The Order of Business is No. 1, Sea Pollution (Hazardous Substances) (Compensation) Bill 2000 — Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 5.30 p.m. Spokespersons have 15 minutes each and other speakers have ten minutes each, with the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage.
Order of Business.
I have no difficulty with the proposed Order of Business. Will the Leader of the House send a note of congratulations, on behalf of the House, to Prime Minister Blair on his historic third term? We have not had a chance to meet since the election in the United Kingdom last week. Mr. Blair has won an historic third term for the Labour Party, although reading Sunday's newspapers one might think it was not a victory. Clearly, however, he has a mandate to do many things. One of them, which this country seeks, is to secure a complete conclusion to the peace process and to the outstanding elements in the Good Friday Agreement.
Does the Leader agree that one of the most important figures in unionism since Faulkner and O'Neill was David Trimble? The loss of his seat in Upper Bann is, in many respects, a defeat for the decent middle ground in Northern Irish politics in which people seek to reach out to both communities. David Trimble is a politician who took substantial risks for peace. Despite the difficulties that now pertain in Northern Ireland and the difficult times that lie ahead, the bottom line is that his analysis is the only one through which we can find ultimate peace and the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. I urge both the British and Irish Governments to do everything they can to bring the political situation in Northern Ireland to a head and to ensure the Good Friday Agreement is implemented.
It will be difficult. I recall the words of a former Member of this House, Séamus Mallon, who recently spoke about the Balkanisation of Northern Ireland. We must ensure that the unique political message of the middle ground in Northern Ireland continues to be heard in Northern Ireland and throughout these islands. Both Governments must do everything they can to help that process.
Last Friday, there was a type of Mexican stand-off between the McBreartys and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform about the issue of costs at the tribunal. I have raised this issue previously with the Leader of the House. Will she invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to outline the outstanding difficulties? Everybody wishes to see the tribunal work well but this is an urgent matter which should be discussed in the House. Senator O'Toole proposed at the time that the House debate the first report of the tribunal. It seems ridiculous that agreement cannot be reached between the McBrearty legal team and that of the State to bring these matters to a conclusion. I ask the Leader to use her good offices to speak to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform about this issue.
Over the weekend I started reading the book written by the woman who was a central character in that debate. It is absolutely incredible. I would welcome a debate on the matter.
Last week I raised the Marino college case. I put on record my thanks to the Leader of the House for raising it with the Minister for Education and Science. I welcome the fact that the Minister has now put in train an investigation into one aspect of the issue. I appreciate that and thank the Leader.
It does not take much analysis to work out what happened to David Trimble. We discussed the Good Friday Agreement many times in the House. The Agreement was very clear. A crucial, fundamental and essential part of it was that the IRA would stand down, that there would be total decommissioning and demilitarisation. That was the message David Trimble tried to sell to his followers and to the Ulster Unionist Party.
At some stage in the past couple of years UUP followers or members came to the same conclusion many people in this House had come to previously, namely, that decommissioning, demilitarisation and putting arms beyond use was not going to happen. Therefore, the UUP voters lost trust and confidence in the Agreement and voted against David Trimble. That is what happened. It does not require a very complex analysis.
As Senator Brian Hayes said, we are now faced with the difficulty of putting the pieces back together. That essentially means trying to gain and win the trust and confidence of a significant portion of the Unionist community. That is the challenge that is before us and the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair. I do not know how we are going to do this but we do have to look at it. I would welcome a debate so people could put forward creative ideas as to how we might achieve that objective.
Last weekend a garda in Carrickmacross went to investigate something suspicious on the bridge in the town. For doing his duty he found himself grappled with and thrown over the bridge. He is still in hospital with numerous fractures. The way things are in society, it is hardly worth more than half a paragraph in the newspapers. It is quite appalling that a public servant, a guardian of the peace, working on our behalf should be treated so badly.
Last Friday in a little post office in Glasnevin which was being held up, an African man went to the aid of staff. At great personal risk, he threw himself at the man who was holding up the post office, grappled with him and they both went through the window. He held the man down until gardaí arrived. The first thing the gardaí heard was the man on the ground who had been attempting to rob the post office say: "I want this man sued." That is the point we have reached in society. Litigious Ireland has gone beyond all control. We must have some indication from the Minister on how we can change attitudes in this area so we can stand together.
