Today's Order of Business is items 1, 2 and 3. Item 1 will be taken until 12 p.m., when it will conclude, and the Minister will respond not later than 11.45 a.m. Item 2 will be taken between 12 p.m. and 1 p.m. and if it has not concluded by 1 p.m. it will continue after 3 p.m. until conclusion. Item 3 will be taken from 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. and I propose ten minutes for each speaker.
Order of Business.
What is the time arrangement for item 1? Is it 30 minutes or does the Leader wish to change it?
At present it is 30 minutes, but not many Members are offering and they may share if they wish.
The Leader is aware of newspapers reports today in relation to the fishing industry and the EU proposal for a 40 per cent reduction in the size of the fleet. There is also a possibility of similar cuts in the quotas. This would devastate one of our national industries and I ask the Leader to afford the House an opportunity, before the summer recess, to get across our support for the Minister who must fight the cause at EU level on behalf of the industry and the many people who depend on it.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice to congratulate the Governor of Mountjoy Prison, Mr. John Lonergan, for giving the staff and prisoners there access to RTÉ personnel who are making the programmes we hear each day on "Morning Ireland"? They are most informative and gives the public some idea of the concerns of the staff and prisoners in the jail.
At this stage we cannot say with certainty who won the Israeli elections but it seems as if Mr. Netanyahu will emerge as the new Prime Minister of Israel. The House should urge, whether through the Tánaiste or the Taoiseach, that the peace process should continue in the Middle East and Israel. Those of us who were there for the Palestinian elections were most inspired and we hope the progress can be maintained. It is our hope that, irrespective of who wins the election, the peace process will continue.
I do not know if the Forfás report has been circulated to Members. If not, perhaps the Leader could arrange for it to be circulated. The House should discuss it within the next few weeks by way of statements.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Social Welfare to come to the House to discuss the students' summer jobs scheme? This scheme was introduced by the Labour Party when they were in Government with Fianna Fáil.
They are on their own now. Where are they now when they are needed?
It has proved to be an excellent and popular scheme with students. In light of the success of the scheme certain refinements could take place.
Nobody said that.
A debate on the scheme would be useful.
A question on todays' Order of Business, Senator?
Those who criticise the scheme do not know how it works.
During yesterday's debate——
I told the Senator I would deal with whatever point he wanted to raise after today's Order of Business. Ask a question relevant to today's Order of Business for the Leader of the House.
I will proceed accordingly. I request that the Minister for Social Welfare come into the House and explain why the student summer jobs scheme has collapsed.
It has not.
We dealt with this yesterday.
This is misinformation.
The Senator's arguments have been.
The Senator has many ways of raising that besides on the Order of Business.
This is misinformation.
Will the Leader——
A million pounds has been——
The Senator has asked his question. If he has another question——
Why have you shackles up?
——for the Leader, I ask him to put it. If not, I ask the Senator to resume his seat.
I am asking for your protection, guidance and help.
The Senator does not need protection.
I am asking the Senator to resume his seat.
I know but——
I am asking the Senator to resume his seat.
Sit down.
I am asking the Senator to resume his seat for the last time. There is a long standing precedent in this House that when the Chair makes a ruling no comment is allowed from the floor. I am asking you now to resume your seat.
I am asking you to allow me to request a debate——
The Senator has done that.
——on a matter that I have not been satisfied on. Why does the Cathaoirleach get angry with me? Why are his shackles up?
Has the Senator no respect for the Chair?
I have no option but to suspend the House for 15 minutes.
The Cathaoirleach can adjourn the House but I will be back here to raise it again.
We will be back to help the Senator.
The Senator should be here long enough to have enough of guidance at this stage.
Bloody arrogance.
Sitting suspended at 10.40 a.m. and resumed at 10.55 a.m.
You have offered Senator McGowan an opportunity to make a point of order after the Order of Business, Sir?
Yes. I informed the Senator three times that I would allow him in after the Order of Business.
That may not have been understood in the heat of the argument.
Thank you, Senator, but I will not allow disorder in the House. While everybody is entitled to express their views and I am sure that will happen when I am in the Chair, I will not allow disorder in the House.
