Skip to main content
Normal View

SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 9 Feb 2010

Multilateral Carbon Credit Fund: Motion.

The select committee has been convened for the purpose of considering the following motion referred to it by order of the Dáil of 28 January:

That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the AAU Authorisation Agreement (Green Carbon Fund) between Ireland and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development on Ireland's participation in the Multilateral Carbon Credit Fund (Green Carbon Fund), copies of which were laid before Dáil Éireann on 28 January 2010.

I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, and his officials to assist us in our consideration of the proposal. I thank the Department for providing in advance briefing material which has been circulated to members.

I thank the Chairman and the committee for accommodating a debate on this motion so quickly.

I am seeking the approval of Dáil Éireann to the terms of an authorisation agreement between Ireland and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. The proposed agreement will enable completion of a bilateral emissions trading deal with Poland under the bank's multilateral carbon credit fund. Dáil approval for the bilateral deal with Poland was received in 2006 but the possible need for an authorisation agreement with the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development was not envisaged at the time. It is this additional step in the purchasing process that has given rise to the need to revert to Dáil Éireann for further approval.

On foot of a €20 million investment in the multilateral carbon credit fund operated by the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, in conjunction with the European Investment Bank, Ireland is at an advanced stage of completing a deal to acquire carbon units from Poland. The bilateral deal is being completed in accordance with the international emissions trading mechanism provided for in Article 17 of the Kyoto Protocol and the acquired units will be used for the purposes of compliance with the protocol in the commitment period 2008-12.

Before going any further, it is important to recall the national policy objective of meeting our targets for the purposes of the Kyoto Protocol through domestic measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, supplemented as necessary by the purchase of carbon units on the international market. A carbon purchasing programme is not a substitute for domestic action. An over-emphasis on purchased units for compliance purposes in the longer term would undermine the fundamental objective of an early and effective transition to a low-carbon future.

In my carbon budget statement in 2008 I told the House that an approach to Kyoto Protocol compliance based on over-reliance on purchased carbon units would be a millstone which would hold back our economic development and deny us the advantages which would flow from early mover adoption of efficient technology in transport, energy production, agriculture and our homes and workplaces. To sum up on this point, I see Ireland's use of carbon units as a necessary and prudent short-term measure to ensure compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, while domestic measures to underpin transition to a low carbon economy are being developed and given full operational effect.

Government policy on the use of purchased carbon units to supplement domestic emission reductions is set out in the national climate change strategy published in April 2007. The institutional arrangements for purchasing carbon units are set out in Annex 3 to the strategy. Although our investment in the multilateral carbon credit fund, the subject of this debate, pre-dated publication of the national climate change strategy, it anticipated and is in line with the purchasing framework in Annex 3. The decision to invest in the multilateral carbon credit fund arose from the process, in 2006, of obtaining approval from the European Commission for Ireland's second national allocation plan which provides the basis for allocation by the EPA of emissions trading allowances to the Irish installations participating in the EU emissions trading scheme in the current trading period 2008-12.

In considering the proposed plan submitted by the EPA in 2006 the European Commission had concerns about the fact that, while Ireland had signalled its intention to use purchased carbon units to supplement domestic action to ensure compliance for Kyoto Protocol purposes, there was no evidence of actual purchases or arrangements to purchase. Naturally, in looking at the allocation to the sector of the economy covered by the emissions trading scheme, the Commission needed to take a view on the proposed allocation plan in the broader context of overall national policy and compliance with Kyoto Protocol commitments.

The sum of our efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions on foot of the cap placed on installations participating in the trading scheme, through policies and measures in other sectors of the economy and the use of purchased carbon units, had to add up to national compliance. Assuring the European Commission on our commitment to compliance through action on all three elements of national policy was key to securing a fair allocation of trading allowances for our installations covered by the EU trading scheme. Failure to secure that fair allocation would have put the Irish companies concerned at a competitive disadvantage in the five-year period 2008-12.

