The Order of Business is Nos. 1 and 2. No. 1, statements on proposals for supporting lone parents, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 5 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of other Senators not to exceed six minutes, and the Minister is to be called upon to reply not later than five minutes before the conclusion of the statements; and No. 2, Road Safety Authority Bill 2004 — Committee Stage, to be taken at 6.30 p.m. and to conclude not later than 9 p.m. There will be a sos from 5 p.m. to 6.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
The House should register its thanks to members of the Garda Síochána, to the staff and clergy of St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin and to all those involved in averting a potential disaster in the cathedral last week. I refer to the hunger and thirst strike by a number of Afghan refugees. There were ugly scenes outside that great cathedral involving demonstrators of various descriptions, none of whom helped to resolve the situation.
Lessons must be learned from the episode. It is utterly wrong that people in all four corners of this country have still not, after many years, received a determination as to their status. We must also review how transparent the refugee appeals system is because there is evidence that very few succeed. The House should debate whether, in this day and age, it is right and proper from the point of view of refugee protection for the appeals system to be based in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Both sides of the House have concerns on this issue, because we are talking about desperate people in desperate circumstances. While there must be an independent system to resolve an application for asylum we can, nevertheless, do better. If there is one lesson to be learned from the episode last week it is that there needs to be put in place a much more accountable system for dealing with refugee appeals in this country.
When will this House debate the Government's plans for Aer Lingus? My party has been quite supportive of the Government's attempts to introduce part-privatisation of the airline but we must be realistic and sensible about it. Given the recent downturn in equity markets the question must be asked as to what the benefits of privatisation will be in the short to medium term. Given the Taoiseach's ability to speak out of both sides of his mouth in recent days, the Minister must come to the House to give a clear statement of the Government's intent over Aer Lingus. It may not now be the right time to proceed with the sale because it may not ensure the maximum return to the Irish taxpayer. This House has a role to play in debating this important matter.
It is not ten years since the House discussed the future of Telecom Éireann in a debate which revolved around issues such as privatisation, nationalisation and state ownership. We should look back and learn from that debate. I recall Senators using arguments about having to wait for months to get a landline and the need for investment to ensure broadband was available throughout the country, as reasons to sell off Telecom Éireann. What was the result of the privatisation of the company? It created a couple of dozen more millionaires and allowed Eircom to be used as a vessel and plaything for asset strippers. We have now returned to the position of having to wait months for a landline and 80% of the country does not have access to broadband. A debate on this issue is needed.
Senator Brian Hayes raised an important point in this regard. We must forget the old ideas of nationalisation, privatisation and state ownership and instead examine whether we need to hold, let go of or use differently the assets still in State hands and determine whether our priority is nationalisation, privatisation or competition. I believe it is the third of these considerations. Senators should state honestly whether they believe that those who will buy Aer Lingus will do so with a view to investing in Ireland's airports and services for its citizens. I do not want to hear their views on whether the State should own assets or long philosophical discourses on privatisation and nationalisation. Senators, without resorting to jargon, should state what they envisage will happen if we choose to privatise Aer Lingus.
The Prime Minister of Australia will address a joint sitting of the Houses today. His presence offers Members a useful opportunity to express in a parliamentary fashion our views on the war in Iraq and Australia's involvement in it.
Hear, hear.
Members have expressed their views during a number of visits by important dignitaries from the United States. They may be our guests but this does not mean we must agree with everything they do. They should hear our views on their approach and policies. Such a discussion would be useful.
I support Senator Brian Hayes's call for a debate on the future plans for Aer Lingus and request a debate on the Iraq war, including Australia's involvement in it.
As a Munster man, I hope the Cathaoirleach will not mind if I congratulate the mighty men of the province, even if I am out of order.
Votes of congratulations should be announced by the Chair.
We are all wearing red.
It signifies congratulations to the Munster rugby team.
I do not see many male Senators wearing red.
Senator O'Meara has delivered her message.
(Interruptions).
I cannot hear the Cathaoirleach.
The House understands what the Senator was trying to say.
In case it did not, I was trying to extend congratulations to the Munster rugby team on its fabulous victory in Cardiff last Saturday.
I ask the Senator to speak on the Order of Business.
