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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 May 2023

Vol. 293 No. 13

Address to Seanad Éireann by Ms Mairead McGuinness, European Commissioner

Thar ceann Sheanad Éireann, is cúis mhór áthais dom fáilte chroíúil a chur roimh Mairead McGuinness, an Coimisinéir Eorpach um Sheirbhísí Airgeadais, Cobhsaíocht Airgeadais, agus Aontas na Margaí Caipitil. On behalf of Seanad Éireann, I am delighted to extend a céad míle fáilte to Ms Mairead McGuinness, European Commissioner for Financial Services, Financial Stability and Capital Markets Union. Before joining the Commission in October 2020, Ms McGuinness was the First Vice-President of the European Parliament from 2017 to 2020. She served as an MEP for Ireland for 15 years, between 2004 and 2020, making her Ireland's longest serving MEP.

Today is Europe Day and Commissioner McGuinness is honouring us by her presence today. We are delighted that she is with us on this very important day celebrating 50 years of Irish membership of the European Union. In 1972, tomorrow, on 10 May, 83% of Irish people voted "Yes" to join the European community. Fifty-one years later we maintain that high level of confidence in the EU and we are committed to enhancing our standing as a constructive partner in the Union at the very heart of it. When H. E. Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, addressed both Houses of the Oireachtas in December last year, she reminded us that the exact same percentage of people in Ireland - 83% - remain optimistic about the future of the Union.

Being part of the European Union gives Ireland a powerful global voice. Our membership enables us to stand with the hundreds of millions of Europeans who share our commitment to democracy and to peace. In the course of the past half century Ireland had benefited. Our membership, indeed, has been so transformative for our people and for our country. The opportunities presented to us have been phenomenal with the freedom to trade, travel, study and work across the EU, which have benefited generations of Irish people both young and old. EU policy, legislation and funding have helped to bring improvements to many realms of Irish life, including our economy, agriculture, the environment, equality and human rights, education and training, research and innovation, travel and tourism.

In the recent uncertain and complex economic environment, Ireland has benefited from being part of a strong and stable European Union. Central to the strength and stability of the Union is the strength and stability of the financial sector. As Commissioner McGuinness will have noted, her financial services portfolio cuts across all areas of policy and enables the Union to continue to deliver for people, society and the environment.

Under the Commissioner's leadership the European Union is working to enhance the regulation and supervision of financial institutions. The implementation of the banking union will ensure that EU banks are stronger and better supervised so they can support the wider economy and people. This will ensure that banks are better capitalised and risks are better controlled. The Commissioner is also leading the delivery of the capital markets union, which aims to develop a more diversified financial system that complements bank financing with developed capital markets. This will help to ensure the Single Market will function as efficiently as possible so that businesses can take full advantage. The aim is to create a more inclusive and resilient economy that benefits all members, not least Ireland.

The EU is Ireland's most important trading bloc. A total of 40% of our exports go to fellow member states and Irish businesses have access to a market of more than 447 million people. Ireland values the ongoing efforts of the European Commission to ensure that European financial markets are properly regulated and supervised. We are all aware of the enormous impact that financial regulation can bring to the lives of our citizens, society and environment.

Commissioner McGuinness has a wide and complex portfolio that includes insurance and pension funds, sustainable finance, digital finance, consumer finance and payments, financial crime and global consistency in regulation. We are fortunate that Europe has a strong and capable leader in Commissioner McGuinness in this particular niche market of financial services. As we begin our sixth decade as part of the European Union, I share the confidence of my fellow citizens that membership of the European Union will continue to have a very positive impact on our economy and society. I wish the Commissioner every success in her term and it gives me great pleasure to ask Commissioner Mairead McGuinness to address Seanad Éireann.

Ms Mairead McGuinness

Go raibh míle maith agat. I was here ten years ago so I must have been okay because I have been invited back. I am glad to be here on this very important day. We are marking Europe Day. I spent yesterday morning going back to the classroom. I visited all of the classes in three schools. What struck me was that all of the children were born after we voted to join the European Union. They know no different than being part of Europe but it is still important for them to understand history.

I will start today with a little of that history. It is important to recall that prior to a movement towards a European economic community we had war. We had horrible war. Then we had the wisdom of a former French foreign minister, Robert Schuman. He had a vision of uniting Europe to make war between Germany and France in his words not merely unthinkable but materially impossible. He also said "Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity". This is worth recalling after 50 years of membership because it is not yet complete. This morning I want to reflect briefly on the achievements and setbacks, where we stand today and, more importantly in this more fragmented world, where we are heading towards.

A resounding 83% of Irish voters said "Yes" in the referendum to join the EEC. As the Cathaoirleach mentioned, the 51st anniversary of that vote will be marked tomorrow. Over time, Europe has developed step by step. These steps have not always been in a forward direction but we have made great progress. What has moved for Ireland is our place in Europe. We were on the periphery. We were a relatively poor country economically on the edge of Europe. Now we are a much more prosperous country at the very heart of the EU. We are one of the older member states. We probably think we are still young but we are old in terms of membership. We were part of the EEC's very first expansion beyond the original six members.

For many years we were a net beneficiary. Today, because of how we have grown and prospered, Ireland is a net contributor to the European Union's budget. In the early 1970s our economy was relatively underdeveloped. We had a very strong and solid agriculture and agri-food sector but a small number of other industries. We were very dependent for trade on the UK, our closest neighbour. If we look at social issues, divorce, contraception and homosexuality were not then legal in Ireland. We still had the marriage bar that excluded many women from working after they got married.

