Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Jun 1996

Vol. 148 No. 1

Order of Business.

Mr. Manning

Before I announce the Order of Business, I am sure Members will join with me in expressing total condemnation of the bomb attack in Manchester last Saturday. While it is probably no consolation to the people of Manchester or to Irish people living there who may find themselves subject to attack and abuse as result of what happened, it is important word goes out that all parties in this Parliament are united in their condemnation of that appalling and cowardly act which will doing nothing for peace, reconciliation or the cause of democracy.

Today's Order of Business is item 1, the Pensions Bill, 1995, and item 18, motion 34. The proposal is that item 1 be taken until 6 p.m. and after 8 p.m. to complete Second Stage and that Private Members' business be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.

Mr. Wright

On behalf of my party, I would like to express our condemnation of the violent act in Manchester last Saturday. But for the grace of God, there was no loss of life. I am sure I speak for thousands of parents who have had the good fortune to bring their children to Manchester to visit Maine Road or Old Trafford where we are well looked after.

I would like to ask the Leader about the business of the House over the next couple of weeks. When is it intended to bring the Transport (Dublin Light Rail) (No. 2) Bill, 1996, to the House? Is it the Leader's intention to deal with the Family Law (Divorce) Bill, 1996, before the summer recess? Given the amount of legislation on the order book at present, how often will the House sit and how does the Leader intend to complete some very necessary legislation?

Dr. Henry

We all condemn the bombing which had a devastating effect on the centre of Manchester and which could have serious repercussions for those of Irish origin who must work in the area. When members of the Government involved in the talks in Northern Ireland are asking for restraint and no violence on either side, they should also ask anyone who has influence over those in the Orange Order to ensure marches are conducted in as dignified a manner as possible.

Mr. Dardis

I join in the condemnation of what took place in Manchester at the weekend. It was an appalling incident by any standard. As Senator Wright said, but for the grace of God, nobody was killed. We extend our sympathy to those who were injured and their families. I was sickened to hear Mr. Adams being interviewed on British television on Saturday afternoon. He could not find it in his heart to condemn what had taken place; he expressed his regret which, I am afraid, is not enough. It must be stronger than that.

I asked on last week's Order of Business for time to have statements on Northern Ireland. While important sensitivities are involved and we do not wish to upset matters, as a result of what happened it would be appropriate to make time available either tomorrow or early next week to make statements on Northern Ireland and the peace process in general. There is one simple solution to this. Mr. Adams and his friends should call a permanent ceasefire. What we ask of the Orange Order and others can fall into line later but everything begins and ends from there. I am fed up with Sinn Féin getting concessions on the basis first of a ceasefire and then Canary Wharf. I hope it will not get any more concessions on the basis of what happened in Manchester.

There have been calls for a debate on tourism. We should note the fishkills in County Cork. That matter could be tied into that debate or by way of separate statements on agriculture. It is regrettable that the control of farmyard pollution scheme, which was successful in encouraging farmers to invest in pollution control measures, seems to have been suspended. Whatever funds are available should he directed towards assisting people who are prepared and want to implement pollution control measures.

On a lighter note, on the basis that an isosceles triangle has now acquired four extra degrees to what it had through recorded history, does the Government intend to reframe Einstein's special theory of relativity? Does it intend to use a truck from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry carrying examination papers to verify that theory?

Ms O'Sullivan

On behalf of the Labour Party I join with other Members in condemning the appalling bombing in Manchester. As Members said, it is only through good fortune that nobody was killed. However, there are major implications for those people who were seriously injured. They and their families must live with these appalling injuries; one woman needed 300 stitches in her face. While it was fortuitous that nobody was killed, we must remember the effects on those who were severely injured by the blast. I join with others in calling on the IRA to put in place a permanent ceasefire and on anybody with any influence to use it to achieve that goal. Every time we hear of an atrocity we hope it will be the last. We must redouble our efforts to ensure that this will be the case.

I join with Senator Wright in hoping that the divorce legislation will be introduced in the Dáil and Seanad as soon as possible.

Mr. Sherlock

On behalf of Democratic Left, I join in the condemnation of the Manchester bombing. It is surprising that a small number of people, who have incurred the wrath of the Irish and other peoples, can continue along this road. One would hope that those responsible for perpetrating such a crime will be apprehended.

Mr. Fitzgerald

I support Senator Dardis' call for a debate on the recent fishkills in County Cork. I totally condemn them out of hand. They seem to go on regardless of the laws we introduce. We should call on the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry to reinstate the control of pollution grants to their previous level. They are still available but they have been rescheduled. This means that people who were passed for grants in 1995 will not get them until 1997. That is delaying pollution control in farms. The Minister for Tourism and Trade or some body should put an advertisement on television and radio warning farmers of the damage they can do. One of the rivers in Cork will not recover from the damage that was done. It is a pity to see a great fishing river destroyed.