I add my voice to calls for a debate on the future of Aer Lingus. People have asked what the future of the company will be in the event that privatisation proceeds. We do not know the answer to this valid question just as we did not know what would happen to Telecom Éireann following privatisation. It is now too late to roll back that privatisation. The question which then arises is whether we are willing to take a similar risk with Aer Lingus. We cannot afford to do so because the sale of the national airline puts the national interest at stake. While I sense the Taoiseach has doubts about the value of privatisation, I also sense that certain forces are determined to proceed with it. It is important, therefore, to debate the future of Aer Lingus.
I share the relief of other Senators at the outcome of events in St. Patrick's Cathedral at the weekend and, like Senator Brian Hayes, believe it is important that an urgent review of the refugee appeals system is carried out. The recent actions of refugees were clearly not taken lightly and we must listen to their pleas.
On a matter I have raised previously and on which the Leader is probably working, what is the position with regard to the review of the regulations governing the operation of crèches? When one considers that the welfare of thousands of children is dependent on the operation of these regulations, one would expect the review to be urgent. We are still waiting for news of the proposals by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on a press council. I ask the Leader to let us know when that is likely to happen.
I join with Senator Brian Hayes in congratulating the Garda Síochána and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the stance taken last week in difficult circumstances. The situation could have turned bad in a short period. Clear leadership and direction must be given in such situations in order to achieve a successful outcome. We should also acknowledge that our system for dealing with appeals and granting refugee status is held up as a role model by the international community.
No.
It should also be acknowledged how much we have improved in processing such applications. There is always room for improvement, however, and if there are lessons to be learned from what occurred last week, then mechanisms should be put in place to ameliorate the situation.
We are quick to condemn actions by various groups but we should congratulate the 60,000 Irish ambassadors who visited Cardiff last week to support Munster.
I do not think that is appropriate.
They were ambassadors in their own right.
There are ambassadors coming and going every day, so we could be congratulating them every morning but we must stick to the Order of Business.
It was a unique occasion.
No. We will stick to the Order of Business please. There are lots of unique occasions.
The Senator is wearing a red tie.
That is not enough. He should wear a red shirt.
There were lessons to be learned from that occasion as regards community policing and crowd control when we saw how the civic authorities in Cardiff worked and the Munster supporters behaved themselves.
Well said.
I wish to thank the lady Members for having a red day in the Chamber today.
I join with Senator O'Toole in welcoming the fact that the Australian Prime Minister, Mr. Howard, is here today.
I do not think he welcomed him.
He welcomed the fact that Mr. Howard is here today. We should engage in the parliamentary process. Regardless of one's views on any particular individual, the Office of the Australian Prime Minister must be acknowledged together with the great associations between our country and Australia, and the many Irish people who have settled there.
Ned Kelly.
During the year, everyone here welcomed the fact that the Minister for Education and Science and the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children indicated collectively that the intake for medical schools would be increased, or doubled, in future. They said that, starting in October this year, there would be an additional intake of approximately 70 students. However, certain suggestions being made by vested interests are worrying to say the least. They are saying that in addition to achieving a minimum of 450 points in the leaving certificate, there will also be an aptitude test. Changing the points system specifically for entry to various medical degree and diploma courses downgrades the leaving certificate results. Aptitude tests would also create a wider interpretation of entry requirements than currently exists.
Over the years, the Minister for Education and Science has supported increased opportunities for those from disadvantaged backgrounds. I do not know how a mechanism can be found to level the playing pitch for all students seeking entry to medical schools if aptitude tests are to be introduced and there is no recognition of people from disadvantaged backgrounds. I ask that we would have clarification from the Minister for Education and Science and-or the Tánaiste with regard to the acceptance of the findings of the report of the special group recently put together.
I support the call that the House would commend the Garda Commissioner on the excellent handling of the siege in St. Patrick's Cathedral. I compliment the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Taoiseach and the Government for holding firm and showing strong Government. If we yielded to that type of blackmail, there would no control on immigrants or Afghans coming here. I would like to find out how they entered the country in the first instance because traffickers were involved in this situation who had no regard for health conditions or otherwise.
We should put on record that we have an excellent Garda Commissioner and Garda Síochána and commend the members of the force for their dedication and commitment to their job. It is right that this House——
Has the Senator a question?
I propose — I am sure support will be unanimous — that we send our best wishes to the Garda Commissioner and thank the Garda for its handling of this crisis.
I am concerned about the sale of Eircom.
That was a few years ago.
He is talking about Aer Lingus.