That is the first step.
This House has stood firmly behind the family and friends of the late Robert McCartney. Yesterday it was stated on RTE that the family insisted Mr. McCartney was killed by the Provisional IRA. Today it was stated on RTE that Mr. McCartney was alleged to have been killed by members of the Provisional IRA. Robert McCartney was murdered by members of the IRA. It is not an allegation made on the insistence of the family, it is a fact. I have no idea why our national broadcaster appears to want to dilute that fact by putting it the way it has done. Is it that it thinks the IRA will sue it for libel? There is no need for this. No person has been named. I will not say I find this dilution of that most offensive crime sinister, but it is a sloppy use of language by our national broadcaster.
There was another leak from Sellafield which we did not hear about until recently. As a sometime engineer, part of the report horrified me. It states, "The company has yet to devise a way to get the highly radioactive liquid out of the chamber." That is where it has leaked into. If those involved do not know how to get it out, they never expected it to happen. I say this with some professional competence, though I am not trying to claim expertise. If they cannot get it out, it means they never expected it to happen. How can we trust them when they say the whole thing is safe if events they never expected can happen and close down the plant for months? We need to refocus on the fact that there is no way Sellafield can be safe. It is a danger to all of us and this needs to be reiterated.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to explain to this House the extraordinary refusal to publish the details of the decision-making structures and processes of the refugee appeals body? All of its appeal outcomes are secret. We do not know how individual members of that body make their decisions. We do not know whether some of them accept 75% of the appeals or others reject 95%. This is entirely unacceptable. One cannot have a quasi-judicial body making such fundamental decisions in secret. When other people do that type of thing we get extremely annoyed, and quite rightly. The Minister should discuss yet again with this House the whole issue of the secrecy involved in the process of deciding who may or may not live here and how decisions are taken to deport people from the country.
I join with Senator Brian Hayes in sending our congratulations to Prime Minister Blair on his electoral victory. However, from an Irish viewpoint, there must be some puzzlement over the fact that a party gets more than a third of the popular vote and secures a comfortable overall majority in parliament.
The Senator will have noted my silence on the matter.
It gives us an opportunity to review events in Northern Ireland. Perhaps it would be a good time to debate events there, and I recommend that to the Leader. It was a matter of some disappointment that support for the so-called middle ground eroded in Northern Ireland and the more hardline margins increased their support. However, it was a matter of some satisfaction that the SDLP secured the seats it did and that its leader, Mr. Durkan, was elected. We commiserate with Mr. Trimble, of course, over the loss of his seat.
We frequently talk about "rip-off Ireland" and its impact. However, it has to be a matter of some congratulations that the Personal Injuries Assessment Board has now made awards which have been accepted. In one case the figure awarded was of the order of €60,000. The costs involved would have been €20,000 if the case had gone to court. Instead, they were of the order of €1,200 because it was processed by the PIAB. It vindicates the Government's decision and that of the then Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to establish the board. It is having a positive effect. I understand insurance costs are now down to the level they were several years ago. Therefore, there is some progress. It is not all bad news on that front.
I support what Senator O'Toole said about the garda and what occurred in County Monaghan. We should all be concerned at what is happening in Ireland with criminal gangs, drugs, various types of lawlessness and murders happening on a frequent basis. Drugs shipments are coming from eastern European countries, frequently with "lucky bags" of guns included. In the case of Limerick, in recent times a grenade was lobbed into a house. Fortunately, the occupants were in the rear of the house. What is going to happen next? It is worrying that children are growing up in this country in the way it is evolving. While the Criminal Assets Bureau is doing a good job, it is time the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform placed all available resources at the disposal of the Garda. We have to weed out what is happening and it must concern all of us at this stage.
Recently when the people of Iraq voted in elections and expressed their democratic preferences, we rightly lauded them. Likewise, we should laud people in Northern Ireland who voted and expressed their democratic choices. Although we may not like the results on one side or the other, the message for us is that we must listen carefully. Why do people vote for one side or another in an election in Northern Ireland unless there are severe and extreme concerns? The peace process has gone through a rough patch. A number of commentators say that was due to pre-election nerves, which may be part of the reason but, at this stage, we should comment in a more balanced and helpful way.