It is also important to recall in these times of peace in Northern Ireland that the Troubles at that time were at their very height. Ireland joined with the United Kingdom and Denmark all those years ago, yet seven years ago the UK voted to leave the EU. When I wrote down seven years, it shocked me because it feels like yesterday. It is true that Brexit is just another chapter in the EU story. It did not actually rupture the EU but instead it provided an urgency about strengthening our vows, which is what happened. Ireland very much appreciated at that post-Brexit time the value of EU solidarity that Robert Schuman talked about in the 1950s. In many debates in the European Parliament on the topic of Brexit, it was really impressive to listen to members from other counties such as Germany, Croatia and Portugal, to mention a few, in the chambers in Strasbourg and Brussels speaking about the issues impacting Ireland and Northern Ireland. I thought it was an important moment in European integration, which frankly we need more of, when members spoke of the needs of other member states. Let us look to Denmark. In the 1970s, Denmark, like the rest of the world, faced an oil crisis but it was clever and strategic because it invested significantly in wind energy. Would we all had done at that stage because we are now trying to ramp up investment in renewable energy production at speed.

I wish now to look to the present, the past 50 years and where we are now. The economy is modern and evolving and there is strong growth, high-tech skill sectors and global exports, including of course to the Single Market. We also have free-flowing inward investment. The Cathaoirleach rightly referenced that the European Single Market is what really drove our economy because of the freedoms it provided for. Equally, the social and civil fabric of society changed dramatically. EU law on gender equality helped bring an end to the marriage bar and supported moves towards equal pay and parental leave but this is not yet finished business. We still have work to do. There were setbacks. As I looked through the books and some of the films rather than video, we all of a certain age remember beef mountains - younger Members may not. There were food scares and, of course, the financial and sovereign debt crisis. We dealt with Covid, Brexit and now with Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. With each of these crises, in the past or more recently, there was a realisation that a common European response was the only way to deal with them. In the food sector, for example, the European Food Safety Authority, emerged after a series of quite problematic food scares. Today, Europe leads in rapid alert systems to detect and stop problems in the food chain with speed.

Brexit was an existential crisis for Europe. It posed the question about the fact that a big member state would leave. The EU 27 pulled together. We are very united in finding a way forward. We reached the withdrawal agreement and then the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. More recently, after many difficult setbacks, there was the Windsor Framework. This was all about recognising the unique situation of Northern Ireland and wanting to make sure there were no borders on the island of Ireland. Now, Northern Ireland remains in the Single Market. The Windsor Framework also allows the EU and UK to leave behind the worst days post-Brexit, which were very difficult days in the relationship. Our reaction to Covid in the beginning was very difficult and divided and then there was a realisation that we had to act together and have a common European response, whether it came to protective equipment, vaccines or indeed the app on our phones to allow us to travel. What emerged from that crisis was that public health, which was for member states only, is now regarded as an area of EU competence, giving the Commission more responsibility for policy. We see that over time that while member states have policy areas they hold dearly, when there is a crisis bigger than any one can handle alone, there is a realisation that Europe needs to do it at the level of the European Union. Our reaction to the illegal invasion by Russia of Ukraine was to show very strong solidarity with the people of Ukraine.

If one looks at what happened during the global financial crisis, it is very clear that this still has a bitter taste for many families and business, even though it was some time ago. However, we learned hard lessons from that crisis. Today, we have a much stronger eye on and supervision of the banking and pensions system, and the securities markets, with all of the authorities we have established. We also have the European Systemic Risk Board, which is for oversight of the entire EU financial system. We started on our work to complete banking union. This is about providing a strong European banking system to serve our economy and society. Clearly, we need the capacity of public authorities to respond effectively if and when a bank fails.

My role is around the financial system. The title is rather large but it is essentially about money. The point I make, as many Senators will in their work representing people, is that money matters. It is the backbone of our economy and society, and it matters most to those have too little of it. In my work, despite all the stuff I do on regulation and deep, technical issues, I really want us to talk more about financial awareness and financial literacy. We need to have many more money savvy citizens, particularly in an era when finance is digital. Citizens may not know everything about the detail of the financial system but if they have the confidence to ask questions about the interest rates they are being charged or the services they are being given, they will make better choices. Society, families and everyone will benefit from that. Look at the world that is evolving around crypto. Very soon, because of EU regulation, we will have a system in place to protect citizens and reduce the risk of crypto being used in money laundering. As we know, that is sadly happening today. Europe is leading on regulation.

One of the topics being debated in both Houses is the use of cash. As we all move to more digital transactions, we are seeing the use of cash decline. We are working with the European Central Bank, ECB, on a possible digital euro, a central bank digital currency. The idea here is to complement cash, not to replace it, and I am sure Senators have some thoughts on that very important topic. Sweden, which was moving ahead of most with regard to a central bank digital currency, has received a report from its parliament about maybe not rushing so fast and so far, but also recognising that there are citizens who want and should be allowed to use cash in their transactions.

We need an awful lot of investment as we move towards this climate agenda, biodiversity loss and the digitalisation of society generally. Despite 30 years of a Single Market, we do not actually have a single market in capital. It is one of the areas where we really need to make progress and we need the support of member states to do that. We are working at Commission level to create deeper capital markets because what we want to do is to provide large and small business with alternatives. At the moment, it is mainly bank financing. If and when we develop deeper capital markets, businesses will have a choice.