I am talking about the resale of Eircom. It will not improve current services. There has already been a reduction in services but this will be far worse. This sale is moving the package from one company to another. They have already stolen many of the assets, they have ripped off the company and now they intend to rip it off again.
In the comments on the situation in St. Patrick's Cathedral, although the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Commissioner have been widely congratulated, there has been no mention of the dean and staff of the cathedral. I compliment them on the sensitive and Christian way in which they behaved. I regret that they were fairly strongly sidelined at a particular point, which is clear from a statement in which they stated they were instructed by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to withdraw their negotiator. They felt they had reached a set of fair and equitable proposals but were told to get out of the situation by the Garda. Nevertheless, I recognise gardaí behaved extremely well and that no harm was caused to any of the people involved.
I am also glad — I am sure the Cathaoirleach will also be glad — that the institution of the guardian ad litem was called into play to help the younger people in this situation. The Cathaoirleach will probably recall that this was an amendment to the Children Bill introduced by Senator Ryan and me. No mention of that appeared in the media at the time, although it took nearly a month for us to argue the toss. This shows the way in which the work of the Seanad is sometimes ignored in the media.
Some of those involved seem to have a rather mixed background, if it is true that one of them gave as his reasons for seeking asylum the fact that he had raped and murdered four women while a member of the Taliban. It does not seem a particularly good reason for getting asylum in this country. However, they are a mixed group.
It is wrong to suggest we have a wonderful asylum appeals system. We do not. There is a case before the High Court at present in this regard. There is no publication——
Senator Norris——
There is one gentleman who is openly boasting that he has not let one person in.
If the Senator seeks a debate, we will discuss all the issues.
In that case, I will take the Cathaoirleach's good advice and seek a debate where we can make such points and also point out that, unusually, there is no publication of these decisions or the reasons for them.
The Senator has elaborated sufficiently.
I agree with Senator O'Toole that those of us who have consistently opposed the war in Iraq should find some dignified way of making this clear to Mr. Howard, who apparently has learned nothing from the lessons his Government should have learned from its disgraceful and immoral involvement in the disfoliation of the defenceless country of East Timor. Of course, that will not cause any inconvenience to this Government because it also seems to lack a sense of morality, as evidenced by the fact it can be so easily bought — bought by the Americans over Shannon and by the Chinese for financial rewards.
I call for a debate on the motion on China and Tibet, listed in our names on the Order Paper, because it is important that the House discusses the question of whether it is fashionable to have ethics in foreign policy. We have a situation where the Chinese are apparently harvesting organs from live people in concentration camps.
I think the Senator——
There is clear prima facie evidence of this and yet——
There are other Senators who wish to contribute on the Order of Business.
——our Government is responding——
The Senator has made his point adequately.
——not by criticising but by opposing giving Taiwan observer status at the UN.
On my way to the House today I witnessed a traffic jam stretching a mile from Clonee to Dublin Airport via the M50. That was not at peak time, morning or evening, but at 1 p.m. I mention this in the context of the opening of the Dublin Port tunnel and the ban on heavy goods vehicles being imposed within the city. I also mention it in the context of competitiveness.
While much has been said about our competitiveness, nothing impinges on it more than our transport system. I would like a debate on the vexed question of what will happen to the M50 when the Dublin Port tunnel opens. Until recently no discussions had taken place between the NRA and the Department on what measures might be put in place for heavy goods vehicles on the M50. We are facing gridlock.
Like other Members I would welcome a debate on Aer Lingus, including the practicality of what has happened and what will happen. Long before Eddie Hobbs mentioned the word "rip-off"——
I would prefer if the Senator did not refer to people who——
——the previous chief executive said publicly that Aer Lingus had ripped-off its customers for decades. During his tenure he reduced the average fare by €30 per passenger, a total of €560 million in a space of two years.
We cannot have a debate on that matter at this stage.
On his departure he said the same would have to be achieved. Are we really asking to return to that model, given that the State system ripped-off its customers, could not look after its pensioners and left a pension deficit, even at those exorbitant prices? How are the pensioners of that airline to be treated in the future?
Hear, hear.
I would welcome a debate on the matter and the sooner the better.
I do not know if I should have done so before now but I ask Senators to be brief from now on.