One difficulty arising from a vacuum is that people make comments or take up a position that will cause problems in achieving a solution later. That is always the difficulty but there are outstanding difficulties on every side, a number of which I have raised in the House. The Pat Finucane case is outstanding. We were all shocked by the new legislation brought through the British Parliament to ensure a fudge in that case. I refer to the Robert Hamill case. The RUC looked on as he was beaten to death and did not intervene. Rosemary Nelson who was a good legal representative was blown up by a bomb. We all need to step back a little and not always apportion blame only to one side. It might have been a good time to debate Northern Ireland issues prior to the elections but it would be helpful if we had such a debate in the coming weeks.
Last week I asked for a debate on the Prison Service following the publication of the prison visiting committee report but since then I have discovered that the annual report of the Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention has also been published. Both reports make interesting reading and it would be of immense benefit to us to hear the views of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform thereon. The Connect project, which was discontinued three years ago, had great advantages and one in three of those who attended the course in prison gained employment upon release, which was much better than previous initiatives. It would be useful if the Minister explained the reports to us and if we had the opportunity to comment on them.
I join Senator Brian Hayes in congratulating Tony Blair, whose presence is important to complete the peace process. I also pay tribute to the outgoing Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, both for what he did over the past two years and for the crucial role he played as Minister of State during the negotiations on the Good Friday Agreement. In congratulating all those who have won seats in the Northern Ireland election, we must recognise that David Trimble, who has resigned as leader of the UUP, and his party did a great deal of heavy lifting, as did the SDLP, which has survived to fight another day.
We welcome a delegation from Tasmania to the House today and most weeks we welcome a visiting delegation. It should be possible for Members to pay a return visit, for example, to Tasmania without being heavily criticised by the media, who do not like when we deal with constituency matters or when we travel abroad. One of the functions of parliamentarians is to be international representatives of their country. We all know comparative perspectives are enriching. Some people think we only won home rule 80 years ago but we won national independence and Ireland is one of the most globalised countries. We should reflect that, as should our media.
Senators
Hear, hear.
Despite the advance publicity, there was no white smoke following the earlier Cabinet meeting regarding the provision of a second terminal at Dublin Airport. In fact it may not have even been discussed. The Ministers I met told me their lips are sealed. I would like to put forward a suggestion and hear the Leader's comments on it. I have not heard it——
The Senator should put forward a suggestion and the Leader will give her views and her response.
In her own inimitable style, of course.
What about Senator Morrissey?
Aer Rianta International has done a wonderful job at airports abroad. Perhaps it might be considered as it would be worthy in light of its experience and success.
I am glad the report of the Inspector of Prisons, Mr. Justice Dermot Kinlen, has been published. I asked about it at least six months ago. I do not know why it was delayed. I am sure the Leader will give us the opportunity to debate it in due course.
I would like to join with Senator Brian Hayes and other Senators who have asked for a debate on the North.
I ask the Leader to organise at the earliest opportunity a debate on value for money in public spending. Anyone who saw the programme on this subject last night must be concerned about the information presented to the public on how successive Governments and State agencies have spent taxpayers' money. However, the programme did not have the necessary balance, nor did it present an opportunity for the people involved to put forward their side of the story. It is incumbent on the Government and the relevant Ministers to lay out the facts on this issue. The Seanad would particularly welcome that, as it the House where one can have a more broad and open debate on such issues. It is important that this be done in order to allay the fears of the public and to set before us hard evidence to ensure this type of misinformation does not continue.
I call Senator Ross and would remind all Senators that there is a time limit and contributions should be brief.
