nature of The Irish Press, the manner in which it was formed in the early thirties and its central role in Irish life. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister to make a statement on the matter and to put forward the proposal that, in the event of the collection leaving the country, the State should acquire it through the National Library.
In view of the number of issues which are raised on the Adjournment and the Order of Business, I ask the Leader to ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to consider at a future date the possibility of introducing a system of written questions and answers to this House.
I reject Senator Norris's suggestion that the Pope is a nincompoop.
I have ruled that matter——
I did not suggest that.
——out of order.
I suggested Senator Roche was a nincompoop and I stand over it.
I said Princess Diana.
I ruled that matter out of order.
It is an insult.
It is not relevant to today's Order of Business.
It is an insult to the head of the Church.
Has the Senator a question which is relevant to today's Order of Business?
Yes. In view of the promises made earlier in the year by various Ministers about allocations of money for flood relief throughout the country, will the Leader ask the Minister for Finance when this money will be dispersed? The money has been promised all over the country but, not one penny has been spent yet and we are coming into the flooding season.
I again ask that a message of protest be sent to the French Government in response to yesterday's nuclear explosion on Mururoa Atoll. Can we also condemn the British Government's intervention? It was reported this morning that the French Ambassador to New Zealand said France is no longer isolated since Mr. John Major has supported their continuing the tests. It is outrageous that another test has taken place and that the British are involved.
In view of the recent horrific incidents in Nigeria and the full page advertisements placed by Shell in all national and international newspapers, may we have a debate on the intervention of multinational companies, such as Shell, in the internal politics of other countries purely for gain? In doing so they have caused ecological damage to Nigeria from which it will never recover and created a situation in southern Nigeria where we have murder by Government almost daily.
I join with Senator Lanigan in his condemnation of the resumption of nuclear testing by the French. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to bring forward proposals, as a matter of urgency, to resolve the nurses' dispute in Portlaoise, Tullamore and Mullingar hospitals?
I join with the leader of my group in expressing concern at the serious problem of the missing fishing boat in Donegal. While it is too late in the day to save the fishing boat presumed lost off the Donegal coast, I ask the Minister to implement the existing regulations. On paper there are fairly strict regulations relating to the control and licensing of fishing boats and small and pleasure craft but they have not been implemented because of a lack of will in the Department of the Marine. My county has paid too high a price for the lack of control of small fishing boats. The Leader will agree that this matter must be taken seriously if further lives are not to be lost.
I ask that we take item 10 today. In County Donegal a £2 million improvement project to build additional accommodation at a military barracks in Lifford is in progress. The contractor is completing the work although it has been recommended that the Lifford military barracks be closed. Surely this is the greatest folly anyone could witness. I propose that we discuss item 10 because we want to know where we stand.
Is the Senator moving an amendment to the Order of Business?
I move amendment No. 1:
That item 10 be inserted after item 1.
PDFORRA are in Donegal today looking at the possibility of closing the barracks. The work is not yet complete and this House should have an opportunity to express its dissatisfaction at the waste of public money to build a new military barracks.
You have made your point; you are moving an amendment to the Order of Business.
I am moving an amendment and I will press it. Even if I lose the vote I will be seen to have expressed concern about the matter. Is the Minister's Department concerned? The Government was quick to——
We are not discussing the matter now.
——stop the building of a prison in County Roscommon but continues to build a military barracks in County Donegal.
Senator McGowan will resume his seat.
I join Senator Wright in expressing sympathy to the family of the man who lost his life off Howth and the families of the fishermen who lost their lives off the Donegal coast. My own family suffered when I lost a brother at sea. It is inconceivable that in 1995 we can lose someone in sight of land and that a city the size of Dublin does not have a helicopter on standby. Such a service is not needed just for marine rescues; it could be needed if there was a fire in a high rise building in Ballymun. While I welcome the review which the Minister has stated he is going to initiate, it is inconceivable that, in this day and age, we cannot station a crew overnight at Baldonnel with a helicopter fully equipped to undertake any kind of rescue that is needed at sea or on land.
Last week Members touched on the murder of Ken SaroWiwa. We have also had discussions on East Timor and on ethnic cleansing. If one looks at parliamentary agendas around Europe, it is interesting to note that the same issues come up time and again. Perhaps the Leader will consider the possibility of an initiative by the House whereby both Houses of the Oireachtas suggest at European level that there should be a parliamentary human rights watch dog established to oversee abuses of human rights, not just outside Europe, but any that occur in Europe. Such a body would help to inform public debate and decisions regarding aid and, above all, to inform and to police the decisions that multinationals make. There are informal human rights watches that operate in Europe, but parliamentary assemblies throughout Europe, including the European Parliament, should, at this stage, consider establishing such a body. Will the Leader consider a debate of this proposal?
The recent McKenna decision in the Supreme Court will have profound effects not just for what will happen on Friday but, more importantly, for the long term. It raises the issue of the appropriateness of Government intervention on the information side of any referendum. I have argued for some years that Governments are tainted with politics and cannot be value free in the provision of information. We need a constitutional commission to handle the administration of referenda after the political decision has been made.
A question to the Leader.
Would it be possible for the Leader to arrange for the McKenna decision, and the decisions which now need to follow from it, to be discussed in the House?