I am always brief. I agree with Senator Brian Hayes on the ending of the hunger and thirst strike at St. Patrick's Cathedral and, in particular, his remarks on the refugee appeals board. Obviously the system is in need of urgent examination. Allegedly, one member of the refugee appeals board has not allowed a single appeal, although my colleague, Senator Browne, informs me that has been corrected. Whether it has, there is a need for more transparency in the system and it must be seen to operate on the one set of criteria. I look forward to hearing the Leader's views on that issue.
Senators Brian Hayes, O'Toole and O'Meara referred to the sale of Aer Lingus, and it is time for a debate on what is best in the national interest. The Great Southern Hotels group is a case in point. It has been decided to sell the hotels. They have had expressions of interest. There is an advertised sale date by which tenders must be submitted for lots or the entirety of the Great Southern Hotels group.
Has the Senator a question?
How can the State's interest be best protected where there has been an expression of interest and where, presumably, there are tenders from other institutions of the State with adjacent land, as in the case of CIE in Galway and in Killarney? There will be other cases in regard to the airport authority. I look forward to hearing the Leader's views on that issue.
The Senator has made his point.
I call for a debate with the relevant Minister.
I am pleased to be wearing red today.
I support Senator Brian Hayes in his call for a debate on asylum application processing. What we saw last week sent out very mixed messages to the public as to the background of those involved and why it all happened. I congratulate the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on his strong stand from the outset. He gave direction and leadership and it was clear no blackmailing would be tolerated. We need that kind of leadership at such moments. It was important. I am particularly keen that we debate the important issue of asylum. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is keen to upgrade and provide clarity to the processes in the future.
I know that the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, came to this House to discuss the reform of the entry points system for third level education, particularly with regard to extending the number of medical school applicants. I have mixed feelings on how that should be approached and differ a little from the Minister. Applicants should have the basic points but we should also consider aptitude tests and interviews. The Minister might attend for another debate on this. Although she spoke in the House on the matter quite recently, there is still confusion.
While the Garda Síochána is getting the benefit of the praise for resolving the situation in St. Patrick's Cathedral last week, controversy remains regarding the Garda reserve. I understand the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will shortly attend the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights with proposals on how he hopes to resolve the controversy. Without diminishing in any way that the principle of the Garda reserve seems attractive, we need a solution to allow the Garda to be enthusiastic about it. In business, if one plans to introduce a new service or product, one does so on a trial basis. I understand there are 24 Garda divisions and six Garda regions. It seems logical that if the Garda reserve is to be tested, it would be tested in one of those for a period of time to see if it works. The Minister might consider that.
We had a very good debate last week on energy. The Leader might consider a debate on our failure once again to reach the 13% greenhouse gas emissions targets of the Kyoto Agreement. It was interesting to see figures published in Britain yesterday to show how each town is achieving its targets on a per household basis. Some are double the rate of others in their carbon dioxide emissions. This is in the hands of the individuals who live in those towns, and shows the success that is possible. This would be a useful debate. It is a question of personal responsibility, a little like tidy towns competitions. There is a little bit of shame involved and a little bit of honour if one achieves what one sets out to achieve. It would be useful for us to consider the example in Britain.
I share the concerns of Senator O'Toole and of Senator Ross, who I understand indicated he would be making a contribution along the lines of comments he wrote last week in his capacity as business editor of the Sunday Independent. He made the point that whenever there is any wobble in the equity markets, representatives of one of the major stockbrokers in this country, which in effect is working on behalf of many of the major companies, are trotted out onto the national airwaves and media to express what is conveyed as an independent, non-partisan opinion about the state of the stock market. In the context of calling for a debate on this area, Senator Ross made the valid point with regard to Eircom that it was wrong — I do not want to misquote him — that such people should be brought onto the national airwaves to influence the direction of purchasing of shares. I quibble with his assertion that not many people in Ireland would be exercised by this matter, because a significant number of people in Ireland own Vodafone shares as the result of the first sale of Eircom. I support the call for a debate on this in the context of how the markets are working and what financial regulations are in place to ensure proper information is given to the general public.
Like others, I have raised the issue of the undocumented Irish. This week, the US Senate will hopefully pass meaningful reform legislation which we trust will resolve this issue from an Irish perspective. Many Members will agree it does not help the situation to read in the media that the New York hurling team allegedly has several undocumented Irish players who might not be able to come to this country to complete the hurling championship.
The organisation in question receives substantial amounts of taxpayers' money so it is a political issue. It is time the Minister commented in this regard. It does not help the undocumented Irish in America when stories are published which allege that undocumented people are playing in a high profile hurling game and will not be able to come to this country because they will be unable to return. Surely the organisation in question should have established before the championship started whether the status of these people was legal.