Mr. McGowan

I join with other speakers in condemning the bombing in Manchester and I do so in the knowledge that half the population of county Donegal live there. It was a dastardly act, one the House must unite to condemn. I sincerely hope that the peace initiative and the peace talks in the North succeed. There is no other hope. My county and the Border counties have suffered very serious deprivation in 25 years and the bombing in Manchester is the last act we can tolerate. We must send a united message that, regardless of our political views, we are 110 per cent united in condemning the act that was perpetrated against the people of Manchester.

Would the Leader bring the Minister of Education into the House and arrange a debate on the school transport problem? It is about time we called a stop to getting children out of bed at 6.30 each morning to attend school three hours later. That is not what we want. I am sure the Leader recognises there is a problem in rural Ireland that is not being tackled and that every time the issue comes up all we get is a cosmetic response. There is no positive approach adopted, no decision taken. Will the Leader bring the Minister for Education here to tell us if she has the money and if she has any intention of implementing a proper transport policy for primary schools? In my county there are pockets of Protestant population — 18 and 20 children——

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing the matter now, Senator.

Mr. McGowan

I am asking that for a debate so that we can tell those affected that we are going to provide a school transport system or that we are going to fail. We should tell them the truth.

Mr. McDonagh

Will the Leader ascertain from the Minister for Education the current situation regarding the proposed regional education boards? There is a lot of confusion, concern and interest about this at this time. Are they to come on stream? Clarification from the Minister for Education would be much appreciated by the many sectors involved in the education process. It would be appreciated by people involved in the world of education if the Minister for Education could outline at this stage what is the situation.

Mr. Mulcahy

I would like to reiterate the call I made last week to the Leader of the House concerning the need for the Minister for Tourism and Trade. Deputy Kenny, to come in here to have a debate on tourism. I am a little afraid that Dublin is getting almost too much of its share of tourism. We need more clarification on the national convention centre. There are various venues being suggested. We need a debate on tourism as soon as possible.

Miss Ormonde

Will the Minister for Education make a statement about the error that appeared in last week's leaving certificate higher mathematics paper? What arrangements will she make for those children who will be affected by this error? Will she make a statement to allay parents' fears?

Professor Lee

I unreservedly condemn the savagery and stupidity of the Manchester bombing, but I also want to support Senator Henry's observation concerning Orange marches. I see no reason a request that there be some dignity and restraint exercised there needs to be seen as a concession to the Manchester bombing in light of last year's events. That should be a matter of course. When is the proposed university legislation likely to be introduced?

Mr. Lanigan

Will the Minister for Education come into this House to clarify the Department's statement this morning that there will be fewer teachers in over 100 named schools, particularly in rural areas? The number of pupils will have risen in many of these schools by next September but the number of teachers will have dropped. Not alone is there a need for a debate. on that matter, but there is a need for a general debate on education before the summer recess and before decisions are made for the autumn school term.

Last week I asked about the convention of the House with regard to the use of speeches. Inadvertently, I might have insulted members of the Press Gallery but that was never my intention. I was raising a point about a convention which I thought was a rule and if that convention was reintroduced, there would have better debates in this House.

Mr. Daly

I support Senator Mulcahy's request for a debate on tourism: this is an important and opportune time for such a discussion. The Leader will be aware that a recent study indicated not the same development in the number of tourists visiting the west coast as those visiting the east coast and that there is a need to correct that imbalance.

I condemn outright the fish kills which have devastated the start of the salmon and trout fishing season. Their impact on people visiting Ireland is enormous and, apart from the damage to the fisheries, there has been damage to one of Ireland's major tourist attractions. Will the Leader impress upon the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry the desirability of expediting the control of farm pollution scheme? A number of applications are awaiting approval and farmers are willing to undertake the serious work that needs to be done. Incidentally, people other than farmers are responsible for some of the pollution incidents. A week ago the Minister of State made an appeal with regard to the damage to fisheries arising from pollution and it seems it is going unheard. Will the Leader impress on the Minister the need to get his officials to make a special effort to identify the source of the problem? Something serious should be done about this because if these conditions continue, more fish kills are likely and they will have a devastating effect on fisheries and tourism.

Mr. Farrell

Will the Leader inquire from the Department of Finance whether Mr. Conor Cruise-O'Brien accepts his ministerial pension for his time in Dáil Éireann, as he is now a United Kingdom Unionist? If so, is it the only thing Irish that he accepts?