Can we bring the Minister for Finance to the House to have a debate on the national lottery? There is great unease among the public that no £10,000 prizes have yet been won from its scratch cards. This seemed to be clear from the debate on RTÉ this morning. It is unjust and unfair that people buy these scratch cards thinking they have a chance of winning a £10,000 prize when it is obvious it is not there. We should have a full debate on the national lottery.
There are other ways of raising this issue, as the Senator well knows.
Can you advise me on how I can raise it, Sir? It should be raised. If the prizes are not available, they should not be advertised on the ticket and the matter should be clarified. Some two million of these tickets are sold each week.
It is not a matter for the Order of Business. There are other ways of raising it.
I support Senator Henry's welcome for the Governor of Mountjoy Prison in allowing RTÉ to report directly from there. If the reports emanating from that prison underline anything, it is the grave error made by the Government in not allowing the building of the high security prison in Castlerea. That facility was never more needed than now and that has been underlined by these reports.
Can the Leader ask the appropriate Ministers to elaborate on a report that a motorway is to be laid down through Leopardstown race-course? This is the flagship racecourse in the Dublin area. The Irish Field report provides a sketch outline which shows that racegoers would have to take a bus to get to the grandstand and there are various other worrying aspects to this proposal.
On the Control of Horses Bill, can the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry enlighten us, for example, on whether assistance would be given on licence fees for horses etc. I have seen loose horses roaming around the Cherry Orchard area. To what extent will boys who own horses be assisted under the Bill?
I am sure the Senator will find another way of raising that issue.
I support Senator Dardis' request to the Leader of the House to have an opportunity to discuss the Fórfas report on long-term economic planning. An RTÉ journalist said on "Morning Ireland" this morning that long-term economic planning might be abandoned if there was a new Fianna Fáil-PD alliance. The PD's can speak for itself, but before the Labour Party was in Government, the Fianna Fáil Administration had accepted the principal of long-term economic planning and made it clear that in no way would it be at risk. It is unfair to let people make comments like this.
Have you a question relevant to today's Order of Business, Senator?
The Leader should talk to RTÉ to ensure it puts independent commentators and not ones scoring political points on the air.
I also want to comment on the issue raised by our Leader about the risk posed to jobs in our fish processing industry because of the European Commission's proposals that fishing activity should be reduced by 40 per cent. Such a reduction would have a devastating effect on the industry and I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister for the Marine to give us an up to date report on the situation in Brussels? There is serious concern on this matter. This is happening at a time when the Community is allowing a huge increase in the number of Spanish fishing boats to operate off our coastline.
We are not discussing the matter this morning. You are supporting the Leader of your group.
We should get an opportunity to discuss this matter before the Summer Recess.
I am sure the Leader of the House has taken your point.
I am shocked and horrified by the news that Senator McAughtry has dropped on us, that the premier racecourse of Dublin could be altered. If this must happen, can we ensure the motorway goes through the flat rather than the jumps course so that we would at least preserve some of our heritage?
The Government has recently produced a report on the needs of children in special education. The Minister for Education and representatives from her Department came to this House on a number of occasions and said she would put resources into special and remedial education etc. The Minister guaranteed us that this report would not gather dust in the Department. However, the Minister decided this year that no resources will be put into the area of children with special needs and those in need of remediation. It is disgraceful and we should ask for an updated report from the Minister on the progress she has made in implementing the recommendations of this costly report.
Can the Leader of the House afford us the opportunity to debate health issues? While he allowed a partial debate, it was confined to drugs and in no way allowed for the broad debate we have sought for some time. I mentioned a number of headings to him before. I will do so again and ask him that they be included in a health debate — for example — the debate on the White Paper on Mental Health. A report suggests that many young children have committed suicide in the Eastern Health Board area. Can the Leader put this and the nursing home issue on the agenda as well? I hope such a debate will come about in this session.
A recent report regarding the quality of water in the River Shannon was published and it established that it is in poor shape. The Shannon is one of the finest waterways in Europe and we should have a debate on that report. It would be unfortunate to leave it on the shelf. Can the Leader give us the opportunity to debate it? That report was commissioned by local authorities and it involved up to ten of them. It would be opportune to debate the issue in this House and we could then make our views known on it.
