The Order of Business today is No. 1, motion re referral of the International Convention on Oil Pollution Preparedness, Response and Co-Operation, 1990, to the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, to be taken without debate; No. 2, motion re referral of protocol to the Convention on the Prevention of Marine Pollution by Dumping of Wastes and Other Matter, 1972, to the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, to be taken without debate; No. 3, motion re the fourth protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam regarding refugee status, to be taken without debate; No. 4, motion re referral of the Irish Takeover Panel Act, 1997 (Relevant Company) Regulations, 2001, to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, to be taken without debate; No. 5, Aviation Regulation Bill, 2000 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] – Report and Final Stages; No. 6, Agriculture Appeals Bill, 2001 – Second Stage (resumed); No. 23 motion no. 31 to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. and the afternoon's business to be resumed thereafter, if not previously concluded. Business to conclude at 10 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. I wish to raise two issues on the Order of Business. The extraordinary continuing carnage on our roads is an issue of concern. While no Government can legislate against stupidity, recklessness or criminality, there are a great number of things that should be done. There is the scandal of the huge number of untested provisional drivers on the road and there is the continual digging up of streets throughout all of our towns and cities, both of which present a traffic hazard. Will the Leader arrange a full debate and invite the Minister in to account for his stewardship?
Does the Leader know what is happening in what were previously called our semi-State companies? The chief executive officer of the ESB is, apparently, facing a coup designed to remove him. Does anyone know what is happening? The chief executive of CIE leaves behind him an agenda of chaos and incompetence, while he departs with £500,000 in his back pocket. The more we look at CIE the more things seem to be going from bad to worse, with no political control or direction. It is important that we have a full debate as early as possible on developments in the areas of public enterprise.
Will the Leader indicate on the local government Bill if there is truth in the rumour in this House that the four independent TDs are about to withdraw support from the Government unless the dual mandate at local level is restored? I think it is a very good idea. Perhaps the Leader could indicate whether he knows anything about that.
The House should note that since we debated the matter last week there are two European countries, Holland and Spain, whose inflation rate has gone above that of Ireland. As Commissioner Solbes intends to visit Ireland next month, I ask the Leader to arrange for him to debate with interested Members in this Chamber his fiscal and economic policies proposed for June 2001. He should be given a formal invitation to debate this, not to address this House. He could well do with hearing our views as well as those of other groups he will be meeting. The possible referendum on the Nice treaty is another issue he could deal with. It is important that he be exposed to the views of the Irish public and meet their representatives.
On an unrelated matter, a Chathaoirligh, since I was elected to this House I have consistently raised matters in this House concerning the Irish waterways. There is a disturbing report in today's newspapers about the proposed Kildare by-pass as it affects Pollardstown Fen. This has been a concern of the Inland Waterways Association of Ireland for many years. If the Government wishes to raise some of the issues involved, including the proposal to lower the level of the road below the water table, I will be happy to debate the matter in the House. The Government is taking an action which will have a negative environmental impact and possibly affect leisure facilities in that area. It is a feeder waterway into the broader waterways. Will the Minister give reassurances to the House that no irreparable damage is being done?
Last week we asked the Leader about a debate on Northern Ireland and how we can keep a continuing view on that.
I support the Order of Business except for No. 3. I ask for clarification from the Leader of the House. My understanding is that No. 3 was debated in this House last week and it was then referred to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, but here it is again on the agenda, to be referred a further time—
The Senator is quite correct. This matter was discussed in the House last week and it was referred to the joint committee. It is now back so that the House can ratify the substantive motion.
It was certainly a very short discussion. I have mentioned before the large number of motions on the Order Paper that are being referred to committees. There are four before us today. This House should receive some indication of the outcome of these referrals. It is amazing that the matter can be referred one week and finalised the next. It seems it has been rubber stamped.
This House has no control over the length of time a joint committee spends in discussion on any matter.