An Cathaoirleach

That question does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Roche

The question may not arise but it is an intriguing one which has all of us wondering. Will the Leader organise a debate on the development of sport? Like the Leader, I am not one of the great sportsmen of the House but it strikes me that there is a need to dedicate some time to the development of sport, and particularly investment in sport. Three issues require attention at present in this regard. The first relates to the funding of swimming pools. There is destructive debate in my constituency on this issue and insufficient funds are being diverted into this area from the national lottery. The second issue is the relationship between sports development and tourism, and I will mention just two events: one is the equestrian championships at Punchestown, which have been on, off and back on again, and I welcome the fact that it seems to be back on; another is the possibility of the Tour de France starting in Ireland in 1998 to commemorate 200 years of true republicanism, a matter to which I want to alert the Minister of State.

I support other Senators in their concern about the higher mathematics paper in last week's leaving certificate examination. Many young people were wondering about the fact that there were 184 degrees in an isosceles triangle. The children who attempted to do that question should be compensated. The testing of examination questions needs to be looked at.

Mr. Sherlock

On a point of information, is it being implied that the fish kill in the River Martin was caused by the withholding of grants?

Mr. Daly

It is.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator has already spoken on the Order of Business and that is not a point of information.

Mr. Sherlock

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Mr. Manning

I thank Senator Sherlock for being my warm up man. Senator Wright asked a number of specific and general questions. Second Stage of the Transport (Dublin Light Rail) (No. 2) Bill, 1996, will be taken in this House on 2 July and I hope Committee Stage will be taken after that.

Mr. Fitzgerald

When will that be taken again in the Dáil?

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Manning, without interruption.

Mr. Manning

As Senator Fitzgerald knows, the Houses work independently of each other. We would not dream of telling it how to run its business, although it could probably learn something from this House.

Senator Wright asked about the divorce Bill. I understand it will be published shortly and that Second Stage will be taken in the Dáil before it rises. It will be discussed during the summer by the Select Committee on Legislation and Security and it will come before this House early in the next session.

Senator Wright also asked about the schedule of business we hope to complete between now and the end of the session. An Bord Bia (Amendment) Bill, 1996, will be completed next week. The Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Bill, 1996, will be introduced next week; it is currently in the Dáil. Second Stage of the Competition (Amendment) Bill, 1994, has been completed here. Because of the great interest shown by a number of Members in the Adelaide Hospital Bill, the Government has agreed to introduce it in this House on Friday, 28 June. The tourism motion will also be taken. The Metrology Bill, 1996, is currently in the Dáil but it will come here after that. The Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Bill, 1996, will also be taken here. The Financial Services (Borrowing Powers of Certain Bodies) Bill will be taken here.

Mr. Dardis

We give up; we will have a guillotine.

Mr. Manning

The Civil Liability Bill is a Seanad Bill and will be introduced here. I hope the House will rise not later than 12 July.

Senator Henry mentioned restraint at Orange parades, which would be helpful in the coming months. I am sure that message will be sent to everyone. Senator Dardis asked if we should have statements on Northern Ireland. We probably should have a debate because important things need to be said and certain questions must be answered. Most people here doubt Sinn Féin's credibility in terms of what it says and its bona fides. There is also a desire to rise above the difficulties and to continue the peace process. I will try to organise a debate in the near future.

A number of Senators mentioned the farmyard pollution scheme. That matter could be raised on the Adjournment. However, if Senators want a longer debate, we could arrange to discuss it with the fish kills, which were raised by Senator Fitzgerald.

School transport is a specific issue and it would be more appropriate to raise it on the Adjournment, at least in the first instance, given the level of work we have to do between now and the end of the session. If Senator McDonagh repeats his question tomorrow morning I will have information for him on the regional education boards legislation. I said there will be a debate on tourism as well between now and the end of the session.

As regards the question raised by Senator Ormonde and others and the 184 degrees isosceles triangle, I can only speculate that it was a warm day; the triangle probably expanded with the heat. The Minister gave a very full reply last night on the Adjournment in the other House and in light of further information it would be useful to pursue it in that way in this House. Perhaps there could be an Adjournment debate on that as soon as possible.

Senator Lee raised the question of university legislation. My understanding is that the legislation will be published either at the end of this month or early next month and will be taken early next session. I am endeavouring to have it published as Seanad legislation but I do not have a guarantee on that yet. Senator Farrell was on very dangerous ground. Is he saying that because a person is a unionist he is less than fully Irish or that he should be penalised in some way? His intervention was not particularly helpful. It also raises issues which it might not be wise in the current climate to discuss too deeply. His comments were very far from the Wolfe Tone concept of Irishmen embracing all political views. Senator Roche raised the question of a debate on sports and I am open to that.

Order of Business agreed to.