I apologise for raising this issue for the seventh or eighth time, but during the week the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs made an interesting speech on the Western European Union and the change to the Western European Union Charter, suggesting that it may make this bizarre institution more palatable to Irish tastes. This would not be the case but it appears that with 1996 and certain post-Maastricht decisions approaching, we need a debate on this issue.
A question to the Leader.
Could we have such a debate either in the context of foreign affairs or defence policy?
I join with Members in sending sympathy to the relatives of the fishermen lost off the coast of County Donegal. It was a great tragedy. Arising from a report which I saw in a newspaper recently, and having made some inquiries, I am concerned about a possible take-over of Greencore plc, the company established as a result of the privatisation of the sugar industry by a decision of both Houses of the Oireachtas. At the time of the establishment of the company, the then Minister for Agriculture and Food inserted a section in the relevant Act which gave the right to a golden share that would protect the sugar industry in the event of any take-over.
One could call it a sweetener.
If this matter arises, will the Leader convey my concern to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry and ask if the validity of the section will be invoked?
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht to raise an urgent matter with the Director General of RTÉ, that is, the seriousness of relaying the all-Ireland hurling and football semi-finals and finals to North America, and the dubbing over of voices from RTÉ and the anomalies that have been brought to bear in this regard on our citizens living in North America, including the exorbitant prices they are being forced to pay——
That is not a matter for today's Order of Business.
This situation is serious.
This is a matter for RTÉ.
I think it is a matter for the Minister responsible for RTÉ and I call on the Leader to bring it to his notice immediately. This situation results in millions of pounds being taken from taxpayers.
This matter has already been ruled out of order.
By whom?
Last week a Senator sought to raise it on the motion for the Adjournment of the House and it was ruled out of order.
The matter is serious and I call on the Leader to ask the Minister to come to the House. This issue affects taxpayers.
I have already ruled on this.
I too wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to the families of those who were lost off the coast of Donegal and the fisherman who was drowned off Howth. During the debate on the Harbours Bill Members will have a chance to put their concerns to the Minister for the Marine. I will convey to him that the House welcomes his decision to set up a review group.
Senator Norris raised the issue of the intervention of the Pope. I am not aware that the Pope has intervened but if he has I will make sure the Minister for Foreign Affairs is aware of the Senator's feelings on the matter.
Send him a telegram.
It is a serious matter. We should look at the Belfast Newsletter. This would be an important journal to read if we want to see a reaction to this kind of interference.
I regard the question raised by Senator Norris as serious and I am treating it as such.
I accept that and I am grateful the Leader is taking it seriously but a Senator on this side is not.
Senator Dardis raised the question of a debate on what he calls Trinity College but what some of us would prefer to call the future governance of all third level education establishments. Our vistas are slightly broader. This debate will take place on Thursday morning next week. It is hoped that a position paper will be available early next week and it will be distributed to Members at the earliest possible moment before the debate.
All of us would like to congratulate those involved in negotiating the peace in Bosnia and we keep our fingers crossed that this peace will hold.
The question of bovine TB was raised. I will inquire into this matter.
Agriculture in general.
Senator Mooney raised an interesting question about the dispersal of the assets of the Irish Press group. It was sad yesterday to see how the assets of a once great institution were dispersed in almost an inhuman way. I do not know if the National Library would be the proper repository for press cuttings. I suspect that it already has most of that material. However, such cuttings may form a useful archive for a university or other centre of learning. I will convey the concerns of the Senator to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht.
Senator Doyle raised the question of written questions. Ministers are not directly responsible to this House as they are to the Dáil. However, we do have a device, which has fallen into disuse, by which Members could raise matters of concern. If Senator Doyle has specific proposals, he might refer them to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Senator Lanigan raised the issue of flood relief. The Minister has indicated he will come to the House either next week or within the next ten or 12 days to give an update on the flood relief programme and on the issues raised by the Senator. I will be able to provide a specific date for the Minister's appearance either later today or tomorrow.
I agree with Senator Lanigan and others that the behaviour of the French Government is outrageous and it is important that the views of Members of all parties and of none are expressed once again to the French Ambassador. However, protests made not just here but throughout the world have made little difference.
A question about Nigeria was raised. I do not know enough about this issue at this stage. Two points of view are being put across. I am sure it will be possible to arrange a broader discussion on that matter. The Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs has discussed Nigeria and will do so again.
Regarding Senator McGowan's request, it is not possible to take item 10 today. The Harbours Bill and the Fianna Fáil Private Members' motion have been ordered. Perhaps we could discuss the position and agree another occasion on which to raise the matter.
I note Senator Magner's comments. Senator Roche raised a number of points. It should be possible to deal with some of those issues next week during the discussion on the intergovernmental conference. The issues raised by the McKenna case are serious and merit a calm discussion. This may be possible to arrange, perhaps after Christmas.
I will convey Senator Sherlock's concern and query to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry. I will also convey Senator Dan Kiely's point, even if it is out of order, to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht.
What about Senator Honan's question?
Senator Honan raised the strikes at Portlaoise hospital. The Minister is aware of the position but I will convey the Senator's concern about the urgency of the situation to him.
Senator McGowan moved an amendment to the Order of Business, that item 10 be inserted after item 1. However, the amendment was not seconded and consequently falls.
Order of Business agreed to.