That is a matter for the organisation.
Eircom has been bought for the fifth time. While it is a good deal for the management and employees, is it a good deal for the customer? Babcock & Brown has taken on a considerable debt. How will the company manage that debt and will it impact on the delivery of broadband and the telephone service? I doubt it can get any worse. If one wishes to have an Eircom telegraph pole moved, the quickest way to do it is to knock it down and telephone Eircom afterwards. That is what happens. The company cut my telephone off a week early when I was moving office and told me it would take ten days to reconnect it. It is important to have a debate on Eircom, especially from the consumer's viewpoint.
I am sure the Leader will join me in congratulating one of her constituents, Michael O'Leary, on the success of Ryanair, which was established 20 years ago today.
Congratulate him yourself.
I ruled out congratulations being extended outside the House.
It is worth noting that 20 years ago——
Have you a question for the Leader?
On the issue of Aer Lingus, which was raised by other speakers, 20 years ago it cost €750 to fly to London. This shows what can happen with privatisation. The difficulty is that when the aviation industry goes through a slump, as sometimes happens, the Government cannot invest in Aer Lingus. There must be a decision on Aer Lingus. The Government has made a mess of it.
I share Senator Ulick Burke's concern about the extra hurdle students who wish to study medicine might have to jump if an aptitude test is introduced. Why is it not introduced for other professions such as pharmacy, veterinary medicine, physiotherapy, radiography, engineering, teaching and so forth? Will the Leader arrange a debate on the concept of having aptitude tests for students who are going for the professional schools? It would be most unfair if medical students were singled out and this hurdle were put in their way when other people going for similarly high points courses would not have to jump it.
I join my colleagues in commending the church authorities, the Garda and the Government on successfully handling a difficult situation with the requisite combination of sensitivity and fairness. It was a little misleading to talk about there being a deal between the Church of Ireland and the refugees. Obviously, no church can commit the Government to actions that fall within the Government's remit. However, I am sure it was done with the best of intentions. I agree the demonstrations and counter-demonstrations did not help. There is no country where asylum and immigration policy is not handled by either the interior or justice ministries.
I welcome Prime Minister Howard's visit to this country. He represents a country with which we have close and friendly relations. It was the change of policy by his Government that paved the way for the independence of East Timor.
I wish to join with Members who have requested a debate on the future of Aer Lingus. I welcome the remarks of Members from the Progressive Democrats who have distanced themselves from the Taoiseach's comments in the other House last Wednesday. I hope the Taoiseach will use the opportunity afforded to him today to offer a more appropriate appraisal than the one he offered last Wednesday. He abused his position and parliamentary privilege through the comments he made about the former chief executive officer of Aer Lingus. I think he will correct the record today. I note the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children and Fianna Fáil Members offered several explanations on what the Taoiseach had meant to say. I am sure he will correct it today.
What is the Senator's question?
I ask the Leader for a debate on the future of Aer Lingus and whether we should proceed with its part-privatisation. Although I am in favour of part-privatisation, it is opportune to reflect on what the best course of action would be for the national airline.
I welcome the Australian Prime Minister's visit to Leinster House. Australia is a country with which we have many cultural and historical links and many thousands of Australians claim Irish ancestry.
On a lighter note, I wish to join with previous speakers on congratulating the Munster rugby team.
There are many speakers offering.
As someone, like the Cathaoirleach, who is from a GAA background, I was particularly struck——
The Senator must stick to the Order of Business. This does not arise on the Order of Business.
——by one of the Munster players wearing a Kilkenny jersey in the Millennium Stadium after the match.
I call Senator White.
I look forward to the Kilkenny hurling team doing well this year.
Last Friday in Westport, County Mayo, I presented a paper on local authority financing and its future. A serious deficit has arisen in local authority funding. In turn, local authorities make a disproportionate charge on businesses through development charges. These are making small and medium-sized businesses uncompetitive and, therefore, they find it more difficult to survive. This month, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, published a report entitled, Report of the Small Business Forum.
Is the Senator calling for a debate?
I am calling for a debate on this report. This is a serious document and I want a full debate with all Members present in the Chamber.
(Interruptions).
Okay, as many as possible instead of them fleeting in and out.
The Government Whip is in trouble.
