Tá fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Senator Byrne has four minutes to outline her case.
Commencement Matters
Pyrite Remediation Programme
I thank the Cathaoirleach. I welcome the Minister of State here today and thank him for coming to discuss such an important issue. The reason I tabled a Commencement matter seeking Limerick to be included in the pyrite remediation scheme is because I wrote to the board that deals with pyrite, seeking Limerick to be included in the scheme, but, unfortunately, I was told that the scheme only applies to Leinster and the greater Leinster area, including Meath, Louth and Dublin. I know a lady who lives in a house with pyrite, and there are a number of similar houses alongside her. Three years ago she had a problem with her house. She approached her insurance company, which sent an assessor to her house, but that was the end of the matter. She then got an independent assessor to check her house who diagnosed pyrite and other problems. She has been told by the pyrite board that she cannot be considered for the scheme as her house is not located in the greater Leinster area or in Dublin. Unfortunately, as she does not live in the Leinster area or greater Dublin area, she does not qualify for the tax relief that applies to the local property tax, LPT, either.
The pyrite remediation scheme needs to be broadened as other areas of the country have pyrite. I would like to acknowledge the fact that my colleague, Senator Mulherin, has raised the pyrite issue as it occurs in Mayo and Donegal. The problem of pyrite occurs in other places around the country and is not just confined to Dublin and the greater Dublin region. I am interested in hearing what the Minister of State has to say on the matter.
I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I will speak on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy English. I am substituting for him as he must attend the Dáil to answer oral parliamentary questions.
I wish to clarify that the Pyrite Resolution Act 2013 provided the statutory framework for the establishment of the Pyrite Resolution Board and for the making of a pyrite remediation scheme. However, the provisions of the Act only apply to dwellings affected by significant damage attributable to pyrite heave consequent on the presence of reactive pyrite in the sub-floor hardcore material and not to damage arising in other circumstances.
Under the Building Control Acts 1990 to 2014, primary responsibility for compliance with the requirements of the building regulations rests with the designers, builders and owners of the buildings. Enforcement of the building regulations is a matter for the 31 local building control authorities. They have extensive powers of inspection and investigation under the Acts. In general, building defects are matters for resolution between the contracting parties involved, that is, the home owner, the builder, the developer and-or their respective insurers, structural guarantee or warranty scheme.
Section 13(5) of the Pyrite Resolution Act does provide that the pyrite remediation scheme may, subject to the approval of the Minister of State, Deputy English, be amended, replaced or revoked by the Pyrite Resolution Board. As matters currently stand, the position is that the scheme is based on the information that was available to the board at the time of its adoption in February 2014, having regard to the details set out in the report of the pyrite panel, dated July 2012, although the scheme was subsequently amended in February 2015 in the light of relevant information that emerged in the local authority areas of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown and South Dublin with regard to pyritic heave in a small number of housing developments, that is, one development in each of the two local authority areas.
Any proposal to amend the scheme is, in the first instance, a matter for the Pyrite Resolution Board and any such proposal would require detailed consideration of the evidence. The recommendations of the pyrite panel that informed the establishment of the pyrite remediation scheme were premised on a number of pertinent factors. The Minister of State, Deputy English, supports the view that similar factors would need to be examined by the Pyrite Resolution Board in advance of extending the scheme to other areas given the scheme is one of last resort.
At a minimum, to consider the appropriateness or otherwise of amending the scheme, I understand that the board would require a report addressing the following information: the extent and severity of damage to dwellings in the Limerick city and county council area caused by pyritic heave in the sub-floor hardcore; verification, if available, that the damage has been caused by pyrite; the background to the occurrence of the damage; details of any structural warranty policies for the dwellings; the history of the estate's construction, numbers, type of dwellings, etc.; the source of the hardcore supplied to the dwellings in the estate; and any supporting geological assessments. In addition, the board may also make such further inquiries as it considers necessary to assist it in considering the matter. In this regard, it would be advisable for the residents to confirm the nature of the pyrite problems in the area, for example, to identify whether the problems stem from reactive pyrite in the sub-floor hardcore material that has given rise to pyritic heave and, consequently, significant pyritic damage.