But we have control over what we pass in the House and how we pass it. There is a question mark over the manner in which this was processed and I am asking the Leader of the House for some clarification on the outcome of the deliberations in that matter.
I concur with Senator Manning in relation to fatalities on the roads. The carnage is very alarming. It seems that the Minister for the Envir onment and Local Government is not providing the Garda Síochána traffic corps with the resources properly to regulate traffic and drink driving. The number of motorists holding provisional licences is growing. There are at present 350,000 in the State. Will the Leader of the House ask the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to explain this to the House? This is a record increase in road accident fatalities and it is a record nobody wants. It is time we were told why the resources are not available to control the number of fatalities.
I agree with Senator O'Toole that Commissioner Solbes should be invited to speak to the House. The Minister for Finance should also be invited. I am alarmed at the rate of spending and the manner in which credit card companies are charging exorbitant interest rates of between 18% to 25%. I am concerned that there is no statutory regulation on the upper limits of credit available to credit card holders. There is no statutory regulation of upper limits regarding how far into debt a card owner can go. The Central Bank has issued a warning to companies, but such a warning has no statutory basis. The operation of credit card companies, including interest rates, the criteria for lending and so on, should be the subject of a debate here. It is central to our economic agenda. I hope the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, will come to the House to deal with the matter and that we will hear from Commissioner Solbes on the wider issue.
I ask the Leader of the House to request the Tánaiste to come here in the near future to discuss the skills shortage. We should have a debate on work permits and visas, and especially the integration of non-nationals into our workplaces, communities and schools. This House can assist the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment in formulating strategies to deal with these issues.
I raise the matter of accident and emergency departments in our hospitals, particularly Cork University Hospital. There is an average of 25 patients in the department full time over a 48-hour period – there were 31 there yesterday. That is equal to half a mile of patients, were they stretched along the hospital corridor. This is an ongoing problem, and nurses telephone us to say they cannot handle it. This is a matter of urgency as no beds are available. What is happening in our hospitals? Wards are closed at weekends and there is no consultant service in the evenings. Patients who cannot get beds in wards have to stay in accident and emergency departments. This is a very serious problem, especially considering that £6 billion has been spent in this area. I ask the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, to come before this House to explain what is happening.
I agree with Senators Manning and Costello as regards the dreadful carnage on our roads. Most of us have experienced heart-rending scenes of families who have lost loved ones. Many young people's lives are snuffed out in this way. We have an epidemic on our hands. It is an emergency and I ask the Leader to initiate a debate, not only here but with other organisations. This situation cannot be allowed to continue.
I support Senator Cregan's call for a debate on accident and emergency services. Patients are spending three or four days in many accident and emergency departments waiting for admission to wards.
I ask the Minister for Health and Children to come to this House to debate the public health aspects of the BSE disaster. This might help to reassure consumers and it could also help the beef trade.
I previously requested the Leader to ask the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to discuss the 1999 report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals. I ask that the report for 2000 be published before Easter so that both reports can be debated together. It would avoid continuallly having to raise this matter with the Leader during the coming year.
I join Senator Manning and others in calling on the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to come to the House for a constructive discussion on how best to reduce the carnage on our roads. At a recent public meeting, about 200 young drivers lobbied for a decrease in the current exorbitant insurance costs. Those sensible young people made specific points which we could put to the Minister. Allied to debating road deaths, we should consider the exorbitant cost of insurance premiums for young male drivers.
I support Senator O'Toole's invitation to Mr. Solbes. The Senator's call should be taken very seriously. It is extraordinary that one of the most divisive and important issues in recent years which culminated in a debate in Brussels on Monday is not being debated in this House. I would like to go one step further. If the Minister for Finance came to this House, and I would be one of those who support his stance, it would also be appropriate not just that we should have Mr. Solbes but also that we should send an invitation to the President of the European Commission, Mr. Prodi. He could enlighten us on the state of the Italian economy which is interesting in that there are two economies there. There is the European-type economy regulated from Europe and by the Italian government, and there is the black economy not subject to any regulations, European, national or otherwise. I think we ought to ask Mr. Prodi to explain to us how to run a black economy—
If you would bear with me for one moment, Senator Ross. If Members have suggestions on individuals they would like to see invited to address the House, they should make those suggestions to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I am doing so now.