I support Senator O'Toole's call concerning the provision for children with special needs. I also ask the Leader to congratulate the Minister for Education for her wisdom, however belated, in withdrawing the proposals concerning the role of history and geography in the junior certificate. I also venture the hope that no future Minister for Education will ever demean that office by venturing so ill-considered a proposal in future.
A request was made to discuss the comments made about Mountjoy Prison on the radio this morning. One of the prisoners was asked which he would opt for if he was given a choice between a £500 fine or six months in jail. He said that he would take the six months in jail because he would go in on a Friday and get out next Tuesday. The prisoner was asked what he thought of the matter. He said that he goes home and comes back when the governor tells him. I ask the Leader of the House to raise this as a matter of priority. The prisoners are dictating to the courts. I also ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Justice to intervene in a case where a justice in the west sent a man to prison for five years for a minor offence.
There are many other ways of raising this issue, Senator.
The justice said the reason for this heavy sentence was because the person had misused the court's time.
We are not discussing that matter, Senator.
I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Justice about this matter.
You have made your point.
He sat there for 20 years.
Can we have a debate to find out whether the Offences Against the State Act should be adjusted in respect of what is happening in the drugs situation? Section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act gives specific authority to judges and the State to do certain things. Why should there be a difference between republican offences against the State and real offences against the State which are carried out by the drug barons? If the Government can act in the case of republican offences why should it not do so where drugs are concerned?
The Senator has made his point.
I am asking the Leader a question.
We are not discussing the matter now and the Leader is aware of the Senator's question.
I am not discussing anything; I am asking the Leader a question. Perhaps the name of the Act should be changed to the Offences Against the People Act because the people are the State. However, there appears to be a difference between offences against them and offences against the State.
The Senator has made his point.
Could the Leader contact the Minister who is in charge of charitable organisations about the report in today's newspaper concerning the People in Need charity which was ripped off to the extent of 60 per cent of its revenue?
There are other ways to bring up that matter.
I am asking a question of the Leader.
The issue does not arise on today's Order of Business.
Mr. Mervyn Smith, the organiser of Madison Publications Limited, said: "The whole idea was to raise as much money as possible and try to spend as little as possible. We definitely believed that between contestants, advertising hoardings, tickets——
There are other ways of raising this matter. The Senator knows he is out of order.
——and any rich Arabs who wanted to throw some money in.....". If charity in Ireland boils down to rich Arabs who have money to throw away, it is time for this to be thrown out.
The Senator is continually ignoring the Chair. I ask him to resume his seat.
I beg your pardon, a Chathaoirligh. There has been some heat generated in the House in the last few days. If any Member wishes to get away from the heat, he or she should visit Kilkenny for the weekend and take part in "The Cat Laughs" festival.
That does not arise on the Order of Business either.
They might learn something from the stand-up comedians.
I thought the Senator would be encouraging Members to go to Croke Park to watch Kilkenny play.
The House recently debated the Government document Putting Children First. In the course of that debate I voiced my serious concern about the inadequacy of support and assistance available to foster parents. According to reports issued in the last few days, children who are placed in care are actually being hospitalised because of the inadequate number of foster parents and places in care institutions. There appears to be a crisis in this area.
Could the Leader arrange for the Minister responsible to come before the House, possibly before the conclusion of today's business, to make a statement on what provisions he intends to make in order to provide facilities for children who are at risk? There is no point in us being given documentary presentations about this matter 20 or 30 years hence, as was the case with the Goldenbridge orphanage. We need to tackle the matter now.
I support Senator Lanigan's proposal of a discussion with the Minister for Justice about the problem of drug barons. The Garda are very restricted in what they can do to combat these people because of legislation and the constitutional rights of individuals. A debate such as the one suggested would be desirable. I advocated such a debate some time ago.
On many occasions Members of the House have criticised semi-State bodies. Two semi-State bodies, Telecom Éireann and Bord Gáis, held their annual general meetings yesterday and published their accounts. We should convey to the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications our congratulations on the magnificent performances achieved by both bodies. Usually Members find some reason to criticise these bodies——
That has nothing to do with today's Order of Business.
The Cathaoirleach usually allows great latitude when a Member stands to criticise. I am standing to praise.
Has the Senator a question for the Leader of the House?
