Today's Business is item 1, without debate, and item 2. I hope that we will be able to finish item 2 today, but if by 5 p.m. it has not been completed we will adjourn. There will be a sos.
Order of Business.
I welcome the fact that item 1 is on the agenda. When I was Leader of the House the current Leader was a member of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges which passed the regulations that allow us to invite people of the stature of Professor Dooge to the House. I hope it is the first of many invitations. I agree with the Order of Business.
I agree with the call by the president of the IFA this morning for a co-ordinated effort to protect the good name of the beef industry. If the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry wishes to use this House today to convey the message he has been trying to convey since the announcements in the past 24 hours in the United Kingdom, he will be welcome here. Fianna Fáil wishes to be part of whatever efforts are made to ensure the protection of the beef industry and to uphold the good name worldwide of Irish beef. If the Minister agrees, we can change the Order of Business to allow him to speak to the House today, so we can all support his efforts to protect the industry.
I support the Order of Business today. I also support Senator Wright's call to offer the Minister the opportunity to use this House to protect the good name of Irish beef. I am very concerned about this. Many people are concerned at the huge damage that could be done. The Minister has made strenuous efforts in the past few hours to protect the name of Irish beef. I caution him, however, on the assumption that throwing money at advertising will automatically solve the problem. We must ensure that our house is in order, that those who hear the message know the Minister is able to stand over it.
There are deep concerns which will not be allayed by advertising or talking. It would be far better to spend some days ensuring there is no question mark over Irish beef so that when the Minister proclaims that, we can stand over it. I will welcome the Minister if he decides to use this House to argue the case for Irish beef. It is very important that we do not let this scare continue.
I join the Leader of the Opposition in welcoming Professor Dooge. I hope this is the first of many such invitations. It has taken a long time to reach agreement that distinguished visitors should be invited to address the House and I welcome this positive development.
I support Senator Wright's and Senator Quinn's comments regarding the unfortunate BSE scare in England. It is most regrettable that a group which found no scientific evidence of a connection between BSE and Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease went on to state that it thought there was a connection. However, we must accept what has been said and that it is most damaging. I agree that the Minister should produce specific proposals regarding the meat trade to England, which is worth £200 million to the Irish industry.
What specific proposals does the Minister have in mind to protect that trade and to emphasise that Ireland has dealt with this matter effectively over the years? Our procedures are very good and the quality of our beef is excellent in terms of health and in every other respect. I agree with Senator Quinn that advertising is not necessarily the way to deal with this matter and that other approaches might be made through the trade. However, it is a matter of serious gravity and, given its magnitude, it would be appropriate for the Minister to attend the House to outline his specific response to it.
I feel as strongly as Senator Quinn about this matter, and perhaps closer to it because I was the Minister who introduced the slaughter policy in Ireland at considerable cost when these incidents first emerged in Britain. The British Government failed to introduce that policy. I was also the Minister who received recognition from the Council of Ministers and our markets in Europe that Irish beef was beyond question due to the policy we pursued from the start. It is important to point out that there were 120 cases of BSE in Ireland over approximately eight years, most of which can be traced to pedigree cattle which were imported for specific reasons; on a couple of occasions it was possible to identify the food chain.
Much must be done to highlight these facts and I support my colleagues' suggestion that the Minister should avail of this forum today to get across the point of the unquestionable status of Irish beef. There is also a case for the Commission to relax the rules which prevent countries marketing produce under their national brand names. Under Commission rules it is not permissible to market our beef as Irish beef. However, in view of the problem which has emerged, a major effort should be made in negotiations with Europe to allow our beef to be marketed, even for a limited period, as Irish beef. The Scots do this with Angus beef, but it is not called Scottish beef. I agree with and support all the efforts being made with regard to this matter. The foundation on which we are building is strong and I hope action can be taken.
Regarding an issue raised on yesterday's Order of Business, it has emerged overnight that the British Government may announce in the House of Commons today the provisions it will make regarding electoral arrangements which may be suggested as part of the peace process. I asked yesterday that the Tánaiste should be invited to attend the Seanad, as it is the only House in session this week, to formally give Members the benefit of the Government's view on this matter. I understand the Tánaiste was made aware of this proposal last evening and perhaps he wishes to use this forum to give Members a flavour of the Government's response so that we can be as supportive as possible.