If that is the case, then it is open to the residents concerned to contact the Pyrite Resolution Board regarding the submission of a report, as I have suggested. Contact details for the board are available on its website, www.pyriteboard.ie.
I thank the Minister of State very much for his reply. We have been in contact with the Pyrite Resolution Board, but it does not seem to want to engage. It is very firm regarding the fact the scheme applies within Leinster and the greater Dublin area. Perhaps we should write to the Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy English, as well. Perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, can bring the matter to the attention of his colleague. We have contacted the board but it just does not seem to engage if an issue arising relates to a location outside the area to which I refer. However, we will write to the board and forward a copy to the Minister of State, Deputy English.
Fire Safety
The tragedy at Grenfell Tower was terrible, particularly in the context of the number of lives lost. We must learn lessons from what happened in London. There is a drive, especially under this Government's policy, towards higher-density and high-rise accommodation. In many instances, I do not disagree with that policy. However, we need to ensure that the necessary infrastructure is in place to allow a response to take place if a fire were to break out. The study that was conducted identified 262 multi-storey residential buildings that have similar forms of cladding to that used at Grenfell Tower. Approximately 90 of these are residential buildings. Do fire stations know whether such buildings are located in the areas for which they are responsible? This is basic knowledge they should possess.
The London Fire Brigade has changed its operating methods, that is, its pre-determined attendance. For the purposes of the pre-determined attendance, a high-rise is a building of six storeys or more or a height of over 18 m. The London Fire Brigade's pre-determined response to a fire in a high-rise called for four fire appliances, with one having high-reach capability. This has now been changed to five appliances, one of which must have high-reach capability. Irish fire brigades are still sending only three fire appliances - one with high-reach capability - to incidents. The position in this regard to needs to change quickly.
Following the fire, the London Fire Brigade ordered new aerial appliances. There are three aerial appliances in Dublin, nearly all of them second-hand. Dún Laoghaire, where high-rise development has become popular, has an aerial appliance. It is a second-hand appliance and, according to my information, it is currently off the road. If a fire were to break out at a six-storey building in the Dún Laoghaire area, it would have to be attended by one of the high-reach appliances from Tara Street or Donnybrook. That is not acceptable. If we are driving forward with the development of high-rise buildings, we must ensure that the emergency services and first responders have the equipment necessary to make the interventions that save lives. Such equipment would also protect the fire service personnel in attendance.
During the inspection relating to the study that was conducted, I understand that no fire authority actually entered the buildings themselves when they carried out the assessment of the cladding. They were actually drive-by assessments whereby the engineers viewed buildings from the outside and then moved on. When we know these buildings constitute a risk, we have a responsibility to ensure that the residents know that the internal responses in the building are up to standards. Until remedial work is carried out, these buildings obviously carry a higher risk and drive-by inspections are certainly not appropriate.
I am also concerned about planning. I am concentrating on the Dublin area because over 60% of all our high-rise buildings are concentrated there. From Balbriggan to Adamstown, there are real resource problems in the context of responding to fires should they break out. In Balbriggan, there is only one tender that could serve as a high-rise appliance within six minutes. Residents would have to wait for fire trucks to arrive from Phibsborough and elsewhere in order for a fire in a high-rise to be dealt with safely.
The other issue about which I am concerned relates to whether people should stay or go. This was one of the primary reasons for the high loss of life at Grenfell Tower. There was an instruction for high-rise buildings that people on upper storeys should stay rather than evacuate. Have we reassessed the position in this regard? In many cases, our building regulations refer to passive controls. In other words, the structure will contain the fire and allow the firefighters to deal with it safely, while residents or office workers could remain on the higher floors. Has there been a reappraisal of whether building users should stay or leave? Can the Minister of State provide an update on some of these matters?