Will the Leader communicate to the Minister the views of many people throughout the country who are pleased to see two semi-State bodies turning in such excellent performances?
I rise to support my colleagues who have raised the law and order and drugs issues. There is a great sense of frustration on this side of the House because when the Minister for Justice comes before the House to debate these matters there appears to be an unwritten agenda and background that cannot be explained.
The Senator will have an opportunity to raise those matters this afternoon. I take it the Senator is supporting the other Members.
I have a specific request. I ask the Leader of the House to ask the leaders of the three political parties in Government to come before the House and offer a consistent view on the law and order issue. It was clear from the Árd Fheis speech of Deputy Prionsias De Rossa, the text of which I have to hand, that there are serious questions——
We are not discussing Árd Fheis or any other political speeches in this House.
Serious questions must be raised about the commitment of some components of the Government to the law and order situation. I would like the three party leaders——
The Senator has made his point.
Will I get an answer to my question?
That is a matter for the Leader of the House.
The Leader indicated last week that we would have a general debate on agriculture. Last night's debate was about a specific matter. A general debate is being held in the Dáil today and I would appreciate an indication from the Leader that a general debate on agriculture will be held soon in the Seanad. Prices for agricultural produce are decreasing while costs are increasing. In view of the delay in the administration of the farm pollution grants and other matters, it is essential that a debate on agriculture is held quite soon. It is one of our major industries.
The Forfás report has already been mentioned. Could the Leader of the House arrange a debate on long-term economic planning? The RTÉ journalist who commented on this matter on the radio this morning clearly has a bizarre interest in economic history. The offensive nonsense he spoke suggests that he should be consigned to covering the cartoon festival in Rathdrum. Clearly, it is more in line with his expertise than economics.
We need a debate on crime and law and order. The Labour Party is fully committed to seeing that all criminals are brought to justice. The people we represent are more often the victims than the perpetrators of crime.
Was that a question to the Leader?
As the only Cork hurler in the House, the Cathaoirleach might allow me to congratulate Senator Rory Kiely on Limerick's historic victory over Cork last Sunday. I look forward to the encounter between his county and Senator Daly's county.
Before responding to the Order of Business, I wish to point out that this is a House of Parliament and some of the points raised this morning are a disgrace to a House of Parliament. I ask my colleagues to take the Order of Business seriously. If we do not take ourselves seriously, nobody else will. I am sure my sentiments are shared by the Leader of the Opposition and other Members of the House.
I propose a change to today's business because the Order of Business has taken far longer than anticipated. I propose that item 1 be taken until 12.30 p.m. with the Minister to conclude not later than 12.15 p.m. It is proposed to order item 2, which was ordered from 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock, from 12.30 p.m. to 1.30 p.m. If it is not completed it will be taken after item 3.
In response to Senator Wright, I would be happy to arrange a debate on the fishing industry and the proposed cuts in that area. It is a matter of urgency and I will do my best to ensure that the debate takes place as soon as possible. I agree with Senators' comments on the open policy of Mountjoy in giving RTÉ access throughout the prison. It was a useful exercise and it is clear that there is more than one point of view on the issue.
Senator Dardis and other Senators raised the Forfás report. I will ensure that it is circulated. It is an important issue and I will make time available for it. A number Senators raised the summer jobs scheme. I told Senator McGowan yesterday that a question on the Adjournment was the appropriate way to raise the matter. He probably would have had an opportunity to raise it on today's Adjournment. If Members wish to obtain clarification on this matter, a motion on the Adjournment is the easiest and most appropriate way to do so. If that fails, I will seek to make time available for a debate. However, Senators should use the easier and more speedy devices available in this regard.
Senator Farrell raised the question of the national lottery. I also listened to the "Gay Byrne Show" this morning and I agree that perhaps there is a need for the national lottery to be more forthcoming with information on these matters.
Senator Mullooly raised the issue of Mountjoy Prison. Senator McAughtry raised the issue of a motorway being constructed through Leopardstown Racecourse. This is the first time that matter has been brought to my attention. I hope that Senator McAughtry's news does not have any basis in fact. Last week Senator Enright stated that the CPSU work to rule in the Houses had ended.