That is about the past and the present. Let us look to the future. I think the coming years will be decisive for the European Union for a whole host of reasons with which Senators are familiar. This is not just the climate crisis we are facing but also the related environmental challenges, such as pressure on water, soil and biodiversity. On all these areas of policy, the European Union is setting the agenda. We have the European Green Deal, which aims for climate neutrality by 2050. We are asking all areas of our economy and society to change, including ourselves. One area I spoke a lot about ten years ago, when I was on the European Parliament's Committee on Agriculture and Rural Development, was about the changes farmers are having to make or are being asked to make. It is important for us to acknowledge a few things because it is no longer the case that the Common Agricultural Policy drives agriculture. It is more about climate policy, environment and health. Change is happening. I hope I am not the first to acknowledge - I think we all have to acknowledge this - that it was public policy of the past to drain land, and we grant-aided farmers to do so, including draining bog land. It was the policy to maximise production, eking out every corner of a field to get production up and running and enlarging fields by ripping out hedgerows. I was guilty. I was on a programme some Senators will have never heard of, "Landmark" on RTÉ, and we specialised in all of the above.

Yet, my first year on "Ear to the Ground" in 1997, when that programme started, was about teaching farmers how to reverse all of that - how to plant hedgerows, maybe not draining land so much and watching the use of inputs. We have to acknowledge, because farmers need to hear this, that some of the policy choices we made were not the right ones and some of them went too far. When we are asking people to change, we need to understand where they are coming from and explain why public policy has evolved. Frankly, I do not think we have done a very good job of managing the process or giving farmers ownership of it. Many are taking action. It is under the radar but they know they have to address both climate and environmental issues. The truth is we need much more of it but the worry I have is that we will get less change if we alienate those who can make the change happen because they need encouragement, not criticism.

On top of the climate challenge, we have geopolitical challenges, as Russia's war in Ukraine continues. We had the weaponising of gas by Russia. That was a very dramatic wake-up call for Europe and we reacted - we diversified our supply chain and we filled gas stores. What is really interesting is that we were much more efficient in how we used energy, for example, we turned out the lights when we did not need them on. Small things matter. Business and industry also realised that they could be much more efficient in how they used energy. That was all to the good, even though it was learned under very harsh circumstances.

Today, the world is much more multipolar. If we look to our relationship with China, it is very much defined by Commission President Ursula von der Leyen as involving a process of de-risking and not decoupling. We do not want to cut ties but we have to look at where we might be overreliant on China and, indeed, other partners for vital components of the renewable energy sector. We then need to address that by strengthening our own capacity where that is strategically necessary. This comes under the policy of open strategic autonomy, which is very much to the fore as we face all of these challenges. We are also strengthening our relationships with other partners, like the United States and the G7, where we have taken the same steps on sanctions against Russia in response to its illegal invasion of Ukraine.

Looking to industry and the European Green Deal, we have the green deal industrial plan. Here, we are talking about making Europe the home of clean-tech and innovation on the way to net zero and about supporting EU competitiveness. Under the Swedish Presidency, there is a huge focus on competitiveness. We are doing that not only in regard to the industrial plan but also the Net-Zero Industry Act and the Critical Raw Materials Act to strengthen our supply chains in Europe. One of the things we may need to face up to is that we need to carry out more mining in Europe to meet the needs of battery production and other components of the renewable energy sector. In the past and, indeed, the present, we have tended to import and we are not really looking at what the mining sector is doing in other places, so that is going to be a challenge for us. We need to press ahead with the circular economy, that is, minimise dumping and maximise recycling.

All of this will help us to create that Europe of the future but it needs a huge amount of investment. That is why I mention capital markets union because public funding is important but it is not going to be enough. The term “sustainable finance” is certainly top of the agenda. What that essentially is about is trying to identify for investors the companies and entities that are moving towards sustainability and addressing all of the challenges of being overreliant on fossil fuels and, if they are doing harm to the environment, addressing that as well. Investors need information and companies have to provide that information. I heard reports this week that they are concerned about it. There is a lot of pressure because companies will have to do more, but there is also an opportunity for companies to show their credentials around climate and the environment. I think they will gain from that rather than be worried about the burden it places on them. We want the money to go to the right places rather than ending up in investments that will not yield the results we need.

Another area where I know the debate is beginning here is around security and defence, not traditional areas where Ireland takes strong views, but I think we are mature enough to know we have to have a conversation. I very much welcome that the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste are looking at how best to hold this very broad conversation on this topic, which is really welcome. It should be open without having already decided what the outcome should be.

We are mature enough as a society to have a conversation around defence and neutrality. We should not just think of security and defence in terms of armies and neutrality, however. Look at cybersecurity. We are all extremely vulnerable from cyberattacks. We know what happened with the HSE in 2021. The financial system, for which I am responsible, is subject every second of the day to attacks. We have to be mindful that the system needs operational resilience. We have just passed that legislation. We need to react and are reacting to the challenge and building up resilience around cybersecurity.

I mentioned the digitalisation process and the evolution of the crypto space, which a younger audience is perhaps more engaged in than in other areas. We need to manage that very well. Recently in the US we saw some instability in the banking system and, while much of it may have been due to bad management and poor risk management in particular, we should not be complacent in Europe, but rather be mindful, if there are vulnerabilities, that we need to address them. What was interesting about the US experience was the speed at which money could move. You did not need to queue outside your bank. That is the traditional picture of a bank run, but it was done by a click, probably on a mobile phone, and word spreads much quicker today by social media.

I mention artificial intelligence, not to come to any conclusions about it but because it is a new horizon which brings deep concerns and potential benefits. Every sector will be impacted, as potentially will be the legislative process. That is one to mull over.

