Today's Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 27, motion 27. Item 1, Local Government (Planning and Development) Bill, 1998, is a Seanad Bill returning from the Dáil with amendments, Report and Final Stages to be taken today; item 2, motion on the Amsterdam Treaty, contributions of each Senator not to exceed ten minutes and the Minister being called to reply not later than 12.50 p.m.; business shall be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.; item 3, statements on the role of county councils, contributions of each Senator not to exceed eight minutes and to conclude not later than 4 p.m.; item 4, statements on the report of the Ombudsman on lost pension arrears, contributions of each Senator not to exceed ten minutes and item 27, motion 27, to be taken at 6 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. I wonder whether the Leader is too extreme in regard to time. If the number of speakers is not huge, perhaps there could be some flexibility. I have no great problem with it. On the Order of Business what are his intentions—
Mr. Ryan
His intentions are honourable.
—his intentions are always honourable – in regard to item 6 on today's Order Paper, the Copyright and Related Rights Bill, 1999, between now and the end of the session? Given the amount of other business which the Leader has indicated he wishes the House to take, it strikes me that it would be foolish to bring this Bill to a conclusion between now and the end of the session, especially since the very detailed and good debate last week indicated there are many sections which need teasing out. There would be general agreement in the House that this Bill should be given as much time as it takes to ensure the Seanad does its job properly. Will the Leader update the House between now and the end of session on the progress on the millennium project in this House – the new parliamentary building beside us – and when the building is expected to be completed?
I wish to draw the attention of the House to a very radical statement from the conference of heads of Irish universities on the developments and needs in third level over the coming years. There was a strong emphasis on increasing the numbers attending third level education, improving access to those from deprived backgrounds and the need to develop a stronger than ever post-graduate sector. Apart from the importance of the document, it is contrary to many of the recommendations made in the recent ESRI report. Perhaps the Leader could ensure Members are given copies of the two reports to enable the House debate one of the most important areas in education early in the next session.
Will the Leader draw the following to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform? Yesterday Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, one of the commissioners in the search for the disappeared, made a statement in Northern Ireland that, when it came to specialised scanning equipment, all the Irish Government had to do was request it. That suggests there is specialised scanning equipment we are not using. I do not believe that is so and, if it is not, let us make sure that statement is corrected by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It would be horrific if we were not using whatever aid is available to search for these bodies and relieve the families involved of the trauma they are enduring. I am sure we are using all the resources available and I hope the statement amounts to a misunderstanding of the position.
I agree with Senator Manning's remarks on the Copyright and Related Rights Bill, 1998. It is a very big Bill. We debated it for some time last week but only dipped into it. I hope we will not try to rush it through in a way that does not give it full attention.
The British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, had a problem yesterday with a bus lane. He was stuck in traffic and his drivers were so annoyed that, as an adjacent bus lane was empty, they eventually left the line of traffic and used it. Legally they were able to do so because they were police. The frustration in Ireland is that there still appears to be insufficient numbers of buses using bus lanes and I ask the Leader to draw the attention of the Minister for Public Enterprise to the fact that these lanes are still empty. There are other solutions in Dublin. One is to allow hackneys as well as taxis to use the bus lanes. If Prime Minister Blair was frustrated by the traffic delays, so are many Irish motorists.
I agree with Senator Quinn's remarks on the bus lanes. There is need for immediate action.
Will the Leader confirm that item 3 also extends to other sectors of local authorities, especially the county boroughs? I presume he does not wish to exclude debate on the county boroughs of Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and so on, otherwise the debate will be rural based.
I compliment the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment for at last announcing the introduction of the minimum wage. Unfortunately, the measure is rather tardy and will not be implemented until next April. The rate per hour will be £4.40, which is considerably less than the hourly rate of £5 sought by ICTU and the trade union movement.
IBEC and the Small Firms Association are hypocritical on this issue. They have constantly criticised the unemployed on the basis that they were not seeking work and they called on the State to reduce social welfare payments to increase the gap between wages and welfare. However, when the State proposes to increase the income of over 100,000 people with the introduction of the minimum wage they are also critical. They cannot be pleased. They should face up to this issue and recognise that everybody requires reasonable remuneration for a reasonable day's work.
The Taoiseach has said that public sector pay is posing a problem in terms of recruitment to the public sector. Will the Leader indicate the Government's intentions regarding lowly paid clerks and secretaries? They are applying for jobs in the public sector but are refusing to take them up because the pay is inadequate. A major initiative is required here.
What progress has taken place regarding the Oireachtas millennium project? Will the Leader ask the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Séamus Brennan, to attend the House so that we can consider all of the planned millennium projects?
