The Order of Business is No. 1, Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill, 1999 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] – Report and Final Stages; No. 2, Sex Offenders Bill, 2000 – Committee and Remaining Stages; and No. 15, motion 25, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. and business, if not previously concluded, will resume thereafter. Business will be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
As far as I am concerned, the business is agreed. We read today that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is shortly to bring forward proposals aimed at deregulating the licensed vintners trade. If this is the case, perhaps it would be appropriate for the Minister to come into the House, before or shortly after he publishes his proposals, to have a debate here. There are very far-reaching issues involved as the pub, for good or ill, is at the centre of much of Irish social life. There are questions of under age drinking and the possible losses incurred by people under deregulation due to the value of investments and so forth. As the issues are wide-ranging, it will help if the Minister comes into the House to explain what he proposes to do and gets the benefit of the views of the Members before the proposals are cast in stone.
It is now almost five years since the country voted for divorce and I think the new regime has worked well. It would be appropriate, perhaps in the autumn, to have a debate on how the divorce legislation has worked over the past five years and whether there is a need for fundamental changes in the way it operates. Will the Deputy Leader pencil it in as a topic, which we can discuss with profit as soon as there is time available?
The Order of Business is agreed. I previously raised with the Department of the Marine the issue of the LE Deirdre, on which a report is out today. Will the Deputy Leader request the appropriate Minister to come in and discuss the matter here? It is proposed that the ship will be sold for £200,000, but the top deck would be worth more in scrap value. We are the only country in Europe which I know of that does not have a maritime or ship museum. If one goes to London there is the HMS Belfast, the Endeavour is in Dundee and there is a number of ship museums in Portsmouth. When one goes to Boston, The Constitution is in the harbour. The £200,000 sale price would be picked up in two months of tourist trade, and I ask that this point be made to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation or the Minister for the Marine. If it is not sited in Dublin it can be put in the Spike Island museum or, with the new interest in navigation in Limerick city, it would be ideal along the docks in Limerick.
This is part of our national heritage. There is too little interest in our maritime culture and very little interest in what our Naval Service has done. This is a great opportunity to have a tourist attraction which also celebrates part of our culture. It does not need to be in Dublin. Perhaps people who represent areas where there are ports might take an interest in this. Most of our ports have been done up since the new harbour authorities were set up by this House—
I suggest to Senator O'Toole that this would be a very appropriate matter for the Adjournment.
I am expressing the view that this is not just a minor issue for the Dublin area. This ship could be sited anywhere. It could be a tourist attraction—
However, the matter could be raised more appropriately on the Adjournment.
I would consider that suggestion if I could get some indication of who the appropriate Minister is. Is it the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, or the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Fahey? I ask that this matter be debated and that other Members of the House consider it. People with harbour authority interests should bear this in mind. We could look at all the options from Foynes to Ballylongford to Limerick.
Perhaps Senator O'Toole would consider bringing it down to the Seanad.
And issuing a statement—
He would then find out the relevance of the response.
Senator Costello must keep to the Order of Business.
I echo Senator Manning's comments on the recommendations on liquor licensing produced by the commission appointed by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue. There are a lot of leftovers from the last legislation introduced by the Minister. The question of deregulation of off-licences and public house licences is a major part of that. This report was published at the same time as yesterday's report by the Higher Education Authority which attributes much of the reason for dropout rates in third level institutions to an inordinate amount of drinking among students, in addition to the money and time they spend on alcohol.
This comes against the background of the report of the European survey on under age drinkers, which found that up to 89% of 15 to 16 year olds in Ireland were regular drinkers and that 69% of our 15 to 16 year olds had been drunk at some stage in the last 12 months. Clearly this raises issues about licensing, under age drinking and drinking in general. According to the statistics, we drink twice the European average. We need, therefore, a broad debate on the issue before the Minister introduces legislation on it. The Seanad is the obvious body to hold this debate because of the expertise available in this House, many Members having been involved in the trade.
In recent weeks a number of Senators have called for a debate to be held on education once things have settled down. Our examination system is unique among the European states. That fact, combined with approach of the leaving certificate examinations in a few weeks with all the stress that brings, makes this an opportune time to hold that debate.
I ask the Deputy Leader to arrange a wide-ranging debate on disability. Despite a serious shortage in the labour market, it appears that neither the public nor private sector is taking seriously the commitment to employ people with disability. New figures reveal that the proportion of people with disabilities employed in the public service is only 1.9% despite an agreement that up to 3% would be disabled people. Some 80% of disabled people are unemployed and it can no longer be argued that they can only be employed in certain areas. With modern technologies they are a major asset to a potential employer and serious consideration should be given to that fact.