In sensitive areas, including budget, common foreign and security policy, taxation and EU enlargement, we have to have unanimity. Everyone needs to agree at the table. A question being asked is whether unanimity should be maintained forever and for the future. What are the consequences of that? Right now, it means everyone has equal weight. If you have a problem with a policy, you can block it. That is the right of member states but it gives huge power to any member state to block a proposal against the wishes of the rest. In other areas, Ireland’s position has evolved over time, in particular in respect of corporation tax rates. As a former Member of Parliament, I defended at that time our view around tax rates on companies. It was sacrosanct and was viewed as critical to continued economic success. Our position adapted, moved and evolved because we saw there was a global effort to have an agreement around corporation tax frameworks. We recognised the need for change and realised there would not be negative consequences for the economy. It also allowed us to show solidarity with member states moving in that direction. Over 50 years, there are things that have changed utterly, things we never discussed previously, but now we realise in these policy areas, there was a need to move forward.

An area we need to talk about is the EU budget. The most frequently asked question for a Member of the European Parliament is whether there is a budget for various community activities or whatever. As Europe gets bigger in terms of policy responsibilities, the budget needs to increase, but we know many member states are reluctant to pay more into it. A significant development happened around NextGenerationEU, which was joint borrowing by Europe for the first time and was necessary to fund the recovery and build resilience after Covid.

With all those changes, it is important to continue to build a strong connection between citizens and decision-making. Senators have a responsibility, and they take that, to ensure what happens in Brussels does not stay there. Blaming Brussels for problems that are not entirely of our making is unlikely to change. That is the nature of politics. Constructive criticism has its place because it needs to be pointed out where Europe is not delivering, rather than clapping ourselves on the back 50 years later and saying all is good. We have come a great distance and achieved much but we can always do better.

As we mark 50 years of membership, we should recall with some poignancy that in Ukraine today, the President of the Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, is in Kyiv showing immense solidarity with the people of that country, who have faced horrible attacks, including overnight. We wish them strength as they continue in this struggle.

In conclusion I want to take a moment to pay tribute to the work of the Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen. She has led in enormously difficult times and taken brave decisions with Commissioners. It is extraordinary to say that she is the very first female Commission President after six decades. It is quite an extraordinary reality. As I said, she has worked tirelessly for Europe, not just dealing with problems, but also trying to look at and shape the Europe of the future. President von der Leyen leads the first gender balanced College of Commissioners ever. I firmly hope that it will not be the last because balance matters.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCoimisnéir as ucht na hóráide iontach agus laidir a thug sí inniu. I welcome to the Gallery Ms Patricia Reilly, Commissioner McGuinness's Head of Cabinet and thank her for her assistance in making today possible. I also welcome Ms Barbara Nolan who is head of the European Commission representation in Ireland. Thank you for being here today. I now call on the Leader of the House, Senator Lisa Chambers.

With the agreement of the House, I will be sharing my time with Senator Malcolm Byrne; I will take three minutes and he will have one.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome Commissioner McGuinness to the Chamber. It is a pleasure to have her here. I thank her for such a comprehensive overview not just of her extensive portfolio, but also the key issues affecting Europe and Ireland today and into the future. It is good that the Commissioner began by talking about Europe Day and the 51 years that Ireland has been a member of the European Union since the referendum in 1972, which was historic, the signing of the accession treaty in 1973 and the key and remarkable changes we have experienced in this country, socially and economically since.

The Commissioner touched on a few of those changes. Workers' and women's rights, the improvements to our environment, our water and air quality, the continued support and sustainability of agriculture are some of the transformative changes that Ireland has experienced in those 50 years. It is fair to say that as a country, we are extremely proud of what we have achieved as a member of the European Union. We are extremely proud of our position today as a very strong key member and one of the oldest members of the Union. It is a proud moment for Ireland.

The Commissioner also referred to the solidarity that we have seen in the European Union. Over the last number of years, two of the key areas have been Brexit, which has dominated our political discourse for seven years, and the war in Ukraine. These events have shown our citizens the importance of being a member of the club and the importance of unity and solidarity. For Ireland and the other smaller member states, Brexit showed that we are valued and that we are the same as any other member state and will be protected. It is no wonder that we continue to have extremely high levels of support for our membership of the European Union. It has not waned one bit since we joined over 50 years ago.

In the short time I have, I would like to touch on the Commissioner's extensive portfolio. I am sure she is aware of the domestic banking and insurance situations and issues that we are dealing with. I appreciate that in her role, the Commissioner does not have control over all these issues, but they are nonetheless very important to raise. We are now dealing with our seventh mortgage interest rate increase. This is placing huge pressures on families and households, particularly those on tracker and variable rate mortgages. We need to see increased pressure from the European Union to allow people to move to different banks, which is not being facilitated in all regards at present.

We also need to see an increase in the interest rate on savings. That is one key issue that I hope the Commissioner can take back to her colleagues at the Commission. Banking is one of the few areas where everybody wants greater integration. We want more competition and we want access to the EU market. We see citizens of other member states getting 2% or 2.5% on savings while Irish customers get less than 1%. There are now companies such as Raisin Bank Ireland offering people the option to move their savings to other European banks. If I can have one takeaway from today it is that we want a fair deal for Irish consumers in the banking sector.

I thank the Commissioner for being here today and also for her service. I would like to follow on from Senator Chambers's comments and refer to some of the Commissioner's remarks about the future. Along with many of my colleagues, I believe that the EU Artificial Intelligence Act will perhaps be the most important piece of legislation this decade. Specifically within the Commissioner's brief, there are obviously major opportunities regarding being able to improve efficiency and to reduce costs.

However, equally, there are serious concerns about being able to protect consumers, particularly in the area of credit scoring. I hope Commissioner McGuinness leads in that.