I take up the suggestion that the Leader send a message of congratulations to Mr. Tony Blair but it should be more than a token message of congratulations. The Leader should take the opportunity to include a caveat on Sellafield. Senator Ryan raised this constant problem. We tend to throw shapes at this problem when a crisis arises or when there are difficulties or danger, but then we let it drop. It is a real issue in Anglo-Irish relations and this would be an opportune time for the Leader to express the concerns of this House. I also ask the Leader for a debate on that issue with the new Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
The issue of Northern Ireland has been raised by several speakers today and all have stated how depressing the situation is. It is depressing to see the moderates in Northern Ireland pushed to one side but if we reflect on the positions of Mr. DavidTrimble and this House ten years ago we might see a bright side to the story. It would have been unthinkable ten, or perhaps 15, years ago that we would have deplored the defeat of Mr. Trimble. We would have thrown insults at him. It is a great credit to this House that we are doing this as we have moved a long way, and it is also a great credit to Mr. Trimble that he has made the sacrifice of which we approve.
I ask the Leader to resume statements on regional transport policy, particularly as it refers to the rail network. We are all aware that much can be done to complement the vast improvements in the road network by improving the rail network. The Mullingar-Athlone rail line, the reopened Killucan station and several other examples nationally will greatly complement an improved rail and transport network. I call for a debate on the matter as soon as possible.
The findings of a survey among 220 general practitioners in Galway, Roscommon and Mayo are of serious concern. Of the general practitioners surveyed, 60% wish to retire before the age of 65, one in five wishes to retire before 60 and corresponding numbers of female general practitioners want to retire before the age of 55. Among the reasons given for wishing to retire early were stress——
Too much money.
——ill health and changes from the practice of hospitalisation to primary care. If the results of the survey are an indication of the level of service delivery we can expect in the west of Ireland in future, it is high time to flag to the Minister for Health and Children the seriousness of the scenario we face. Of those surveyed, 54% work in single-doctor practices. We are aware of the serious consequences of a lack of after-hours availability of general practitioners in the west.
I reject Senator Dooley's assertion that general practitioners are overpaid and have too much money. It is a scurrilous accusation to make against people who are trying to deliver a service to people in need.
We cannot have a discussion across the floor. We will have a debate on the matter.
If that is the Senator's attitude, he should stand up and say so.
I will debate it with the Senator in the Chamber.
I support Senator Quinn's call for a debate on the prisons report. It would be interesting to know if the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has decided eventually to make the position of Inspector of Prisons statutory as recommended quite some time ago. In his report, Mr. Justice Kinlen has gone so far as to say he has drafted a Bill which could be used by the Minister. We could debate the Bill in the House.
I support Senator Ulick Burke's comment on the survey of general practitioners. While it is very serious, the matter could be rectified very rapidly if we started to qualify enough doctors by making sufficient places available for medical students.
Hear, hear.
The problem could be addressed immediately if the Minister for Education and Science were to make more places available in the autumn. The points level would drop and we would not be in the dreadful position of taking doctors from countries which do not have capacity of their own to fulfil our medical service needs. A recent appointment for an orthopaedic surgeon did not attract one EU candidate. Instead, all candidates were from non-EU countries in which they were needed far more. We are too mean to ensure enough of our own doctors qualify.
Since the current Minister for Health and Children took over the portfolio, conditions in the health service have gone from very bad to disastrous. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Health and Children to explain to the House the state of the ambulance service in the midlands. I was contacted yesterday by the daughter of a seriously ill and elderly lady for whom an ambulance could not be obtained to transport her from one hospital to another for specialist treatment. The case is indicative of the conditions which obtain in the midlands. Is the Leader aware that the Minister has instructed HSE officials to give out the names of private ambulance operators? The ambulance service is slowly being privatised, which is shameful and should not be allowed to happen.
The Senator can raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I am very disappointed by Councillor Dooley's slur on the medical profession.
(Interruptions).
Senator Dooley is not a councillor. I ask that Senator Bannon desist from referring to Senators as councillors.
The breakdown of law and order was raised by Senators Finucane and O'Toole.
The Senator should finish speaking because time is running out.
The truth hurts.
Criminal gangs target vulnerable areas on a nightly basis.
We will have a debate on that issue later.
Yesterday morning someone was tied up during a robbery. A similar incident occurred in Cork last week. There is a problem with law and order in this country.
Did anything good ever happen in Longford?
Order in the House please.
I hope for the sake of Senator Dooley that Senator Bannon's remarks are not prophetic.
On the Order of Business please, Senator.