It was in this context that the Government brought forward initiation of the planned purchasing programme and invested in the multilateral carbon credit fund operated by the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development and two carbon funds operated by the World Bank. Elimination of the concerns that existed regarding our commitment to act on the supplementary element of our policy approach to compliance enabled the Commission to approve the proposed plan without imposing a significant adjustment in the proposed allocation to Irish trading companies in lieu of an operationalised national purchasing programme.

In November 2006, the Dáil debated and adopted a motion approving a total investment of €20 million in the multilateral carbon credit fund by way of a contribution agreement with the bank. On the same date, 30 November 2006, the Attorney General's office provided a legal opinion to the bank on the contribution agreement to the effect that all constitutional requirements and legislative provisions were in place for the investment and for an agreement to be signed. The agreement with the bank was finalised in December 2006.

When the investment has already been approved by the Dáil for the purposes of Article 29 of the Constitution, members are possibly wondering why I am now tabling a further motion on the same investment. The reason relates to a change in the handling of the investment and I will come back to this point later in my statement.

Funding the investment in the multilateral carbon credit fund was provided for in a once-off provision of €20 million in the Vote of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in 2006.

There are two distinct elements to the multilateral carbon credit fund. The first is a project-based element in which we have invested €5 million. This element of the fund supports projects eligible under either the Kyoto Protocol joint implementation mechanism or the clean development mechanism.

The second element of the fund, in which we have invested €15 million and which is the subject of this motion, was reserved for sovereign parties to the Kyoto Protocol. It was not open to private entities, such as firms participating in the EU emissions trading scheme. The other sovereign party that invested in this element of the fund was Spain.

This element of the multilateral carbon credit fund reserved for sovereign parties is known as the green carbon fund. The proceeds of country-to-country trading of Kyoto Protocol allowances are used to finance climate friendly projects, known as green investment schemes, in the selling country. In the case of the green carbon fund, the selling country is Poland and, as I said at the outset, our bilateral arrangements are at an advanced stage. The bilateral arrangements between Spain and Poland are at a similar advanced stage.

Management of Ireland's investment in both elements of the multilateral carbon credit fund is a matter for my Department, and I am satisfied that the proceeds of these funds are directed towards good, environmentally-sound projects that will deliver verified emission reductions. We have not, and we will not, avail of international emissions trading under Article 17 of the Kyoto Protocol to engage in the purchase of carbon allowances which are not linked to green investment schemes in the selling country. In other words, we have not and we will not buy "hot air".

In December 2008, I signed a non-binding letter of intent with my Polish counterpart which addressed future transactions in Kyoto Protocol allowances, and mutual co-operation to achieve the objectives of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change through international emissions trading by way of a green investment scheme. This was an important step in terms of confirming the commitment of both parties to the Kyoto Protocol and to verification of emission reductions through agreement on an agreed green investment scheme.

Since that development, negotiations involving my Department, the relevant authorities in Poland, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, and European Investment Bank have taken place with the objective of reaching agreement on Ireland's €15 million investment in the green carbon fund element of the multilateral carbon credit fund. The aim of these negotiations was to finalise a green investment scheme in Poland and the overall terms of the agreement. As the other sovereign party in the green carbon fund, Spain, and Poland progressed their bilateral arrangements along similar lines, the final negotiations involved all three parties. I am pleased that the negotiations have been successfully concluded and we are now in a position to finalise a mutually beneficial deal with Poland.

The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has facilitated the deal from the outset and was not expected to be involved other than in a facilitative role. However, the terms worked out in the negotiations over the last year require the bank to make the purchases from Poland on behalf of both Ireland and Spain. For this to happen, the bank requires a formal authorisation agreement to allow it to act on Ireland's behalf and to utilise our €15 million investment to pay for the Polish allowances which we will receive.

Following examination of the documentation by the Attorney General's office, I am advised that the proposed authorisation agreement with the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development constitutes an international agreement for the purpose of Article 29 of the Constitution and Ireland cannot be bound by it without prior Dáil approval. Therefore, notwithstanding approval by Dáil Éireann for the 2006 investment in the multilateral carbon credit fund, this additional step in the purchasing process gives rise to the need for further Dáil approval in order to complete the transaction.