I welcome Senator White's change of mind on this issue because we know the stealth taxes introduced by the Government are having a crippling effect on local authorities.
Senators
Hear, hear.
We will not have a debate on this issue. Has the Senator a question for the Leader?
I have a series of questions. Society has become more violent and crime-ridden on the Government's watch. Break-ins and violent incidents are an everyday occurrence. Yesterday in my local authority electoral area, there was a bank raid in Ballymahon during which bank staff and citizens were terrorised.
Has Senator Bannon a question for the Leader?
Yes I have. Policing——
No. Has Senator Bannon a question for the Leader?
I am calling for a debate on crime levels. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform must protect citizens and not give lectures on crime. People want protection.
I support the calls for a debate on Aer Lingus and Eircom. Will the Leader be advising the constituents of Longford and Westmeath to buy shares in Aer Lingus like she advised them to buy shares in Eircom?
Liar.
I also welcome the Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Howard, to the Oireachtas. On my way here today I heard an Independent Deputy say that anyone who listened to Mr. Howard in the Dáil is spineless. I am elected by the councillors of this country, and also by the people, and I want to go in and welcome a Head of Government to this country.
The Senator can have my place because I will not be going.
Turning our back on the Head of State of another country is wrong. We can go in and ask the hard questions while performing our civic duty by welcoming the Prime Minister of a friendly state to this country.
Last week I asked for the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children to come into the House to address the serious issue of transport services being withdrawn from elderly people attending dialysis and oncology treatment. Unfortunately, in the last week the service has deteriorated even further. One lady from Clifden in Galway has written to me to try to ensure she has transport available. She is 50 miles from the treatment centre, living on her own and on a medical card yet her transport has been withdrawn for hospital appointments. This is causing her serious distress. The chief executive of the Irish Kidney Association was so upset by this situation that he faxed Professor Drumm on 26 April. He only received an acknowledgement of his fax yesterday, three weeks later. This issue must be dealt with so I ask the Leader to ask the Tánaiste to come into the House immediately to address it.
On a point of order, did the Leader of this House use unparliamentary language a few moments ago towards me?
Senators
No.
I want the record to be checked.
Go and check the record.
It is a serious incident. She will not blackguard me in this House in the way the Taoiseach blackguarded the people of Ireland last week.
The record will speak for itself.
Following the Cathaoirleach's injunction, I will not mention Munster but I hope New York makes it to the Ulster final in Belfast.
That has nothing to do with the business of this House, that is for another body.
Would the Leader consider making time available to discuss No. 14 on the Order Paper, the Genealogy and Heraldry Bill 2006 put forward by Senator Ryan? Although the subject matter is not of interest to many people, the Bill is both timely and necessary and I would welcome a debate on it.
Senator Brian Hayes asked that we publicly register our thanks to the gardaí, the dean of St. Patrick's Cathedral and his staff for the way the hunger strikers' protest in the cathedral was successfully brought to a conclusion. He also raised the refugee appeals system, calling for greater transparency and asking if the system should remain within the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or if it should be located elsewhere. I have always felt that the refugee appeals system should be more transparent. The Senator also called for the Minister for Transport to attend a debate on Aer Lingus in this House. We will try to arrange that.
Senator O'Toole supported the call for a debate on Aer Lingus, including the service the consumer would get if privatisation took place. He also called for a debate on Iraq without it impinging on our welcome to Prime Minister Howard.
Senator O'Meara asked for debates on Aer Lingus and the events in St. Patrick's Cathedral, particularly with regard to the child care regulations. The Senator regularly asks about those regulations and I am following up on her requests. She also asked about the press council. The Bill will be published this term, although whether it will be debated is another matter.
Senator Minihan correctly complimented the clear leadership and direction of the Minister during the protest in St. Patrick's Cathedral. If one of the hunger strikers had inflicted serious harm on himself, we would be in a different situation today. We would all be very upset and would be pointing the finger of blame at certain quarters. A clear head was required to deal with the issue and there is no doubt that the required direction and leadership was given.
The human situation was one with which we all had sympathy because the men were very upset and traumatised. However, we know quite well that if the authorities had given in, there is no knowing where it would all end. The Senator also praised the 60,000 Irish ambassadors, but I will go no further on that.