The committee will consider such proposals and will make a decision. This has been the procedure and will continue. It is not in order for Members to take the floor of the Chamber and suggest willy-nilly that A, B, or C should be invited.
I take your point, a Chathaoirligh, and I apologise for being out of order, but I have found in many years in this House that it tends to be more successful if one does things in the open rather than behind closed doors. The Leader could do one thing. If he does not invite Mr. Prodi, perhaps he could invite the Minister so that we have a serious debate on this issue. There are different views among the Opposition and there has not been a debate on this, the most important national issue for many years.
As one of those who proposed that particular rule, I did not ask that Mr. Solbes come to address the House. I asked that he come and meet the Members of the House in this Chamber and that was what Senator Ross supported. We were not out of order.
Thank you for the clarification.
I support the call for a debate on the horrific car accidents that have taken place in recent weeks and months. This Chamber should be used to further the debate on why this is happening, to look again at the causes and to see if there is any way forward.
The recent report by the ESRI emphasised the shortage of workers, yet local employers are not accepting suitable young people, aged 15-plus, who did not get as far as the leaving certificate. They would be very good workers, yet they have been turned down. The Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, will be coming here under other auspices and perhaps that will be an opportunity to debate this issue.
I support the call to invite the Commissioner, Mr. Solbes, to the House to discuss the issue which has come before us in recent weeks and to explore the nature of our relationship with other members of the European Union, including our changing role within it.
I also support the calls for a wide-ranging debate on the issue of road deaths. In particular, the Leader should ask the Minister to address the role of the National Roads Authority and its relationship to local authorities. When the attention of the NRA is brought to a dangerous location their response is often not to address the issue until road death numbers have gone up. The Minister should address that.
I once again ask the Leader of the House for a debate on the whole issue of waste management.
Could the Leader inform the House when the Committee and Report Stages of the Broadcasting Bill will be taken? I asked him last week to outline the parliamentary timetable for the local government Bill, but he omitted to mention it in his response, perhaps inadvertently.
I agree with Senator Manning in regard to the semi-State bodies. These bodies are showing themselves to be almost ungovernable. Many of them seem to act as though they are independent republics. That is not right in a democracy.
Are you supporting the request for a debate on this?
Very much so. I also agree with his other remarks.
I ask the Leader of the House to draw to the attention of the appropriate authorities No. 23, motion 24 about the conditions of the area of this complex known as the bunker. I do not want to make too many extravagant demands but really we should have decent direct access and we should also have access to our offices at weekends, which access is available to cleaners. It is ridiculous to be treated like schoolchildren in this manner.
I formally propose an amendment to the Order of Business that we take an item inviting Mr. Solbes and Mr. Prodi to this House to discuss the economy. I would certainly look forward to an opportunity to support the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy. It seems astonishing to me that they went through a range of indicators in all of which, to use the cliché, Ireland was top of the class. The one remaining one they said they were worried about was inflation. We had just published, before their meeting, figures that indicated our inflation was going down. What on earth are they talking about?
I want to make one qualification. If these gentlemen come, I would suggest that they be decently attired and properly shaved. I thought Mr. Solbes was an unattractive proposition on the television. I would like to include Mr. Prodi because I am delighted to hear there is a proddy running the Community. An extra one in the House will be a great refreshment to us here because the proddies seem to be entirely concentrated on this backbench.
