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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 26 Sep 2023

Vol. 295 No. 14

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, to the House.

Hospital Facilities

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. The national children's hospital is something we all want to see happen and we know its importance, but there continues to be growing concern about the cost and ensuring it is completed. James Reilly, who was the Minister for Health when this deal was originally drawn up and signed, indicated that it would cost €650 million. Planning was secured at the St. James's site in 2016, and the initial budget, as set out then, was €983 million. By December 2018. the then Minister, Deputy Simon Harris, indicated that the figure would be €1.433 billion and that there could be additional costs. By the end of 2021, Robert Watt, the Secretary General of the Department, said the cost would be higher than €1.7 billion. When I raised this as a Commencement matter in March 2022, the then junior Minister, Deputy Frankie Feighan, indicated that the cost would be €1.73 billion. We were told this July that it was anticipated that the cost of the national children's hospital will finally top €2 billion.

The deal that was signed by James Reilly with BAM seems to be out of control.

People are losing confidence in getting this hospital completed. It certainly will not be completed on budget and it is not being completed on time. The indications I received when previously I raised this as a Commencement matter were that it would be completed towards the end of 2024, and I hope the Minister of State can reassure us that will be the case.

We need to know what the final budget is going to be and what is projected by the Department. I know, for instance, that the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board was concerned that BAM had achieved only 67% of its planned output levels in the past year. This is a significant concern, and the public are growing tired of the fact that every time they hear about the national children's hospital, it is not about the much-needed facilities we are going to have there but, instead, about what seem to be the costs running out of control. It is something on which we need complete clarity.

This all, obviously, began before the time of the Minister of State or the Minister for Health, and when in opposition, the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, raised the fact those controls did not seem to be in place. I am looking for assurances also regarding the much-needed national maternity hospital, another critical facility, co-located at St. Vincent's University Hospital. The tenders are currently out for the construction of the facility, but the public need to know that whatever deal is put in place, we will not see the kinds of cost spirals that we have seen at the national children's hospital. Will the Minister of State outline that what measures have been put in place concerning the national maternity hospital will ensure the debacle of the ongoing rise in costs at the children's hospital will not be repeated?

I thank the Senator for his question. Everybody in both this House and the Dáil is in agreement about the absolute necessity of the national children's hospital and the important role it will play for many young children and their families. I can understand, and hear in his voice, the Senator’s frustration at again raising this issue in the House. He raised it in March 2022 and he is now back with it again.

The new children's hospital project is the largest health capital project in the history of the State. It will transform the delivery of paediatric healthcare. It comprises the main hospitals at St. James's Hospital campus and two satellite facilities in Blanchardstown and Tallaght. Both satellite centres are now open, which is important to acknowledge. I am pleased to report that the construction and equipping phase of the main hospital is now approximately 90% complete against the contract value. The capital budget approved by the Government in 2018 is €1.433 billion, within which the contract value for construction is approximately €910 million. This capital budget has not been depleted, with €1.35 billion drawn down to date. There are also wider programme costs relating to the new ICT and electronic health record systems and the costs associated with the integration at the three existing children's hospitals. This brings the total programme's cost budget to €1.73 billion, the figure the Senator quoted. In 2018, there were costs not comprehended within the capital budget and they will need to be addressed, including the impact of the once-in-a-generation increase in construction inflation.

Unfortunately, the project will take longer than we would have hoped, and this too will add to the final cost. I reassure the Senator, however, that everything possible is being done to ensure this important project will be completed as soon and cost-effectively as possible. Definitive updates, or outturn forecasts on the final costs, cannot be provided at this time. Speculation of costs outside of the approved budget when a live contract is in place could adversely affect contractual relationships and, consequently, the project itself. Large healthcare infrastructural projects are difficult and expensive to build. We see this around the world; Ireland and the NCH are not unique in this regard. It is also important to dispel the myth that this is the most expensive hospital in the world; it simply is not. Unlike other hospitals internationally, it has been designed to be as enduring and adaptable as possible for 75 to 100 years, rather than the normal 25- to 30-year span.

Nevertheless, we must acknowledge that the national children's hospital project has had significant challenges.