I welcome that the Commissioner spoke about the importance of literacy and financial literacy. If we move toward the introduction of the digital euro, we need to prepare our citizens for that as quickly as possible. In all that we do, it is essential that while we regulate, we do not stifle innovation as well. For new fintech companies, we need regulatory sandboxes at a European level.

I commend Commissioner McGuinness on all the work she is doing. She is providing real leadership. These are genuine concerns for all of our citizens. Happy Europe Day.

I welcome Commissioner McGuinness to the Seanad. We all know, and it is testament to her career, that the Commissioner is a very proud European. She has had a long and successful career in the European Parliament and now in the Commission. It is testament to her dedication and commitment to the European project. It is also a testament to her authenticity. I wish her continued success.

This year is particularly special because we are celebrating 50 years, practically my whole life, as a member of the European Economic Community. As with others, I do not know any different. I know and enjoy the successes of that membership. Being part of this European project has genuinely transformed our country economically and socially. The Ireland of 1973 would be completely unrecognisable to somebody in the Ireland of 2023, with so many positive and progressive changes coming from our membership. Today is a day to celebrate all that is good and all of the achievements since the signing of the Schuman Declaration more than 70 years ago.

We should reflect on the great diversity and the cultures, languages and traditions we enjoy across Europe. Decade after decade, we have seen how Europeans at all levels benefit from the European Union. Our citizens travel more freely, businesses have expanded easily into new markets and governments and policymakers engage, thankfully, in greater co-operation.

While we have been, for the most part, united in our diversity, as the EU motto goes, the ongoing war in Ukraine shows that the EU objective of working for peace and prosperity is as important today as it was when it was when it was founded all those years ago. Despite our many differences across the Continent, the EU has stood united in its unwavering support for Ukraine and has firmly condemned Russia’s war of aggression. We have seen hundreds of thousands - millions – of Ukrainians fleeing their homeland. They have been welcomed by families across Europe, which is lovely to see. We have tens of thousands of them living in Ireland, in every county, and they are very welcome. The support shown in acting to help our Ukrainian friends is a clear example of Irish people’s support for other Europeans. It shows that even though support for the European Union can wane from time to time, the EU is fundamentally worthwhile.

President Zelenskyy announced last week that he submitted a Bill to his Parliament to mark 9 May as an official day, Europe Day, in Ukraine. That is welcome.

I will finish by congratulating our colleague, Frances Fitzgerald, on her achievement yesterday of being announced as the 19th most effective parliamentarian in the European Parliament. I wish her continued success as well.

I am delighted to welcome Commissioner McGuinness to the Seanad, especially on Europe Day 2023. The theme of Europe Day this year is peace and unity. As the Commissioner said in her opening remarks, formed just five years after the end of the Second World War, the European Coal and Steel Community, followed by the European Economic Community and then the EU, have amounted to an extraordinary and probably the greatest peace process in European and world history.

How unthinkable that must have seemed to our parents and grandparents. Imagine the animus and enmity of 1945, just five years before Schuman and Adenauer reached their agreement. There was the liberation of concentration camps throughout Europe, such as Dachau, Auschwitz and Treblinka. It was a time of such bestial violence on a global scale throughout Europe and Asia, culminating in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How unthinkable and unimaginable at that point it must have seemed that peace, co-operation and reconciliation in Europe would be possible. However, our Irish and European grandparents had a vision for reconciliation, peace and prosperity, and it has prevailed. It is a remarkable feat of human and political ingenuity, knowing that nothing is impossible.

I am sorry to say that today in Moscow, Vladimir Putin has threatened that we in Europe and Russia have reached a turning point. A war, as he says, has been unleashed on Russia. There is no war on Russia. There is no war on the Russian people, only resistance to tyranny. The people of Ukraine are fighting for their freedom, for their very survival, and for exactly those values we hold in the European Union, namely, the freedom of assembly, self-determination, prosperity, peace and hope. These are values we may have taken for granted for some period. In the tumult of the war in Ukraine, we have so much talk about weapon systems, 155 mm artillery shells, main battle tanks from all around Europe and the United States, high mobility artillery rocket systems, HIMARS, and now there is also a threat to Europe's largest nuclear power plant at Zaporizhzhia. We must remember in the EU that our most powerful weapon against tyranny is prosperity, our values and our unity in the face of aggression, oppression and injustice. We must remember at this low point, however unimaginable it may seem, that peace is possible and it is something we should seek out. Putin will not be here forever but the people of Russia will and, hopefully, the people of the EU and Ukraine. Putin is correct that this is a turning point but not the one he refers to. It is not a change in the world order. A turning point in his failed invasion of Ukraine has been reached and in the coming weeks, Ukrainian men and women will act decisively and unambiguously in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk. As our grandparents and parents have observed, tyrants come and go. Hitler, Mussolini, Ceauescu were all seemingly impregnable. They were so-called hard men with fragile egos and brittle ambitions but they unravelled very quickly as will Putin and Lukashenko. These leaders will be relics of the 20th century. They are the very distillation of toxic patriarchal expression. In many ways, Commissioner McGuinness and her colleagues in Europe are the very opposite of what that represents. They have brought us into a dynamic 21th century.

I was six years old when Ireland entered the European Economic Community 50 years ago and my first experience of it was the litre and the metre in senior infants. In her capacity as Commissioner of financial services, I would like to point out that decimalisation helped me greatly with my communion money, which I still have. Unfortunately, the meter stick replaced the imperial 12-inch ruler and in the hands of the Christian Brothers, it was a more formidable weapon for which I have Europe to thank.