As a result of the fact that he is taking parliamentary questions in the Dáil, the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, cannot be here. I am taking this matter on his behalf.
On 27 June 2017, in response to the Grenfell Tower tragedy and in recognition of fears expressed in the context of fire safety, the Minister tasked his Department's national directorate for fire and emergency management with co-ordinating a high-level task force to lead a reappraisal of fire safety in Ireland. The task force was requested to oversee and report on a number of initial steps, and to urgently consider any potential life safety issues and appropriate responses. The work of the task force involves reviewing and reappraising existing arrangements and systems for fire safety and related issues which impact on fire safety in Ireland. The task force held its first meeting on 12 July and has met seven times since, most recently on 21 November. Drafting of an interim report continues, with a view to it being submitted to the Minister in early January. A further report setting out additional proposals for the Minister's consideration is proposed later next year.
As mentioned, in addition to establishing the task force, the Minister requested that a number of immediate initial actions be taken. Local authorities were asked to review their multi-storey social housing buildings to ensure that all early-warning systems, including fire alarm and detection systems, emergency lighting and means of escape are in place and fully functional. They were asked to revert to the Department with an assessment of current compliance with these lifesaving measures, as well as time-bound plans to address any issues identified. I understand that the Department has received responses from all local authorities, which have been working to address a small number of cases where issues were identified.
The fire authorities were also asked to identify buildings of more than six storeys or over 18 m in height that are fitted with external cladding systems. Where such buildings were identified, fire authorities were requested to consider using their powers to require the persons having control over the premises to carry out fire safety assessments. Specifically with regard to cladding on buildings, the task force set up a subgroup to consider fire safety issues arising from cladding systems, and to prepare guidance on the fire safety assessments required by fire authorities to assist building owners, their professional advisers and the fire services. The subgroup held its first meeting on 3 October and has met on four occasions since. On foot of this work, the preparation of the guidance is at an advanced stage. It is expected that this will be issued shortly. The Senator raised the question of whether building users should stay or go. That issue will most probably be dealt with in the guidance. I will inquire as to whether it has been included.
As already indicated, the task force expects to be in a position to submit an interim report to the Minister in January. It will then move on to the following phase of its work, with a view to completing a further report for the Minister's consideration later next year. Needless to say, in carrying out its work, the task force is taking into account information and developments arising in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower tragedy. The Senator and the House can rest assured that the task force's work will continue to be accorded the highest priority by both the Minister and the Department's national directorate for fire and emergency management.
I thank the Minister of State. Maybe he could ask the officials to actually respond to the particular questions I raised in the first instance. I ask them to comment on the 91 residential buildings that were identified as having cladding similar to that used on Grenfell Tower. Is there a register in the fire stations so that the fire services actually know where those buildings are and do not attend calls blindly?
I refer again to the high-lift tenders in the Dublin area, which are mainly second-hand. As I outlined, one of those servicing a substantial area of Dublin is off the road as we speak this morning.
Is funding being provided to ensure that the proper equipment is in place to respond to such incidents, especially within the Dublin area? This is applicable to Cork, Limerick and Galway as well where there are also high rise buildings.
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, and I am sure he will get the relevant information for Senator Humphreys.
Occupational First Aid
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor. I am in this post because the Cathaoirleach cannot be here.
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, to the House. This is the first time I have had the pleasure of welcoming her to this House. I hope she is settling into her new portfolio.
The issue that I am raising is quite literally a matter of life and death. I was recently made aware by Councillor Melissa O’Neill from Kilkenny of the first aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation, CPR, campaign, which already has 7,000 signatures. The campaign has been adopted by the health forum in ten local authorities and has the support of many Members of the Oireachtas. It was started by a Kilkenny mother whose daughter, Isabelle, has apnoea and can stop breathing at any time. She attends primary school and her mother wants all physically able teachers and special needs assistants, SNAs, to be trained to respond, not just to her condition but to the thousands of children and young adults who may require lifesaving first aid in schools.
