Adjournment Matters

Community Education

Senator David Cullinane

I thank the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, for coming to the House to take this Adjournment matter. I draw to the Minister's attention a project which operates in County Waterford, Ballybeg community education project, which has been in place for many years. It provides a useful and worthwhile service for many young people who live in a so-called disadvantaged area in Waterford. It is a schools completion programme but offers much more. The pupils attend three and four times per week for two to three hours and avail of study support, homework assistance, tutorials for examination year students. It also provides comprehensive youth work programmes, mentoring, career guidance and healthy lifestyle based recreation. It is available for pupils ranging from fourth class in primary to sixth year at second level. The programme provides an excellent service for those young people. I pay tribute to all those associated with the project.

The project is community-based and community-managed. That has been a useful exercise and has worked well up to now. It has received funding through the Waterford schools completion programme which has, effectively, acted as a conduit, with the money coming from the Department. Recently there have been some changes to the project. Those concerned are concerned at the implications for the project and the young people who avail of it. The project is for 55 young people each year and it gives them the supports they need to remain in school. We would all accept that is a worthwhile objective, the funding for which is €60,000 per year. While that is a large sum of money, it is a small amount considering the service provided.

The Department intends to remove the autonomy from the project. Essentially, it is trying to subsume the project into the Waterford schools completion programme. That will result in the disappearance of the community-based element of the programme. The reason the project has been successful is because it is community-managed and community-run and is accountable back to the community and has a community board of management who understand the needs of the young people who live in the community. If the community element and autonomy is removed from the project, those involved would regard that as a retrograde step and ask the Government to consider it.

Given that the project comes within the remit of the overall Waterford schools completion programme, there is a concern about funding because there is no guarantee the project will be funded post September 2012. That is a matter of major concern to those who manage the project and the community individuals involved in helping to run the project and also the young people who have availed of its services. A presentation was given in the audio-visual room by those who manage the project and the community board of management. They spoke of the success of the project, how young people in the community have benefited and of the cost, both socially and economically, of removing the funding of such a project which would be immense. They are asking for two things, first, that the current status, in terms of the community-based element and project autonomy, remains and, second, for some certainty about their funding. They want to provide the service and continue with the successful programme that was put in place. That is obviously desirable both for the community and those who benefit from the programme.

I have spoken to many young people who have come through the programme and have benefited. They have gone on to do good work in their community, get jobs and have been successful but they would not have had the opportunity to do so were that programme not in place. It is a form of school completion programme and provides extended services beyond what the national school completion programme provides. It is a different type of project to that although somewhat similar. That is why the people concerned want to keep its autonomy, keep its difference and uniqueness going and have security about the funding so that they can continue.

I ask the Minister to relate these points to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, and ask her to communicate directly with the project to ensure there is a satisfactory outcome for all involved.

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter)

I thank the Senator. I am taking this Adjournment debate on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald.

Senator Cullinane has had a long involvement with community services in Waterford and I listened carefully to what he had to say. I am therefore pleased to take this opportunity to update the Seanad on the work of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs to address educational disadvantage and the provision made for the Ballybeg community education project under the school completion programme, or as it is known generally, the SCP.

I acknowledge the valuable work of Ballybeg community education project. The Department of Children and Youth Affairs recognises the contribution of the project to improving educational outcomes for children at risk of educational disadvantage. The project delivers community-based after-school support to primary and post-primary students. In this respect it shares much in common with other SCP projects, including its holistic educational objectives, a local management structure and a child-centred approach to addressing local needs. It is for these reasons the Department is working to ensure that the services provided can be further consolidated and enhanced within the SCP, under the DEIS framework.