With challenges come learnings. The updated public spending code requires these learnings to form part of the plan for the relocation of the national maternity hospital to Elm Park. The national maternity hospital project team has had ongoing engagement with the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, NPHDB, to inform the development of the national maternity hospital project. Lessons learned from the NCH have been, and will continue to be, incorporated into the plans for the national maternity hospital.

The business case for the national maternity hospital has also been subjected to the rigours of the updated public spending code. This included two additional independent expert reviews focused on issues such as cost, risk and ability to deliver the projects. The advices and learnings from those reviews have been integrated into the programme for the delivery of the national maternity hospital to mitigate, to the greatest extent possible, the risks and challenges arising in the delivery of major health infrastructure.

In July, the Cabinet approved the pre-tender business case for the new national maternity hospital. The procurement processes for the publication of a call for tenders are now well under way. After the process is complete, and prior to contract award, the updated final business case will be brought to Government for a decision to proceed based on the tender costs.

I thank the Minister of State. I and everyone else appreciate there is construction inflation but we are still talking about a hospital that is costing what, on the face of it, is looking like at least twice what was originally budgeted and we still do not have the final figure. Can the Minister of State assure us that the target for the national children's hospital to be open by the end of 2024 will still be met? Second, can she assure us that when the Government publishes the details of whoever has been awarded the tender for the national maternity hospital and the ballpark figure for the cost of constructing that hospital, the necessary safeguards will be in place as a result of this review to ensure the costs do not spiral out of control in the same way they did for the children's hospital?

I thank Senator Byrne and all the other Senators for their contributions on this matter. I acknowledge that the NCH project has faced extensive challenges. It is an extremely ambitious and complex project. It has faced unanticipated delays and it has been impacted by costs outside of the original budget. However, after months of engagement with the main contractor, BAM, a comprehensive programme for completion was received by the NPHDB on 18 July. The Senator is correct that in the last 12 months BAM only achieved 67% of its planned output and it fell as low as 34% at certain times. That is a concern. The programmes is under review to determine its compliance with the contract. If compliant, we will then have a date for substantial completion, which we will expect the contractor to meet.

It must not be forgotten what this project will ultimately deliver, namely, a world-class hospital that is unprecedented in scale, facilities and technological advancement. The project as a whole is transformational. I know everyone accepts that. It is important to ensure that lessons learned from previous projects inform all further investment decisions. As we move forward through the tender stages of the national maternity hospital project, the Minister is satisfied that we have the correct mechanisms and processes in place to navigate and avoid, as much as we can, many of the challenges faced by the national children's hospital project.

Disability Services

The Minister of State is very welcome. I am holding in my hands the final report of the Joint Committee on Autism, which was launched last June. There are 109 recommendations in the report. The committee met over 15 months, holding 23 public sessions and 32 private sessions. The Minister of State was one of the witnesses at our committee and we met families throughout the country.

One highlighted area is the lack of services and therapies for children in particular. One of the recommendations in the report is that we provide financial supports to families to access assessments and supports privately due to unavailability in the public system until such time as the roles are filled within the children's disability network teams, CDNTs. There are over 800 positions, which are fully funded by the State, unfilled in the various CDNTs due to a lack of professionals being available to work in the system. I know the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science and his Department have done a lot of work in this area and additional places were found for September 2023, both here and in Northern Ireland.

We have seen new post-leaving certificate courses in the ETBs to train speech and language assistants, with over 120 places available. In 2024, we hope there will be scope to have more positions throughout the colleges across the various therapies. However, those people will not be qualified for four years at a minimum. We cannot wait four years. That is the reality. We have over 100,000 children on a waiting list at present. Some 30,000 have been waiting for a year. If we compare the HSE data from May 2022 with May 2023, there are an additional 13,000 children on waiting lists from newborns up to age 17.

As a Government Member, I have done an awful lot of work and am very proud of the work we have done over the last number of years. We have led our economy through Covid back to full employment. However, we have failed tens of thousands of families across the country. I am calling for us to put a national treatment fund in place to help parents and families who have to go privately. I am sure the Minister of State has met numbers of them in her constituency and in her work. I meet them on a regular basis. I was only talking to a lady from a different part of the country last night who has spent thousands getting assessments. People have had to give up work and are struggling.