As a former principal, the Minister of State will know what I am talking about. Some schools have trained first responders but this is ad hoc and is not compulsory for every school. I am asking that the Minister of State make it compulsory for every school to have teachers and SNAs fully trained in first aid and to provide the necessary funding. Otherwise this will not happen.
In making my case, I am already anticipating the Minister of State's response. She may say that it is the responsibility of boards of management and not the Department under the provisions of the Education Act 1998 to be responsible for the care and safety of all students in schools. Of course this is the case and I am not disputing this. However, without compulsory first aid training and without the funding to provide it, there will be no standardised practice in schools. The Minister of State will have to take the lead on this. Otherwise we will just go around in circles like we have done with the weight of school bags, with the whole thing falling between stools of responsibility and being left up to the school or the board of management and no standardised practice across schools. In terms of the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Applications) Regulations 2007, which set out the first aid requirements for workplaces, can the Minister of State explain how these apply to pupils who are not employees and, as such, fall into a completely different category?
Schools do a fantastic job in working in conjunction with parents, teachers and children to put preventive measures in place and to lessen the possibility of any difficulties arising if a student suffers from an illness. SNAs who work with children who have medical conditions do outstanding work. However, what I am asking for is not just for children with special conditions, it is for a high level of preparedness should any incident occur. The degree of care and supervision which must be exercised by those in charge of schools has been described in a number of legal cases as, “a duty to exercise the care which a careful parent would exercise for the protection of his or her own children". In the case of children who have pre-identified medical conditions or a choking incident, the in loco parentis rule still applies. However, without the necessary training it may be impossible for teachers or SNAs to respond properly, particularly in cases where time is of the essence.
I am well aware that the Department cannot direct any member of the board of management or the teaching staff of the school to administer medical treatment which is normally carried out by medical professionals such as doctors and nurses. What we are asking for, however, is training in treatment that can be carried out by someone who is not a medical professional but who has the training and the necessary skills. They do not have to be a nurse or doctor to do this, so that is a moot point. Among teachers and SNAs there is a great willingness to undertake this training and I have been reliably told that in addition to the Red Cross, there are plenty of reputable first aid trainers out there to do the work. The Red Cross is in the schools already working with the children. The training of teachers and SNAs would be the logical next step as the Red Cross is already providing paediatric first aid training to child care workers around Ireland.
Senator Craughwell, I remind you of the time. You are over the four minutes.
I am just about to finish. There are loads of options. Training courses could also be offered as part of in-service training and other forms of continuous professional development or better still why not have first aid and CPR included in the curriculum in the higher diploma or professional master of education in primary education, PME, in the teacher training colleges? This is the most logical and cost-effective option. Some trainee teachers have told me they can take first aid but have to pay for it themselves. Personally, I think to expect already hard-pressed students to do external first aid courses out of their own pockets is neither fair nor feasible. The skill to save a pupil’s life should not be left to chance and should not be discretionary. It should be top priority.
One of the greatest features of our education system is that children-----
Senator Craughwell, could you finish up?
I am just finished. Children with even complex medical conditions can attend school with their peers but our duty of care must be commensurate with their needs.
I thank the Minister of State for giving me the time today and I would ask that she and her officials give this serious consideration. I am sorry for going over time.
That is not a problem. That was five minutes.
I thank Senator Craughwell for raising this issue and for welcoming me here as Minister of State at the Department of Education with special responsibility for higher education. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, has asked me to take this Commencement matter.
The Senator did mention I was a former school principal and yes our teachers would have been trained up voluntarily if they wanted to be, as would SNAs. That would have happened in the school and I am very aware that it does happen regularly but it is an ad hoc system.
The Department promotes the quality of teaching and learning through the provision of quality teacher training programmes, continuing professional development and support for principals and teachers in a range of pedagogical, curricular and educational areas. This is done through initial teacher education programmes, education centres and support services for teachers at primary and post-primary level.