Finally, I was a guest of the Commissioner's approximately 12 years ago in Europe at a forum on economic recovery. Afterwards, I left my hotel to go for a walk and found a little café to get a takeaway coffee. When I went in, lo and behold, the Commissioner was at the back having a meal on her own. We had a brief chat and she told me that the travelling was tough and that it was tough on the family. As our longest-serving MEP, previously Vice-President of the European Parliament, and now a Commissioner, I thank her for her public service. I also thank all our other MEPs, both men and women, and all the staff and the Irish citizens in the European agencies and in the Commission who do great work. In this multipolar world, we live in a space between hope and fear but our membership of the Union makes us citizens of hope. Long may that continue.

I welcome the Commissioner to the House. We are delighted to have her here today. We do not often get to discuss European affairs and, therefore, this is a really important day for us. I was also delighted she spent so much of her time discussing climate, biodiversity and the emergency and how we are looking back over the past few decades and saying we got it wrong. Europe and Ireland got it wrong in pushing for a particular form of agriculture that actually has done our farmers a disservice when we look at what is being asked now. It is really important to point out that nobody is pointing the finger at farmers. I hear this quite a lot and it boils my blood slightly. People are playing politics with farmers' lives and with the climate. No Green Party member will ever point the finger at a farmer. What we need to do is put in place supports so that people have greener choices that ensure they have a future for their family farms.

When it comes to the climate crisis, a great deal will depend on how we invest in Europe, both publicly and privately. Several factors make it such an important time because, in a private sense, we have quite a build-up of money in Irish households, with €150 billion in deposits as of late last year. We have to ensure that does not flow into fossil fuel infrastructure.

In that respect, the EU taxonomy was a missed opportunity. Senator Higgins and I were part of a group of parliamentarians across Europe, with Greens and others from the centre left who pushed hard. In the end it is very disappointing that gas was not included or was certainly seen as sustainable. The Commissioner will be aware that the Court of Justice of the European Union will hear a case that has been filed by NGOs because of the European Commission’s refusal to remove fossil fuel gas from the sustainable finance taxonomy. I ask that she addresses that because we cannot keep steering large private and public investment in a way that is unsustainable and still say that we have a green economy and that the future of Europe is green, clean, and is bringing green jobs because that is the future.

As the Commissioner rightly pointed out, Denmark moved. Ireland has 50 GW of energy generating potential off the west coast and we are only moving now to try to realise that potential. Private and public finance is needed to move us forward.

I recognise that there has been a great deal of positive development such as the corporate sustainability due diligence directive. It is also important that the Commissioner has an opportunity to comment on that.

When I think back, and I have been in the European Union for the whole of my life, we have always had this sense that it is based on shared values and on a sense of protecting democracy. When it came to Brexit, we reaped the rewards of being part of that community. It is also important that we act as leaders now ourselves inside that community. I can see difficulties when it comes to rights going backwards for the LGBTI+ community and women. Access to contraception has reduced in some EU member states. We must ask what we are doing as a country and as Ireland as part of that community to ensure that we do not go backwards but push forward, and that we are the change within that community.

On behalf of Sinn Féin, I welcome the Commissioner. Europe Day is an opportunity to discuss the direction of travel in the European Union with regard to our social, economic and political challenges. That is admittedly a great deal to do within four minutes, or even one minute. As a 31-year-old, all I have ever known is an Ireland at the heart of the European family. Indeed, my earliest memory of the EU is probably of Ireland joining the euro in 2002. I also recall learning in primary school in 2004 about the ten European countries from central and eastern Europe who joined in what was the single biggest expansion of the Union, taking place, as it did, during Ireland’s Presidency of the European Council.

Today, a Chathaoirligh, I look forward to the further expansion of the Union to include Ukraine and Moldova, who were most recently granted candidate status for membership. I express my solidarity to the people of Ukraine who I hope are finding some belonging here in Ireland as they experience an intervening time that is surely full of very awkward disconnection. As Senator Clonan said, peace will win out and I am sure that the Ukrainian people will be free to celebrate a new life for which they have sacrificed so much.

We must also extend our principled stand to the people of Palestine.

The EU is founded on six core principles: respect for human dignity; freedom; democracy; equality; the rule of law; and respect for human rights, including those of minorities. What then of Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinian people and Israel's occupation of Palestine? Europe should be a champion, in word and deed, for the upholding of human rights, for the ending of Israel's occupation and apartheid regime, and for the building of a successful peace process in the Middle East.

Irish people are extremely positive towards the EU. Seventy-four per cent of us trust the European Union. These levels of positivity do not exist across the Continent and should not be taken for granted. In recent years, Europe has shown unwavering support to Ireland. In 2017, the European Council acknowledged that the entire territory of a new united Ireland would become part of the European Union and Irish unity pursuant to the Good Friday Agreement is a legitimate political and strategic aspiration of the European Union and member states. Of course, we need a government in Dublin which has a vision for a united Ireland but there is nothing stopping the EU from preparing for Irish unity. If you support the Good Friday Agreement, surely you cannot object to that.

Ireland is a proud and ancient European nation. I think about the monks of Ireland who set up learning centres all across this Continent and of Columbanus, who was described by Robert Schuman as having achieved "a spiritual union between the principal European countries of his time".

As Irish people, we see ourselves as equals in the Europe of today, and so we should. We should speak more honestly with our friends in Europe to mirror Europe's blind spots. This is one of the surest ways of creating change in the world. By working together, we can build a new Ireland and reinvigorate the vision of Europe as one of fairness, solidarity and equality.

I welcome the Commissioner to the House on Europe Day, as we are reflecting on the 50th anniversary of Ireland's membership.