Senator Ulick Burke raised the matter of the intake of students to medical schools. I am also worried about that issue because the leaving certificate, and the points system that emerges from it, has served the country well in terms of determining entry to various disciplines. If we make one particular discipline subject to different criteria, that opens the way for personal intervention by those who may wish to use their influence. The leaving certificate is difficult, although the Minister is working on reducing the length of some of the exams, but it is the best system for guiding entry to different disciplines. Many students work very hard and make a real effort to use the system properly to obtain their points. I will invite the Minister to the House to discuss the matter.
Senator Leyden commended the gardaí and the Garda Commissioner and also referred to Aer Lingus. Senator Norris praised the dean of the St. Patrick's Cathedral but it must be pointed out that Senator Brian Hayes also included him in his commendations. Senator Norris also referred to the Children Bill and the ad litem provision. Did Senator Norris insert that into the Bill?
Myself and Senator Ryan.
Well done. It was very effective in the overall settlement, that the minors were made wards of court. The Senator also said that we should make known our opposition to Mr. Howard. He went on to make other allegations about what the Chinese are doing.
Senator Morrissey spoke about the opening of the port tunnel and the effect it will have on the M50, as well as the gridlock he experienced today. He also called for a debate on Aer Lingus. He referred to the former CEO of the company and how effective he was and asked if we wanted to return to the previous model. He asked about the situation of the pensioners now and how it is to be resolved.
Senator Coghlan spoke about the refugee appeals board. He also called for a debate on the Great Southern Hotels, to address the advertised sale date and how we can best safeguard the land adjoining the hotels. Senator Ormonde spoke about asylum processing. She argued that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave direction and leadership. She also expressed concern about the entry criteria for medical schools.
Senator Quinn raised the matter of the Garda reserve. He argued that if one was selling a new product in a shop, one would endeavour to excite the consumers and bring them along with one. In that context, he asked if the reserve should be a pilot arrangement initially, which is an interesting suggestion. He also spoke about the Kyoto Protocol and carbon emissions and noted that in the United Kingdom, towns were picked out and details supplied of how they were fulfilling their Kyoto Protocol obligations. He asked if the same could be done here.
Senator Mooney spoke about those who influence share buying and argued that the public should be told about them. He also referred to the undocumented Irish and the US Senate debate on the reformed legislation. He also referred to the New York hurling team and wondered whether they will be able to return to Ireland for the Ulster championship final.
Senator Browne asked, with reference to Aer Lingus, if consumers would get a good deal.
I was referring to Eircom.
Senator Henry is not in favour of aptitude tests for entry to medical schools and I agree with her. It simply adds another layer on top of the leaving certificate points system. Senator Mansergh commended all involved in the events at St. Patrick's Cathedral and particularly the Church of Ireland personnel and welcomed Mr. John Howard to Ireland. In that context, the Seanad will suspend between 5 p.m. to 6.30 p.m. for those who wish to hear Mr. Howard's address to the Dáil.
Senator John Phelan condemned the Taoiseach and wants to debate Aer Lingus ——
I did not condemn him. I said he should correct the record of the House.
I think he has done that.
That is good. That is fair enough.
The Senator also welcomed the Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Howard.
Senator White spoke about local authorities and the development charges they levy on commercial interests and called for a debate on the small business report which the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, has just issued.
With regard to Senator Bannon, if I used a wrong word I apologise and withdraw it. However, the Senator's former leader, Mr. Michael Noonan, made a statement and had to withdraw it under legal redress from me. He was forced to do so and I have the correspondence to prove it. If I said a word that upset Senator Bannon, then my goodness, he is very delicate today. He often says words which upset all of us but we put up with it in the interests of the wider democracy. Senator Bannon also called for a debate on Aer Lingus and on Mr. Howard.
Senator Feighan raised the matter of cancer sufferers. He also did so last week and we endeavoured, on that occasion, to persuade the Tánaiste to come in to discuss the matter. Perhaps we should organise a wider debate on cancer, which could include Senator Feighan's concerns about ambulance services for cancer sufferers. The lady to whom the Senator referred is from Clifden, which is very far from the treatment centre, but her ambulance service has been discontinued. I suggest that Senator Feighan raise the matter on the Adjournment of the House. However, I will invite the Tánaiste to discuss the matter here.
Senator Lydon called for a debate on the Genealogy and Heraldry Bill, as proposed by Senator Ryan. Senator Ryan introduced the Bill in this House last week and I will organise for Second Stage to be held soon.
Order of Business agreed to.