The Government is committed to supporting the educational attainment of children and young people from disadvantaged communities through a variety of formal and informal educational support services. The Department's recently published statement of strategy defines its vision, values and objectives and explains how it will lead the effort to improve outcomes for children and young people. In this regard the Department of Children and Youth Affairs is working strategically to co-ordinate and consolidate its programmes, maximise efficiencies and ensure it works from an evidence base in the interests of children and young people. This involves examining existing services within communities to maximise synergies and efficiencies while, at the same time, minimising the potential for overlap among services which have, in essence, the same objectives.

It is in this context that officials have communicated the requirement to achieve a greater level of local service integration to a range of local projects funded under the SCP, including those in Waterford city. Similarly, officials of the Department have also recently met with the providers of services under the special projects for youth scheme, or SPY, in Waterford. Providers were encouraged to examine their provision of services to ensure the optimum use of the available resources.

As the Senator will be aware, the comprehensive expenditure report identified the requirement for savings of 6.5% per annum over the period 2012-14 in the SCP. As a first step towards identifying efficiencies and other necessary reforms, the Department is working with the National Educational Welfare Board, NEWB, and the Department of Education and Skills to complete a review of the programme this year. This review will enhance the process of integrating all SCP initiatives. I apologise, there are so many acronyms for a broad range of items in this script. It is extraordinary how they are invented.

I return to the point I was making. This review will enhance the process of integrating all SCP initiatives within a national approach to attendance, participation and retention under the board's remit. In the present financial climate it is therefore not feasible to ring-fence funding or insulate any project from the necessary reforms. However, it is not expected that there will be any significant adjustments to the programme this year, beyond those measures already communicated to projects.

The NEWB is responsible for the operational management, development and direction of the SCP, along with the educational welfare and home-school-community liaison services. As part of this work the board is assisting projects to enhance the planning, targeting and co-ordination of services. I understand the NEWB has been in contact with projects in Waterford in this regard. The objective is to consolidate the work of local programmes and ensure that evidence-based services can continue into the future on a sustainable basis. Officials from the Department of Children and Youth Affairs have been in contact with the local co-ordinator in Ballybeg and arrangements have been made to meet the project's local management in the coming week. The Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, has requested the chief executive officer of the NEWB — I apologise, this is a serious issue and I would not like anybody to take it that I am not taking it seriously but if I confront another set of initials for an organisation I will probably collapse. They should spell out what they are talking about.

The Minister has requested the CEO of the NEWB to engage with this process to ensure a positive outcome is achieved through a structured and co-ordinated interaction. She looks forward to developments in this regard. I appreciate that Senator Cullinane's concerns in regard to this issue are serious. I will draw to the attention of the Minister the specific comments he made in the Seanad today. In so far as he has concerns about the continuation of the project, I will ensure she communicates with the Senator in that regard.

Senator David Cullinane

I thank the Minister, Deputy Shatter, for taking this Adjournment debate and for expressing his support and his intention to bring the information I provided back to the relevant Minister. Of course, in the current climate it is difficult to be asked to ring-fence funding or insulate any project but as the Minister noted, this is a serious issue. This project is providing a very worthwhile service and we have to look at the cost of removing funding from projects of this kind. If the project ceases to exist where do these young people go to get the service they have been getting up to now?

I welcome that the Department has been in contact with the local project co-ordinator and that a meeting will take place in the coming week. I hope this will amount to a good outcome for all involved.

Deputy Alan Shatter

I will ask the Minister to communicate with the Senator following that meeting so that he will be briefed as to where matters stand.

School Enrolments

An Cathaoirleach

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, to the House.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for attending. I raise a very important issue concerning which I am not sure the Department is fully apprised. The balanced patronage of our schools is a topical issue and was discussed in some detail in the Seanad yesterday. It is also an emotive issue. Equally important is the right of all parents to send their children to a school of their choice. As important, and above all of that, is the need to ensure there are sufficient places for children in our primary school system. We have had too many disasters throughout the years where there was a lack of places, including in my constituency, County Meath. Six years ago there was the so-called Laytown schools crisis and I swore that I never wanted to see the likes of that again. However, I fear it is happening in Ashbourne. I wrote about this situation to the Minister, Deputy Quinn, more than a month ago but he has not replied. I pointed out that I was only writing such a letter because of the seriousness of the situation. I have raised this matter on the Adjournment because I received no reply to my letter.