We also need to ascertain what the Government proposes to do with Farmleigh Estate and House, which it has just purchased. The only proposal I have heard to date is that it be used as a residence for visiting dignitaries. It is far too important and spacious an estate for that. We should be able to make proposals in the context of a millennium project on behalf of the people of the country and the city of Dublin.
I join with Senator Costello in welcoming the announcement of the minimum wage by the Tánaiste and Minster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I agree it is pitched at a relatively modest level of £4.40 per hour but the effect of this will be to encourage people into employment and to further reduce the unemployment rate, which has been going in the right direction for some time.
Yesterday, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine considered a report by Professor Sheedy and Dr. O'Connor on the future of agriculture and how it will adjust to Agenda 2000. The report predicts another substantial fall in the numbers employed in agriculture, which will have a knock-on effect on the wider economy.
I am not a member of the committee, which brings me to a point I have made previously. I do not know what stage the joint committe is at in its consideration of the report, but reports of this kind should be circulated to all Members. There are major inconsistencies between Departments in this regard. The Minister for Public Enterprise ensures that virtually all reports emanating from her Department are circulated to Members of both Houses. This should be used as a model. I ask that this matter be taken up, either by the Leader or the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, to ensure that we see the report in question and that time be made available to debate this matter. While we applaud the success of the Minister for Agriculture and Food with regard to Agenda 2000, the next stage in this process is the World Trade Agreement, which is another hurdle to be crossed. We should consider our input to the Irish position on that.
On Senator Quinn's point about the bus lanes, if the British Prime Minster had resorted to the Dublin bus lanes, because so many cars are parked on them, he might not have been able to make the progress he would have desired.
I urge the Leader to arrange an early and comprehensive debate on the media, their privileges and responsibilities. I do this in the light of the many stories which are circulated and are subsequently found to have no substance. In recent days a newspaper reported that President McAleese was about to adopt a child from a foreign country. A spokesperson for the President said this morning that this report had no foundation. Two young children had been hosted at Áras an Uactharán for the weekend.
It behoves all who support a free and respon sible press to demand the same high standards from anybody who enjoys privileges and exercises responsibilities. The wild cat sections of the media harm the whole media. We need a council that will monitor these matters and will also have the power to recommend sanctions.
Last week I raised the issue of delays in Oireachtas mail but, unfortunately, the Leader did not hear me. I raise the issue again today and I ask him to ascertain from An Post if something could be done about the matter. Do other Senators face similar difficulties? When I raised this issue, I was told that the only way I could be sure the letters would be delivered would be to take them to the Dublin sorting office at Knocklyon, which involves a long journey. Having done that the mail went overnight but having posted it on Thursday it still did not arrive on the Friday or the Monday. I do not know whether the problem is in Dublin or Limerick but the delivery of mail is certainly consistently late.
I support Senator Quinn's remarks on bus lanes. We should follow the American example where any car with four or more passengers can also use bus lanes and that would help enormously with the free flow of traffic.
I refer to the recent annual report of the IDA, a copy of which Senators received, and, in particular, to its intended change in policy over the coming years. Its current policy concentrates on job creation along the east coast but it intends to have greater regional job distribution, which is something my colleagues and I from the Border counties have sought in past years. Will the Leader urge the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to ensure that the policy of the IDA is understood and that there is an equal distribution of jobs in the west, the Border counties and throughout the country? Unfortunately, to date, the IDA has totally neglected Counties Cavan and Monaghan.
I support Senator Manning's recommendation regarding the further passage of the Copyright and Related Rights Bill. Last week, it was examined in detail for four hours. It is a large Bill and we have advanced to consideration of section 23. As the Minister of State has promised detailed examination and advices are awaited from the Attorney General's office, it would be wise not to resume Committee Stage in advance of their receipt.
Mr. Ryan
Most of what of what I would have said on the Copyright and Related Rights Bill has been said, except that if the Minister of State's approach was to respond to the legitimate concerns of Members about inadequacies in it rather than one which temporised, postponed, delayed and then agreed to consider the most minuscule amendments before Report Stage, we would have made much more progress. It was very frustrating to spend a long time with a Minister of State who seemed reluctant to take on board any suggestions. It contrasted forcefully with the performance of the Minister for Education and Science on equally complex legislation. He was prepared to listen and share in the discussion.
The way to speed up the passage of legislation through the House is for a Minister to be prepared, and I presume authorised, to take on board constructive suggestions from all sides of the House. The alternative would be to establish a select committee of the House to consider the Bill properly in Committee rather than take up the time of the House.
I take issue with Senator Ó Murchú regarding the press, although it is not my normal instinct to defend it. The press has rights, not privileges; privileges can be taken away. We cannot and do not ever wish to take away the rights of the press and that is extremely important.