The committee spoke with Dr. Áine Roddy and Professor Ciarán O'Neill from Atlantic Technological University, ATU, in Sligo, who have done numerous reports working out the costs for a lot of families with regard to having a child with ASD. Their evidence to the committee indicated that of the parents surveyed, 74% stated their autistic child had an unmet service need in the previous 12 months. Of those, 39% stated the reason their child had an unmet service need was that they could not afford to pay for the service privately.

We have funding in place for the positions on the children's disability network teams, CDNTs. We do not have the people to work in those roles. We should access the private therapists who are there. This is what parents are doing at the minute but at a significantly high cost to themselves where they are already in difficult circumstances. There are difficulties even in getting domiciliary care allowance, DCA, for a lot of families. I was looking at a report from a family last night who were turned down. There are people who cannot afford it. We have families giving up jobs. As I said, I am very proud of what the Government has done but I feel this is one area where we have let down thousands of families. One way to deal with this is to put a fund in place in budget 2024 to refund parents who access services from properly-qualified, CORU-registered practitioners.

I thank the Senator for his question. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, has asked me to thank him for raising this important issue for discussion in the House. She had a meeting this morning with one of the disability providers and she did not want to have to change it so I am taking this matter on her behalf. I also compliment the Senator, as Cathaoirleach of the Oireachtas committee, on its great work in respect of autism. It was really important having that specific committee. The Joint Committee on Health does phenomenal work but it has so much to cover. We have had the mental health sub-committee and the Joint Committee on Autism. Both did phenomenal work and I compliment the Senator on that. I was delighted to appear before the committee and I learned a lot that day about children who have complex care needs and who may have mental health issues as well as autism issues.

The Minister of State wishes to be completely clear that the development of any child with a disability to reach his or her full potential is of the utmost importance. Assessments and therapy interventions are vital pieces in the supports that can assist on delivering that potential. The principle and importance of early intervention are recognised by the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. Additionally, the key focus of the HSE has been to develop a strategy for services that is, above all, child and family centred and reflective of best national and international practice.

With specific reference to the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, the NTPF is tasked primarily with reducing waiting times for inpatient or day-case treatment and does not have the statutory remit to arrange or fund any non-hospital services, including assessments of need for children with disabilities. However, the Minister of State recognises the financial challenges for many families in the context of the delays for families seeking to access assessments and therapies for their children. It is for this reason that she allocated over €11.5 million in funding in budget 2023 for the outsourcing of assessments.

The ability of the HSE to outsource assessments can greatly assist the enhancement of the CDNTs by way of ensuring they have time and capacity to conduct therapy interventions rather than solely concentrating on assessments. In addition, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, awaits details on the work of the regional assessment hubs recently established across the country. The hubs are designed to provide a dedicated assessment function and seek to preserve the CDNT so each can continue to delivery therapy services. As a final point, the HSE has developed a tender process for the delivery of assessment of need from private providers. This process has recently been completed and the Minister of State looks forward to its outcome so the next stages of dealing with the waiting times can be progressed.

The Minister of State is fully committed to pursuing every avenue in order to improve access and reduce waiting times for children and families. She is eager to see the benefits arising from the above initiatives. A core benefit is expected to be that public services will be available in a timely manner. Like the Senator, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and I are greatly concerned about the waiting lists for children with autism and I hope the HSE, having developed a tender process for the delivery of assessment of need from private providers, will help target that waiting list. When one is a parent of a child and does not have the funds to go private one will possibly be waiting a long time to get the support requested and it can be very difficult. I welcome this and look forward to hearing more from the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, on it.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, for the phenomenal work she has done. Much work has been done to make changes, but these changes are not going to happen for possibly a number of years. In the meantime, we still have kids waiting over 12 months for assessment. Parents are getting private assessments themselves to get the early intervention that is needed. It states here the NTPF does not have the statutory remit, but we are in the Oireachtas that makes those changes and we can make that change if we want to. The supports here are of a higher need than a lot of things that are in the NTPF and that is extremely important. It is not a reason for not using it. It is there and there is a process and administration there. This could be administered very easily if an allocation of funding was put into it. As I said, it would only apply where somebody is on a waiting list, is not able to get the service and is going to a properly CORU-registered person. The system is there within the NTPF to do it. We make the laws here and we can change the laws and the remit of the fund to make it happen.