I support Members' comments about the protection of the Irish beef industry. The House should do anything it can to assist the Minister. Senator O'Kennedy is correct when he says that the nub of the problem is that there will be a drop in the consumption of beef generally and not just Irish beef by the British public. We must distinguish Irish beef from British beef because the incidence of BSE in Ireland is minuscule in comparison to Britain. The key to marketing is to specifically identify the meat as Irish beef rather than beef in general. This is the challenge and I hope the House can assist in that regard.
I support the suggestion that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry should be invited to the House as huge dangers are involved in the recent BSE scare in Britain. This is not based on full scientific evidence, but rather in the belief that a connection exists. However, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease has been identified for over 100 years while mad cow disease has been around for less than ten years. It is, therefore, difficult to understand how a disease in cattle could cause a disease which has been endemic in humans for over 100 years.
Specific dangers are posed to the Irish beef industry because once word gets out that there are problems in Britain and Ireland in terms of BSE, Australia, Argentina and other beef exporting countries which are entering the Middle East market will use it as a marketing ploy. We have not heard that these cattle exporting countries have problems with BSE.
They tried it before.
We can be sure that the wires in those beef exporting nations are hot regarding this matter.
I am glad Ireland is opening an embassy in Israel. I opposed this move many years ago, but it is now opportune. However, according to today's The Irish Times it is not definite that the embassy will be based in Tel Aviv. The wrong message could go out if it is not based there. The only other place the Israeli's might wish it to be based is Jerusalem, and there is a move to base embassies there. However, this would send the wrong signal and we should ensure that the Irish embassy is based in Tel Aviv.
I am delighted Ireland is opening diplomatic relations with Mozambique. This came about because Ireland is targeting aid to that country. Given that this line of communication will be opened, it is timely to hold a debate on aid. Major problems are associated with world aid at present because many donor countries are using it as a political tool. There are major problems in every area to which aid is being channelled and a debate on aid from Ireland, multilateral, bilateral or through NGOs, would be appropriate. It is time to find out what exactly is being done with the money given to these countries. The NGOs are doing a good job and the bilateral aid programme is also good. However, the multilateral aid programmes through international bodies are a disgrace and the House should debate this matter.
I agree with the suggestion that the Leader should invite the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry to the House today to debate the BSE problem. It is important to emphasise the steps taken by Senator O'Kennedy when he was the Minister to deal with this problem. The point was made on a number of programmes yesterday that Ireland dealt with this problem head on as it arose. It is also regrettable that Ireland is in a bind in that it cannot use the national brand name to sell its produce in England and elsewhere. I am aware of one firm which sells 1,200 to 1,400 animals a week in that market and it cannot brand name it as Irish beef. This should be possible. It is important to signal that this country is not in the same position as the UK in regard to this issue. Will the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry give us an hour or two of his time so that we can redress any damage which has been done?
Will the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Social Welfare to give some indication of the operation of the differential rent scheme, in view of the increasing problems in this area? There is widespread concern and dissatisfaction with the operation of the scheme. The Leader will be aware of the public anger aroused this morning when the corporation attempted to evict a woman in Mulhuddart for non-payment of rent. Some tenants are not in a position to pay the rents levied on them, resulting in cases such as the one this morning when, without the intervention of Gay Byrne, a woman and her five children would have been left on the side of the street. What does the Minister for Social Welfare or the Minister for the Environment propose to do about this?
Is the Senator saying people should not pay rent?
(Interruptions.)
There is an urgent need to follow-up the impressive statement by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry last evening. The Minister was convincing in his use of comparable figures. Great damage could be done to the beef industry. It behoves everyone — the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, producers and factory management — to ensure the use of angel dust to promote growth is stopped, once and for all.
Absolutely, that was part of the joint strategy I launched.
I support the call for the Minister to address this House.
I support the call for a full explanation of the position of Irish beef so that its good name will be maintained around the world. I also ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, the Minister for Health and other Ministers to ensure the health of the people, having regard to products imported from England from possibly infected beef. I refer to meat pies, sausages and other products. It is a matter of grave concern that the public can be exposed to this disease through the importation of such products. We have a responsibility to protect people's health. While the cattle industry is very important, our people come first. The importation of products made from offal should be thoroughly investigated and the public must be assured there are not infected products on the shelves of shops and supermarkets.