Will the Leader indicate what movement there has been on the local government Bill? It is crazy that a Bill published over a year ago has made very limited progress to date. Is there a likelihood that it will come before this House before the summer recess? The Bill contains many sections, much more than the provisions on the dual mandate. It also contains many positive reforms to local government. Has any progress been made or is the stand-off continuing?
Will the Horse and Greyhound Racing Bill come before the House in the coming weeks?
Last week the Environmental Protection Agency announced that it had tested 23 beaches for salmonella, four of which were found to be unsafe. Immediately afterwards it apologised and issued a statement saying that those four beaches are safe. The Minister should tell the House the steps he has taken to ensure such a thing will not happen again, and also that the Environmental Protection Agency will find a way to ensure those who use the beaches of Dollymount, Portmarnock, Portrane and Sutton can put their minds at rest. It needs action rather than words. An apology is fine but the Minister should tell the House that he has ensured the Environmental Protection Agency can guarantee this will not happen again.
A serious difficulty has recently arisen regarding sheep shearing. I am conscious of the expert way in which the foot and mouth crisis was handled by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh. However, a difficulty has arisen due to the regulations laid down by the expert group. Members from sheep farming areas are aware that sheep shearing has to be undertaken at this time each year and that the weather plays a major part in the process. Major difficulties have arisen as three days notice is needed before sheep shearing but one shower of rain can change everything and can mean that shearing must be put off for a day.
I ask the Deputy Leader to bring this matter to the attention of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. The expert group might relax the regulations in order that this necessary operation, particular to certain parts of the country, can proceed in a more relaxed fashion. Major difficulties exclusive to this annual operation are known only in those counties involved. There is a risk of a major outbreak of maggot disease and other diseases due to the regulations in place. I have received many representations on the issue which needs urgent attention.
I support the views expressed by Senator Manning on deregulation and the concerns about drink being widely available to young people. The Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business recently discussed the matter and saw grave dangers in a total liberalisation of the trade. We should proceed with caution. I support Senator Manning's request that the Minister come before the House as soon as possible, preferably before any legislation is cast in stone.
I support the views of Senator O'Toole on his suggestion that a maritime museum be located at one of our harbours. I also support Senator Cosgrave's comments on the local government Bill, 2000, on which I asked a question yesterday in the light of the decision made in Killarney on Monday to which I did not receive an answer. Perhaps we might be enlightened this morning.
I would like a debate on FÁS and its operations. There was veiled criticism recently in the OECD report, although this was appropriately answered. We should ventilate the subject. Senator Mooney spoke this morning of the situation in Leitrim where many are isolated once FÁS schemes end. We need to look again at the legislation governing FÁS in order that if there is a bar on the social aspect of this type of employment, we can rejig the legislation.
I support Senator O'Toole's call for debate on the fate of the LE Deirdre. Numerous suggestions can be made and are frequently made from the back benches of the House, including from Senator Quinn, although he missed his opportunity today. I suggest the State take over the LE Deirdre for use as Ireland's first presidential yacht. This would obviate the awkwardness of the President's situation where she must seek planning permission for a holiday home.
I want to raise matters dealt with at the Irish Planning Institute conference in Kilkenny on Monday and the views expressed by the institute on the overall aspect of planning within the national spatial plan. Yesterday's statement by the Minster of State with responsibility for rural development, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, is in contrast with what was said at the conference in Kilkenny. How we are to progress with planning and housing in rural Ireland needs to be debated in an overall context. There are a lot of contradictions about which the public are very concerned. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, should be invited to this House to have a discussion on how we approach this issue.
I support the issue which Senator Finneran raised on the regulations governing sheep shearing in the light of the foot and mouth scare. The regulations are draconian in that they have delayed significantly the commencement of shearing and are restrictive in the way in which it can be carried out. It is an enormous cruelty to leave sheep to carry a full fleece given the warm weather which we have been having. There is also an unpleasant pest strike that they can suffer as well. This is something which might not be taken seriously but it certainly ought to be.
We already have had a comprehensive debate on broadcasting, but in the light of the director general of RTÉ appearing at the Joint Committee on Heritage and Irish language yesterday I call for a further debate on the future of broadcasting. The debate should look at issues such as the nature of public service broadcasting. While the director general replied to some questions on that, I felt that it was inadequate. We welcome his announcement that the veil of secrecy that has covered the payment of salaries and expenses to well-known broadcasters is to be lifted. That is something which could be revisited in the debate. The dissemination of Irish broadcasting around the world could also be discussed. Modern technology such as the Internet and satellite broadcasting are used. Nevertheless Ireland does not have a short-wave broadcast service, unlike most other countries, some of which are much smaller and poorer than us. Will the Deputy Leader agree to such a debate at an early time?