I am now seeking the approval of the Dáil, by way of a motion for the purposes of Article 29 of the Constitution, to the terms of an authorisation agreement between Ireland and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. This proposed agreement will allow completion of a mutually beneficial deal which Ireland has pursued with Poland for over three years and which has been successfully concluded. I commend the motion as an important contribution to Ireland's commitment to address global climate change and our responsibilities under the Kyoto Protocol.

While I appreciate this must be done, €15 million is leaving our economy and going into the Polish economy. In Poland there will be green jobs and a reduction in emissions because of this whereas we will not have anything to show for it. We must do more to reduce our emissions. Why should we not be the ones selling the green investments? That is the way forward. Are these carbon units for emission reductions over and above the reductions through emissions trading?

The Minister recently stated in an answer to a parliamentary question that it might not be as necessary to buy as many carbon credits as originally contemplated because the recession led to a drop in emissions. Is the €15 million going to be spent anyway? Is there any flexibility?

In paragraph 5, the Minister talked about an over-reliance on purchased carbon credits, and outlined the advantages related to reductions in agriculture and energy and the transition to a low carbon economy, but €15 million is leaving the State and going elsewhere. The Minister announced a bio-energy scheme in 2009. There are farmers who are fully compliant, whose crops I have seen, who have received letters stating payments are being deferred until late 2010 as the crop is not deemed to have reached satisfactory levels of establishment. This flies in the face of the proposals and I would like the Minister to take that on board. The obstacles that discourage people from taking part in the bio-energy scheme must be removed. One arm of the Government is saying go ahead while another says those who do go ahead will not get a grant. I have received several letters from constituents who entered the scheme. The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is putting these obstacles in place, not the Minister's Department. As the Minister mentioned agriculture, I would like to flag this at today's meeting.

In 2006, the Dáil debated this issue and adopted a motion approving the total investment of €20 million in the carbon credit fund by way of a contribution agreement with the bank. We debated the matter then and we should not open the debate on it again. I formally propose the motion, if that is in order, Chairman.

The Deputy did so at the commencement.

Is that sufficient?

Yes, that is sufficient, once the Deputy did so at the commencement.

I second the motion. We had a meeting here some time ago and I do not believe we are currently getting any carbon credits for forestry. When will carbon credits kick in for the forestry currently being grown in Ireland?

I thank the Deputies for their questions, which I will answer. The answer to Deputy Tuffy's first question is "Yes".

On the question of the flexibility mechanism, even former US Vice President, Al Gore, recognises that if CO2 emissions are reduced elsewhere, that is something that is worthy of consideration because it is reducing the net amount of CO2 emissions. However, I have always made the point that we must concentrate on domestic action in the first instance. If we consider the new energy efficiency schemes for new homes going up to 60% this year — the figure was 40% previously — moving to carbon neutrality, the reform of the motor taxation and VRT systems — a total of 85% of new cars — and now with the scrappage scheme going higher because it applies to the A and B bands, these have all been very successful. There is also the insulation scheme for housing, the new energy retrofitting scheme for local authority homes and so on. I could go on about renewable energy, etc., but we are ensuring that we make domestic cuts as well.

The Deputy asked how far off the target are we in regard to meeting our commitments under the Kyoto Protocol. In the national climate change strategy we signalled the possibility of supplementing our reductions with the purchase of approximately 3.6 million credits on average each year in the five year Kyoto Protocol period. That would have amounted to approximately 18 million units in total. The Deputy is right in pointing out that the economic downturn has implications for the purchasing programme. The most recent EPA emission projections from March 2009 suggest that with full implementation of all announced emission reduction measures, the purchase requirement for carbon units has now dropped to between 1.3 million and 1.8 million units per annum over the 2008 to 2012 period or, roughly speaking, 6.5 million to about 9 million. That comes with a health warning. A definitive judgment in this area must be informed by future analysis by the EPA.

The next question was from Deputy Bannon. The bioenergy scheme to which he referred does not come under the remit of my Department but I will ask the relevant Departments — the Departments of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries and Communications, Energy and Natural Resources — to come back with a definitive answer. I am happy to look at that.