That is not a suitable matter for an amendment to the Order of Business. It is a matter for Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I join with all the people who have called for the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to discuss the carnage on our roads which is certainly frightening. While there are many reasons for all the dreadful accidents that are taking place, the reality is that we have neglected the small county roads. In every local authority, there are requests each year for funding and the Department of the Environment and Local Government has not sanctioned that funding. As well as having a discussion on it, we should put that on our agenda. There is huge money for national roads but there is certainly—
Senator Hayes, you are now pre-empting the debate.
What about the fatal accidents?
These points you are making are relevant to the debate you are seeking and they not appropriate to the Order of Business.
On BSE and the issue that Senator Henry has raised, I ask that the Minister come in at a special time because there are proposals in relation to the destruction scheme. There are things we need to say and that need to be pointed out. I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come in and discuss it before he goes back to the Council of Ministers.
I ask the Leader for an in-depth debate on the whole education system. The Minister is commissioning and receiving reports and we had a very lively and interesting debate on a particular aspect of education last week. The report from Mr. Cromien was partly debated in a committee yesterday. This House should really debate these issues, particularly his point that the examination system should not be the prerogative of the Department of Education and Science. There are fundamental issues that need to be discussed and there is expertise on both sides of this House to do so.
Mr. Ryan
It is a pity we are not debating No. 2 because, given the number of eminent former members Fianna Fáil has dumped in recent years, it may have something to say on dumping and it might be entertaining. I would have seconded Senator Norris's proposal for an amendment to the Order of Business, but it has been ruled out of order. However, we should have a debate on Fianna Fáil's attitude to rules and regulations because it has demonstrated again that it ignores them when it suits it. The rules under which we are being criticised—
Political point scoring on the Order of Business is not really—
It is a tradition in this House.
It is a daily precedent.
—in the best interests of harmony.
Mr. Ryan
It would be a matter of great regret if I established a precedent on political point scoring. The House should debate the national attitude to rules. The dominant forces in society believe that rules are made and broken as is convenient. That is the problem with our attitude to the European Commission.
Like respect for the Chair.
Mr. Ryan
I have great respect for the Chair, particularly for the present incumbent. Is there a procedure for inquiring about the pace at which legislation, which is conscientiously dealt with in this House, is dealt with in the other House?
We have no control over the way in which the other House conducts its business.
Mr. Ryan
Two items of legislation which were passed three years ago in this House – one was passed in 1999 and seven were passed last year – are still on the Dáil Order Paper.
Do not give them that—
Mr. Ryan
The next time we are rushed into passing legislation perhaps somebody will explain why it sits on the other House's Order Paper indefinitely.
Senator Ryan has made his point.
Mr. Ryan
There is no report from the appropriate Oireachtas committee on item 3 on the Treaty of Amsterdam. The motion, which was referred to a committee last week, is now being passed with no report. Why refer items to committees if they do not produce reports? Debate on a sensitive issue is being diverted to where the media will not notice it. It is incorrect use of the otherwise valuable committees.
I support Senator Cregan in asking the Minister for Health and Children to come here to discuss the problems in the health service, particularly in the city where I live. He is more concerned with issues outside his brief, like the dump in Cork, than with those within his brief, such as the health service in Cork, which is a disgrace.
Sort it out.
Tomorrow a report on under age drinking will be launched by the Minister for Health and Children. The Leader of the House ought to ensure that report is debated here. Last year we passed the Intoxicating Liquor Act and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform rejected pleas from this side of the House to strengthen the provisions dealing with under age drinking. In reply to certain amendments which I tabled he became emotional and bad tempered, which a Minister ought not to do. The Intoxicating Liquor Act, 2000, in so far as it addresses under age drinking, is not working. Both the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should come to the House to hear the debate.
I join other Senators in seeking a debate on the carnage on our roads. It is self-evident that this matter must be dealt with sooner rather than later.
Last week the future of the Abbey Theatre was mentioned briefly on the Order of Business. The Leader said he would have some information for Members this week and perhaps he could outline the position.