An issue has arisen in recent weeks in the town of Ashbourne where 120 parents came together at a public meeting. Most of these parents have no place for their child to begin primary school next September. Most of the parents at that meeting were campaigning for a place in a school with a Catholic ethos but there did not seem to be places in any school. It is a case of more questions than answers. They want to know will there be places for their children to begin school next September and will they be educated in a school with a Catholic ethos.

Up to now, Ashbourne had two mainstream Catholic schools and a Catholic gaelscoil. One would have thought the addition of an Educate Together and a multi-denominational gaelscoil would be the answer to the issues of school places and of diversity. However, this has not proved to be the case, according to parents. The reality is that a major flaw in the Department's approach to this issue is that no surveys have been conducted to ascertain the preferences of parents for the type of education they want. No information has been given to parents as to how the Department of Education and Skills decides the number of places required in the primary school system year on year.

I understand one of the Catholic schools applied to expand to allow children attend the school of choice but this expansion was refused by the Department. I understand some of the other schools are not happy with this expansion but it would have solved the problem and in my view, it would not have impacted on either of the two new schools proposed for Ashbourne this year.

I understand from media reports that the Minister has refused to meet Oireachtas Members from County Meath, including myself. However, this news has not been communicated to me in writing. I have had no response to correspondence from the Minister on what I regard as a very serious issue. I was heavily involved in the Laytown schools crisis and I criticised my own Government at the time in order to have the issue resolved. Therefore, when I raise a similar issue, I think it should be taken seriously in the Department because I would not raise it if I did not regard it as a serious issue.

It is a poor decision by the Minister not to meet local Oireachtas Members as it flies in the face of openness and transparency. I ask the Minister of State to confirm the Department's plans to deal with the issue of children without school places. I ask him to inform the House about the Department's policy on the ethos of schools it funds. I ask if any research has been undertaken with regard to the policy so that there is an informed choice. It is wholly unfair to force parents to send children to schools with an ethos to which they do not subscribe. Parental choice and parental support for new school patronage schemes are absolutely necessary in any new system.

As regards Catholic education, it should be noted that the increase in the Catholic population of County Meath in the period from the 2006 census to the 2011 census, is twice the overall figure for those with no religion. We should not overlook the majority when it comes to a question of choice. The Government is proposing to establish an Educate Together school and a multi-denominational gaelscoil in Ashbourne and this is to be welcomed. However, there seems to be a substantial cohort of parents, enough to make up one or two classes, who want a Catholic education for their children and this is being denied to them. In my view, this goes against the spirit of choice and diversity and respect for each and every child.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills (Deputy Ciarán Cannon)

I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn. I thank the Senator for raising the matter as it affords me the opportunity to outline to the House the current position regarding school provision in Ashbourne.

As the Senator will be aware, in June of last year the Minister announced that 20 new primary schools and 20 new post-primary schools would be established over the next few years to meet our increased demographics. Of these new schools, two primary schools were to be established in Ashbourne, one in 2011 and another in 2012 and one post-primary school was to be established in Ashbourne in 2014. The need for additional primary school provision in Ashbourne was identified through detailed analysis earned out by the forward planning section of the Department, using both enrolment data and the demographic trends in the area.

Prior to September 2011, there were three primary schools in Ashbourne town, all under Catholic patronage. During 2010 and 2011, the Department had been examining the question of increasing the number of primary school places in Ashbourne to cater for the expected increase in enrolments. As part of that consideration the Department consulted with the patron of the three Catholic schools regarding extending the capacity of those schools. The patron indicated that following local consultation in Ashbourne the consensus was that the parish should not be involved in further primary school provision in the area.