We have been holding a mini-debate on Northern Ireland. I concur with requests from Senators for a full debate. It is time to devote a few hours to a debate on the election and other recent events. Some Members suggested that last week's results are somewhere between disappointing and disastrous. However, they are the results. Regardless of which politicians are elected to represent Northern Ireland at Westminster or in the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Good Friday Agreement has been signed on both sides of the Border. The political task is to ensure that the Agreement is completed. Those elected from the extremes of the spectrum will soon realise that, after the loud words die away, the Agreement is the only way forward. We must use a debate in this House and our words elsewhere to ensure that the Agreement is kept at the forefront of politics.
I also extend my congratulations to the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, on his achievement. He has transformed his country and party. It is remarkable that he won a hat trick of elections. Whether he will be there for the next 12 months or three years, he has an important role to play on Northern Ireland, in which we should wish him well.
This weekend, a school in Dublin 15 was broken into by thugs. Significant damage was caused which resulted in the closure of the school yesterday. While ongoing anti-social behaviour in many areas is in itself a major problem, additional difficulties arose in this instance when gardaí took two hours to respond to a call made after the break-in was discovered. This was because Blanchardstown gardaí were taken away from their duties to provide security for international visitors at Farmleigh House. I understand that these duties must be performed but this should not be at the expense of providing security and responding to calls in Dublin 15.
Hear, hear.
Once again, we find that resources to maintain law and order are lacking. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform needs to address this very serious problem. The Minister has been called upon many times today to come here to debate various issues. I wish to bring the plight of prison officers to his attention and to express my disgust that he refused to attend their conference.
Senators
Hear, hear.
That is a matter for the Minister.
He is their boss and he must enter negotiations with them to resolve this issue.
I concur with previous speakers who requested a debate on Northern Ireland. The lesson to be learned from the election results is that we must question matters far more. All parties agreeing with one another is not necessarily the way forward. The former Senator and former deputy leader of the SDLP, Mr. Séamus Mallon, spoke on the radio today and was quite critical of British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, and the Taoiseach.
We must question issues and adopt a mature attitude towards Northern Ireland. We should be confident enough to query matters at all times in the interests of finding a lasting solution to the problems in Northern Ireland. I hope we can move on and have genuine debates on Northern Ireland.
I agree with Senator Ulick Burke about the need for a debate on the number of GPs in the country. It is a major issue in Carlow, where an individual recently found it impossible to get an appointment to see a GP because he was not an existing patient. In many areas it is very difficult for people to become patients of a GP. The individual I referred to spent over a week attempting to get an appointment and only after contacting eight different doctors, did he finally succeed. This issue must be examined and I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Health and Children to debate this in the House.
Could the Leader also ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the House to answer questions on his café bar proposals? Does the Minister have a business model for such establishments and, if not, does he intend to produce one? He has spoken before the House on many issues but many people believe he has not thought this particular proposal through.
Does the Senator wish to hear from the Minister or from an accountant?
I ask the Leader to ascertain from the Minister if he has a business model in mind.
Senator Brian Hayes, the Leader of the Opposition, sent his good wishes to the British Prime Minister. I will telephone Mr. Blair's office to pass on our congratulations. Senator Hayes argued that the task ahead is to ensure the complete conclusion of the peace process. He regretted the fact that Mr. DavidTrimble, who always sought to uphold the middle ground, lost his seat.
I dealt with Mr. Trimble during my involvement with the North-South bodies and he was a very fine contributor who had some excellent ideas. I always had time for him and I too am sorry he was not re-elected. There is no doubt he suffered because of various other matters outside of his control. However, he took his defeat graciously and in very good spirit.
Senator Brian Hayes also asked about the stand-off between the McBrearty family and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I suggest that is a matter for the Morris tribunal.
Senator O'Toole expressed satisfaction that a review of the Marino Institute of Education is under way. I am also pleased with that development. The Senator went on to express the view that decommissioning will not happen. Mr.Trimble referred to decommissioning as one of the reasons the ground beneath him shifted so much.
Senator O'Toole also raised the matter of the garda in Carrickmacross who was thrown off a bridge. We will debate law and order issues tomorrow and that matter can be addressed then.