I wish to raise a with you, a Chathaoirligh, and the House an extremely serious issue. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs recently met a delegation from the Chinese Parliament in private at its insistence. It is a dangerous precedent to set where a parliamentary delegation from another country is able to insist on meeting in private when there are valid questions to be asked it about its performance vis-à-vis Tibet and human rights in this case. Any unpleasant country that we do not like which sends a delegation here will be able to escape the scrutiny of the Irish media by demanding that it meet in private because of the precedent that has been established. It is a serious issue and one about which the Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas should record their dissent vigorously so that it never happens again.
I have absolutely no objection to the purchase of Farmleigh House and I am delighted that it was made. Since the Government has plenty of money, some of which was spent correctly and appropriately on the purchase of this property, voluntary organisations which scramble to carry out simple activities, such as buying a cooker for Meals on Wheels or replacing antiquated equipment for similar services, can at least expect to be saved the nuisance of having to spend the next 12 months fund raising to buy electric cookers.
Apropos the remarks by Senators Ó Murchú and Ryan, there is absolutely no doubt that the press has rights and nobody wants to take them away, but along with rights go responsibilities. If there are instances where rights and responsibilities do not coincide, it is quite proper to bring them to the attention of the House and the public.
The flotation of Telecom Éireann will take place next week and there have been indications that other State entities will be privatised. One of the main winners in these cases will be the chief executives who drive such privatisations. An inor- dinate amount of money will be gained by those who negotiate them. The public and the country may gain, but there is no doubt that in a flotation of State assets, the chief executives and board members will get inordinate amounts of money. If there are privatisations of public enterprises in future, the chief executives should be excluded from the huge windfall gains which they receive currently.
An increasing number of people, particularly young males, commit suicide and it is an escalating problem. The group Aware is working extremely hard on this issue along with many other groups. I call, as Senator Glynn and others have in the past, for a debate to see how this major problem might be addressed in a sympathetic manner by the House. Unfortunately, we have all seen the effect suicide has had on families and friends and there does not seem to be an end to it.
Will the Leader arrange a debate on equality of access for visually disabled people? I took your advice, a Chathaoirligh, 18 months ago and wrote to CIE about the lack of a verbal station by station announcement on DART lines. I was told that there was a human resources problem. If that is the case, then we would want to get our priorities right. Such an arrangement is still not in place and we are still in the dark ages with regard to visually impaired people, who must count the stations as they go by from their point of origin to their destination. Given the efforts that have been made to provide buses which can be accessed by the disabled, this is surely a matter that requires an urgent remedy. I am sure the Leader will bring this to the Minister's attention.
I strongly support Senator Ó Murchú's remarks. Along with Senator Ryan, I appreciate that the press has rights, but it also has obligations. On the occasion in question the newspaper involved disregarded its obligations and the sooner we have a proper press council the better. This case is a glaring example of the need for one.
I recently called for a debate on the Noxious Weeds Act and its non-application; it has been totally disregarded. I receive complaints every day from constituents that it is not being enforced. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on it because Ireland is a tourism destination and beauty spots should be protected by the appropriate application of the Act.
Other Members mentioned traffic in Dublin. I make a distinction between bus lanes and bus corridors. Two bus corridors are in operation at present and a third from Stillorgan to the city has been completed. These corridors cost £1 million each to implement and the traffic department of Dublin Corporation will not put the third corridor into operation until it receives a guarantee from Dublin Bus of an extra 20 buses for it. There is a grave responsibility on the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, to make buses available to Dublin Bus for the bus corridors.
I support Senator Dardis's call regarding the report released yesterday by the Oireachtas Joint Committee which was drafted by Professor Sheedy and Dr. O'Connor. This report was confidential until last night and it will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. I agree with Senator Dardis that the House should debate it because some of its conclusions are controversial. It requires detailed debate.
I also support Senator Leonard's comments. The two matters are linked. As the report shows, bringing industry to rural Ireland is now seen as the only way to keep rural areas alive and populated. If there is not a spread of industry to rural Ireland, that will not be achieved. I am combining the two issues because the reports deal with part-time farming, agriculture based industries and keeping people in rural Ireland. I support the calls by both Senators.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate to allow the House address a public controversy which is about to arise regarding the role of the Central Bank. Its role is about to be changed dramatically, if it is not completely emasculated as an institution. I do not wish to express a view on the matter because I am aware that is not the purpose of the Order of Business. However, I ask the Leader to arrange, at least, a debate on the issue but perhaps, more constructively, he could use the device available to the House where visitors are invited to address it. Perhaps he could ask the Governor of the Central Bank to come to the Seanad to answer questions on the role played by the bank in the past and what role it should play in the future.