The Department then put in place an application and patron selection process for the establishment of new schools to cater for increasing demographics in Ashbourne. Applications for patronage of the new schools were received from An Foras Pátrúnachta and from Educate Together, both of which are well established national patron bodies. Following consideration of these applications, approval was given for the commencement of a new gaelscoil which opened in September 2011 and a new Educate Together school which will open in September 2012. Both patron bodies proposed to establish multi-denominational schools in response to parental wishes. Given that all existing schools in the town were Catholic in ethos, the provision of multi-denominational schools would increase diversity and parental choice in the area and approval was given for the establishment of these new schools on that basis. With the commencement of the two new primary schools in Ashbourne, there will be capacity for at least seven junior infant classes across the five schools in Ashbourne for September 2012. Five of these junior infant classes will be provided in schools with a Catholic ethos and at least two will be provided in schools with a multi-denominational ethos. Apart from significantly increased capacity in the local primary schools, the parents in Ashbourne now have greater choice than ever before in the range of primary schools available to them for their children.

Senator Thomas Byrne

The Minister of State has thrown a spanner in the works as regards the situation in Ashbourne. His response will probably cause fear in Ashbourne. At least seven streams of junior infants classes are required and the Minister of State says that at least two will be provided in schools with a multi-denominational ethos. People had understood there were at least two streams in one of the multi-denominational schools and there is also a multi-denominational gaelscoil. This response will sow complete confusion among parents and it is unacceptable. It illustrates my point that the Department does not seem to know what it is doing. The Minister of State has not answered my question as to whether there are sufficient places in Ashbourne. In fact, he has cast doubt on whether there will be sufficient places and he has not provided any information as to how it was decided that parental choice would be expressed in the provision of these two schools. In my opinion, the Educate Together and multi-denominational school are required because there will be a demand for such schools and this is also the case with regard to the multi-denominational gaelscoil. However, there is no doubt there is a demand for more Catholic education but the reply does not deal with this fact. I ask if the Department knows what it is doing with regard to Ashbourne.

I advised the Minister in writing one month ago that he should take this situation very seriously or he would have another Laytown on his hands. It does not seem to me that he is taking it seriously. I do not want to have children without school places in September and this situation needs to be clarified as soon as possible by means of a public statement from the Minister.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The Senator seeks clarification regarding the statement which I read on behalf of the Minister. Is it the case that seven junior infants classes will not sufficiently cater for the group of young children entering primary school for the first time in Ashbourne this year? Is it the case that there will be a requirement for more than seven junior infants classes?

Senator Thomas Byrne

I am not convinced that the research has been done to make that absolutely certain. I attended a meeting of 120 parents and most of them did not have a place for their child for this September. We were informed by the representative of Educate Together who is doing great work and who also attended the meeting that they had allocated 30 places and they expected to open another classroom. My point is that nobody had any certainty nor does the reply read by the Minister of State provide certainty. I do not know the exact number of places required but it seems neither does the Department and this is worrying.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The Department uses existing enrolment and the demographic data gained through the GIS system using DSP records. This will show the number of children of varying ages from zero to school-going age. The Department uses this data to plan for primary school provision and also for post-primary provision in the area. I can only conclude that the Department has used that data to determine what is sufficient capacity in junior infants classes across Ashbourne next September and that it will have apportioned those places across the whole school-going population in order to serve the needs of those who wish to attend schools with a Catholic ethos and those who wish to attend schools with a multi-denominational ethos. If the Senator is saying that in his opinion more children will turn up than can be accommodated in the seven infant classes last year, I am willing to take on board that concern on his behalf and seek clarification from the forward planning unit.

Senator Thomas Byrne

The Minister of State should not forget the second issue, that of patronage, which is very important for many parents.

The Seanad adjourned at 6.40 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 3 May 2012.

Seanad Éireann debate - Wednesday, 2 May 2012