Ireland's relationship with the EU was important in the past and will continue to be so in the future. Members should deal with this aspect in a serious manner when making comments. A survey carried out some months ago by the Commission showed that Ireland was one of the most progressive countries in receipt of transfers. It appears the Commission has changed its mind in that regard and I welcome the proposal that the officials mentioned should come to the House and explain to Members why they have changed their minds on this issue.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Fitzpatrick, Ormonde, Hayes, Jackman and Ryan expressed serious concern about the dreadful accidents and carnage on our roads. They called for an urgent debate on the matter and I will make time available for such a discussion. Those of us who are long-serving, and in some cases more recent, Members of the Seanad and local authorities are aware of the massive increase in allocations to county councils for road projects last week. If they have not arrived in the Munster area, they will probably do so tomorrow.
Senator Ryan referred to the largest political party in the country and the successful achievements of Fianna Fáil.
Mr. Ryan
I never said that. That is potentially libellous.
The Senator was born into Fianna Fáil, went to the Independents and is now a member of the Labour Party. I am warning the Fine Gael Party that there could be an approach in the near future.
That is political point-scoring.
He would be most welcome. The door is open.
I welcome the full Fine Gael Opposition bench.
Things are happening.
Senator Manning and Senator Coghlan inquired about the local government Bill. My information for local authority members is that hopefully it will receive a safe passage through the House by Easter.
Hopefully.
That is our earnest wish and our intention. As Members are aware, when we make up our minds, we do the business.
Senators Manning and O'Toole asked that the Minister for Public Enterprise be invited to the House to make a statement on and clarify the affairs of CIE and the ESB. I will pass on the Senators' request and try to arrange such a discussion at the earliest opportunity.
Senators O'Toole, Ross, O'Meara, Norris, Ó Murchú and Joe Doyle said that EU Commission President, Mr. Prodi, Commissioner Solbes and the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, should be invited to the House to debate the success of the Irish economy. Ireland is a future leader in Europe and we will be in a position to convince our fellow colleagues on how to run a successful economy. All Governments since 1987 have participated in this success.
Political point scoring.
I will allow time for such a discussion. I am grateful that Senator Joe Doyle, who is an experienced parliamentarian, also called for such a debate. I took his views into consideration in making my response.
Mr. Ryan
Arise and follow Charlie.
Senator O'Toole referred to the inland waterways. I will pass on his views to the Minister. The Senator also called for a debate on Northern Ireland and I will make time available for such a discussion.
Senators Cox and Ormonde asked that the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment be invited to the House to discuss the skills shortage. I will also make time available for this matter.
Senators Cregan, Henry and Ryan called for an urgent debate on accident and emergency services in hospitals. I have just looked through the expenditure in the Department of Health and Children since 1997. Since the Government came to power an additional £5 billion has been invested and an additional 70,000 persons per year have been provided with a service, which is very commendable.
It is a bigger problem. The money is not solving it.
I will, however, pass the Senator's views on to the Minister.
Senator Henry called for a debate on BSE and I will provide time for this. I am pleased to inform the House that in three weeks' time the Minister will come to the House to discuss the report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals.
Senators O'Meara and Coghlan called again for a debate on waste management. I committed time to this last week. Senator Keogh called for a debate on education regarding the appeals system and I will provide time for this.
Senator Connor called for a debate on under age drinking and the under age drinking report due to be published. I certainly will provide time for this. I agree that the sections the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform put in place in the last Bill have borne fruit. The penalties on those who allow under age drinking will continue. We must commend the Garda Síochána on its vigilance in this regard and hope it will be even more vigilant in the future because nobody can condone under age drinking.
Senator Fitzpatrick again requested a debate in the House on the Abbey Theatre. I certainly will provide time for this and I will discuss the matter with the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, and the Taoiseach in order that they may leave aside time in their diaries for such a debate.
May I ask for a ruling on whether the Leader's remarks about the political affiliations of Senator Ryan constituted political point-scoring on the Order of Business?