I do not suggest it should be an inquisitorial debate but this major issue could be rushed through by Government. It is dangerous to change the role of a regulator without a great deal of thought. It means much to the confidence of foreign investors in Ireland if such a change is to be made. Perhaps the Leader could ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges if the Governor could be invited to enlighten the House on the past and future role of the Central Bank.
In response to the points raised by Senators Manning, Quinn, Coghlan and Ryan regarding the Copyright and Related Rights Bill, the Committee Stage debate will continue all day next Tuesday. I have also left most of Wednesday aside to see what progress can be made on this large Bill. The position will then be reviewed in terms of when the remaining Stages will be taken.
Senator Manning and Senator Costello sought an update on the millennium project at Leinster House, the new building. I will come back to the House on this matter on the Order of Business tomorrow. I understand the project is on target and even a little ahead of the works programme agreed last year with the Joint Committees. The building is on target to open in the autumn next year.
Senator Quinn and Senator Joe Doyle expressed their concerns about the bus lanes. Senator Quinn said there are not enough buses to keep the lanes open. I understand the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, is seeking funds from the Government for an additional 150 buses, which is welcome. Senator Joe Doyle is the outgoing Lord Mayor of the city of Dublin and he played a major role during his term in the efforts to deal with the traffic problems. His experience and knowledge of what is happening with regard to Dublin traffic was evident in his contribution. He also called for additional buses, which is the solution to the problem. I take Senator Quinn's point that taxis and hackneys should be allowed to use the bus lanes. However, most of them are using them at present, which is welcome.
Following Senator Quinn's inquiry regarding Sir Kenneth Bloomfield's alleged statement yesterday, I am informed that the special equipment necessary for this work is available and is being used by the Garda. The House will be pleased to know that.
Senator Costello and Senator Dardis mentioned No. 3. The debate this afternoon will include councillors who are members of borough councils, town commissioners, county councils, corporations and others. I do not understand why Members do not make more positive inquiries on the Order of Business. They are constantly negative and Members should know by now that I am positive, particularly regarding the Seanad's electorate.
We should stand in the corner.
We are committed to our electorate's concerns and we will do everything possible to enhance the membership and powers of local authorities. This is why the debate is being held so soon after the local elections of a fortnight ago. I look forward to many Senators making contributions to the debate. The Government side is currently offering 11 speakers and I intend to provide more time next week if not enough time is available today. All Members who wish to contribute, including Senators on the Government side who put pressure on me through Senator Ormonde to arrange this debate, will have an opportunity to do so.
Senator Costello and Senator Dardis welcomed the announcement regarding the minimum wage of £4.40 an hour by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney. I wish to be associated with their comments and I will pass on their wishes to the Tánaiste.
Senators Dardis, Ó Murchú, Lanigan and Glynn repeated the point raised yesterday about the media, its privileges, rights and responsibilities and the call for a council to monitor the press. I will make time available for this issue and I look forward to contributions to such a debate from all the Senators who raised the matter on the Order of Business. I will treat this as an urgent matter and seek to make time available at the earliest possible opportunity.
Senator Jackman raised an issue last week but, unfortunately, the volume from her microphone was too low on this side of the House and I apologise to the Senator. I understand Oireachtas post has a 24 hour guaranteed delivery in 90 per cent of the country. If Senator Jackman is saying that Oireachtas post is taking three days to reach Limerick, it is unacceptable and I will make an official complaint about it after the Order of Business. I will quote the experience of the Senator who, I understand from her contribution, has raised this matter on many occasions. It is not an isolated incident; it is happening regularly. It is not acceptable, although I do not have that experience with regard to the midlands.
Senator Leonard and Senator Callanan raised the IDA's annual report and said all areas should get their fair share of investment and opportunities. I will pass on the Senators views to the Minister. This issue was never more relevant in the counties of Cavan and Monaghan which I know well. These areas in the Border region need urgent investment and I agree with the points raised by Senator Leonard.
I will pass on to the Minister Senator Ryan's views about the delegation from China which asked to be met in private. Senator Lanigan and Senator Glynn called for a debate on the escalating problem of suicide and I will leave time aside for this. Senator Ridge called for a debate on access for disabled persons to train and bus transport. I agree with her and I will put time aside for a debate. I will also pass on her views. Senator Kett made the same point last week and I think all Senators share their concerns.
It was in connection with the announcement system on trains.
I will pass to the Minister Senator Glynn's views on noxious weeds. Local authorities share some of the blame in that regard. Senator Callanan called for a debate on the report presented to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine and I can arrange for that.
Senator Ross asked for the Governor of the Central Bank to attend the Seanad to make a statement and answer questions. This is a matter for Committee on Procedure and Privileges and for the Department of Finance. If the Senator wishes to pursue it he can make a request to you, a Chathaoirligh, as the chairman of Committee on Procedure and Privileges, to see how we can progress the matter.