Under the provisions of the Education Act 1998, the board of management is the body charged with the direct governance of a school. The board of management of each school is responsible for the care and safety of all of the students in its school and care and safety should be at the centre of all policy and practices. Schools are required to take all reasonable precautions to provide training for teachers to ensure the safety and welfare of their pupils. The Health and Safety Authority, HSA, advises that, by law, employers and those who control workplaces to any extent, must identify hazards in the workplaces under their control and assess the risk presented by the hazards.
Employers must write down the risks and what to do about them. This is known as risk assessment. The aim of risk assessment is to reduce the risk of injury and illness associated with work. The risk assessment will form part of the employer’s safety statement.
The safety, health and welfare at work general application regulations 2007 set out the first aid requirements for workplaces as follows:
Employers have a duty to provide first-aid equipment at all places of work where working conditions require it. Depending on the size or specific hazard (or both) of the place of work, trained occupational first-aiders must also be provided. Apart from some exceptions, first-aid rooms must be provided where appropriate. Information must also be provided to employees as regards the first-aid facilities and arrangements in place.
It is important that the school management authority requests parents to ensure that the school is made aware of any medical condition suffered by any student attending. Where the school is aware of potential difficulties that may arise as a consequence of a medical condition suffered by one or more students, it may be possible for the management authorities, working in conjunction with parents, teachers and children, to put preventative measures in place to lessen the possibility of any difficulties arising or to ensure that if a student suffers from an illness requiring, for example, the administration of medication, appropriate treatment is available.
The administration of medicines in primary schools is the subject of an agreement between the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO, and the organisation representing school management at primary level. While this agreement specifies that no teacher can be required to administer medicine or drugs to pupils, it also sets out procedures that must be followed where teachers agree to do so. The position is that either the parents of the child make themselves available to administer medication as required or, where they wish the staff in the school to administer it, they should indemnify the school.. The Department cannot direct any member of the board of management or the teaching staff of a school to administer medical treatment to pupils, including actions or procedures which are normally carried out by medical professionals such as doctors and nurses. The organisation of training in the administration of medicines is a matter for the board of management and my Department has no plans for future training programmes in this area.
Where a child requires adult assistance in the administration of medicine and where the extent of assistance required would overly disrupt normal teaching time, SNA support may be allocated for this purpose. It is a matter for the board of management to ensure that SNAs are in a position to effectively meet the care needs of students for whom SNA support has been allocated in the school when appointing an SNA. Where specific training is required, the board of management should liaise with the Health Service Executive, HSE, in order to ensure that the HSE provides guidance and training that enables the SNA to meet the care needs of the pupil in an appropriate manner. It is a matter for individual school authorities to make such arrangements locally.
It is my Department’s experience that once the matter has been discussed in detail with the board of management and staff of a school and once all parties are clear as to the procedures to be followed, arrangements can normally be made to assist the administration of first aid or medicine. The NCSE is currently undertaking a comprehensive review of the SNA scheme. In response to a progress report from the NCSE on the comprehensive assessment, the NCSE was requested to establish a working group comprising relevant stakeholders to assist in proposing a better model for providing care supports so as to provide better outcomes for students with special educational needs who have additional care needs. This working group, which is chaired by Mr. Eamon Stack, chairperson of the NCSE, has commenced its work. That work will run in tandem with the completion of the overall comprehensive review of the SNA scheme. It is intended that the reports of the working group and of the review will be completed by the end of March 2018.
It comes as no surprise to me that in her former role as a school principal, the Minister of State had first aid facilities on site. That is a hallmark of the person she was, and she ran an excellent school in her time. However, the arrangements across the country are ad hoc. I am referring here to basic first aid, not to the administration of medicine. I ask the Minister of State to revert to the Minister and ask him to examine this area. It would be simple enough to provide basic first aid training as part of the teacher training programme. We are not looking for serious medical intervention here, but basic first aid.
I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House this morning. No doubt, we will engage again at some stage.
I am happy to relay the Senator's views to the Minister.