I support the call for a day long debate on education. Senator Costello called for the debate and I have also called for it on a number of occasions. I ask that the Cromien report and the report of the NCCA be given a day long debate. It is well overdue. In his excellent report on the Department of Education and Science, Sean Cromien described the Department as a place where the urgent and the topical often displaced that which is important. I do not think we would like that to be said about any other institution of State.
Education is fundamentally important and it is a long time since we had a thorough debate on it in this House. I ask that this session not be allowed to conclude without having a full day dedicated specifically to these education reports.
Last week I asked for a debate on public disorder. This morning Senator Manning has brought up the issue of deregulation of the drinks trade. If we had a discussion on public disorder we would find out whether or not there should be deregulation. It is in this House, and not in commissions, that we will find what is best for the country. We are public representatives and I find it most disturbing that we are to set up another commission to investigate something on behalf of the Government. It is in these Houses that we can find out exactly what is happening. I have been a long time in the drinks trade and we should not put the cart before the horse in debating deregulation before we debate public disorder.
I support the call from Senator Chambers for a debate on housing. I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, on his statement. I thought he was brilliant. A lot of building in rural Ireland in prohibited and inhibited by self-appointed experts living in this city. It is time members of rural communities spoke out and I am glad the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, did so on their behalf.
I request a debate on motor insurance and road safety. It was reported on radio yesterday that a number of drunken drivers pass across toll bridges late at night and in the early hours of the morning. What is the Garda Síochána doing about this type of behaviour? It is not acceptable that inebriated persons should be able to drive along the M50. Most of us are obliged to pay an additional £100 in motor insurance costs because of the number of people who do not have insurance. Traffic wardens should be given permission to check tax and insurance and to report cars that are not taxed or insured. Uninsured cars should be seized on the spot. A great deal is often said about young drivers being penalised, but it is those who drive without insurance who should be penalised.
I have called on a number of occasions for a debate on disability, particularly in the absence of the disability legislation which we had hoped would come before the House during this session. It is a major disappointment that this will not happen. Many issues relating to this matter have been identified, primary among which is that of employment. People with disabilities undoubtedly have skills which are not being used and it is dreadful that they are willing and able to work but are not being approached by many employers, particularly those within the public service. We must address this matter.
I support the call for a debate on education and the Cromien report, to which Senator Quill referred. We have been promised such a debate, which is long overdue. It would be timely to have that debate, particularly as the examination season is upon us again.
I support Senators Keogh and Quill in their call for a debate on education and the Cromien report. I hope the Leader or the Deputy Leader will arrange to hold such a debate during this session.
I also request a debate on tourism, the marketing thereof and the details of what took place at the Cabinet meeting in Killarney. Many people have lost a great deal of money as a result of the foot and mouth disease crisis and it would be appropriate for the House to have a debate on this matter. It will be too late to do so when the session concludes. This is a matter of immediate importance and the Leader should arrange a debate at the earliest opportunity.
I also support the call for a debate on the Cromien report, a worthwhile document that should be debated by the House at length. In conjunction with that report, we could also discuss the new commission which has been established to oversee educational welfare, school attendance etc. The latter is extremely important in terms of the restructuring of the Department.
On many occasions I have requested a debate on the housing strategy. In light of the recent planning conference which highlighted defects in the system, we should also investigate the role of An Bord Pleanála. We have a golden opportunity to debate the housing strategy, incorporated in which could be a discussion on how planning applications are granted and how An Bord Pleanála can perhaps work against us in terms of how it does its business.
Senators Manning, Costello, Coghlan and Dino Cregan referred to the deregulation of the licensed trade. This matter is worthy of debate and I share the view that the House has an input to make into issues of this nature. Increasingly, however, our opinion is considered secondary to that of an expert group established to discuss such matters. The House should debate this issue and I will see if time can be made available at the earliest opportunity prior to the issuing of the detailed proposals and regulations.
Senator Costello also raised the issue of the responsible use of alcohol. Senator Farrell and others spoke about that in the context of road safety and insurance. I am aware of and do not deny the relationship between alcohol abuse and the dropout rate in colleges. It is one of the undesirable by-products of the Celtic tiger that there appears to be a great deal of money available to young people with which to buy drink. That said, they appear to be much more responsible in their use of motor vehicles than our generation. When it comes to consuming alcohol, it appears that they do not drive vehicles when drunk, whereas the culture 30 years ago was very much one where people drove while drunk. I do not deny that there is still a problem with drunken driving and that should be dealt with, as Senator Farrell recommended.
The statistics regarding alcohol cited by Senator Coghlan related to beer. The consumption of beer among younger people is high by European standards, but I am not so sure total alcohol consumption is high compared to coun tries such as France where a great deal of wine is consumed.