I thank the Senator for that. The NTPF is tasked primarily with reducing waiting times for inpatient day-case treatment. As part of my role as the Minister of State at the Department of Health with responsibility for mental health and older people, we looked at this specifically in relation to mental health to see whether it could work for us. What we are learning is it would be very cumbersome to try to work it out. It works really well for somebody who is waiting 11 months to have his or her hip done. That person goes under the NTPF and the hip is done. It is in and out and more than likely people will be well looked after and will have a good recovery. It works really well for cataracts and things like that. We looked at it specifically with respect to children waiting for access to the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, and to primary care psychology to see whether it would work for us. The challenges are that no one case is the same, whereas with a cataract or other eye operation it is quite different. No one case is the same and we would not know whether we would be asking for eight, ten or 12 appointments. I am sure there are always ways around it. We explored it in my unit to see whether we could make it work for us. The avenue we went down instead was to secure funding from the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, to have targeted waiting list initiatives. We now have six CHOs across the country with waiting list initiatives for CAMHS and we also did it in primary care psychology, because we found that by the time we would have this over the line it was difficult.

I will bring the Senator's thoughts on this back to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. We always have to try to think outside the box to see what we can do.

I thank the Senator and the Minister of State. She is going for the hat-trick and remaining with us. Senator McGreehan is next.

Youth Work Supports

I welcome the Minister of State to the Seanad. What I raise today is a passion for youth work and clubs, and it is something I am interested in. I volunteer at Cooley Youth Club, and I am looking forward to that starting up in the coming weeks. I have learned about funding from engaging with Youth Work Ireland and with Caroline Flanagan, who does incredible work in Dundalk and all around County Louth. It is about getting dedicated and earmarked funding for youth work and youth workers. We need to celebrate that as a career and profession and we need to see how that should be rolled out in a more frameworked manner.

My Commencement matter is fairly open and it is about youth clubs but I want to dig down into it. We look at a gap in youth workers and of youth clubs and we see the opportunity that is lost when we have that gap. We are lucky that we have a youth club in our area but for many years we did not have one and then it was volunteer-led. There is no UBU worker to go out to us and support us as volunteers in our local community who are trying to support our young people. That means there is a gap in skills and expertise. I am asking for a real and dedicated fund for youth workers. We must look at the needs and gaps. We have the up-to-date population data and we can see where the volunteer youth clubs are where the youth cafés are popping up. We can also see where the UBU youth cafés are. We know where they are but we also know and see where the gaps are.

I was speaking to Caroline Flanagan in Dundalk recently. When I spoke to her this morning she said that she was glad that I was highlighting this. One thing she wanted me to highlight is that it is not a down on the youth work sector; it is an up. It is doing incredible work and she wanted me to highlight the incredible work it is doing, including its fundraising. However, the sector is spending an awful lot of time chasing grant applications and funding, and then providing a project base. When that project and funding are over, those children are left out on a limb. I saw it in Carlingford with Erin Finnegan. She worked day and night for children as a detached youth worker. She walked around the streets to pick up kids, bring them in and feed them pizza of an evening. That project and its funding ended and then we had a gap. Community workers are opening up a brand new facility in the Foy Centre in Carlingford but it requires volunteers as there is no funding for it. They are afraid they will not be able to open the doors next year as a result. They have a beautiful facility and there is a huge young population in Carlingford, and that is only one place. It is the same in Dundalk, Ardee and Dunleer. There is nothing set up in Dunleer, although Drogheda has more resources. All around County Louth we need these wee hubs. In rural areas there are huge gaps, right across the country. I know that for a fact.

I ask that every county would have a dedicated youth work officer who would go around and support and increase the youth clubs around the country. They would make sure we have safe spaces and activities. Volunteers like myself are standing there talking to young people but I am not a bouncer. I want to be able to support them, to know what is best to do, to have those activities, to celebrate the young people and to encourage them to do positive things in their communities. We need multi-annual support and a dedicated worker to be able to do that.