When we look to what is valued by citizens in Ireland and why there is that trust of Europe, it is that legacy that Europe had in helping create the collective momentum for change in areas such as gender equality, workers' rights, LGBT rights and environmental protection. This is something I saw echoed - the Commissioner was part of this process too - in the future of Europe process. It is that collective work for improving and strengthening our rights, our regulations and the standards to raising the bar collectively that inspires and leads a sense of connection of citizens right across Europe to the EU. In that sense, the key to our Union's survival and, indeed, to its thriving over the next 50 years is that we continue to work together not only to focus on the economic growth or the political power that the Union might offer, but to look to the areas of climate action, social cohesion, quality of life and solidarity, both within Europe's diversity and, indeed, beyond its borders.

The Commissioner mentioned rightly some of the mistakes that had been made during austerity. It is vital that we look to those risks, including the significant risks that we are facing in areas such as fintech now, and in terms of cryptocurrency. It is important that the excitement around fintech does not blind Ireland, especially as it will be particularly exposed to concerns in relation to the regulation of cryptoassets or cryptocurrency. It is important that we have vital scrutiny in that regard.

The other mistakes that were made during that period of time from 2008 were mistakes in terms of austerity, when Europe seemed to put aside the prioritisation of rights and of collective ambition and agenda in areas such as the environment and public investment to focus on short-term fiscal targets. It is important when we introduce a new EU economic governance framework this year so that we do not make those same mistakes and that we have the space for public investment in the collective public good.

The climate crisis is one of the greatest collective challenges that we face. I echo the comments made by Senator Pauline O'Reilly. I believe an error was made. It is regrettable, and it was regressive, that gas and nuclear were included in the EU taxonomy for sustainable economic activities. It is inaccurate to label such activities as renewable or sustainable. Indeed, it has cost us time - time that we lost during austerity that we are now losing again - when we should be prioritising renewables. The volatility of gas, physically, politically and financially, has been clearly demonstrated in the time since that decision.

That decision needs to be revised so that we can focus on what we need to focus on, which is, as the Commissioner has said, investments, including public investments, that will deliver better for our collective future.

The corporate sustainability due diligence directive has the potential to play a transformative role in making sure that companies within Europe are not violating human rights and environmental legislation through their supply chains across the world. However, we are concerned to hear reports that the exclusion of certain financial services from the directive is being considered. We are also concerned about Ireland's role in respect of the exclusion of certain financial services. The directive has to be ambitious and not exclude certain sectors due to special pleading when we know the investments and practices of these sectors are extremely exposed and dangerous to human rights and the environment.

I am also aware that negotiations on the anti-money laundering directive and legislative package are under way. In line with calls from civil society groups like Oxfam and Transparency International, I urge the adoption of legislative measures that include strong provisions for stakeholder access.

I will conclude with two points. The recent establishment of Seanad Select Committee on Scrutiny of Draft EU-related Statutory Instruments is an opportunity for the Seanad to play a key role in strengthening the scrutiny of EU directives and the decisions made as to how they are transposed. Lastly, peace is the great prize of the European Union. It is not a matter of maturity to say you want to talk about security and defence. Ireland's neutrality has given us a mature voice in respect of peace. It is very important to note that being a beacon for peace and human rights, a consolidation of values and a champion for peace and rights rather than a fortress, a military bloc or a simple consolidation of power or interests is what gives Europe its strength.

I thank all Members for their contributions. It should be noted that Seanad Éireann has an important EU dimension. I congratulate our delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe led by Senator O'Loughlin and previously led by Senator Joe O'Reilly, who has served as vice president. I thank Senators Gavan and Garvey for their participation. I also congratulate Senator Conway on his appointment as the new Chairperson of the EU scrutiny committee Senator Higgins referred to.

Ms Mairead McGuinness

I am in a hurry. I thank the Members for their really excellent contributions because they will feed my mind when I go back to the Commission and discuss these topics. I want to address the matter of Senator Clonan's communion money, although he did not say how much it was, and his comments about return on investment for citizens and savers and about investments. Europeans are great savers. We stuff our money into banks and do not realise it could be better used by investing it. We will have a retail investment strategy very soon which will address all of those joined-up topics. The Senator will then be able to bring his holy communion money out and invest it wisely in that sustainable future. It sounds very simple and straightforward but it is the truth; compared with the US, we are not investors, and we need a lot of money to fuel a more sustainable economy and society. I take note of the Senator's comments on interest rates. While I do not impose them, there are clearly issues for member states to look at.

I thank Senators for raising the issue of the taxonomy because it gives me the opportunity to make a very important point. When Russia turned off the gas, if we had done nothing and gone without gas, companies would have closed, jobs would have been lost and citizens would have frozen. We had to take the very unpalatable decision to go out and seek expensive gas. Sadly, coal was also used. There are moments in a transition when you make very pragmatic decisions in order to get where you need to be. In speaking about the taxonomy, it is only fair to say that we have a great system here in that I can be challenged for my decisions. That is absolutely key and I welcome that civil society does that. However, nuclear energy and gas are included as transitional energy sources in the taxonomy. The word "transition" matters. It is a large word and it is important.

Senator Pauline O'Reilly's comments on agriculture are welcome. I know her blood boils when farmers are angry. It is important to note that there is a build-up of upset and frustration at farm level. I know it. I sometimes go home to a farm and I hear these stories.

We also need to understand that the process of change requires an approach that brings people with us. I think we are on the same side on this. We all want change in the right direction, and I think we will get there. Tomorrow morning in Strasbourg I have a very big debate on that very topic. I hope it will enlighten.