I noted some comments in the papers in recent days regarding divorce and the operation of divorce legislation. Some of the fears expressed when this matter was discussed in the Houses have proved to be unfounded, certainly in respect of the numbers seeking divorce. I agree with Senator Manning that it is a subject we should spend some time discussing when we return in the autumn.
Senators Coghlan, O'Toole and Norris spoke about the LE Deirdre. Coming from the middle of the country, perhaps I am one of those about whom Senator O'Toole spoke who have little interest in marine matters. I am sure significant costs would be associated with restoring the vessel and using it as a museum. Nevertheless, the proposal is worthy of consideration and I will bring it to the attention of the relevant Minister, bearing in mind the Cathaoirleach's advice that this issue, along with others raised, would be appropriate to the Adjournment—
Does the Senator seek promotion?
—or to a Private Members' motion. Senators Costello, Quill, Keogh, Burke and Ormonde spoke about education and there has been a recurring call for a debate. It is something we should dispose of as early as possible. I agree it is a good time to do it in light of the Cromien report and the fact that exams will take place soon. I will have a detailed discussion with the Leader on his return to see what can be done in this context.
Senators Kett and Keogh raised the issue of disability. I agree strongly with the Senators about the need to have more disabled people in full-time employment. Steps have been taken to improve the position but it needs further improvement. There are certain legal obligations. We have enacted legislation in recent years which imposes obligations of which employers and others should be conscious. People with a disability who are capable of making a full and useful input into society should be enabled to do that and it is not good enough that they are excluded in many cases.
In reply to Senators Cosgrave and Coghlan, I understand from the Taoiseach's reply in the other House yesterday that Second Stage of the local government Bill is to resume when the Houses return after the referendums. The Taoiseach expressed the hope it would be finished by the time we rise in summer. That is my understanding of the position.
He expressed that hope before.
I would not bet on that one.
I am not sure when it is expected the Horse and Greyhound Racing Bill will be debated in the Seanad, but I will report back to the Senator on that matter.
Senator Quinn referred to the Environmental Protection Agency and the quality of water on beaches. It is wrong that something such as this should happen but the EPA has a very good record in this respect. It has highlighted many issues which might not otherwise have been highlighted, something which has, perhaps, led to a general improvement in the environment. That said, I take the point the Senator made. It is well founded and I will bring it to the attention of the appropriate people.
Senators Finneran and Connor raised a serious issue, namely, the difficulties caused by the sheep shearing regulations, especially where a voluntary effort is made rather than people doing it on a commercial basis. Notwithstanding the fact that we have not had a foot and mouth case since March, there are still several instances of the disease in England. As there are outbreaks in Yorkshire and Lancashire there remains a requirement for vigilance. However some procedures are necessary to ensure shearing can go ahead on an orderly and proper basis and I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister. I am sure the expert group will bear the Senator's comments in mind.
Senator Norris raised the question of FÁS schemes. We must welcome the most recent unemployment figures of 3.7%. As recently as five years ago we would not have believed these figures were possible. The figure for Dublin is 2.6%. This is not to say the issue raised by the Senator is not an important one.
The figure for County Leitrim is 6%.
Yes. I accept what the Senator says about rural areas. The matter was highlighted this morning by the Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed which spoke about gaps in training and the inaccessibility of training in rural areas. The Senator's point is a reasonable one and I will see what can be done about it. Some other matters raised by the Senator are in the realm of surrealism. I will pass those by.
A presidential yacht, surely not.
Going up and down the Shannon, perhaps.
I am sure the President would enormously enjoy sailing on her yacht, as I am sure Senator Norris would enjoy visiting her on it.
Absolutely.
The Irish Planning Institute was referred to by Senators Chambers, Farrell and Ormonde. I agree with what the Senators have to say about the difficulties of building in rural areas. When the local government Bill comes before the House it would be appropriate to discuss some of these issues. Major planning legislation was debated in the House recently when many points were made about An Bord Pleanála.
Senator Connor raised the question of public service broadcasting. These issues can be debated in the House but they might more appropriately be dealt with by the committee which has responsibility for them and where they were discussed yesterday.
The question of public order raised by Senator Dino Cregan relates to the matter of alcohol to which I have referred. The Public Order Act has been used very effectively in my area to break up disorderly crowds and even small groups of youths. The legislation is in place. However the Senator is correct when he says the opinion of the House is important. This should be evident.
Senator Farrell spoke about insurance and road safety. It is not desirable that people who are compliant with the law must bear the cost of those who are not. The existing law has very strong powers and one hopes they are used.
Senator Burke spoke about tourism. On Monday, the Government announced an allocation of £2 million for tourism promotion. President Clinton's visit has been useful in promoting Ireland in the United States. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation reported to the House when we discussed the foot and mouth crisis. This is a matter to which the House can return later.
Order of Business agreed to.