I previously raised the issue of insurable care for psychiatric patients under the new regulations to be agreed between insurers and the Department of Health. Unofficial information has come to hand which indicates that psychiatric patients will receive only 100 days of insurable cover, while patients in other health care areas will receive 180 days. This is terrible discrimination against psychiatric patients. I hope the information brought to my attention is incorrect, but if it is not we have a duty to ensure psychiatric patients are not discriminated against. Will the Minister for Health make a statement on this matter? I am amazed a distinction is made between psychiatric and general patients. Similar guidelines and regulations should apply to all patients buying private health insurance cover.
I join the Senators who expressed concern in regard to the beef industry and I support the Minister. The point has been well made so I will not labour it.
I join Senator Dardis in welcoming the motion in the name of the Leader inviting Mr. Jim Dooge to address the House. This is a worthwhile step forward. I know Jim Dooge well as I served with him for many years on the Irish Council of the European Movement and he will give a very good address. We should not be afraid to invite distinguished people to address the House and, once we get used to the idea, the next time there is a suggestion to invite Mother Teresa of Calcutta to the House we will not be afraid to hear what the little lady might have to say to us.
I support other Senators in relation to the beef industry which is at a very critical stage. Will the Leader provide time for a debate on level crossings? The Department of the Environment, local authorities or Iarnród Éireann do not want to take responsibility for widening level crossings. This House is an ideal forum for a debate on this matter. The majority of level crossings need to be altered because of changes in transport and agricultural machinery. If the legislation needs to be changed to deal with this we should initiate such changes in this House.
I wish to be associated with the call for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry to make a statement to the House. The beef industry is at risk since the North and South of Ireland constitute on entity at EU level. When derogations and so on are negotiated with regard to animal health matters, the UK spokesman comes to one arrangement for Great Britain and a separate one for the North and South of Ireland. I would like to be assured by the Minister that Northern Ireland and the 26 counties are at one in their approach to this issue. The presentation of this matter is a problem because the tabloid newspapers have treated it as if expert opinion does not count. The North and South must look very seriously at the presentation of this matter.
I appreciate the welcome from all sides of the House for item 1, which is a very timely move on our part. I know it will be a success and I hope it will become a regular feature of our proceedings.
I thank the Senators who made contributions on the BSE scare. The point was well made that this matter of vital national importance calls for a coordinated national effort. Some of the points raised this morning are very relevant, particularly the point by Senator Quinn and Senator Sherlock that there is a need to ensure, as we do, that everything in our industry is beyond reproach. There is also a need in marketing and presentation terms to counteract the huge potential damage which faces this vital industry. I thank Senators for their contributions on that issue. Senator O'Kennedy's contribution was particularly worthwhile as was that of Senator McAughtry on the marketing aspect.
Senator O'Kennedy raised the question of electoral arrangements in Northern Ireland. This will be announced in the House of Commons today when a full document will be made available. Only then can a debate on the proposals begin. We should bear in mind that the ultimate aim is to get to all party talks. It would be a great pity if the electoral arrangements were to become a matter of fundamental principle between the parties. It would be better for us to wait and see and encourage people to move towards the final objective of all party talks rather than get too bogged down or back people into intractable positions about what is really a means to an end.
Senator Lanigan referred to the establishment of an embassy in Israel which I welcome. I support the Senator's views on where it should be located. A debate on aid would also be worthwhile. Senator Daly raised the problem in Mulhuddart. Rather than rush to judgment, we should hear the full story.
From the Minister in this Chamber.
Senator Finneran asked about offal based imports and I will bring his remarks to the attention of the Minister. Perhaps his question about the care of psychiatric patients should be raised on the Adjournment and if that does not succeed, we can look at another way of raising it.
Senator Lydon's point is well taken.
Is the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry in a position to take up our offer?
I attempted to make contact with the Minister through the Chief Whip during the Order of Business. That has not proved possible. I will attempt again, immediately after the Order of Business, to contact the Minister and extend the invitation to him to come here today. I will be in touch with the Senator about it as soon as possible.
What time is the sos?
Between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.
Order of Business agreed to.