Senator Daly raised the issue of Forfás and a question raised in that regard by a commentator on an RTÉ radio programme this morning. I must inform the Senator that I was also surprised about the content of the question. I suggest that a telephone call to RTÉ by the Senator might have a speedy and desired effect. There is not doubt that it was a bizarre question.
Senator O'Toole raised the matter of a debate on special needs and I agree that this is an important issue. I must inform Senator Finneran that there will be a further, structured debate on health. The last debate on the health aspect of drug abuse was important and timely. It is my intention to ensure that such debates are conducted within a structured format.
I agree with the point raised by Senator Lee. Everyone is glad that the threat to the teaching of history, whether real or perceived, at second level has been removed.
Senator Lanigan raised a number of issues, particularly in relation to the abuse of charities. The Senator referred to a recent RTÉ television programme that dealt with the outrageous abuse of public trust by the Irish Children's Hospice Foundation. This plays on people's generosity in the most appalling way. There is a need to tighten the regulations in this area.
Senator McGennis raised a question which would be more appropriate to an Adjournment debate. If she does not obtain satisfaction in that regard, I will endeavour to provide time for a debate on the issue in the House. However, I request that she first attempt to raise the matter on the Adjournment of the House.
I remind Senator Enright that the question he raised will be the subject of a debate this afternoon. I have no intention of acceding to Senator Mulcahy's request, while I have every intention of acceding to that made by Senator Rory Kiely. I assure Senator Kiely that I will try to arrange a broader debate on agriculture before the end of session. Senator Roche also raised the matter of Forfás, with which I dealt earlier.
Has arrangement been made for a sos?
There will be a sos from 1.30 p.m. to 2 p.m.
Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.
I gave Senator McGowan a commitment that he could raise a point of order following the Order of Business and I call on him to do so now.
I attempted to raise a matter on yesterday's Order of Business. I respond completely to the appeal made by the Cathaoirleach and the Leader for orderly behaviour in the House. I have served this House for 28 years and have never disrupted its business. When I tried to raise an issue on the yesterday's Order of Business, however, Senator Sherlock proceeded to continually interrupt me. I was deprived of the opportunity to make my point as a result. I ask the liberty of the House to make that point now with clarity. I also request that there be no disruptions.
The House will not rehash yesterday's business. However, I will permit the Senator to make a brief point.
I will make the point briefly and with clarity. A number of students have asked me to raise in the House the issue of the collapse of the students summer jobs scheme. I have a copy of a letter received by a student which states:
I refer to your application——
In fairness, I informed the Senator yesterday that there were other ways to raise this issue. This fact was also brought to the Senator's attention by the Leader of the House when replying to matters raised on today's Order of Business. If he wishes to receive an accurate reply, I suggest that Senator McGowan raise this matter on the Adjournment of the House. I cannot adjudicate on remarks made by Members during the course of the political argument that occurred yesterday. I suggest that the Senator raise this matter on the Adjournment of the House and I will endeavour to have it taken as soon as possible.
With respect, Cathaoirleach, if I do so it will take weeks to resolve the issue. Students involved in third level education are concluding their examinations within the next week. I ask that the Leader invite the Minister of Social Welfare to the House to debate this issue which involves over 10,000 third level students.
I suggested a certain procedure to the Senator. I suggest that he give notice to raise this matter on the Adjournment of the House next week. I will do my utmost to facilitate him in that regard. I would now like to move on to the next item on the agenda.
I appreciate and accept the guidance and assistance of the Chair, even though it will result in a belated response to an immediate and urgent problem.
I have assured the Senator that I will attempt to facilitate him at the earliest opportunity.
I will conclude by requesting protection because yesterday I was deprived of the opportunity to make an important point to the Leader of the House.
I sincerely hope the Senator is not referring to the impartiality of the Chair. I have always attempted to be impartial with every Member of this House.
I referred to the disruptive behaviour of a colleague on the Government side of the House.
It is important that there be no reflection on the impartiality of the Chair. That point was left hanging and I ask that Senator McGowan reassure the House that the Chair is impartial in all matters.
I do not need to be prompted to inform the Chair of any matter. I am able to inform the Cathaoirleach about my feelings toward him.
That is all I wanted to hear.
I accept the Cathaoirleach's impartiality, but he was bulldozed by Members on the Government side of the House during yesterday's Order of Business.