Senator Ryan rejected the use of the word "alleged" in reference to the murder of Robert McCartney by the IRA. I note the word only appeared in reports this morning. The Senator asserted emphatically that Robert McCartney was murdered by the IRA. I agree with Senator Ryan that we could usefully debate Sellafield in the House.
Like Senator Ryan, I have requested information from the Refugee Appeals Tribunal on numerous occasions regarding the reasons for its decisions. The tribunal does not issue such information, but it would be useful to have an explanation as to how it operates.
Senator Dardis referred to the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, and to Northern Ireland. He also raised the matter of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board which has published its determinations on compensation rates, which are much lower than they were in the past. All Members welcome that development.
Senator Finucane asked me to invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to debate law and order issues.
Senator Ó Murchú referred to the turnout in the elections in Northern Ireland. It is true that many issues remain unresolved, for example, the cases of Pat Finucane, Robert Hamill andRosemary Nelson. The Senator called for a full debate on such issues.
Senator Quinn requested a debate on the report of the Inspector of Prisons and places of detention and on the discontinuation of the Connect project. Senator Mansergh agreed with Senator Brian Hayes's remarks on the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair. He also wishes the House to send its appreciation to the former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Paul Murphy, who was a person who did Ireland proud. Mr. David Trimble's UUP and the SDLP bore the heat of the day when the going was tough. Senator Mansergh also joined in welcoming the Tasmanian delegation and said we should be able to adopt an international perspective without being snapped at our ankles anytime we ventured outside Leinster House.
Senator Coghlan referred to Aer Rianta International but I missed something of what he said. I think it was to the effect that the company might take over the hotels.
No.
He did not mention hotels?
It was about the second terminal.
The terminal issue.
It is a terminal issue.
Yes, indeed. The Senator also wanted the House to debate Mr. Dermot Kinlen's report on prisons.
Senator Dooley referred to the television programme on value for money in public spending and thought the facts were not balanced. Each module on the programme ended with the presenters saying they had requested someone to comment but they would not appear, so it was difficult to achieve a balance in that respect.
Senator Ross wanted a message to be sent by the House to Mr. Tony Blair embodying a statement on Sellafield. I may send two separate letters, however. The Senator also wants the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to attend the House. In addition, he said that Mr. David Trimble's work was a credit to Northern Ireland and I think we would all share that opinion.
Senator Glynn sought a resumed debate on regional transport policy. Senator Ulick Burke noted that general practitioners want to retire early. They do in three western counties, but I will not go into the other stray remarks.
We are the only group in the country that does not want to retire early.
The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, will not like the GPs going ahead of their time.
Senator Henry asked for a debate on the prison report quite some time ago and she did so again today. She said we should ensure there will be extra places for medical students this autumn. I can never understand why we limit the number of medical students when there is a huge shortage of doctors. As the Senator knows, however, foreign medical students pay full fees.
Senator Bannon said the situation in the health sector is very bad, including the ambulance service. I expect that if one was very ill, one would not care whether one was taken to hospital in a public or private ambulance, as long as one got there.
There are no ambulances available.
The Senator said people went in private ones. I share his concern aboutBallymahon where a heinous crime was committed in the local post office. Members of a family were tied up and bundled into rooms. Postmen were treated in the same way. Post offices atBallymahon, Glasson and Horseleap were targeted in one fell swoop. It is very disturbing.
Senator Bradford sought a full debate on Northern Ireland issues, including the Good Friday Agreement. Senator Terry said it took gardaí two hours to respond when a school was broken into in Dublin 15 because they had gone to police an event at Farmleigh. I am not aware of the situation concerning the deployment of gardaí, however. In addition, the Senator bemoaned the fact that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did not attend the prison officers' conference. However, the Minister is entitled to go wherever he wants. He chose not to go, although he has had many discussions with the prison officers and perhaps he has had enough of it. However, the Minister attends this House whenever we want him to.
Senator Browne said we need to question policy on Northern Ireland, rather than accepting it all the time. He said the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should attend the House to debate law and order issues, but I presume he will be here tomorrow night.
I sought a business model for the Minister's café bar proposals.
The Senator wanted to see a business model but it is up to the would-be proprietors of such establishments to produce a business model for them.
The Minister has not thought it through.
Good Lord.
Order of Business agreed to.