I thank Deputy Fitzpatrick for proposing the motion. Deputy Scanlon referred to the issue of forestry. This is a key issue particularly in the follow-up to the Kyoto Protocol because, as members will be aware, the Copenhagen summit was not as successful as we would have wished. It was probably more of a disappointment than I had anticipated when I spoke here at the committee. A key of that is taking account of forests as carbons sinks. Given what has happened we are left in limbo because that whole area has not been resolved. We want to resolve it because we think we have a real opportunity in terms of reforestation and doing it properly as there are complications involved in how one calculates the amount of sequestration of carbon and the emissions caused by felling. These are issues that were supposed to be negotiated and agreed upon but it appears we will have to wait another year or so until we get to Mexico to reach agreement on that.

At all of these negotiations we have representatives. There is a very broad team from Government including representatives from the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food who specialise in forestry and are able to do the calculations quickly to see what advantage accrues to this country. It all comes down to how the calculations are done. That is the critical issue.

Is it fair to say we do not get any carbon credit from our forestry at present? Is that correct?

We are waiting until such time as we get that agreement.

Does the agreement mean we will only get credit from the time we reforest?

Yes, post 2012.

Effectively, it is only new forestry.

This is the key issue. Does one have a baseline? Does one go back to a period, such as the Kyoto period or does one start at 2005? None of that has been agreed.

The Minister needs to put less emphasis on the Copenhagen summit and whatever agreements have been reached there. Whatever happens will happen. All that emphasis on targets is remote from what one can do on the ground in regard to reducing carbon emissions. It is not really our problem but we are part of it. Whatever agreements are reached such as the Kyoto Protocol, are irrelevant unless one does the small projects, the practical things on the ground that will reduce emissions, improve our environment and improve people's quality of life.

A couple of people have spoken to me recently who are involved in the private or voluntary sector and wanted to get involved in projects to reduce carbon emissions and which are good for the environment in different ways. They find it is very difficult to get funding. If they make application at local level through the local authority, there are all sorts of restrictions with which they have to comply and it means they cannot apply for other funding. Also it is very difficult for private companies who have projects in mind. I ask the Minister to consider setting up a fund which would be flexible and to which one could make application.

If we are to do what Poland is doing in terms of setting up green schemes, we need to bring forward the people who will do that and we need some source of funding, all of which could be done at Department level. The money that would be saved on the carbon credit purchase could be ringfenced for such schemes. We tend to think too big and talk about things such as a metro west. A metro west was proposed for my constituency but it could end up as a white elephant. The idea came from a huge housing development along the corridor which the metro west would serve as there is no bus route. It will not take people into town which is where most people go at present. I am unsure about metro west. An area into which money could be put, which would be cheaper and less risky, is in the bus service. That is the area in which the Green party should concentrate its investment in transport in our bus service. Why not have subsidised bus routes and parts of the city which one can go to for free? It could also consider projects for schools.

I tabled a parliamentary question a couple of weeks on the insulation and home energy saving scheme, much of the funding for which is still underspent due to the recession. One is depending on individuals to come forward and spend money and get a grant to match funding for their house. The Government should look at things such as establishing a fund to retrofit school buildings and make them more energy efficient. We need to be more creative in finding ways to achieve carbon reductions.

During the boom years of the late 1990s and the first six years of this century the alarm bells were ringing throughout the world. Now, with the downturn in the economy, has the threat of climate change subsided? We were told that dealing with climate change would be the biggest challenge facing us in the 21st century, and it probably is. The downturn in the economy means there is less economic activity now than four or five years ago. Will that impact on the level of carbon emissions?

I agree with much of what Deputy Tuffy said. However, the metro versus bus argument is a very difficult one. Our experience in the city leads us to the conclusion that fixed rail makes a huge contribution and has proven to be even more popular than we could have predicted. Many people said the Luas would not work. I remember that debate very well. People were out with their measuring tapes and saying it would not fit, and so on. People have voted with their feet and the system is over-subscribed. It has been hugely successful. The DART is also enormously successful. Where we have installed fixed rail systems people have used them. This is because they are 100% reliable. One knows when the train or tram will come and they run regularly. All the evidence shows this is what we want from public transport. Can buses be made to operate in that way so that one knows when the next bus will come and there is real time information and a bus corridor? Some bus corridors, such as that on the 46A route, have proven successful but not to the same extent as fixed rail alternatives.