I thank the Senator for raising this important matter. Like the Senator, I am a great fan of youth clubs and organisations. They provide young people with a chance to develop and grow, particularly in self-confidence and empathy. They give young people an opportunity to succeed on their own merits and they provide supports for all young people, particularly for those who are disadvantaged. Especially from my brief, for those who might suffer from anxiety or emotional distress, they are fantastic.

As Members are aware, budget 2024 is being finalised by Government and Members will appreciate that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on any specific details of future investment until the budget announcement. I did not mention it at the start but I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, who is at a Cabinet meeting. That said, the Government provides significant funding to support the delivery of a range of youth work programmes and services.

In 2023, this funding exceeded €75 million in current and capital funding.

During the time in office of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, there has been a significant increase in the level of investment for the youth sector. From 2021 to 2023, current funding for youth services and programmes increased from €61.7 million to €72.9 million – an 18% increase overall. The majority of the funding goes to UBU Your Place Your Space, as the Senator referred to, a youth service funding scheme that targets disadvantaged, marginalised and vulnerable young people. The national allocation for UBU is more than €46 million for this.

UBU was launched in 2021, with funding provided for 260 youth services that are administered on a local level by the national network of education and training boards, ETBs. ETBs carry out area needs assessments to enable them to prioritise the youth services most needed in their operational area. These services are provided by third-party organisations with expertise in designing and delivering youth services. These organisations are predominantly charities and provide an essential service to these young people and their communities. These organisations provide youth work services for traditional youth clubs to outreach services to disengaged young people and online services for young people who are unable to access the premises in person.

I also wish to talk about the volunteers. I note the Senator said she is a volunteer. I give a big bualadh bos to the volunteers who give an awful lot of their time to support young people in these youth centres. I always ask where we would be as a society without the spirit of volunteerism that we see the length and breadth of the country.

UBU funding has increased year on year since its introduction, which has created 16 new services and allowed smaller organisations to increase their staffing levels.

The Minister's Department also provides funding to universal youth services, which are open to all young people. Funding of more than €13 million was made available in 2023 to the 30 national youth organisations through the youth services grant scheme. The services of these youth organisations are predominantly delivered by volunteers, which I just spoke about, and encourage their young members to take part in a wide range of activities, including scouting, drama and music.

Universal youth services are also provided by the local volunteer lead youth clubs, which are supported by the local youth club grant scheme. This scheme supports 1,400 clubs nationwide, with a budget of €2.5 million.

We are also aware that young people face a mass of information and misinformation online. To help young people to access accurate and reliable information about the issues that matter to them, the Department provides funding of just over €1.5 million to youth information centres nationally. The purpose of these centres staffed by youth workers is to provide young people with access to accurate information on rights, opportunities, benefits, health and welfare.

I cannot disagree with anything the Minister of State said in her speech. I want to highlight that there is a level of bureaucracy that comes from the ETB and someone has to be picked to deal with this.

I want a national framework for clarity. Each ETB deals with things differently. I know it is a localised base, but really the people on the ground know. There is not a uniformity across the country. There has to be a flexibility within that but there is no uniformity across the country. Each youth work organisation deals with different things in different ways and it can be very difficult.

The fact is that those UBUs are only in small areas; they are not everywhere. Prevention is far cheaper and better than cure. We should start looking at the youth work officers, many of whom have not had an increment in about ten years – I must throw that in. Youth work is a very valuable career and important profession in the framework of society.

I ask for a dedicated youth work officer who will go around supporting youth clubs and young people.

As the Senator said, the benefits to young people of engagement with youth clubs and youth work are many, from making friends and trying new activities to meeting a youth worker or volunteer - the one good adult - who can make a huge difference in a young person’s life. Youth workers support young people to stay in school, engage in pro-social behaviour and become contributing members of their communities.

Officials in the Minister’s Department are currently reviewing the delivery of youth services and are developing a new youth service action plan.

The action plan will give strategic direction to improving young people's access to quality youth service and spaces over the next five years. The development of the action plan has featured intensive consultation with the youth sector and young people. The action plan is scheduled to be completed in the first quarter of 2024. As I said, the Government remains committed to supporting this important sector, which has enormous value for the many young people involved and to society as a whole.