On anti-money laundering, I am going to start negotiations on Thursday in Strasbourg about our very much enhanced money laundering policies. It will bring the results that are needed.

On the issue of peace, we take it for granted. It is important for us to recognise that peace is not a given; it is built upon day by day. Europe is not easy. The reason I sometimes sit alone is because I get on well with myself. As is the case in any room, including this Chamber, there are often very frustrated debate and conversations. People need a bit of downtime, it is to be hoped without a phone, to try to distil the many challenges we face. We need to realise that if those of us who are privileged to be in chambers like the Seanad cannot work and find solutions together, the alternative can be pretty ugly. We do not want to go back to the past where there was a realisation that peace matters and we build it by working together across all of the policy areas. That is absolutely vital.

I thank Senator Doherty and other Senators for their kind remarks. I regard my job as an honour but one which carries huge responsibility. I am the only Irish person in a college of 27 but I am more than just the Irish person. I represent the European agenda and approach, and we work as a college.

I thank Senator Byrne for his work on the digital euro because he brought this conversation to Ireland. We need more of it. We are trying to make sure that the euro is fit for the future. I am not sure if many Senators have cash in their pocket or use cards. As the Commissioner for financial services, I want to insist that people have the choice and the euro is fit for the digital era if and when cash is less used. It is a complex topic and the Houses of the Oireachtas need to debate all of those topics so that people are with us.

I salute the comments of Senators around Ukraine. I spoke briefly to the Ukrainian ambassador this morning. Your heart would go out to Ukrainians for what they are going through. It is also the reality of life that other stories take over. We cannot forget what is happening in Ukraine, how close the country is to our borders and how we have shown solidarity, which is the right thing to do. It is no less than what we could do.

On the issue of investment, we have the corporate sustainability report and directive. I do not underestimate the challenge for companies, particularly smaller companies. We are insisting it is mandatory for larger companies but smaller companies will have a less onerous standard with which to comply. The direction of travel is very clear.

When I studied accounting and finance, it was about return on investment and figures. It was about adding up, multiplying and percentages. Today and in the future, we will make judgments about companies not just based on return on investment but also their action on sustainability. Investors will want to invest in future-proofed areas so that their money is not wasted, as was mentioned. In order for us to have that information, we need companies to start reporting. It is a big change and challenge but it is the only way forward.

On the challenges in terms of the wider environmental climate, one would be very heartened in schools because they are doing it. The young in schools, helped by the teachers who lead them and principals who encourage them, will educate parents and grandparents in the ways of the future. That gives me the greatest hope. Senator Clonan said we live between hope and fear. As I looked at the tiny beautiful faces of children yesterday in school, I hoped they will have hope rather than face fear. Their future depends on all of us.

Despite our disagreements, whatever they are, we have to work to get over them in order to build a society not just in Ireland, but right across Europe, that values human beings for what they are, invests in a way which makes us all more comfortable because we are not destroying the environment and where there will be really good jobs. We should not underestimate the challenge of the transition. I thank the House for the opportunity for this debate.

I thank the Commissioner for attending and addressing a wide range of topics. The early 1970s saw significant changes in Ireland - the change from feet to metres, decimalisation and joining the Common Market. Regarding decimalisation, my father was an assistant bank manager in Abbeyfeale and used to have to go out to places like Brosna and Knocknagoshel. When he was explaining decimalisation to the communities, they told him that it might take on in Dublin but it would never take on in Kerry.

One of the issues that has been raised by colleagues is that of the ethics of Europe. We seem to be allowing European countries, companies and organisations to outsource manufacturing without bringing our standards to the companies that are manufacturing those clothes and other goods. By not insisting on ethical standards in working conditions for girls, women and men in India and Bangladesh, we are by default imposing and allowing 18th century working conditions. We need to insist on the highest environmental standards. We might claim we have the highest standards, but we are actually outsourcing and allowing companies to move jobs abroad while lessening standards, leading to horrific working conditions for women and young girls in some places. Regarding refugees, I was in Rome when the EU decided to close Operation Mare Nostrum. We left the rescue of people on our borders, regardless of how far away those borders were, to what were basically paramilitaries and dictatorships. In congratulating ourselves on being members for 50 years, we need to insist that Europe ensures it protects not only people within Europe, but also the most vulnerable who are supplying goods to Europe. We can use our economic power to do that.

The Commissioner's attendance is a great occasion on the 50th anniversary of Ireland's membership of the EU. The EU has been described as the longest running peace process in the world. It continues to evolve and face challenges, and we continue to try harder and fail better, to paraphrase Beckett. We saw that with Yugoslavia and are seeing it now along our borders with Ukraine and Russia. Could we be doing more? Obviously, we could. We must ensure that Ukraine does not fail. If it does, we know someone else will be next. We need to be motivated by the lessons of the run-up to the Second World War.

It is important that we acknowledge the EU's support on the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. There are people alive in Ireland today because the EU and the US got involved and because leaderships on all sides were willing to make tough decisions. Peace is not just a moment, but a process. There is ongoing EU support for programmes that need to be put in place for the most disadvantaged communities, including vulnerable kids who are living in disadvantaged areas and are being exploited by paramilitaries. Be they in the suburbs of Paris or the suburbs of Brussels, young kids who are living in economic deprivation are being exploited. Regardless of whether that is by criminals or paramilitaries, the issues are the same and support is equally vital.

This year's theme is peace and unity within Europe. It is important that we celebrate what has happened for Ireland as a result of its membership of the EU. To quote W. B. Yeats, we hope that support continues "Now and in time to be".

I wish everyone a happy Europe Day.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 1.15 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.30 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.15 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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