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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Oct 2000

Vol. 164 No. 2

Adjournment Matters. - General Register Office.

I am surprised that this issue is the responsibility of the Minister for Health and Children. I would have thought that it was more appropriate to the Department of Finance. The Minister of State will be, therefore, very well equipped to respond.

This issue has been brought to my attention by a professional genealogical organisation, Eneclann. It is a long running sore which has been the subject of a strong lobby for some time by the council of Irish genealogical organisations. It relates to the appalling state of the General Register Office for births, deaths and marriages in Dublin. I cannot believe that this has been allowed to continue when there are two very good reasons the condition of this office should be improved urgently.

The site is reminiscent of the Passport Office on Molesworth Street in the past with people queuing in all weathers on Westland Row to obtain certificates of births, marriages and deaths. Apparently, the Civil Service and the Government are cavalier about these physical difficulties. What is much worse, however, in terms of the overall economy is that genealogy is a growing industry which is being hampered by the fact that this office is a shambles. It is not an exaggeration to say that. Throughout the world genealogy is a fast growing industry. The expansion of the Internet has meant that the Irish diaspora wish to trace their ancestry. There are many young people, including Eneclann, a young company, who wish to develop this industry in Ireland through the Internet and modern technology, which is ideal, but cannot do so because this office is a shambles.

That is the main reason I bring this issue to the attention of the Minister of State. I know what he will say, but I hope he will give me more comfort than he gave Senator Taylor-Quinn. He will say that they are in the process of computerising this office and that it is understaffed, but that is not good enough. We should see a concrete timetable accompanied by guarantees for when supply will meet demand.

The Minister of State is aware of the length of the queues and difficulties people have to face. He is also aware of the extremely clumsy conditions in the public research room where it costs £1.50 to obtain a printout of an entry contained in the index for any five year period. He is further aware that there is a need to modernise the office to provide up-to-date library technology. This is a false economy as it takes a long time to collect £1.50 from everybody. The office is satisfying the demand to some extent by working overtime at weekends. There is a need for training and larger offices with up-to-date techniques to ensure demand is satisfied immediately.

A service such as this has real potential in the economy. There are over 40 million Irish people in the United States from where there is a demand for the export of this information. They are frustrated. The Minister of State and I have seen many US tourists queuing at this office looking for details of their ancestry dating back to 1864 and sometimes, having queued all day, they are unable to obtain the information that they need. If the distribution of information from this office could be speeded up, the entrepreneurs who are trying to operate a business with the information from this office would be able to supply it worldwide through the Internet, in particular to the Irish diaspora, the emigrants who left our shores and who often cannot return and for whom in the past crocodile tears were shed. That is not as true now as it was then, but a great deal of lip-service is paid to Irish emigrants in this and the other House. The best way to rectify this is by satisfying their demands through communications. This can be done simply by increasing the distribution of information from this office.

I am aware a project has been under way for some time to computerise the General Register Office, but it seems to be way behind and is not providing the efficiencies necessary. What is needed is an acceleration of the project. This makes economic sense. This is not a subsidy. If the money was spent and the necessary staff provided, people would be prepared to pay money to receive this information quickly. Genealogy is a vast worldwide industry and Ireland is in a position to exploit it because of the huge numbers of our people overseas. We are wasting a great opportunity by neglecting this extremely valuable resource.

I thought I gave a detailed answer to Senator Taylor-Quinn to whom I indicated that we would have decisions by the end of the year. I hope I will be able to satisfy Senator Ross. I agree with much of what he said. It was eminently sensible. I am sure the Minister for Health and Children also agrees that this is an important matter.

The administration of the registration system is a matter for An tÁrd-Chláraitheoir, Registrar–

General of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and local registrars who operate under his general direction. The Registration of Births and Deaths Acts, 1863 to 1996, and the Marriages Acts, 1844 and 1863, provide that An tÁrd-Chláraitheoir shall retain certified copies of the records of births, deaths and marriages returned to him on a quarterly basis by local registrars and that he shall compile and make available an index to such records at his office. Persons are entitled, under statute, to search these indexes on the payment of the approved fees and obtain certified copies of entries identified from the index.

As the Senator may be aware, a joint programme of work aimed at modernising the civil registration service is being undertaken by the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs and the Department of Health and Children which will involve the review of the entire registration system, including registration law, and the structure of registration nationally to identify the changes necessary to capitalise on the use of modern technology to capture registration information in an electronic format at the point of registration in a modern, efficient and legally adequate system. It is the intention that the system will incorporate a link to all life events associated with each person. The objective is to implement a modern, efficient and effective system geared to the needs of the 21st century. Funding of £7.3 million for the modernisation programme was approved in 1999.

The Senator may also be aware of the steps being taken to maintain and improve indexes to the records of births, deaths and marriages, including the special project for the capture of the records of births, deaths and marriages and associated indexes in an electronic format which has been ongoing in Roscommon for some time. When this archival records project is completed, it will improve the efficiency, flexibility, access and management of the records and associated indexes and will provide potential for the development of a range of services which would not be possible in a system reliant on printed indexes.

The Minister of State's reply is totally unsatisfactory. I knew everything that was in it. It contains no new information. I anticipated it. When will this service be available? When will the backlog be cleared? When will people be able to access this information without long delays? What is holding it up? That is all I want to know. There is nothing in the reply that indicates what is holding it up. This Civil Service brief is a joke. They have even got the House wrong. They refer to the Senator as a Deputy.

As the Senator is probably aware, I changed the script I was given.

I thank the Minister of State for that.

I recognised the Senator's position. It is incorrect.

It is incorrect. It is an insult.

I changed it.

I am aware of that and thank the Minister of State. It shows the cavalier way in which the Civil Service treats questions.

As I am not the Minister of State responsible in the Department of Health and Children, I do not have that information.

Will the Minister of State obtain it for me?

I will convey what the Senator said and try to have the information forwarded to him from the Department of Health and Children.

On a very important point of order, while I accept the Minister of State's reply, it indicates the absurdity of sending a Minister to this House to reply to a question to which he says he is not qualified to reply. If that is the case, we should not have Ministers answering for Departments for which they are not responsible.

I did not say that I was not qualified to reply. What I said was that I did not have the information.

That is because the Minister of State is from another Department.

The Seanad adjourned at 4.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 18 October 2000.

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