School Transport

The Minister of State is more than welcome to the Chamber. I advocate on behalf of nearly 65 students living in my area who feel abandoned by the State regarding school transportation. They come from places such as Riverstick, Belgooly, Minane Bridge, Ballinhassig, Dunderrow, Ardfield, Peddler's Cross, Aghyohil, Castletown Kinneigh and Bandon. They are all at a crossroads waiting to know whether a school bus will turn up, which it will not. They feel very frustrated that they have been in this predicament year on year. Some have qualified for the bus one year but have then been taken off it and vice versa. It has been changed continuously.

We have heard about the 132,000 people who are getting school transportation. When people in my area hear that figure, it drives them daft altogether to think they are being left behind. We have managed to cater for 132,000 but we still have no places for these children. Their parents are hard-working people. They are looking for the opportunity to live their daily lives, educate their children and work to maintain their houses and what they are doing regarding their standard of living. It is deeply frustrating that the majority of these families believe they are entitled to school transport because of the initiative brought forward by the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, in September 2021, when she introduced the temporary alleviation measures. We need clarity on those measures. There are students who qualify under that. They are within the appropriate time and distance, they attend the second nearest school, they pay on time, and they have gone through the process. However, because they are on the temporary alleviation measures list, some will get transport and some will not. In Ballinhassig, nine students got it while the rest did not qualify. Five students in Ardfield qualified, but were told it was not a sufficient number.

I read the criteria inside out and outside in. Nowhere has it come up that a figure for the temporary alleviation measures is required. We have never come up with that figure yet Bus Éireann stated that five students is not good enough. Three students at Laragh National School are in the same situation. There are two students at Peddler's Cross and four at Minane Bridge, who all qualify and are perfect for that measure the Minister announced, but they will not get the bus. I have written to the Minister, the Department and everyone. Nobody will tell me the figure. Nobody will come back and tell me where the figure is in respect of this measure.

We need clarity for these families who feel totally abandoned. A little latitude has to be put in place. A family based in Kinsale, and you could not make this up, are 4.77 km away from the school. They need to be 4.8 km. If the bus parks where the bus park is located at the school they are over 4.8 km, but Bus Éireann will not allow it to park there. You could not make it up. The family has appealed it and will win it on appeal. I looked up the planning permission for the school; buses must park at the bus stop and not outside the entrance, but for some reason Bus Éireann has a different view from Cork County Council regarding the planning of the school. They are another family left by the State.

This is a huge issue, and I am not getting political; it really is. Families are trying to live their lives and they cannot because we do not get clarity around issues regarding temporary alleviation measures and how Bus Éireann is conducting its patrols with regard to issues about the length of roads. It is not working at the moment.

I appreciate that the Minister is in Cabinet this morning and I really appreciate the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, coming to the House today but this is the biggest issue in my part of the world. Families feel abandoned and we need to get clarity on loads of issues regarding school transportation.

The Minister, Deputy Foley, is not able to attend but I am in the Department with her. I thank Senator Lombard for raising this issue, which I accept is an issue around the country. Before I address the specific issues raised, I wish to provide an outline on the extent of the transport scheme, notwithstanding what the Senator said. The school transport scheme is a significant operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department. More than 149,000 children, including 18,000 with special needs, were transported on a daily basis last year. More than 5,400 children who arrived from Ukraine to Ireland were provided with services.

The cost of the scheme was €338.9 million last year. The school transport scheme is very important. We acknowledge that. The purpose of the scheme is to have regard to resources to support transport to and from schools for children who reside remote from the nearest school. There has been an increase in both applications and tickets issued this year in comparison to last year. We had a 12% increase on the number of tickets this year over last year. With regard to special education needs transport services, more than 5,000 new applications have been received and 1,400 of these have been received since July alone. This compares to 3,670 new applications this time last year.

As the Senator is aware, a review of the school transport scheme is nearing completion. The review is being conducted with a view to examining the current scheme and its broader effectiveness and sustainability and to ensure it services students and their families adequately. The final review will include recommendations. Once approved by the Government, it is planned that the review will be published.