Deputy Bannon made reference to the economy. I thought I dealt with that point when I answered Deputy Tuffy's question. Undoubtedly, the downturn means the level of emissions has dropped. Transport, for example, has declined although not to the extent expected. We expected to have a lower emissions level from transport and we are finding that to be so. However, our calculations are slightly upset. This winter, for example, has been much colder than we expected so the use of domestic heating oil and gas will have risen. Emissions in that area will increase, despite the economic downturn. That is something the EPA also looked at. We are now getting more accurate measurements than ever before. We have invested in that and the EPA has done extremely good work. As a result of that, and as a result of the carbon budget strategy, people can see exactly the sort of progress we are making and where we are not making progress. This is important because it sets a trend which will continue. If Deputy Bannon is in Government in the future he will be using those same mechanisms, and I am glad of that.

More people would be encouraged to use public transport if we developed an oyster card system.

I ask the Minister to look at this issue fairly soon. I have had an oyster card for ten years. I was in London recently for a Longford Association event. I had not been in London for three years but I found I had £15 credit on my card, which took me from Heathrow to the centre of London. I continually use the public transport system in the United Kingdom. We need to develop such a ticketing system in Ireland. It is an incentive to people to use public transport. It is a good idea and should be developed soon.

There are two elements which must be overcome and I believe that will be done in the lifetime of this Government. The first is integrated ticketing and the other is real time information, either on a computer screen at the bus stop or on a mobile phone. We are in a technological age so it should not be beyond the ken of Dublin Bus, or whoever, to develop these.

I see this as a greater priority than the election of a mayor of Dublin.

A mayor for Dublin can be hugely influential. The person will sit on a Dublin transportation authority and will be able to co-ordinate transport. At present, there are too many layers and we need someone to be a transport czar for the city, as Ken Livingstone was and Boris Johnson is in London. That person would be the new mayor. This has been called for by chambers of commerce and others. They see it as an essential component, and so do I. It is not a choice between one and the other. Both go together. If one wants good public transport one must have integrated ticketing and real time information. In a city of Dublin's size one also needs someone to co-ordinate all of that.

The election of a mayor of Dublin will be an experiment. Either it will work or it will not.

It will not be an experiment.

I think it might be. This committee had an interesting visit to Cork last weekend. In UCC, Dr. Aodh Quinlivan gave an interesting presentation on the experience of elected mayors in the United Kingdom and the United States. Sometimes we try to fix things which are not broken. We need to be cautious on this matter.

In speaking about public transport I refer to Metro West. I am not speaking about Luas and I am not familiar with the arguments for and against metro north. The area I represent, and where I live, urgently needs an interconnector between Heuston Station and the city centre. At present, people do not use the Lucan and Clondalkin railway stations because the train only goes to Heuston Station. It is important to build on existing infrastructure.

The Minister did not deal with my suggestion of a fund for the promotion of new green investment ideas, so that we can offer what Poland is now offering us.

The Government is committed to a green innovation fund of approximately €1 billion. Roughly half will come from private investors and half from the Government. That will be a huge stimulus to the green economy. I hope it would include the people, with whom Deputy Tuffy seems to be familiar, who want to make those crucial investments. It will create jobs and reduce carbon emissions. It is a win win idea. There is now an acknowledgment that this is where the country needs to go, as we prepare for the recession to end and the upturn to happen.

This will necessitate a number of things. We must stabilise our public finances and restore lending by banks. That requires difficult political decisions and we have not shirked from those. It also requires a vision for the future of how we can make the crucial investment in the green economy and the smart economy. We are committed to doing that.

We will now conclude the discussion. I thank the Minister and his officials for attending and assisting the committee in its consideration of the proposal.

Is the motion agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed to lay a report of the committee's consideration of the motion before the Houses of the Oireachtas? Agreed.

Top
Share