Bus Éireann has confirmed that no services were cancelled this year. However, it has been reported that there are particular issues with the resource availability of drivers and contractors and that a number of contractors continue to hand back contracts or, in some cases, there have been zero bids for contracts. This is against a backdrop of significant shortages of drivers in the labour market overall and competing demands for drivers to deliver additional public transport initiatives such as Connecting Ireland, BusConnects and Local Links. Indeed, in my area we have had some similar issues with school transport and with public transport in terms of the shortage of drivers. Bus Éireann, though, is continuing to prioritise the sourcing of vehicles and drivers. However, it has confirmed that as of 22 September, a number of routes remain without a service, which is about 1.25% of pupils and less than 2% of vehicles - that is too many, but that is the figure - with services being provided for close to 99% of pupils on a daily basis. The number of children with special educational needs affected is estimated at approximately 0.75% of pupils. They are particularly difficult cases, however, because in many cases those children need to travel significant distances. I know that because, again, I have had similar issues in my own area so I can certainly empathise with much of what the Senator is saying.

Some services are expected to resume as soon as an escort has been sourced and we are working with schools to ensure these resources are put in place as a priority. Bus Éireann has apologised for any inconvenience caused by the disruption and is trying to rectify the situation at pace. Bus Éireann continues to engage directly with families affected with regular communications updating them on the position of the transport service. The Department has established an exceptional no-service interim grant to help with the cost of private transport arrangements families may have to put in place. The Department has contacted families directly about this.

I thank Senator Lombard for raising this issue and for the opportunity to update him on the school transport scheme. It is regrettable that a number of contractors have handed back contracts at short notice. Bus Éireann, though, is prioritising the establishment of new services for the families affected. Bus Éireann continues to engage with families directly affected and will and should update them again this week. I mentioned already the exceptional interim grant that is available. I will happily answer other questions.

I thank the Minister of State. The Senator has one minute for a supplementary question.

I will be brief. With regard to the temporary alleviation measures, Bus Éireann is breaking the Department's rules or else the rules have not been made clear.

We do not know where that figure is and when concessionary is then tied into it a complete confusion is made of the argument. The temporary alleviation measures granted to some students is not being granted to others because of the capacity issues on buses and Bus Éireann is walking away from the problem, as far as I can see. We need to find out the Minister's view about the measure that she brought forward. Is it one child who qualifies or are there five or are there 55? We do not know. Nine children qualify in Ballinhassig while five do not qualify in west Cork. Why is that? I am not trying to be argumentative but I do not have the answer. What I do know is that families feel they have been abandoned.

Regarding the lack of drivers, we know the issue. People over 70 years of age are banned from driving buses by Bus Éireann. However, in the case of a private operator taking a run from one pitch to another and then to the school, the driver can be 75 years old. That is nuts. Bus Éireann can solve this issue. We need to have a root and branch review of how Bus Éireann is running the service that has been put together by the Minister. I believe her measures are not being enacted. What the Minister proposed was helpful but I do not think it is being brought forward on the ground.

On the issue of the minimum number of pupils required for service, I will get the Department to contact the Senator directly with the exact answer. As I understand it, there was always a minimum number. I think it is seven but that applies to all services, as I understand it. I will get that confirmed in writing. That minimum has always been in place for school bus services. Even without temporary alleviation schemes, if there are only four kids in an area, that is definitely in the rules. Let me get the Department to clarify that in writing because I do not have the information here. I know the Senator is talking about the temporary alleviation measures, not just the general scheme. I will take up the specific issues the Senator has raised with the Minister. I am full of empathy for the families affected. I urge Bus Éireann to keep in touch with families and work at a fast pace to make sure these services are restored because they are essential for families and children around the country.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 1.47 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.47 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
Deputy Thomas Byrne: On the issue of the minimum number of pupils required for service I will get the Department to contact the Senator directly with the exact answer but as I understand it there always was a minimum number. I think it is seven but that applies to all services, as I understand it. I will get that confirmed in writing. That has been there forever on school bus services. Even without temporary alleviation schemes, if there were only have four kids in an area, that is definitely the route would look let me let me let me get into bands that have sort of clarified and in writing that they don't have it directly here and I know that you're struggling with the temporary alleviation measures as well, not just in the general scheme. But I'll certainly take off the specific issues that you've raised here today with the Minister, I certainly am full of empathy for the families affected. And I always call Sarah, to keep in touch with families and to work fast pace to make sure that these services are restored because this is absolutely essential for funding for children around the country. Thank
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